HAVING SEX WITH A MAN DOESN'T MAKE YOU GAY

Discussion in 'Group Discussions' started by Lancer, Aug 3, 2016.

  1. Lancer

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    Labels are important. They help us. They can protect us. Labels tell you that there are baked beans in the tin you’re holding; labels warn us not to wash our merino sweater above 30 degrees. We trust labels, because without them, we’d get it wrong. But sometimes, labels don’t work – they are derogatory or incorrect or unwelcome. One part of society where labels are changing is within sexuality and gender. As the landscape expands from straight/gay and man/woman to include bisexuality, queerness and trans people, among others, many are finding themselves moving away from the specific, restrictive pigeonholing a label can bring and merely tagging themselves “Me”.

    But what happens when you’re happy with the label society has assigned you, but quite fancy trying out something someone like you doesn’t normally do, or what if you start to travel down one path, only to find you prefer another, and want to change course and stay on it for ever? Do you have to re-label yourself? Does it mean you’re not who you thought you were? Is it time to mute whichever episode of Stranger Things you’re watching, stand up, tell the room you dreamt another man’s erection touched you and have an identity crisis? In short: if you’re straight but have sex with another guy, does it make you gay?


    It rather depends on what you think being gay means. For most people, ask what "gay" means to them and, if we’re talking about guys, they’ll say a man who has sex with other men. And this, of course, is a huge part of being gay. But the reduction of gayness to be nothing more than just sex can not only be counter-productive – as in, uptight straight guys are missing out on something quite spectacular – and, frankly, homophobic, but it’s also plain wrong.


    You know when you see a kid acting or talking a certain way and you think, “they’re gay” or “they’ll be gay when they’re older” – how do you explain that? They don’t even know what sex is yet, straight or gay. The feelings "gay" children have and the character traits they display can’t be boiled down to some potential gay sex they may or may not be having 10 or 15 years down the line – that’s gayness right there, already in play. Whether you believe in nature or nurture or any other theory, there’s more to being gay than just shagging another guy.

    So if we remove the label of "gay" from sex acts we traditionally assume are only the domain of gay men, does this mean you can take part in them and still be straight? Where do we draw the line? Getting a blow job from a guy, for example, is something a lot more straight men have experienced than the stony faces down at the Dog and Gun might have you believe. Is it less gay if there’s no mutual contact of genitals? Because it’s passive? A service, almost?

    James, 28, says he regularly got blowjobs from a gay pal in his teens, but he doesn’t consider himself gay. “Me and my mate would fool around but mainly he would do it to me,” he explains. “I wasn’t as interested in his cock as he was in mine, but I think we both got something out of it.” If there’s one thing hormone-frazzled 17-year-old boys aren’t getting anywhere near enough of as they want, it’s oral sex. “I didn’t have a girlfriend yet and my mate was just discovering his sexuality and wanted to try. I always made it clear we weren’t in a relationship and that nobody should know. But I didn’t feel guilty and I think he was cool with it.”


    You could argue that there was an element of exploitation to James’s relationship with his mate. The friend was finding his feet with his sexuality and James was the willing guinea pig – as long as nobody found out – but if you’re encouraging a gay man to perform fellatio on you, aren’t you gay? “I’ve never been with a man since and I’m happily married now. I doubt I’d do it again as that would mean being unfaithful, but I consider myself straight. It’s fine to experiment; it’s a big part of finding out who you are.”


    And what about when contact with another man happens as part of your relationship? Mark, a 28-year-old investment banker had already had one skirmish with a gay guy when his colleague’s boyfriend came on to him in a club bathroom and went down on him – real life really is stranger than soap opera – but his second time was a different matter altogether. His girlfriend was there.


    “I was in the couples room at Torture Garden [a fetish club in London] and a stranger gave me a blowjob,” Mark explains. “I was there with my girlfriend at the time and we’d both got pretty wild.”

    So why stop at a blowjob and not take it further? When in Rome, and all that. “I just didn’t really feel the desire to f*** him. I suppose it’s possible I might go further one day but I think it’s very unlikely. I almost never think men are attractive.”

    But if you’re involving a third person in your hitherto straight sex life, does this mean either you or your partner is bisexual? For Mark, it’s not a concern. “Why do I continue to identify as straight? I suppose it’s because I couldn’t imagine myself having a relationship with a man. In the same way I have gay friends who’ve f***ed women, but would never identify as bi, or worry they’re straight.

    “I think that ‘being gay’ or ‘being straight’ is about much more than some sexual contact.”


    So a BJ is a BJ, but what about when things go further? Is the threshold for gayness actual penetration? Surely, if you’re having anal sex with a man, you’re gay, no? That’s what the guys in the locker room would say, right?

    Thinking about having sex with a man isn’t a sign you’re gay yourself, no more than idly imaging pushing your evil boss under a truck means you’re a latent homicidal maniac. Sometimes, though, even if you’ve never imagined it, when the opportunity presents itself, a primal instinct takes over, as videographer Zak, 25, discovered.

