Holler If You Hear Me: Black and Gay in the Church

Discussion in 'Race, Religion, Science and Politics' started by Kouncelor, Nov 4, 2015.

?
  1. Absoulutely

  2. Not in the Black church

  3. Only in the Black Church

  4. Absolutely NOT

  5. I have no idea

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. DreG

    DreG is a Featured MemberDreG Art Heaux
    Squad Veteran Most Valuable Player The 1000 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2015
    Messages:
    2,290
    Daps Received:
    5,494
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Jxn
    I can deal more with a church that says "i disagree" when it comes to homosexuality and tries to back it up objectively more than I can deal with one that spews outright hate because "two mens is wrong".Like a difference of opinon type of thing .But usually churches try to advocate things I disagree with in general like staying in a failed marriage for the kids or stuff like that so I've more or less moved away from the institution.It feels like empty tradtions that people aren't sure why they follow.I have my own beliefs and spiritual practices,and feel I don't need the church(someone else's system of functioning) to further any of that .

    Short answer: No.If you are gay and believe in God that will be to radical to be accepted in the church as much as it will be to tell the church mothers you read Jiddu Kishnamurti .
     
  2. Cyrus-Brooks

    Cyrus-Brooks is a Featured MemberCyrus-Brooks The Black Vulcan
    Squad Leader Best Site Comments The 1000 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,167
    Daps Received:
    2,198
    Gender:
    Male
    Dating:
    In a Relationship
    Bravo!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  3. D'Elle Brothers

    D'Elle Brothers Squad Member

    Age:
    58
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Messages:
    35
    Daps Received:
    60
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Dating:
    Single
    Didn't you quote me saying that? Sexuality may not be the text or topic of the message every time I went to church. But again I believe I answered your question. Keep in mind as I mentioned earlier sexuality is rarely the topic of the message to the churches I have attended. Also I have not sat down with any of the pastors of those churches to find out what their beliefs are on sexuality. And if I don't have to hear when I walk through the door of the church I don't care. What would you do?
     
  4. Nick Delmacy

    Nick Delmacy is a Verified MemberNick Delmacy Da Architect
    Site Founder The 1000 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2013
    Messages:
    3,108
    Daps Received:
    10,023
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Orientation:
    Gay
    Dating:
    Not looking
    I guess my question more related to the fact that you said you go out of your want NOT to discuss or make known your sexuality or attraction to men because you feel like it would cause problems. That sounds to me like someone who DOES have an idea of what their beliefs on homosexuality are or would be.

    But no worries, not that big deal, was just honing in back to @Kouncelor original question since most people in the thread didn't responds to it.

    As for me, I no longer have these problems as I left the church and all religion back when I was 11-12 years old. Not due to sexuality, more due to it just not making sense. And when I questioned in Sunday School, the preachers would say "God works in mysterious ways." Then I discovered the library where I started to get the answers to the questions I had from centuries of work done by scientists.

    The last hurdle was feigning interest in religion to my mother. This lasted about 2 years before I stopped pretending and refused to go to church or pray or any of that. To her credit, she let me go my own path even though she was/is VERY religious.
     
    Cyrus-Brooks dapped this.
  5. D'Elle Brothers

    D'Elle Brothers Squad Member

    Age:
    58
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Messages:
    35
    Daps Received:
    60
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Dating:
    Single
    By the way have you found that church that DOES accept homosexuals? Have you attended one yourself, or become a member? I'm only gonna visit a church you recommend based on your personal experience since you suggested it. Will you answer my question? ?
     
  6. D'Elle Brothers

    D'Elle Brothers Squad Member

    Age:
    58
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Messages:
    35
    Daps Received:
    60
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Dating:
    Single
    Sorry I guess I over looked the other brother's question. Currently I am not a member of any church though I do attend some non denominational churches whom historically preach against homosexuality. But I don't hear that topic mentioned recently.
     
  7. SB3

    SB3 is a Featured MemberSB3
    Squad Veteran Most Valuable Player The 1000 Daps Club Supporter

    Age:
    35
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    3,099
    Daps Received:
    6,678
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    BK, NY
    Haven't seen the doc yet, but Idk why any1 would care to be in a place where they aren't 100%, consistently treated as an equal.

    I wasn't raised in the church, so that could be a part of it for me, but I rly think that its more abt the fact that i have a very idgaf attitude when it comes to the next man (or group of ppl)
     
    DreG and Cyrus-Brooks dapped this.
  8. Discordant

    Squad Leader The 100 Daps Club

    Age:
    32
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    305
    Daps Received:
    356
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    DMV
    There are lgbt affirming churches in various worship styles, especially if you live in or near a big city. Atlanta's got a couple of mega ones, and DC has three different congregations I'm aware of, all of various sizes.

