Gay Movies, Masculinity, and Crossover Appeal

Discussion in 'Movies and Shorts' started by acessential, Dec 14, 2017.

  1. acessential

    Squad Leader Best Thread Creator The 1000 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages:
    580
    Daps Received:
    1,509
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Roaming
    This is an interesting article. I know on the site we've talked about how gay men are often portrayed as effeminate in the media and how we're in support of a more diverse representation of homosexuality and same-sex relations. But this author argues that when it comes to crossover appeal and reaching a mass audience, movies are more likely to portray gay characters as stereotypically masculine. Gay movies with the highest accolades don't touch upon gender nonconformity. They always seem to involve two regular guys who happen to have same-sex attractions. He gives the examples of three of the (arguably) most well-known, well-received crossover films: "Brokeback Mountain," "Moonlight," and the new film "Call Me By Your Name."

    I see where the author is coming from, but I don't fully agree. I think by portraying gay characters as masculine, you're actually working against preconceived societal notions of what it means it to be gay. I think portraying gay characters as gender nonconforming would just reinforce what society already believes. But, his words are still something to think about. I forewarn you, it's a pretty long article.

    Not All Queer Love Stories Are Called Universal
     
    Apollo and Cyrus-Brooks dapped this.
  2. mojoreece

    Bae Material The 1000 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,051
    Daps Received:
    2,057
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    NC
    I a bigger issue is not so much the gay stuff. It's more of how the story is being told. The background story and writing.. The other intersectional subject matter included. The way the story is filmed---cinematography. I mean moonlight is a really beautiful filmed visual appeasing (Trevante too:p) movie to look at.
     
  3. Apollo

    Apollo Enemy of the Status Quo

    Age:
    38
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2016
    Messages:
    21
    Daps Received:
    40
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Outside of Boston
    Orientation:
    Gay
    Dating:
    Single
    Thanks for sharing the article. I like both "Brokeback Mountain" and " Moonlight" and hope they continue to make more movies with gay masculine characters and include them in other genres.

    I may not be the most knowledgeable or up-to-date on movies. But I was just wondering, have any action/adventure movies been made where the main character is gay masculine? Like a gay James Bond? Or are there any superhero movies with gay masculine characters? I think it would be cool to have a gay wolverine/gay superman or some gay masculine superheros in the X-Men movies.
     
    ColumbusGuy dapped this.
  4. OckyDub

    OckyDub is a Verified MemberOckyDub Fair Use Nigga....Fair Use
    Site Founder The 10000 Daps Club The 100 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    4,928
    Daps Received:
    10,945
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The 4th Dimension Is MINE!
    In response to the article.

    The Crying Game, To Wong Foo, The Birdcage.
    3 highly acclaimed awarded films with fem leaning gay characters. So there's that.


    "but they are all narratives about the difficulty or impossibility of love between men who just happen to desire other men."

    I think we need more of this not less...even though I know the article is not stating this.

    As far as Brokeback, I saw less hyper-masculinity and just masculine men who were DL or in the closet. I find it interesting on what is considered hyper masculine by queers / feminists / fem-centric individuals that may be considered normal behavior outside of their prisms.

    I think its telling that one of the best ways to convincingly portray masculine leaning non-heterosexual men in film is to have straight actors and straight directors. This is mostly because non-heterosexual actors, directors or content creator's creativity is rooted in fem-centric culture. For the most part their masculine characters and actors are still visiblly fem leaning.

    Chiron in the film Moonlight (inspired by Tarell Alvin McCraney's play) is portrayed differently than Chiron in the play. The source material Chiron was a fem boy. By taking that element away, it differentiated it from the run of the mill typical gay tale as told by Black Gay film makers.

    Trevante Rhodes stated, “I was born loving women, but I could have just as easily been born loving men and … I would have been the same exact person, behaving the same exact way
    .”

    This is something that, for the most part, gay/queer culture doesn't understand. If you are not performing gay / queer as the way its been instructed and patterned (fem/fem leaning); you're "acting", "not living in your truth", and full of self hate. This is an example of how the dominate gay / queer culture is hypocritically non-inclusive.

    "as studies of masculine emotion — can be a reminder of how narrowly gendered the current claims to universality still are."
    How isn't traditional gay media narrowly gendered fem and why is the above sentiment always missing when critiquing traditional Gay films?
     
    Dante and Cyrus-Brooks dapped this.
  5. ColumbusGuy

    ColumbusGuy Deactivated Account

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,421
    Daps Received:
    2,988
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Backwater, Ohio
    Orientation:
    Gay
    Dating:
    Not looking
    When it comes to James Bond they should get a black man before a gay man. Idris Elba would be perfect(before he gets too old lol). I can't stand the current Bond.
     