    “I'd never really thought about being bi or gay, he explains. “I'd only ever been with girls and had never really been sexually attracted to any guys.

    “When I was 20 a load of our sixth form year got together for a party. George was a guy from my year I’d known fairly well but never been close to. We were both fairly drunk and I remember just feeling happy to see him for the first time in ages and for some reason, knowing he was gay, I kissed him rather than hugging him. We chatted for a bit and then we both carried on with the night – not really thinking much about it.”

    So far, so straight – no need to adjust any labels so far. Everyone is as they should be.

    Zak continues: “Later on, we were both alone on the landing and he kissed me again. This time, for some reason, I didn't really stop him and before long we were fully making out – we snuck into one of the bedrooms and one thing led to another.”

    But was this a harrowing experience? Was there much soul-searching or did Zak just have a blast?

    “I did enjoy myself. I suppose I'm quite a sexually liberal person and didn't really think of it as being 'gay', it was just was fun and at the time I was enjoying it.”

    The ability to distance oneself from any gayness of a sex act perhaps comes from how it plays out. Who shags who, who touches what – that kind of thing. Like James getting a BJ from his pal, Zak’s mate was also providing a service of sorts, but Zak was an active participant. “We had sex, both oral and anal,” says Zak. “I ‘topped' [the other guy played a passive role and ‘received’], I don't think I’d have been comfortable with it the other way around.”

    It’s not uncommon for straight men who have sex with another man to experience "gay panic" and feel guilty about what they’ve done and what it means. This can, on occasion, lead to persecution of, or violence against the other guy, whether he’s gay or also straight. But Zak remains unfazed about the experience.

    “I wasn't embarrassed or ashamed,” he says. “I still identify as straight and don't think I’d initiate something with a bloke, but put in the same situation I could see myself doing it again.”

    Some guys might worry that they were gay – and if you’re wondering why anyone would "worry" about such a thing, do take a moment to research how gay men and women are treated across the world – but Zak takes a more relaxed approach.

    “One of my uni friends described himself as 'hetero-flexible' and I reckon that's probably where I am at too,” says Zak. “I don't think repeating it would make me ‘gay'. I'm not attracted to them but I can appreciate men who are attractive. In the same way I’ve slept with women in the past who I don't think I was really attracted to, sometimes sex is just sex and it's fun.”

    And Zak’s right, sex is just sex. It’s common for gay people, when they first come out, to say their sexuality doesn’t define them, that there’s more to them than simply being gay. It’s all part of the process of recognising your sexual orientation and assert yourself as an individual, not part of some flock or movement. It’s the vestigial feelings of shame that coming out is supposed to eradicate, hanging on for dear life. “I’m not like the others,” they think. Most of us get over it eventually and reconcile with the fact we’re gay, but this refusal to define can, in some cases, be a positive thing – a defiance of society’s boring old norms. As long as it’s used constructively and positively, and not homophobically of course.

    You as an individual get to decide how you label your sexuality, if at all. As long as nobody’s feelings are getting screwed over, you’re free to have sex with men or women at will and still call yourself straight.

    But it’s worth acknowledging that you’re merely a tourist and all the privilege this gives you. You get all the pluses of gay sex – and they are pluses, admit it, you love it – but, as long it’s kept on the downlow, none of the prejudice and pressures the LGBT community faces apply to you. You get to dip in, and out, with little or none of the comeback.

    Labels inform and warn and categorise, but they also help us come to terms with who we are. A label can be something to cling to, to identify with, to make us feel safe, to tell the world what we’re about.


    Avoiding them altogether is brave, choosing one and then flouting the conventions of it could be braver still, but living with a label 24/7 and taking all the consequences it throws at you is perhaps the bravest path of all. And those repercussions can be noxious: LGBT people are discriminated against, mocked, beaten and murdered, all for doing things you get to do without question. Just for being.

    Having sex with a man doesn’t mean you’re gay, definitely not. You get to be who you want to be. But don’t forget the sacrifices your gay brothers make on a daily basis so you can have that freedom to choose. You get to go back to your privileged status in the world – we can only be us.

    "Gay" sex acts aren’t something to be ashamed of; if you’re man enough to do it and still call yourself straight, be man enough to talk about it. Don’t let it be a dirty little secret; own your sexuality – whatever it may be – with pride.

    Having sex with a man doesn't make you gay
     
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  2. Lancer

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    This is a nice write up!
     
  3. Dante

    Dante https://www.gofundme.com/qv7v5dw
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    Yes, having had a sexual experience with someone of either the same or opposite sex cannot confirm your sexuality. The physical act of sex is its own being.

    However, when talking about "labels do not mean anything", "Sex is just sex"..., you have to be careful when someone who is on the DL/in the closet or is dealing with internal homo/biphobia is reading and is continuing on as they are, after having read anything of the sentiments.

    Having sex with a man does not make you gay. However, if you are sexually attracted to that man, you are not straight. And if that is the case, it is very important to embrace, value, love and respect that 1000%.