    I can understand why some people choose to turn their backs on religion. But as @Kouncelor said, religion is a tool. It can be used to build or destroy, unfortunately we focus on the destruction people have perpetrated in its name. And to that, I say once again, the New Testament, which is the basis of Christianity as a religion, is about love and acceptance. Anyone not following that is not following the Word of God as intended.

    As an aside, I always find it interesting people have an issue with black Christians using the argument that it was used to oppress us. Europeans appropriated almost everything else from our culture, why can't Christianity be one of those things too? They've already proven that the Igbo tribe of Nigeria and several tribes in South Africa are genealogically Levite Jews, the priest caste of Israel. The first Christians were Jewish converts as well and geographically, a lot of the Old and New testaments took place in Africa. I don't think Christianity is any less black then I am.
     
    D'Elle Brothers and Kouncelor dapped this.
  9. Kouncelor

    The 100 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2015
    Messages:
    267
    Daps Received:
    324
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Dating:
    In a Relationship
    Brilliantly stated @Discordant. Your comments made me think about the one thing that really separates the Jews from the Christians. JESUS. The rest is just ritual and traditiion.

    On a different note:
    There is a lot of pain/hurt, hate, and emotional damage related many paoples experience with their churches. The natural response to that is to eliminate it.

    However, from many of the comments I still hear a lot of hurt and anger. What that tells me is leaving a church does not necessarily promote healing.

    Regardless of choices or beliefs. I do hope thae those individuals would actually deal with that pain and heal. That does mot mean going back to a church (Not trying to convert anyone), but walking around open sores and bruises can lead to infection.
     
    DC., D'Elle Brothers and Discordant dapped this.
  10. Cyrus-Brooks

    Cyrus-Brooks is a Featured MemberCyrus-Brooks The Black Vulcan
    Squad Leader Best Site Comments The 1000 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,167
    Daps Received:
    2,198
    Gender:
    Male
    Dating:
    In a Relationship
    Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are Semitic in origin. Semites are not black they're middle-easters who technically classified as white. Though some Semitic people did a "reverse migration" into Africa, other Semites went to Europe, Sephardic Jews stayed in the middle-east. Most African tribes in Western, central and southern Africa (which is where most African Americans origins are from) were "pagans" like most people of the world with their own gods and their own traditions. Christianity and Islam were promoted by white and Arabs as means to conquer and enslave us. All the events in the Bible and Qur'an take place in what is now called the middle-east and Arabia with the exception of Egypt and there is no record of the Jews ever being held captive in Egypt outside of the Bible and the ancient Egyptians were good about keeping records. The god of Israel isn't our god and painting him black still doesn't make him real.
     
    #45 Cyrus-Brooks, Nov 10, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2015
    I-Stay-Woke and alton dapped this.
  11. D'Elle Brothers

    D'Elle Brothers Squad Member

    Age:
    58
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Messages:
    35
    Daps Received:
    60
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Dating:
    Single

    I agree. I won't go back to where I've been hurt, I'll just find someplace else to worship.
     
    DC. dapped this.
  12. Sean

    The 100 Daps Club Supporter

    Age:
    38
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2015
    Messages:
    467
    Daps Received:
    697
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    DFW
    Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Dating:
    Single
    As a musician, my response is, yeah you can be accepted if you can sing, direct or play an instrument and follow the military's former DADT policy. Lol.

    I grew up in church and by the end of high school, I had developed a love-hate relationship with church, that evolved into a love-not-quite-hate- relationship with God. These days, as awful as it sounds, I'm usually only at church when I'm getting a paycheck (ie. playing my instrument) or when I feel the need to be inspired and uplifted by a bangin choir--and even then, I probably won't sit through the whole sermon. For me, it's been a combination of serving in church leadership as a musician and seeing the ugly, political side of church administration, personal "spiritual" battles (unrelated to sexuality), and hypocritical, hyperbolic, heretical rhetoric that church folks spew that has led me to be turned off and conclude that the church is not only NOT a place for gays, but for many rational-thinking people.

    I believe in God, but I tell people, I don't believe in God the way others do. I have my own relationship with my higher power and draw inspiration and hope through my faith in my higher power. I do not project my views, beliefs or opinions on others and don't judge others for theirs.
     
