Black Gay Queer Feminists Want to Eliminate Masculinity

By Ockydub | Posted May 5 2016 | 33 Comments  

wade davis

“Right now the Black gay community is teaching Black gay men how to be better women.”

I made this statement a couple of days ago on Cypher Ave’s message forums page after reading former NFL gay player now Queer activist, Wade Davis’ Ebony article.

I recently scanned his TedTalk posted on Ebony.com where he made some good points BUT what stood out to me was what he stated in the description surrounding the video.

“Growing up, I loved that people saw me as a masculine man. I loved the power, the access, the respect and the perceived safety that masculinity provided me. So in late 2015, when the University of Florida asked me to give a Ted style talk at their 2016 TedX Conference in March, I decided to call it “The Mask of Masculinity.”

As I wrote in my recent essay explaining, why more Black men should be feminists, I wanted to use personal narrative to highlight the big problem with masculinity. Here’s a hint: It’s NOT real.

We raise young boys to wear a mask of toughness in order to be a man, and we rob them of their childhood and their innocence.

Masculinity is a performance and a mask we, men, wear to shield ourselves from pain, and the performance of masculinity never ever means freedom and self-love. It’s time to get free.

Reading his article, viewing the video and understanding the context, I agree; many men wear masks. In conjunction to this, recalling the collective vlogs and articles out there from Black Queer (male and female) Feminist activists; I’m going to double down on my statement that, “right now the Black gay community is teaching Black gay men how to be better women.”

PapasDaySq-heels

For feminist like Wade Davis to say “Masculinity is NOT REAL” and “It’s time to get free of masculinity”, is reprehensible and dangerous. Feminist and black gay queers are now crossing over the threshold and saying masculinity is false and the only way to a fulfilling true authentic self is to erase and free yourself from it. By saying this, queer feminist are saying something is wrong with masculinity.

These statements are disgusting.

Almost everyone wears or has worn masks. This is not something unique to men or masculinity. As the Black gay community continues to align itself with feminists and self-identifying queers, this misguided disingenuous group think will continue to proliferate until their ultimate goal is achieved; the eradication of all things masculine. Except for masculine lesbians and transgender men; for this class masculinity is allowed and empowering.

I’ve been hearing for years that masculine gay or same gender loving men are pretending, faking, self-hating, homosexual internalizing homophobes who are not living in their truths. They’re going about this “gay thing” all wrong.

I’m beyond sick and tired of these mainstream feminist gay queer activists (who dictate and control the narrative) saying that my maleness and existence is wrong. This is no different than the heterosexual community telling me my sexuality is wrong and I’m an unnatural abomination. This is in the same line of thinking that says if I just submit and conform to their way of thinking (adopting their religion, repenting, praying the gay away, get a wife and start a family) that all will be right within my spirit.

The same way I reject and don’t kneel to pray at that heterosexual altar; I will not kneel and pray at the altar of queer feminism. I reject the preaching that my masculinity, pride in maleness and way of life is unnatural because I’m not living within the Queendom of their brand of homosexuality.

Western Feminism will always have its roots with heterosexual white females and the women’s right movement of the early 20 century. Which mean its roots are in heteronormativity.

As I stated in the article Black Gay Coons, many gay men exhibit exaggerated hyper-effemininity because they have been influenced or conditioned by gay culture and media narratives that this is how the male homosexual is to behave or conduct themselves.

Will these self-identifying queers ever tackle and discuss the negative qualities of feminism? Will they ever address the destructive mask wearing everyday performances of exaggerated hyper-effemininity that saturates gay cultures and lifestyles?

PapasDaySq-myth

Dear feminist and queer feminist, there’s a reason you’ll most likely never hear someone say “femininity is a myth” or “it’s not real”…because that would be stupid and insulting to women and naturally effeminate men.

Pro-masculine Cypher Avenue (by extension our podcast) has and will continue to discuss toxic or hyper-masculinity and its negative impacts. I have yet to witness the same type of public scrutiny, critique or any self-retrospection by queer feminist of feminism, even though it’s much needed and past do.

What are they afraid of?

 

 

 

About the Author
Ockydub

Octavius is a founder and editor of Cypher Avenue. He's here to help speak for us and show the world that masculine gay / bisexual men of color are not a part of the stereotypical gay normal that is seen and fed to the masses. No...we are a distinct breed, filled with character and pride. Cypher Avenue is here to show the world how we are different.

