To Anti-Bernie Folks: Where To Invade Next

Well the 'anti Bernie' stuff really does not matter now. Hillary has the nomination and Bernie can make the convention difficult, but it is what it is. It is either Trump or Hillary/Killary/Billary/The Devil/The Hooved One/whatever else you wanna call her. #Lesserofevils/thinkofSCOTUS

 

See I really agree with all of those things you listed. Every one. And yeah, I hope this period of time we are going through (Trumpism) is the step backwards, and we will have a two steps forward coming up. Bernie has brought up many issues that are important, and if Hillary wins she had better incorporate much of that into her policy. I will be following her closely(if she gets in) to see if she at least tries to do just that. Things like prison and judicial reform, taxes(the wealthy are paying the least % of their income in tax than at any point since World War Two), etc. If she fails, I will despise her more than Ocky does and she will be dead to me.

 

Look over there...its a gorilla giving a boy a wedgie. Nothing to see here.

 

Bernie Sanders is NOT a democrat and has no affinity to the Democratic Party or the values of majority of its members. Bernie Sanders is finally getting a chance to to be heard and to tell people about his 35 year long manifesto that he is been championing. At 74 years old, he has nothing to lose. If I were him I wouldn't get out, I would mostly definitely seize this opportunity because in all reality Bernie Sanders will never have a platform like he has right now again. Good for him. But he won't be the next president of the United States.

I am not a Bernie Supporter but that doesn't mean I am anti-Bernie. Its a false premise. Just like the headline of this thread. Our society is not a Prisoner's Dilemma. What bothers me primarily is that those particularly on my extreme left (I am a self-describe Liberal) have developed this short-sided, blinded by the hype, morally superior disposition that if you don't prescribe to Bernie's agenda in its entirety that you are somehow fallen into the morally inferior camp.

We have become quite the Buzzword culture. Before this election "Establishment" wasn't a thing and "Progressive" was a bad word.
I use to be a progressive warrior now all of my work supporting left of center causes is only granted partial credit because I think it is imperative that we look at the totality of the person who we elect as president. I am not Berniecrat because I still believe that the free-market is the best option. Ask anyone who lives in social-democracies (i.e., Sanders favorite Retort: Scandinavia) where they would rather open a business, 9 times out of 10 they would say the united states but I digress...with respect to where to invade next? That is rooted in a sentiment that doesn't not view the world as it is, an inherently anarchic, and real threats don't exist (i.e., terrorism, nuclear war) or fail to recognize that the United States is a Superpower) but yeah, go ahead and give Michael Moore your coins....

 

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*okay maybe this is a reference to Harambe and how people focus on stupid sh*t instead of the real issues? (Ockyspeak is a hard language to crack).

 

"European countries are much poorer countries..."

Okay I do have to say something about this. The nations usually cited for having these things have per capita incomes that are about equal to or above the US, including Norway and Sweden. Much of Northern and Western Europe is right up there with the US. Norway is up there because they have great oil wealth, but even much larger nations like Germany(80 million) France and the UK(about 60 million each) are in the top 25 nations on Earth-even Spain and Italy are in the top 30

But anyway we could do it alright-if the wealthy payed more of a fair share-they could pay more and still only pay a fraction of what the wealthy do in Europe. It is just a matter of wealthy Americans and greed, divide and conquer tactics, and hoodwinking the middle and lower middle class.

 

Actually in per capita terms we are not on the top. But we were 60 or so years ago by a long shot. In 1950 the United States accounted for HALF of all of the manufacturing on the planet. Why? All of our major competitors were ruined by war-they needed our goods, plus because of depression and war we had nearly 20 years of pent up domestic consumer demand. There were only two nations that made a lot of money during that war-The United States, and Argentina. This is what brought about the 'middle class boom' after the war, and we have been adjusting to new realities for quite some time now.

If you look at purchasing power parity (what your dollar could actually get you) when adjusted for inflation, etc. it peaked in the United States in 1972. That is when we peaked as a nation. The oil embargo, recessions and stagflation, and then Reagomics hit, and we have never recovered.

 

Yet you figured it out.

 

I'll be back in the morning for the post-primary fireworks. I just want to see if Sanders pulls a John Anderson/Ross Perot/Pat Buchanan/Ralph Nader...or not.

The SCOTUS watcher in me makes my balls shrivel up thinking Trump would have access to nominating Justices...but the evil cynic in me would love to see Bernie go all 3rd party with the Clinton machine going all out against him and his supporters....where are the Russo Brothers? I want to see THAT comic book movie!!

 

This campaign is full of hatred. The hatred spewing from Donald Trump's supporters and the hatred so many (like myself) have towards Hillary.