    #47 Sean, Nov 25, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2015
    DC. and Cyrus-Brooks dapped this.
  13. Day'lon

    Day'lon Lurker

    Age:
    38
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Messages:
    15
    Daps Received:
    25
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    OHIO
    Dating:
    In a Relationship
    Ain't that the truth! After my BSW, I will be working on my Masters in Ministry to provide services to the LGBT community and hopefully change the traditional church of thinking.
     
    DC., Kouncelor and mojoreece dapped this.
  14. Kouncelor

    The 100 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2015
    Messages:
    267
    Daps Received:
    324
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Dating:
    In a Relationship
    Yes.. I like that. I'm looking to do something similar in about 2 years, focusing more on a counseling type ministry for young boys/men coming of age in today's society.
     
  15. DC.

    DC.
    The 100 Daps Club

    Age:
    24
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Messages:
    78
    Daps Received:
    101
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Tampa
    Orientation:
    Gay
    Dating:
    Single
    So I've read through everyone's responses on here and I definitely feel everyone made some good points while others let us understand the mental place in which they are coming from which both allowed some deeper understanding.

    I will say as a gay Christian I consider myself spiritual not religious as religion does indeed tear people apart because religion is Institutionalized. However when one goes to church I feel you should somewhat hold yourself to the standards of that church or it becomes pointless. Like Why even go?

    In Romans 1:28, it says (in alleged referall) to homosexuality "God gave them up to a depraved mind just as they thought it not worthwhile to retain him in their minds"

    Now many would see that as a condemnation to homosexuality, but I don't. However I interpreted that verse as people who don't retain God in their knowledge and trust in him and abide by his laws and commandments make themselves susceptible to the evils of the world.

    Now we are all conservative. So I fail to see how such a word has garnered such a bad r-rap, because one of the definitions of conservative is holding a set of traditions or beliefs. I'm sure everyone here celebrates holidays correct? That's a tradition. Now just like how we don't like to stereotype all Muslims as terrorists, I don't think We should stereotype all Christians as hateful or bashing. Because people once pegged stereotypes towards gay men, that we could only be a token friend to some housewife, or fashion designer (nothing wrong with that because they make bread, so don't sleep on them, because Marc Jacobs bills are getting paid on time lol ) or that we were pedophiles in the making. However with time we've been able to show people how we are so much more! And that's a beautiful thing.

    In fact it's some of those very stereotypes that I'm sure that fueled the inspiration for this site? Am I wrong? Wasn't this site started As a venue and avenue for gay men of Maybe a different nature to express themselves and to show how gay men aren't always stereotypical and come in different shapes and sizes?

    Now I do understand the points being made about why go to a place where you seemingly can't talk about who you are? And that is a valid point because why would one embrace something that doesn't seem to embrace them? However if we want to take it back we could bring it back to slavery times. White people used the bible to justify slavery, however we both know that after a time they twisted the text to suit their purpose at the time. So how do we not know they're not doing the same thing now?........

    And for those who have experienced hurt with the church and/or spirituality I'm deeply sorry for that, because I know firsthand how grueling that can be, and I truly hope nothing but good healing can come for you. As it never serves as beneficial to stay in a place of hurt or resentment towards anything or anyone.

    Whenever I think of church I never think of going to a "black church" because sometimes I feel dressing something up In a form more appealing to us may not always allow us to grow or may block our blessings. Because what if your ultimate blessing is at a predominantly white church? But because you only frequent black churches you've missed out on your blessing? Same with dating if your so dead set on dating a certain race but the guy for you may be a white man, you'll end up always having dating woes. Lol although culturally speaking it's understandable at the same
    Time.

    Personally im not too keen on LGBT churches I feel they turn things into a free for all, where you can cuss someone out, go wild be Beserk and come back next Sunday and it's cool. And while churches should be accepting of who enters, I also feel it's there to hold you accountable and to help you grow. However I'm not gonna knock it till I try it. I hope this response served all of you guys well.

    Have a blessed day guys!
     
    Rhode dapped this.
  16. Deacon

    Deacon Lurker

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    17
    Daps Received:
    23
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Orientation:
    Gay
    Dating:
    Single
    The thing is we're already in the church, whether we're accepted is another issue.
     
    DC., Cyrus-Brooks and mojoreece dapped this.
  17. Tyroc

    Tyroc Deactivated Account

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,033
    Daps Received:
    2,156
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    I was raised in the Catholic Church when there were still abusive boney fingered nuns in long black habits and mincing Pedo Priests with full access to the young and soon to not be so innocent, so I learned about the hypocrisy and contradictions early.