   
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33 Comments Feel Free To Join The Cypher.

  1. Kouncelor
    Kouncelor | May 5th, 2016
    +1

    This is an excellent article, and something that I argue to some friends about all the time. There clearly a section of the gay male community that supports all things feminine, female, and womanly and denigrates all things masculine, male, and manly. This movement which falsely aligns male homosexuality with being a woman and spreads that dogma. As opposed to educating folks about being naturally masculine, feminine, or in-between versus some of the extreme learned behaviors. I was reminded of related excellent article on Cypher Avenue that speaks to this issue and the origins and purpose of Cypher Avenue: "Sorry That You’re Tired Of Hearing About Masculinity – NOT!" (Sorry That You’re Tired Of Hearing About Masculinity – NOT!)

  2. alton
    alton | May 5th, 2016
    +1

    "Wa'minute b!!!tch. Whatchu MEEEEAN his statements is disgusting??!! Masculinity IS a mask huney! We ALL started out as women huney, IT's science b!!!tch. Ya'll tops is jus' some closet bottoms byyytch. Ya'll jus' need ta take off them masculine masks and get wit the BeyHive, Hunty! Yassss!!!"

    Sorry for not takin' this article as serious as you probably intended it to be taken @Ockydub . LOL

  3. Tyroc
    Tyroc | May 5th, 2016
    +3

    I think the major problem with his thinking is that for him his authentic self was queer and wanted to be a drag wearing, diva worshiping, smedium wearing out and flowing rainbow pride gay and that's cool but he now thinks and believes that that's the only gay that's real. It's not!

    I personally think the overidealized thought of over sharing every deep and personal thought and everybody being open to feeling and sharing those deep feelings is what's really toxic in society.

    You can be traditionally masculine and have deep sensitive feelings on the inside and that doesn't negate the masculinity in and of itself or make one more authentic over the other, it's just not necessary to wear them tighter than that smedium sweater.

    • J | May 10th, 2016
      0

      i co-sign this

  4. alton
    alton | May 5th, 2016
    0

    TyrocI think the major problem with his thinking is that for him his authentic self was queer and wanted to be a drag wearing, diva worshiping, smedium wearing out and flowing rainbow pride gay and that's cool but he now thinks and believes that that's the only gay that's real. It's not!

    I personally think the overidealized thought of over sharing every deep and personal thought and everybody being open to feeling and sharing those deep feelings is what's really toxic in society.

    You can be traditionally masculine and have deep sensitive feelings on the inside and that doesn't negate the masculinity in and of itself or make one more authentic over the other, it's just not necessary to wear them tighter than that smedium sweater.

    LMAO!!! Not the "SMedium"

  5. mojoreece
    mojoreece | May 5th, 2016
    0

    Ummm some stuff he said I dont think he explained clearly or should of used other words. One, I think his view point is tainted by his own internal struggle being gay and not being able to be out while he was playing . When he talks about "mask" he really should reference and use the word "Cool pose" instead. He also should of stated how masculinity is a social construction maybe gave examples of how different cultures past and present expressed it in different ways. Im one that believes that the word Feminist should be used for women only; but we can be supportive to them though. Its meant for their own liberation/fight/struggle not for the use of men similar to the word lesbian. I didnt get his "drag" pic example cause he wasn't in full drag (only lip stick and a hand lol) and drag is not meant to be masculine its meant to make fun of both masc and fem smh. Also the whole baggy pants thing; we all wore those clothes cause it was the trend of the time lol (thank GOD its over lol). Should of prob went in more def and explained what it means to be a carefree black boy/man.

  6. alton
    alton | May 5th, 2016
    0

    mojoreeceUmmm some stuff he said I dont think he explained clearly or should of used other words. One, I think his view point is tainted by his own internal struggle being gay and not being able to be out while he was playing . When he talks about "mask" he really should reference and use the word "Cool pose" instead. He also should of stated how masculinity is a social construction maybe gave examples of how different cultures past and present expressed it in different ways. Im one that believes that the word Feminist should be used for women only; but we can be supportive to them though. Its meant for their own liberation/fight/struggle not for the use of men similar to the word lesbian. I didnt get his "drag" pic example cause he wasn't in full drag (only lip stick and a hand lol) and drag is not meant to be masculine its meant to make fun of both masc and fem smh. Also the whole baggy pants thing; we all wore those clothes cause it was the trend of the time lol (thank GOD its over lol). Should of prob went in more def and explained what it means to be a carefree black boy/man.

