Best Posts in Thread: Holler If You Hear Me: Black and Gay in the Church

I grew up in the church, however I do not consider myself religious now. I can understand people need hope and something or someone to believe in, but I just can't sit there whenever they have the homosexual sermon. It's too much for me and always has been.

 

No, I don't think there is a god, or higher power, or creator. I think the physical universe is all there is and we inhabit a small somewhat unremarkable corner of it. Science is not a belief system it is a body of knowledge and is a method for obtaining knowledge. As for creationism it is not even a theory. Theory has to have some evidence to back it up to be accepted by the scientific community. Creation myths are taught by religions as absolute inerrant truth. Back to god there are so many gods worshipped by humans. The Abrahamic god most people worship is not the only game in town. He happens to be popular at this historical moment because for centuries Christians and Muslims conquered, murdered, and forced pagans to convert. I think it's telling no one else on earth heard of Yahweh/Allah/god the father before Christians and Muslims became the biggest bullies on the block. Every action taken by this god only takes place in the ancient middle-east. But this so called god is supposedly the creator of all human beings and the entire universe. I find such a claim to be dubious.

 

The real question isn't whether or not is there a place for gay people in the black church or church in general. The real question is why would gay people even want to belong to such a monstrous and destructive institution? It's because of the church we are in the position were in American society where we still have to struggle to be respected as human beings. In places where the church has even more influence, like Africa and the Caribbean gay people are in even more of dangerous position where they can be imprisoned, beaten up, tortured, or even executed by a lynch mob. The church encourages the state to sanction this. Even now in the USA the church, including black churches oppose gay rights, promote anti-gay attitudes, and discrimination. Why would any gay person support and want to belong to an institution that hates you, that says you're an abomination, that says you should be executed, that says you will not enter the kingdom of god? Christianity has been dehumanizing and encouraging hatred of gay people for centuries. Believing in this backward and repressive mythology is like a Jewish person who wants to belong to the Nazi party.

 

The older I get the more I have moved away from the church and all their workings. I grew up and the church and experienced the hypocrisy and I cannot support it.
My frustration with the gay community is this hunger to be accepted by a business that no matter how much you give, time, money, skills, tithes, ect., they are not going to fully accept you. There may be some pockets of acceptance but overall we are still not accepted in the church.
My anger with the black church is that they have forgotten their history. This church they are so quick to defend is the same church that justified slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, police brutality and a list of other things. Why do we hold on to something that just 300 years ago was used to demoralize us. Just doesn't make sense.

 

There is no getting around the fact that the abrahamic religions' texts are deeply homophobic. If you say homosexuality is good, you are challenging the morals of the bible. Likewise if you say the bible is good, you are challenging the the morals of gay people. It seems like the only people who have a problem accepting this are gay christians.

 

I can deal more with a church that says "i disagree" when it comes to homosexuality and tries to back it up objectively more than I can deal with one that spews outright hate because "two mens is wrong".Like a difference of opinon type of thing .But usually churches try to advocate things I disagree with in general like staying in a failed marriage for the kids or stuff like that so I've more or less moved away from the institution.It feels like empty tradtions that people aren't sure why they follow.I have my own beliefs and spiritual practices,and feel I don't need the church(someone else's system of functioning) to further any of that .

Short answer: No.If you are gay and believe in God that will be to radical to be accepted in the church as much as it will be to tell the church mothers you read Jiddu Kishnamurti .

 

I might not be the most qualified person to speak on this, as I have been struggling with my faith lately as well, but I don't think it's fair to only state the negative things religion has done even as a gay person. Religion, like science, can used to destroy yes, but it has also been used to create as well. Inspire hope and clairity to billions of people, provide education and development of fields of research used to this very day, hospitals, charities, and philosophies that promote love, respect, generosity to others and development of self worth and growth.

People's desire for power and control, and their own interpretations of any given faith is the cause of all of the hate, and the way they used it to harm others is what causes so much suffering and pain.

I continue to be a Christian now because....well it's all I've ever known, but in admitting to myself now, I've realized that it's not about tradition or pleasing a specific person, it's about your faith and personal spiritual (or non spiritual) journey. Not believing in God will not make you any less or more of a person or free, there are anti-gay atheists and people out there that will hate you for any other reason....but I think there is room in the church for gay people.

Jesus walked with sinners, not church folk, and his greatest commandments were of love. I'm not completely familiar with every religion mind you, but I'm sure that there are others that preach the similar doctrines.

I really liked when you said this Discordant! I think this may be why some people stay in churches that are less accepting sometimes... It's not easy to change a certain mindset overnight.

At this point I feel like I'm up in the air with certain beliefs, but I still just want to be a good person like I think we all do