 

I would classify Bernie Supporters as having fervor not hatred. I'm only half snarky about Sanders going 3rd party. It would actually keep Clinton on her toes and get folks out of the two party dichotomies. But Sanders as an independent would only draw votes from her not Trump. John Anderson sucked off Carter, Perot from Bush Sr., Buchanan from Dole and Nader from Gore. Independents cut both ways. Sadly, the GOP has decided to go all Thelma and Louise on the right, "I love you Donald!" as they go over the cliff. So there are no intelligent Jack Kemp types that seem to be willing to challenge trump's bull. I think a four way POST convention conversation would be good for raising consciousness.

 

I'm about to watch it right now.

 

I'm not saying so far this movie is making me hate America...it just makes me hate Americans.

 

I've never watched the movie. I doubt I will.

But to answer the question, I say we invade Canada next. Those polite f*ckers and their hot Prime Minister and adorable queen inflicted upon this country the pestilence that is called "Justin Bieber". I say we rain fire and brimstone down on their unreasonably-clean streets and kinda-sorta-working single payer healthcare system. Pronto!!!! Why? Because...



Now, I'll go back to being semi-serious. (But seriously, we don't even need all of Canada- just the good parts-Vancouver, the corridor from Windsor through Toronto and Montreal. That's it. C'mon Hillary!)

Thank you for saying this. For a while I thought there were maybe 5 of us who realized that Bernie was an interloper who was having a great time campaigning, even if he didn't know what the hell he was doing.

Indeed. It comes from a place of privilege. And unfortunately, these same people will emphatically NOT vote for Hillary even though there is literally a monster at the gates. And that's how Donald Trump can win- neglect and high-minded privilege.

 

Even though I agree with Homer Simspon about this artist's box set only needing to be a single CD, never has a song been more lyrically appropriate for a candidate and his followers. (Casey Kasem voice): "This one goes out to all you Sandernistas working behind the counters at Starbucks (just a dusting of nutmeg on my latte, please)":

 

I think you have to use some perspective. I am not saying that the United States is the greatest country in the world because I believe that no country really holds that title. What I will say is that despite the considerable problems we face in the United States. We are only about 240 years old. We have amassed the greatest wealth, the most number of nobel prizes, ended two world wars, sparked innovation that is unmatched, assembled the largest military to literally be a global fighting force and we have done this in a non-homogeneous society. What separates America, and why people suggest that we are exceptional is become we have managed to do all of this by mixing cultures, races, and even socioeconomic statutes into one people. That doesn't mean we don't have our issues. All countries have issues.

With respect to poor countries, it is all relative. However, the State of California has a higher GDP than all of Scandinavia. The State of Florida or New York has a larger population than Finland, Norway, Sweden and the other nordic countries combined. We should have perspective. Its false to compare to the bunch. The United States is also a federalism system. States have rights and privileges. Most countries in Europe don't have that kind of system.,

 

Right now I think lefty Americans are experiencing the five stages of Grief. Bernie Supporters and his most progressive warriors will be in DENIAL. Then they will become ANGRY. Than they will attempt to BARGAIN. They will not get everything they want so the become DEPRESSED. Than they will learn to ACCEPT their new reality.

 

This mental gymnastics and excuses the American people make as to why we can't be 400 times better than what we currently are is ridiculous. The wealth gap is staggering and the woman who didn't care about it before the election season now has an epiphany and empathy.

Hillary supporters are shouting victory while over 55% of American taxes go to the military. Not Health Care not Education but the military. Do they think this percentage will decease of or increase under Hillary?

Hillary, the first female president (nothing new or ground breaking to the rest of the world btw) will stop police departments from legally confiscating your property (civil forfeiture) and selling it for profit to go to their budgets how?

What is her plan to close for profit prison institutions (who gave her money for years before she ran for queen) and reduce our legal slave population; most of whom work for pennies on the dollar and can't vote when they leave prison but still pay taxes (if they can find a job)?

How will she support the American workers while supporting trade deals that continue to ship jobs over seas while money is being funneled through the Clinton foundation?

...but many democrats, liberals and progressives actually think this woman is a democrat...why?

 

If we are going to take Canada, we might as well take the whole thing. We need the areas you mentioned, but also the maritimes-(they should be called the hard-i-times) and make them independent states with some increased tourism and all and some business ventures they would be fine and they would all be Democratic states-hell even Alberta would be a Democrat state (by our standards) and we need their mineral wealth-just rename it New Texas. Same for British Columbia(good weed and we can rape their forests instead of ours)...there would only be a few areas left so we might as well take the rest except Nunavut could be independent(and basically US controlled and a financial ward of the UN or something). Manitoba..well..we might as well take Winterpeg so Buffalo and MInneapolis could have somewhere else in the US to point to when it comes to hellish winters, and Saskatchewan would have increasing agricultural importance with climate change, and again by our standards those would still be blue states. Take the whole damn thing, and send those who complain to Europe.