    "Also the whole baggy pants thing; we all wore those clothes cause it was the trend of the time"

    Dude, I think back on {all of} the sh!t I used to wear 1995-2000 and I'm like WTF. TOTALLY defeated the purpose of havin' a PT/ Gym OD'd military body LMAO!

  7. ControlledXaos
    ControlledXaos | May 5th, 2016
    0

    Why is it so hard for people to understand that gay people are varied? We have enough problems trying to get straight people to see this, let alone gays. All these different subcultures but we are supposed to be the same boa wearing, tighty whitey and tennis shoes wearing, excellent dancing, and ever so stylish blobs of meat.

    These vocal "queers" just want everyone to be gay robots modeled after them.

  8. ColumbusGuy
    ColumbusGuy | May 5th, 2016
    0

    alton"Wa'minute b!!!tch. Whatchu MEEEEAN his statements is disgusting??!! Masculinity IS a mask huney! We ALL started out as women huney, IT's science b!!!tch. Ya'll tops is jus' some closet bottoms byyytch. Ya'll jus' need ta take off them masculine masks and get wit the BeyHive, Hunty! Yassss!!!"

    Sorry for not takin' this article as serious as you probably intended it to be taken @Ockydub . LOL

    LOL!!! :mjlol:

    TyrocI think the major problem with his thinking is that for him his authentic self was queer and wanted to be a drag wearing, diva worshiping, smedium wearing out and flowing rainbow pride gay and that's cool but he now thinks and believes that that's the only gay that's real. It's not!

    I personally think the overidealized thought of over sharing every deep and personal thought and everybody being open to feeling and sharing those deep feelings is what's really toxic in society.

    You can be traditionally masculine and have deep sensitive feelings on the inside and that doesn't negate the masculinity in and of itself or make one more authentic over the other, it's just not necessary to wear them tighter than that smedium sweater.

    Smedium!!! :heh:

    I looked him up and he is wearing a pink plunging neckline v-neck shirt/blouse that is the definition of smedium in how it fits and looks!
    :pachah1:

    Anyway I kind of think this all hits harder on people of color, especially gay black men because it seems things are so polarized(JMHO), that if you are not hypermasculine, then you must be the opposite. I also think that white feminism has a lot to do with establishing what is 'correct' in the overall gay community, but it seems like white gay guys do have a bit more leeway-just like white straight guys can be masculine or somewhat feminine and get away with stuff and not be 'suspect' the way black straight guys are.

    It kind of filters over to white gays-maybe the reason there is not a white equivalent to Cypher Ave. is because the pressure is not there for white gays-they are able to take the feminism-LGBT queer stuff or leave it. As much as I complain, there does seem to be variety allowed to a greater extent for white gays even with the 'White Queer Elite' leading everything. It is hard to explain. Maybe everything is just harder or made harder for black gay men?

    Also maybe the state of straight white guys is part of it-there is such a large variety that seems to be accepted (you could also say the war on masculinity has been more successful?) to the point that feminizing them is not really what is sought-and this kind of spreads over into white gays?

    I really wonder how much of this is a response to the black male hypermasculinity thing, and the response is not to try and reach for something reasonable, but a push to the exact opposite-hyperfemininity.

  9. takeyourmeds91
    takeyourmeds91 | May 5th, 2016
    0

    Excellent piece. To invalidate masculinity would be to invalidate femininity. One is not inherently default over the other; you can't describe one without the other. As you said, the real discussion should be about dispelling hyper-masculinity as well as the other extreme.

  10. Ockydub
    Ockydub | May 5th, 2016
    0

    TyrocI think the major problem with his thinking is that for him his authentic self was queer and wanted to be a drag wearing, diva worshiping, smedium wearing out and flowing rainbow pride gay and that's cool but he now thinks and believes that that's the only gay that's real. It's not!

    I personally think the overidealized thought of over sharing every deep and personal thought and everybody being open to feeling and sharing those deep feelings is what's really toxic in society.

    You can be traditionally masculine and have deep sensitive feelings on the inside and that doesn't negate the masculinity in and of itself or make one more authentic over the other, it's just not necessary to wear them tighter than that smedium sweater.