    MegamanX, Cyrus-Brooks and mojoreece dapped this.
  6. Cyrus-Brooks

    Cyrus-Brooks is a Featured MemberCyrus-Brooks The Black Vulcan
    Squad Leader Best Site Comments The 1000 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,134
    Daps Received:
    2,130
    Gender:
    Male
    Dating:
    In a Relationship
    I have my own ideas as to why movies like Brownback Mountain and Moonlight work for mainstream(heterosexual) audiences. First I'll start of by cosigning the points made by others who have posted in that effeminate gay men are the default image of gay men in popular media. Any representation of them just confirms any preconceived notions and biases that heteros have about gay men so their faulty ideas about gay men aren't challenged. They aren't forced to examine their prejudices and are not forced take gay men seriously as men. Really good art challenges people. Which leads me to why characters like Ennis, Jack, Chiron, or Omar from "the Wire" are appealing. It is easier for typically masculine straight guys to relate to a gay dude who's demeanor, attitude, and interests match their own. Even if they don't get how a man could sexually attracted to another man. Sexual orientation aside it's someone they can relate to as guy. Also a masculine gay man on screen can still appeal to straight women. Don't believe me? I'm willing to bet $20 most heterosexual women would line up to get piped by Trevante Rhodes or James Franco even though they both have portrayed gay characters. Which bucks the traditional wisdom about playing a gay character. Finally I think there is an hunger among masculine non-heterosexual men to see themselves represented. This goes unrecognized since masculine gay men go unnoticed unless they self identify. Brokeback Mountain is no doubt appealing rural and middle America masculine gay white guys who have nothing in common with coastal upper middle-class urban effeminate gay elites. Much like how the crowd here on CA can easily relate to Chiron from Moonlight. This is not to say people are incapable of relating to or having empathy for someone who is unlike themselves but it's much easier when they are.
     
    ColumbusGuy, Dante and OckyDub dapped this.
  7. Cyrus-Brooks

    Cyrus-Brooks is a Featured MemberCyrus-Brooks The Black Vulcan
    Squad Leader Best Site Comments The 1000 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,134
    Daps Received:
    2,130
    Gender:
    Male
    Dating:
    In a Relationship
    ^^^^^^Bingo! You hit the nail on the motherfucking head!
    hes-right-you-know.jpg
    Any typical behavior or idea expressed by men who are masculine is quickly labeled as "hypermasculine" by feminists and effeminate gays. Especially when it's something they disapprove of. When often times they are just simply masculine behavior. The new catch phrase is "toxic-masculinity." Everything is now is toxic-masculinity. Next thing you know someone will publish article saying taking a piss standing up is "toxic-masculinity."
     
  8. OckyDub

    OckyDub is a Verified MemberOckyDub Fair Use Nigga....Fair Use
    Site Founder The 10000 Daps Club The 100 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    4,928
    Daps Received:
    10,945
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The 4th Dimension Is MINE!
    :umad::lawd:
     
  9. OckyDub

    OckyDub is a Verified MemberOckyDub Fair Use Nigga....Fair Use
    Site Founder The 10000 Daps Club The 100 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    4,928
    Daps Received:
    10,945
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The 4th Dimension Is MINE!
    I'm sitting here thinking....if Trevante Rhodes would have be seen on his back with his legs up in the air; could he have gotten away with it in this day and time like Will Smith in Six Degrees of Separation?

    [​IMG]
     
    mojoreece dapped this.
  10. Cyrus-Brooks

    Cyrus-Brooks is a Featured MemberCyrus-Brooks The Black Vulcan
    Squad Leader Best Site Comments The 1000 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,134
    Daps Received:
    2,130
    Gender:
    Male
    Dating:
    In a Relationship
    I'm gonna go out on the limb and say HELL NO. Straights especially, especially straight black people are notoriously uncomfortable with gay sex. Specifically sex between men. Lesbian sex doesn't count since most dudes are turned on by watching two women get it in even if they disapprove of homosexuality. Much of the commentary I've heard from straight black men even those that are "open minded" were nervous about when the "gay part" of the movie was going to occur. I think that is part of the reason why Moonlight was acceptable to non gay audiences was its lack of gay sex. Ironically the most explicit fucking we see is teenage Kevin(Jharrel Jerome) smashing some mystery chick from the back. The gayest scene in the movie is teenage Kevin kissing and giving Chiron a hand job. I think that's all a str8 black audience could handle. Anything more explicit than would've gotten an overwhelmingly negative reaction from black folks. An anal sex scene between adult Chiron and Kevin would've been too threatening and too much for them to handle. I think it's not an accident the 3rd chapter of the movie featuring Trevante Rhodes and Andre Holland the homoerotic vibes between Chiron and Kevin are present but understated. Which IMO actually works better because it emphasizes the emotional bond between the two even though they've been estranged since high school. It's safe to assume that Kevin did fuck Chiron. Barry Jenkins left that to our imagination which is why the movie ended like this.
    Ua6MbhW.gif
     
    OckyDub and mojoreece dapped this.
  11. Lancer

    Best Thread Creator The 1000 Daps Club

    Age:
    34
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    720
    Daps Received:
    1,055
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Minas Morgul
    Checkout 'London Spy', its very good.
     