 

I wish someone would do something about private prisons-like eliminate them. There are several up by Youngstown and nothing ever good comes from them-when they are in the news it is always for something bad-bad infested food, too dangerous, staff problems, health problems, etc. I don't care if they are cheaper-this is not an area where cost effectiveness should trump(no pun intended) anything else. How did that sh$t became legal? smh.

 

I'm not a Trump supporter but he's built hotels, casinos and golf courses but not one prison.

How much money did the Clintons collect from the private prison (slave) industry over the years and how much did Trump collect?

 

You have to look at the totality of Secretary Clinton record and recognize that most of the criticism you cite against her has been 20 years of systematic political attacks on her person for mostly political reasons. When she cited a vast right wing conspiracy. That is real. Its not imagined. Yet, she still stands. She is quite an effective politician.

The wealth gap is staggering but I don't think you complain when basketballer and footballers get 100 million contracts. You have to ask do you think that the government should be in charge of regulating wealth creation and depreciation? or should the market force those kinds of activities. We are poor consumers and we don't demand fairer enterprise. You probably shot at a chain grocer instead of a higher priced local grocer. Why? because the market forces you too because we like cheap good and services. Bernie Sanders wouldn't have fixed that and if he did it would be because he used government to force it down our throats. Last time I checked the government couldn't even get a healthcare website right. With respect to Prisons. Most of these laws that created our prison industrial complex happend at state and local levels with NO comment from the general public. Most people who are in jail in this country our in jail because of local and state laws not federal laws (which is the purview of the President). Instead of blaming Clinton you could blame your state legislatures and governors. ALL POLITICS IS LOCAL. Until we realize that we won't make progress. The kind of progress you're seeking.

WIth respect to Foundations and examine how much good the Clinton foundation has done, championing getting much needed ARV to HIV stricken developing world countries. If you think the Clinton Foundation is the problem I implore you to read the book DARK MONEY by Jane Mayer. I suspect the Clinton Foundation is a saint organization compared to the real culprits that continue to manufacture despair.

With respect to America's Military Industrial Complex. I would rather have seven fleets on our side vs China developing seven fleets. We pay a price for hegemony. Personally, I think we could use a shake up in the federal government. I think republicans are right when they say we should get rid of the Department of Education and return all that money to the States. States do a better job, local governments do a better job. But....yeah its Clinton's fault and she is a Democrat in name only and Bernie is this magical savior who clearly missed his moment. If didn't do a good enough job of convincing people that his path was right.

With respect to money in politics. EVERY INDUSTRY in our country has given to EVERY POLITICIAN. You are a fool if you think otherwise. Before I got into diplomacy, I worked in the private security industry. The owners of the corporation I worked for made a lot of money in the private prison industry was it right no, did they build prisons and support politicians who supported tougher crime laws yes. Was it illegal no. Was is immoral? Depends on who you ask. Trump used the TAX CODE to his advantage. Trump used Eminent domain laws to his advantage. Trump inherited money from his daddy and hardly worked for most of his declared wealth. These are legal issues that requires laws to be changed not political one. If you want to do something about any of the things I have written about you could start by supporting candidates (i.e., time, talents, and treasure) that are aligned with your values. Talk to your state legislator. Know who that person is because they are the ones that control this more so than any President. But I am just one guy ranting. I DIGRESS....I love you Ocky!!

 

@Ockydub I have a real talk question. Let explore this hypothetical. Let's say Cypher Avenue becomes mainstream and starts generating major sponsorship and advertisement revenues and your product makes you $1 Million dollars. Do you think that 50% of that should go to taxes would you be a good citizen and do your part because you believe in the fair share or do you think this site was your idea and you should reap its profits? What if this site grew and you could hire employees, how fair would you treat them? What would you do if the government came in to regulate your site? What would you expend to convince legislators not ro regulate your site?

 

As my first sentence stated, "This mental gymnastics and excuses the American people make as to why we can't be 400 times better than what we currently are is ridiculous."

This country needs a controlled burn. We continue to take 2 steps forward and 4 steps back.

 

Taxes (regardless of the percentage) should be used to help, grow, stimulate and advance the society/country.

If I'm a millionaire and the church of Cypher Avenue is prosperous yet the community I claim to serve is suffering and in disarray, then...

 

Is it hatred or is it distrust? Is it the same as the "hatred" you say you feel for Trump? I don't hate Clinton, but I do distrust her deeply. Almost all of the Democrats I work with/know here in Washington who do not support Clinton, feel that way because they have been burned by her before. The distrust may be visceral but it is no way equal to the feeling about Trumpt

 

I don't know yet...hate seems sexier.

 

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