    100dap

  11. Ockydub
    Ockydub | May 5th, 2016
    0

    ControlledXaosThese vocal "queers" just want everyone to be gay robots modeled after them.

    Yep…FemBots

  12. ColumbusGuy
    ColumbusGuy | May 5th, 2016
    0

    OckydubYep…FemBots

    :dead1::franko1::bronbad::heh::mjlol::sabu::deadmanny:

    Hahahahaha!!! Sometimes I just love these gifs you guys post!

  13. ColumbusGuy
    ColumbusGuy | May 5th, 2016
    0

    TyrocI think the major problem with his thinking is that for him his authentic self was queer and wanted to be a drag wearing, diva worshiping, smedium wearing out and flowing rainbow pride gay and that's cool but he now thinks and believes that that's the only gay that's real. It's not!

    I personally think the overidealized thought of over sharing every deep and personal thought and everybody being open to feeling and sharing those deep feelings is what's really toxic in society.

    You can be traditionally masculine and have deep sensitive feelings on the inside and that doesn't negate the masculinity in and of itself or make one more authentic over the other, it's just not necessary to wear them tighter than that smedium sweater.

    I admit I am too far to the 'share every thought' thing. But at least I am not doing it all over the place like facebook, IG, in public, etc. I have a problem hiding feelings anyway-not matter what I do you can tell how I am feeling just by looking at me. Especially if I am angry-turn beet red. Still(after all these years) working on the 'give it some time and think about it before you open your damn mouth' thing.

    *and Wade Davis is still cute as hell. Just no drag or pink smedium clothes please.

  14. Purple_Is_Wack
    Purple_Is_Wack | May 6th, 2016
    0

    In the 1970's there was an overemphasis on performing masculinity; to use the term coined by Foucault. It was a parody of masculinity where the Marlboro man was the role model of white gay men. I lived in San Francisco in the 70's and I am not sure if the trend replicated itself in NYC. It was a way of proclaiming that we can be both gay and also perform the masculine role. What bothered me was how deliberate it was, almost like another type of costume or "male drag." I tend to find straight masculinity attractive because it is performed so effortlessly. It does not draw attention to itself.

  15. Purple_Is_Wack
    Purple_Is_Wack | May 6th, 2016
    0

    continued. When you reach a certain age you see all these movements as just trends shifting back and forth. Masculinity as an identity has as much chance as being eliminated as America being a Christian state, or white people losing political power even if they quantitatively become a minority. Queens may get the most media attention because….well they are queens, but the queen's bitchiness may just be a compensation for being overlooked as a sexual partner, because Masculinity Rules in ones sexual choice.

  16. SwagJack
    SwagJack | May 6th, 2016
    0

    I'm basing my comments on the video. I get his points about performative masculinity, and he has some good ones. But he's basing them all on his personal experience and projecting that on an entire sex. By his logic, should we completely dismantle femininity too (I'm sure there's a layered conversation with valid points there as well)? I think a more intelligent way of addressing the issue would be to consider that there are folks that just don't fit into the binary of masculine/ feminine and lobby to make space for (versus ostracize) them in society. There are societies that have been doing this for quite a long time with varied results (Native American two-spirit people and Samoan fa'afafine). But it goes without saying that any place where machismo is dominant has less space (read: tolerant) for variations on gender expression. The last two and a half minutes of Wade's video best supports the point he was trying to make, in my opinion. Using examples such as Westbrook, Beckham, and the Smith kids as black folks pushing the boundaries of heteronormativity was smart. It shines a light on the possibilities of what's acceptable/ expected from folks that have a huge platform with perceivably a lot to lose by coloring outside of the lines. But to deduce that everyone who is "performing" masculinity is "wearing a mask" is just bad logic. To this day, I don't like the Bodyguard soundtrack.

  17. Ockydub
    Ockydub | May 7th, 2016
    0

    :salute:

    SwagJack

    I'm basing my comments on the video. I get his points about performative masculinity, and he has some good ones. But he's basing them all on his personal experience and projecting that on an entire sex. By his logic, should we completely dismantle femininity too (I'm sure there's a layered conversation with valid points there as well)? I think a more intelligent way of addressing the issue would be to consider that there are folks that just don't fit into the binary of masculine/ feminine and lobby to make space for (versus ostracize) them in society. There are societies that have been doing this for quite a long time with varied results (Native American two-spirit people and Samoan fa'afafine). But it goes without saying that any place where machismo is dominant has less space (read: tolerant) for variations on gender expression. The last two and a half minutes of Wade's video best supports the point he was trying to make, in my opinion. Using examples such as Westbrook, Beckham, and the Smith kids as black folks pushing the boundaries of heteronormativity was smart. It shines a light on the possibilities of what's acceptable/ expected from folks that have a huge platform with perceivably a lot to lose by coloring outside of the lines. But to deduce that everyone who is "performing" masculinity is "wearing a mask" is just bad logic. To this day, I don't like the Bodyguard soundtrack.