  12. Jai

    Jai I love me a dark skinned chocolate bruthas.
    The 100 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2015
    Messages:
    527
    Daps Received:
    790
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    U.S.
    Orientation:
    Asexual
    Dating:
    Single
    Toxic masculinity is a new one to me. I've recently, started seeing it and really don't agree with what I've been seeing it plastered and defended against.

    I'm really confused by heterosexual black men and them being nervous when it comes to a gay scene? Straight black folks are so selfish sometimes. As much straight sex as I have seen in movies, you don't see me complaining about.

    Hm. I've seen most of those movies. Too Wong Foo is super funny. I didn't care for Brokeback Mountain. I do know.. I've never seen a black movie like it before. I've seen Asian and Latino films that hit high on the gay marks but not a single Black one that could be compared to Brokeback or at the very least a Black gay film similar to Monster's Ball or American Beauty.
     
    Cyrus-Brooks dapped this.
  13. Apollo

    Apollo Enemy of the Status Quo

    Age:
    38
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2016
    Messages:
    21
    Daps Received:
    40
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Outside of Boston
    Orientation:
    Gay
    Dating:
    Single
    yeah man, thanks for the suggestion. I'll have to go check it out on netflix
     
  14. jusrawb

    The 100 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2015
    Messages:
    260
    Daps Received:
    397
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    VA
    Orientation:
    Gay
    Dating:
    In a Relationship
    I'm Gay and I'm still trying to figure out what is gender nonconformity exactly. I think we need more Moonlight type characters, "regular guys", right now.
     
    Dante, mojoreece, OckyDub and 1 other person dapped this.
  15. Cyrus-Brooks

    Cyrus-Brooks is a Featured MemberCyrus-Brooks The Black Vulcan
    Squad Leader Best Site Comments The 1000 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,134
    Daps Received:
    2,130
    Gender:
    Male
    Dating:
    In a Relationship

    I think what they mean by "gender nonconforming" is effeminate men. Which is the default image for gay men in media.
    Like this guy for example
    tenor (2).gif
    I think @OckyDub would classify this as "gay cooning." This is nothing new or revolutionary despite what queer activist class would have us believe.
     
    jusrawb and OckyDub dapped this.
  16. Dante

    Dante https://www.gofundme.com/qv7v5dw
    The Great Debater The 1000 Daps Club

    Age:
    37
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Messages:
    769
    Daps Received:
    1,099
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Orientation:
    Homosexual
    Dating:
    Single
    Gender non-conforming is doing anything or projecting an external that goes against the grain of the social construct of male and female.
     
    Cyrus-Brooks, jusrawb and OckyDub dapped this.
  17. BlackguyExecutive

    BlackguyExecutive Former Diplomat, Current Opportunity Seeker
    Squad Leader Best Site Comments The 1000 Daps Club Supporter

    Age:
    32
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2015
    Messages:
    952
    Daps Received:
    2,158
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    World Traveller
    Orientation:
    Gay
    Dating:
    Married
    Look at all these Queer Studies and Queer Theory scholars on this thread. . .
    [​IMG]

    P.S. This comment was just a joke but in real talk, there is some deep analysis here that would be worthy of greater exploration in the nonheterosexual scholastic space.
     
    Cyrus-Brooks dapped this.
  18. OckyDub

    OckyDub is a Verified MemberOckyDub Fair Use Nigga....Fair Use
    Site Founder The 10000 Daps Club The 100 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    4,928
    Daps Received:
    10,945
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The 4th Dimension Is MINE!
    I just think men (mainly masculine leaning men) are beyond tired of being analyzed by women and fem leaning queer men who have no clue on what masculinity is or the natural behaviors of traditionally masculine men.

    Gender neutral, non-conforming, non-gender binary, etc all equals being more fem and getting further away from masculinity regardless of how its spun.

    They just seem to lump anything into a realm of toxic-hyper-masculinity when all a nigga did was fart.

    :dame:
     
    #18 OckyDub, Dec 18, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
  19. BlackguyExecutive

    BlackguyExecutive Former Diplomat, Current Opportunity Seeker
    Squad Leader Best Site Comments The 1000 Daps Club Supporter

    Age:
    32
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2015
    Messages:
    952
    Daps Received:
    2,158
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    World Traveller
    Orientation:
    Gay
    Dating:
    Married
    :hubie:
    I think part of the problem is that there is not counter-counter narrative. There is no debate among the queers and women who study this shit in a scholastic debate. If there was a scholar, with appropriate credentials who tried to argue your perspective they would be fighting people from all sides to include the heterosexuals. But I think if someone did they would actually make an original contribution to scholarship.
     
    Cyrus-Brooks and OckyDub dapped this.
  20. OckyDub

    OckyDub is a Verified MemberOckyDub Fair Use Nigga....Fair Use
    Site Founder The 10000 Daps Club The 100 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    4,928
    Daps Received:
    10,945
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The 4th Dimension Is MINE!
    Good point!.

    I do follow a couple of anti-feminist women online who make some fantastic arguments.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

Loading...