    It would be nice if a guy could say "Yeah, I sucked a dick four months ago, but it was for fun" and still can walk around saying he is straight. But the heteronormative world we live in only gives ladies/women that pass...ijs.
     
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  4. JohnDoe

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    As I've mentioned on another post and I will repeat it here it's important to reflect on the differences between sexual desire, sexual behaviour and sexual identity. Most people aren't aware or choose ignore these distinctions and simply opt for the obvious, usually false, categorisation. Ignorance isn't bliss.
     
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  5. NikR

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    this right here
     
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  6. Winston Smith

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    It may not make you necessarily gay but it will make you happy...
     
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  7. jpo

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    Moving beyond the simple question of whom you have sex with, this quote reaches a different part of the issue - the way someone acts.
    A close and trusted friend maintains he is not gay - in part he says he does not want to be labelled, but he also says that he is not gay by any definition or extension of the definition. He came by the house last night while we were finishing dinner - my guests were family members who'd heard me speak about him for years. This was the first time they met him. We sat around the table for three hours, he and I dishing dirt on each other, and him being the usually over-the-top provocative person that he can be. When he left my nephew's wife said something about him being a perfect match for me and asked whether we ever dated. I said, no, he wasn't/isn't gay. No one believed me. From their experience - and she works in the fashion industry in San Francisco - he was every bit the gay man. Over ten years ago, he came as my guest to a professional function where he met a number of my colleagues. They were impressed with his knowledge of public health policy, among other things. The next morning, over coffee two of my colleagues asked why I wasn't dating him. I gave the same answer. They did not believe me.
    I used to have a dinner party every year to commemorate something important in my life. The first year he came he brought a drop-dead handsome man, who lived in a different city. They had been best friends for years, and spent weekends often visiting each other. The two were a constant at my annual party for six years, then one year he came alone. My friend never spoke of him again. Since then, there has been nobody else apparent in his life, but a significant number of his friends are gay.
    I respect him and his decision not to have others choose a label for him, but as long as I have known him - 17 years - I have been puzzled. So is it for him simply a question of his sexual partner?
     
  8. Dante

    Dante https://www.gofundme.com/qv7v5dw
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    He seems to be a gay or bisexual man who does not want gay placed on him bc of the stigma that society has created that comes with the public acknowledgment of being gay. I can understand him doing so for many reasons. It is not internal homophobia or being On the DL/In the Closet; it is about wanting to just be without having to feel obligated to deal with his sexuality with everyone else.

    He has probably felt that it would be best to keep his sexuality in the Sexual Identity Protection program.
     
    #8 Dante, Aug 4, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2016
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  9. jpo

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    Okay, I would have replied to this sooner, but I could not stop laughing > Sexual Identity Protection Program! Thanks

    I will now spend the next few years not using that when we have one of our disagreements. Thanks, I think

    But seriously, I am not sure if it is stigma. At one point I thought it might be but he makes no effort to be discreet in what others clearly see as "gay" behavior and mannerisms.

    In any case, he is - or appears to be - comfortable in who he is. And I accept him as the good friend he is.
     
  10. LeMignon

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    upload_2016-8-5_15-50-12.png
     
  11. jusrawb

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    I think a lot straight identifying men participate in "gay" behavior but will not admit it ever. I have a friend that gets really drunk and becomes touchy feely and possibly is curious but once sober he plays the too drunk to remember card and swears he is not gay or bi. I think there is a very thin line between a straight guy just having fun and a guy that just refuses to accept his attraction to men. Either way enjoy life and be honest with yourself.
     
  12. ColumbusGuy

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    'in part he says he does not want to be labelled, but he also says that he is not gay by any definition or extension of the definition.'

    I think he is gay. He is a gay guy who just does not want to be called a gay guy or identified as a gay guy. But he is still gay. I might think he could also be asexual or bi, but to partly say you are not gay cause you don't want to be labeled is something only a gay person would say. If not, you would just say 'I am not gay'-you would not need to modify it or explain anything. Why would someone say' I am not gay by any definition of extension of the definition or I don't want to be labeled if you are not gay-you would just say 'I am not gay' if you were not gay. I wonder what his definitions are?
    If he really is 'not gay'(and also not bi or asexual) this would be a first for my experience.

    I always think of 'gay' as less in terms of behavior and more in terms of feelings and long standing attractions. If you can romantically fall in love with a guy(and I mean real falling in love, not 'hero worship or anything-you all know what I mean) then you are gay or bi. Anyone can have sex with anyone, theoretically. Sex is just an act. You can help what you do-you can't help what you feel inside.
    Just like the 'ex-gays'-they don't have sex with guys, they may get married, etc. and live like a straight guy, but they all eventually(if honest)admit that the attractions are still there, and strong, and don't go away no matter how they fight them. And they have to struggle to try and find opposite sex sexual attraction, while fighting the natural same sex attraction.
     
  13. Naturally10Me

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    For me, I consider myself sexually fluid. When I was in college I pursued what I liked. No matter the sex. I think any curious dude is going to explore whether it be in open with another dude or in secret through his porn focusing on a dudes dick.
     
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