    :babylawd::salute:

  18. FREEDOM TRAIN
    FREEDOM TRAIN | May 7th, 2016
    +1

    PERSONALLY, I DON'T LIKE THE TITLE. MASCULINITY IS GOOD THING IN BOY & MAN. EVEN THO COMING UP FROM A BOY TO A MAN WITH EFFEMINATE WAYS CAN BE ROUGH , EVERY BOY MUST BE TAUGHT AND SHOWN STRENGTH ALONG WITH INTELLIGENCE AND SMARTS. THROW IN STRONG SPIRITUAL TALK AS WELL. SOME OF THE SHARPEST, PROGESSIVE, SUCCESSFUL STRAIGHT & GAY MEN ARE IN CAREER FIELDS NORMALLY OCCUPIED BY WOMEN. SO LET'S NOT CANCEL OUT ' MASCULINITY ' . IT'S STILL SO MUCH BETTER THEN WATCHING EVERY YOUNG BLACK GAY TEEN/MAN WHO COMES OUT FEEL AS IF HE MUST GO BEYOND METROSEXUALLY AND BECOME A BUNCH OF FEMS. EMBRACE YOUR MASCULINITY . [ GOD LOVES US ALL ].

  19. African King
    African King | May 8th, 2016
    0

    Embrace both sides. Fem and Masc. He has valid points. I'm not going to do drag like that hahaha but I do think everyone can get something from the clip especially the points about when you may be out with people in any social setting and you might wonder "was that a lil too damn gay?" lol.

  20. Rico | May 9th, 2016
    0

    Be what you are, just be it naturally. When I think of a "naturally" effeminate brother, I think of people like songwriter Billy Strayhorn or James Baldwin (i.e. unconscious mannerisms, natural speaking voice, etc.). There was none of that hyper-accented, phony swish stuff even if they weren't stereotypically masculine. It's sad so many take their cues from ridiculous media clowns rather than real people who accomplished much in the face of racial and sexual adversity.-

  21. Purple_Is_Wack
    Purple_Is_Wack | May 9th, 2016
    0

    RicoBe what you are, just be it naturally. When I think of a "naturally" effeminate brother, I think of people like songwriter Billy Strayhorn or James Baldwin (i.e. unconscious mannerisms, natural speaking voice, etc.). There was none of that hyper-accented, phony swish stuff even if they weren't stereotypically masculine. It's sad so many take their cues from ridiculous media clowns rather than real people who accomplished much in the face of racial and sexual adversity.-

    Whoever or whatever you are, just do it with class

  22. J | May 10th, 2016
    0

    I dug this article. Nobody can tell me I can't be my authentic, natural, masculine athletic self and a father etc and still love another dude and care deeply about shyt in my own ways. Honestly, with all this stuff mainstream "gay" culture tries to make everybody be — it's hard to feel there's any place. And now they're using he word "queer"??? They better get the f**k out of here and not place that around or about me. Life is rough enough. And I used to know Wade personally.

  23. Aejae
    Aejae | May 11th, 2016
    0

    They're probably the same type of people who get upset over the Masc4Masc concept. Look, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with masculinity. I love it! Hell! That's the reason why I love this website! But anyways, the ones who have this type of thinking, the "black gay queen feminists" (), really need to explore life a little more and realize how important masculinity plays in life. It's not that masculinity needs to cease. It's probably the need to always feel aggressive, dominant, and powerful, if it's not for the good. That is what we need to eliminate, because I am sure there are some aggressive, dominant, powerful feminine bottoms out there that would be upset if the tables would be turned on them as well. So stop the madness, and go take out the trash, or cut grass, or hell, go change your oil in your car. Ain't no woman gonna wanna do that, now will they?

