See this is the kinda stuff I HATE. Many people think being more comfortable with your gay sexuality means becoming more feminine. This is probably not what you meant in general @mojoreece but I see this ALL the time in gay communities in person and places online. Gay means fem, if you aren't embracing that you are ashamed or hiding.
When filmmakers show a kid that might be gay, they show him secretly wearing his Mother's clothes or jewelry. They don't show him playing ball with his friends and his eyes lingering a little longer on the other boys. No, that would be too subtle and it doesn't fit into the narrative of "being gay." But its a reality. Its MY reality. I'm totally comfortable with my homosexuality and my masculinity. Even though I don't broadcast being gay to the public, neither do a lot of straight people. I've had two big client jobs this year, working at their offices. Not once can I think of a time when the employees there flaunted their heterosexuality. Not saying that it doesn't happen, but when it doesn't I don't accuse them of "hiding" their sexuality or being ashamed of being straight.
Best Posts in Thread: DL Hate, or Masculine Bashing?
What he is saying just reminds me of this clip.... Get over yourself. A lot of those dudes he talking about probably dont give a fuck about him being gay and are very confidant in themselves...
They just dont like irritating minstrel gays.
I only saw it once and I'm at work right now and can't really go back and relisten at the moment but I recall him saying he was talking about "friends"and "people" so I am guessing that there's a small population that wants to be Kiki and talk about Beyoncé and dem while maintaining their masc privilege card. I'm all for pop culture talk too but I'm not going to be "Rih Rih ssssuuhhhlaaaayyyed da kids " or "I read miss Keith for filth hunny"
From what recall it sounds like we can't be masc and gay and "just be " because we still have to conform to what the Gay Gatekeepers deem as gay culture. My whole family knows I'm gay I couldn't give two shits about what other people think but I also don't walk around making everything about my life centering around being gay. Or doing things "for the cause "when honestly I don't really feel like my type of being gay is welcomed among that group anyway If there's counter cultures to gay, I'm definitely on one of those groups.
I hear what he's saying but I don't appreciate him lumping all masculine guys who don't want to be called "girl" "sis" "sis" "biiiiitch" into the hyper masculine label.
Gay gatekeepers and influencers like this make guys who don't get into the lingo feel like there's no place for them to just be regular dudes who are "just" gay.
However I can agree that the guys who allow themselves to be sexed and not seen are their own problem. They want masculine dudes more than they want to be respected. AND when they get disrespect or step outside of whatever terms they agreed on, want to "queen out" and act a fool down to the job, barbershop, mama house because they are in their feelings and don't want to be ignored. Just like women do.
Yeah at the end masculine or feminine, we are all gay or at least not heterosexual so we're viewed as the same. I have said that for years. However you can't get mad at the masculine dude who doesn't remind people he's gay every 5 minutes. Some people just don't want to bring extra attention to themselves and they are masculine, gay, and out.
Clearly at 34 he's aware of this slice of the gay population but he neglected to mention that. Ironic.
I didn't read the entire thread but I will say this: In the past, both @OckyDub and myself have been guilty of generalizing feminine men in our commentary and podcasts. We were corrected on this, particularly by fem men who enjoyed our site/discussions yet also felt like they didn't relate to "queer culture" as well.
This made me realize that my beefs were not with effeminate men, but actually with the monolithic view of what being a gay male was: A sassy fem diva worshiper who spewed shade and gay slang and constantly made sexual innuendos. Basically ppl like Funky Dineva. They say to "live in your truth" but only if that "truth" fits into their definition of being gay. As others have mentioned, being masculine is NOT rejecting being gay or "straight acting."
FD may not have specifically said this in this video but he has def said something like this in the past. And many of the other "queer" bloggers have as well. They say they're offended when masculine men call or imply that they are women, but they call each other "girl" "sis" and "queens" all day long...I'm not sure you can have it both ways. I'm a man, love being a man and identifying as a man...to call me otherwise is fighting words, even if you are also gay.
My point is, why can't I NOT prefer female pronouns? I get that in his world, it's just lingo, but why can't i stand for the fact that I happen to like peen, and dislike being called girl, simultaneously?
How are u fighting to be accepted for who you are, but u can't accept the fact that gays aren't a monolith?!
Like I said, I have no issues w fem men. My issues from Day One of this website is that the representation for ALL types of gay men is not equally propagated. I get the argument that "masculine men aren't as visible as fem men in public" but when our own community creates websites, stories or films about being gay its ALWAYS from the fem perspective...and masculine depicted in those perspectives are shown as DL or merely as objects of sexual fantasy (ie: Any film by Patrik Ian Polk).
I just want to point out one thing about the title of this thread "Masculine Bashing" the word bashing has an inherent violent connotation that I think it is grossly being misused. There is a very real problem with DL and other non-hetero men who resort to violence and quite literally bash other men who they have engaged in relations when they are caught in an effort to hide their own behavior. I understand that the word bashing is being used for inference here but we live in an age where words matter.
Therefore, I don't think this video represents masculine bashing, it represents masculine belittlement. Sorry for going all linguistic on this thread but I think it is important to recognize that no one is really being bashed here but the circumstance of gay bashing is real even within the non-hetero community.
*Disclaimer and Context* I am a masculine man and I actually follow his content. For those who aren't familiar, he does not make videos like these much at all so for him to be speaking on this means a little something in my opinion. I don't think he blanketed anything. He actually spoke on very specific cases in the masculine gay spectrum and made concessions for the portion of gay men who are closeted out of fear; doesn't mean he has to want to be around them.
1. I try to avoid DL/keep-up-appearance type gay men because he's right, they do make you feel like you're back in the closet. While I'm not super-out, I've still developed a certain level of comfort within my skin so I don't mind if people suspect I might be gay. In the end, it's frustrating and not fair to me which is why I push myself to tough it out if I'm ever out with a group of more feminine-leaning men. I chose to put myself in that space so I shouldn't be punishing others for my discomfort. No one should have be around conditional ass people.
2. I understand and agree with where he's coming from in terms of the hypermasculine gay dude. Thing is, how can you sit around a group of more feminine-leaning gay men who are "spilling tea/keke'ing" and you all in it too but as soon as someone calls you something out of habit that is particular to that group, you get mad? They're not calling you girl, sis, etc bc they think you one of the girls, it's just habit. It's like when dudes refer to women as "bro" etc, etc. This is a case of fragile masculinity. Also, if you've never gone to bat for the gay struggle in any setting as a masculine man who enjoys both sides of society, that's a problem.
3. Brings me to my next point in terms of not sharing the struggle - it's true. Where would these masculine-leaning, closeted men have to go if the more open folks didn't create that space? What do the masculine-leaning men contribute to the struggle/conversation if they are in the closet/DL? The answer is nothing yet they still enjoy the safe havens.
Coming from an honest place, all of these figures are problematic. Try to listen to his words for what they are instead of who they're coming from.