    It was never talked about how the Priests were "different" and why I was never allowed to be an alter boy but I could see there was something and that same difference was in my Mother's friend Lucky, except he was not treated with the same quiet respect. He got a lot of scorn by everyone else and was associated with an F word that I was told repeatedly by my Father that I better never grow up and be whenever Lucky came around.

    They never hit too heavily on the topics of homosexuality at the churches I attended but as I got older and started having friends and relationships with people of various faiths, I found out how hateful and destructive some of their and my own religious learnings were.

    However there was some good that came with what I was taught.
    I do and am greatful for some of the basic tenets that I fully believe in and try to pass on like forgiveness for one. I believe that I would be worse off in life if I hadn't absorbed and learned to apply it to my daily life. Patience is another lesson that was pushed on me but it has grounded and taught me ways to cope with difficulties.

    I dislike a lot of what religion and churches and more specifically the teachers of hateful religious lessons bring but at the same time I'm not sure what kind of person I'd have been without the positive aspects.

    It does seem though that the bad as a whole outweighs the good.
     
    Cyrus-Brooks dapped this.
  18. Boaxy

    Boaxy SO FIERCE
    The 100 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Messages:
    161
    Daps Received:
    118
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Los Angeles, Ca. U.S.
    Orientation:
    Gay
    Dating:
    Single
    I remember when I first saw this documentary. It was very interesting to watch. Really good that BET came out with this. The guy that runs the shelter who I believe is a gay black Christian was really preaching on some true and sad shit.

    But anyways, I voted "Not in the Black church."

    I am a gay black man who is a Christian, so only take this from my experience.

    White/alternative and black Christian churches are completely different. People who understand, understand.

    Black churches are very valued. Everyone knows the congregation. Every Sunday it's same procedure and protocol.

    You'll have praise and worship time with music breaks, you'll have the church announcements, testimonies. The pastor will then give his sermon, and usually there will be food served afterwards.

    They are home among their own. It's like that.

    However with that, there are just some things they aren't going to accept. Being gay and open isn't one of them.

    Anti gay and queer messages are very common in sermons in black churches.

    I feel the black church, much like the black community, isn't as accepting with LGBT and queer issues as they should. So that's why it is the way it is, like that.

    You can be closeted, and not be officially apart of their congregation I suppose. Or just keep your sexuality to yourself or again just be closeted.

    Like I know many music administrators and choir directors in black churches are very much homosexual. I also seen a few trans men and women in black churches who are of course in that position. But yeah.

    Are there exceptions to the rule? I suppose they are. But for the most part, black churches are not okay with that.

    White/alternative/affirming Churches are more expansive with how they run their churches. You'll have guest speakers come every single week. There will be church events and groups. Things like that. It's kinda more open minded that way.

    They have separate groups and some even have like three different churches going on in the same hour. So it's crazy.

    Even apart of the main church, you would most likely be accepted. There are some topics they don't touch or judge on. Homosexuality and queer issues are one of them. They basically follow a different

    There will be more than likely a separate queer or affirming congregation or group that meets up as well.

    So that way, a queer Christian can congregate with them.

    Now are all white churches like this? Hell no. There are many closed minded and judgmental white churches that can go to an even further extent than black churches do. But for the most part, there are more white churches that accept queer followers, than black churches do.

    That's my opinion.
     
    #53 Boaxy, Dec 9, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
    Goldentree and Cyrus-Brooks dapped this.
  19. DFW Brutha

    The 100 Daps Club

    Age:
    37
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Messages:
    248
    Daps Received:
    299
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dallas-Fort Worth
    Dating:
    Single
    The music department would crumble without the sass and flare of...
    [​IMG]
     
    Boaxy and mojoreece dapped this.
  20. Xavier

    Xavier Lurker

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2018
    Messages:
    9
    Daps Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    There is no getting around the fact that the abrahamic religions' texts are deeply homophobic. If you say homosexuality is good, you are challenging the morals of the bible. Likewise if you say the bible is good, you are challenging the the morals of gay people. It seems like the only people who have a problem accepting this are gay christians.
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - Holler Hear Black Forum Date
Holler if you hear me Television and Web Series Dec 29, 2015
Hearing His Voice Before The First Date? Dating and Relationships Jun 16, 2018
Have you heard of this new dating app? It's called "Chappy" Dating and Relationships Jan 19, 2018
These Kids Hurt My Heart Music and Podcasts Dec 12, 2017
In a Heartbeat - Animated Short Film Movies and Shorts Sep 29, 2017

Share This Page

Loading...