  24. BlackguyExecutive
    BlackguyExecutive | May 11th, 2016
    0

    I think we like to beat these topics to death because we feel most comfortable speaking and acting in binaries. Man vs Woman, Fem vs Masc, Black vs White, Rich vs Poor, Dem vs Rep etc. It allows us to easily converse. In all reality all of the binaries I cited are a whole lot more nuanced. I think Wade's speech could have simply focused on wearing the mask and deconstructing that without projecting the binary conversation. The mask narrative is a legitimate argument that many gay men and women experience, the performance that is required when wearing the mask is the conversation, not Masculinity and Femininity.

  25. Ockydub
    Ockydub | May 11th, 2016
    0

    BlackguyExecutiveI think we like to beat these topics to death because we feel most comfortable speaking and acting in binaries. Man vs Woman, Fem vs Masc, Black vs White, Rich vs Poor, Dem vs Rep etc. It allows us to easily converse. In all reality all of the binaries I cited are a whole lot more nuanced. I think Wade's speech could have simply focused on wearing the mask and deconstructing that without projecting the binary conversation. The mask narrative is a legitimate argument that many gay men and women experience, the performance that is required when wearing the mask is the conversation, not Masculinity and Femininity.

    As stated above I agree with some of the points made in the vid and also some here…nonetheless…to declare masculinity as being not real or false is low key blasphemous. No one attacks femininity and women in their femaleness in this same fashion. Only feminist and queer feminist go in on masculinity like this and they dominate and control the national narrative. This double standard needs to be called out.

  26. BlackguyExecutive
    BlackguyExecutive | May 11th, 2016
    0
    Ockydub

    As stated above I agree with some of the points made in the vid and also some here…nonetheless…to declare masculinity as being not real or false is low key blasphemous. No one attacks femininity and women in their femaleness in this same fashion. Only feminist and queer feminist go in on masculinity like this and they dominate and control the national narrative. This double standard needs to be called out.

    I think a lot of it has to do with whether you think patriarchy is a real thing or not. I think a lot of feminists queer and otherwise, consider patriarchy as a system in which we are all indoctrinated in and operate within, and that is why masculinity, the primary force that maintain the patriarchy system, is heavily scrutinized.

  27. Ockydub
    Ockydub | May 11th, 2016
    0

    BlackguyExecutiveI think a lot of it has to do with whether you think patriarchy is a real thing or not. I think a lot of feminists queer and otherwise, consider patriarchy as a system in which we are all indoctrinated in and operate within, and that is why masculinity, the primary force that maintain the patriarchy system, is heavily scrutinized.

    Yes we can talk about patriarchy and misandry and misogyny and (on the real) matriarchy. A large portion of Black families in the US are not run by men as the head of household but by single women (mothers, grandmothers, aunties, etc). In these households, matriarchy dominates.

    As a child, I learned from the mouths of black women that black men were "no good, lying cheating dogs." As a young black boy, that had an impact on how I viewed self. I was told on numerous occasions that I was "just like my damn daddy" who was an abusive tyrant. I was nothing like that as a child nor as an adult male. That had an impact. So for many Black men like myself, before we talk about the evils of patriarchy and misogyny, we need to examine the negative impacts of matriarchy on young Black boys. Even though, I understand this doesn't fit into the feminist narrative that a lot of Black gay men have adopted and subscribe to.

  28. BlackguyExecutive
    BlackguyExecutive | May 11th, 2016
    0
    Ockydub

    Yes we can talk about patriarchy and misandry and misogyny and (on the real) matriarchy. A large portion of Black families in the US are not run by men as the head of household but by single women (mothers, grandmothers, aunties, etc). In these households, matriarchy dominates.

    As a child, I learned from the mouths of black women that black men were "no good, lying cheating dogs." As a young black boy, that had an impact on how I viewed self. I was told on numerous occasions that I was "just like my damn daddy" who was an abusive tyrant. I was nothing like that as a child nor as an adult male. That had an impact. So for many Black men like myself, before we talk about the evils of patriarchy and misogyny, we need to examine the negative impacts of matriarchy on young Black boys. Even though, I understand this doesn't fit into the feminist narrative that a lot of Black gay men have adopted and subscribe to.

    Now this is the conversation that should be had. I suspect that feminist would state at matriarchy can't exist as a system from an historical perspective because women have not had nor have that kind of power but you make an interesting point about how women have shaped households not only in the US but around the world. I suspect feminist would consider your sentiment as outliers in the grand scheme of social order and that men and maleness still dominates and uses that power to control women and by proxy lesser men. I haven't talked feminism in a while, although I did read a critique by the legendary black feminist icon bell hooks today on Beyonce's Lemonade. Too bad all Beyonce's Stans won't actually 1) take time to read her work, and 2) probably won't understand her criticism. Moving Beyond Pain

  29. Jeremy Carter Powell
    Jeremy Carter Powell | May 16th, 2016
    0

    This was a VERY good read. Masculinity is no longer being appreciated within the LGBT community, which is why so, so SO many of these men are running around here acting like women. I get dirty looks every time I bring it up, but shyt, it is the TRUTH. I Before my mom died I remember her saying that she was glad I wasn't prancing around like some fairy, and to some that might be offensive but to me, hearing that felt good because I love my masculinity and while it doesn't define me, it is a part of who I am. I wish more gay/ sgl men could value that….and stop acting like Wendy Williams lol

  30. JD | June 10th, 2016
    0

    This argument is flawed from the beginning. Despite what you’re suggesting, “women” don’t have the monopoly on femininity and “men” don’t have the monopoly on masculinity. No one is disrespected as a woman to have their personality or their behaviors described as masculine & visa versa. Regardless of how rugged and brutish you think you are, you WILL exhibit some expressions of effeminacy (btw this word is not interchangeable with feminism; that seemed to be misunderstood in the article). And additionally, please understand that there are probably no other movements than those of feminism and the lgbtq… movements that have done more to make sure that you are recognized and understood (as a man, gay, bisexual, queer, pan-sexual, masculine, feminine, and everything else in between). Without an ounce of intended insult, the creators of this site and probably most men who visit this site need to educate themselves on topics of gender, sexuality, misogyny, patriarchy, and privilege. This article has completely erased the presence of non-gender conforming people and people of various other sexualities. Not to mention the people who don’t feel comfortable with certain/any identity(-ies). Deal with your insecurities. You are not more valuable because you identify as a man or “masc.” You’re working against your own self-interest and don’t even know it.

  31. Ockydub
    Ockydub | June 11th, 2016
    0
    Comment Imported From Main Site

    This argument is flawed from the beginning. Despite what you're suggesting, "women" don't have the monopoly on femininity and "men" don't have the monopoly on masculinity. No one is disrespected as a woman to have their personality or their behaviors described as masculine & visa versa. Regardless of how rugged and brutish you think you are, you WILL exhibit some expressions of effeminacy (btw this word is not interchangeable with feminism; that seemed to be misunderstood in the article). And additionally, please understand that there are probably no other movements than those of feminism and the lgbtq… movements that have done more to make sure that you are recognized and understood (as a man, gay, bisexual, queer, pan-sexual, masculine, feminine, and everything else in between). Without an ounce of intended insult, the creators of this site and probably most men who visit this site need to educate themselves on topics of gender, sexuality, misogyny, patriarchy, and privilege. This article has completely erased the presence of non-gender conforming people and people of various other sexualities. Not to mention the people who don't feel comfortable with certain/any identity(-ies). Deal with your insecurities. You are not more valuable because you identify as a man or "masc." You're working against your own self-interest and don't even know it.

    The response from inside of a feminist queer anti-masculinity bubble. Making points and answering questions that no one asked.

    • JD | June 18th, 2016
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      Ockydub, I think you’re emphasizing the wrong thing. Wade Davis’s Ebony post is misleading, but I can appreciate that he’s not a scholar. When he says masculinity’s “NOT real” I think he was being hasty and mis-spoke, because in his TEDTalk he says “all types of masculinities and identities deserve to be respected and honored, free from shame.” Never in the talk does he say or imply that masculinity should be dismantled. In any case, the preoccupation many self-identified black, gay men have with masculinity is a desperation for social leverage. That often manifests as femmephobia. Ockydub, I think you’re a femme-phobe. And I don’t say that to be rude. You’ve made everything feminine the enemy. It’s what your site is dedicated to. If you make any claims to be a confident gay man, you can only truly be that with an appreciate for all queer expression. The myth that queer men can’t be masculine presenting is not the fault of the effeminate men who have no choice but to be perceived as “gay.” You need to place your frustrations with the masculine presenting queer men who choose not to use their presence as a possible alternative; and additionally, the greater society that chooses not to educate itself.




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