If I’m Killed by the Police, Will My Black Gay Life Matter?

By Ockydub | Posted Aug 4 2015 | 36 Comments  

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As I often do, I was recently listening to African American talk radio and the host was reflecting on the death Eric Garner. It was approaching the anniversary of his murder and the family settling with the state of New York for 5.9 million dollars. This settlement and sober anniversary came on the heels of the Supreme Court having ruled in favor of Marriage Equality in previous weeks.

A caller (whom I could tell was an older gentleman) called in to voice his anger over the Garner’s family settlement and the actions of the police. In the process of voicing his dismay, out of the blue he stated (paraphrasing) “the Supreme Court has let these sissies get married and black people getting killed in the streets.” He made a couple of more “sissy” references before the host disconnected. I could tell something was going on with the host in the studio but would discover after the next caller what was transpiring behind the scenes.

The very next caller made an excellent point about how not all black people’s struggles are the same. In essence; depending on your circumstances and environment your struggles will be different. He made this point to say that we still have common struggles that impact people of color and those should be the ones we unit against. This very simple point in addition to the older caller, struck-a-chord with me.

After the break the host apologized for the caller’s “sissy” remarks. He stated he was attempting to censor out the offending remarks and apologized if he failed to catch them. This is something that he hasn’t had to do before and was slow on the technicalities of achieving it while on air. By this time, I had already called the show and was on hold awaiting my turn to speak. From previous shows I knew the host to be tolerant or accepting of LGBT peoples and marriage equality.

When it was my turn to speak, I thanked the host for taking my call and begin to give him a brief background on myself before moving on to my points.

I summarized:

I was in my late 30’s, almost debt free, gainfully employed, pay my taxes and own my home. The host then interrupted stating, “you sound like a responsible brother and got you stuff together.” I continued by saying even though I don’t fully embraced the term “gay” but for conversation and to put a label on it, I’m gay and have been with my partner going on seven years. He is a Gulf War vet who suffers from PTSD and other military related ailments. He is a former Maryland police officer, has owned his own business and has done some contracting work in conjunction as it relates to national security.

I then told him about how I’ve lived in the south my whole life from Virginia to North and South Carolina while currently living in Georgia. I gave my respects on air to Eric Garner’s family and told him how in 2001 my female cousin was killed by the police in Hampton, VA after a police chase that begin when an unmarked and unidentifiable police car started aggressively following her.

Dash cam video showed when boxed in, she drove her car forward and reversed into the two patrol vehicles (a capital crime in Virginia). Viewed as aggressive and fearing for their life, the officers shot into the driver seat, hitting her four times in the chest. A grand jury did not indicted the officers and cleared them of all wrong doing. Citizens were outraged and Jessie Jackson appeared at rallies while her family hired the Johnny Cochran’s law firm to sue the city for millions. Due to little evidence of civil rights violations, the case was dropped.

My question to the host; “Living in the south I have experienced racism from White people. All the anti-homosexual sentiments or homophobia I have experienced has been from Black people. If I’m shot down by the police, will my black gay life matter? Or will black men just say “oh well, he was a sissy so who cares?” Will black women say “oh well, he was a waste of a black man anyway.”

The host gave an impassioned response, which I really appreciated, but I already knew he would. I called in not to hear his response but to pose my question over the airwaves to the listening audience.

As the caller before me suggested, my struggles were different then my female cousin who was killed by police. While she struggled with drugs, raising a daughter, her daughter’s father and previous encounters with the legal system; I can trace many of my struggles (up into my 20’s) directly to my homosexuality. At the time, anti-homosexual attitudes permeated throughout the black church and community. Yes it has lessened but it’s still very much present.

By default my homosexuality made me an abomination, effeminate, weak, not a real man, wanting to be woman, a pedophile, a weirdo, and a queer, whose faggot soul was to burn in hell. None of these things were true but this is what I heard throughout my surrounding environments from 3 years of age up into my 20’s.

Even though I have occasionally suffered some bulling, I was never out-right bashed. Regardless of my masculine leaning presence, I couldn’t shield my eyes and ears from the anti-gay messages and stance the world around me put into the atmosphere.

At the intersection of racism and homophobia exist many African American LGBT peoples who look to and seek comfort in the African American community. There may be progressive political correctness support in public but from many in pulpits, around dinner tables and in barber shops, black homosexuality is one of many cancers that helps to keep the community weak and un-unified. I wonder if some blacks who are anti-gay but supporters of the Black Lives Matter movement are aware that many Black Lives Matter activists are also LGBT activists and in some cases LGBT themselves. I wonder do anti-gay blacks know LGBT peoples of color face the same racist discriminations and oppressions they do but for some, it’s intensified because they are outwardly or visibly lesbian, gay or transgender.

If a video recording was released showing the police brutalizing me and its known that I’m a homosexual man, will it be shown across popular white gay media and websites, condemned with outrage the same as when white LGBT peoples are harassed and gay bashed by homophobes? If the police kill me and my sexuality is known, will #blacktwitter react in anger and spread the call for multi-city protests via social media with #ockywilliams? Will Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton stand at the podium with other black clergy decrying my death at the hands of police with my sobbing mother and my spouse as a back drop?

I really want to believe my black gay life will matter but have to wonder will it be marginalized due to my sexuality just as with Bayard Rustin during the Civil Rights movement.

 

 

 

About the Author
Ockydub

Octavius is a founder and editor of Cypher Avenue. He's here to help speak for us and show the world that masculine gay / bisexual men of color are not a part of the stereotypical gay normal that is seen and fed to the masses. No...we are a distinct breed, filled with character and pride. Cypher Avenue is here to show the world how we are different.

   
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36 Comments Feel Free To Join The Cypher.

  1. keepyochinup | August 4th, 2015
    +3

    Black LGBT lives were never on the table. #sorrynotsorry

    I always find it funny how some black people seem to find gay rights and black rights to be mutually exclusive. Gay rights is a white people thing in their minds. Yes, the gay community does have plenty of race issues…but black LGBT people do exist, and it’s not some kind of tactic used by the white man to weaken the black man even further (seen that one on Facebook comments sections way too often).

    Wonder what it’ll take for the black community as a whole to stop the erasure of LGBT lives. There are plenty of trans men and women of color that are attacked each year for simply being who they are, often by members of the black community. Nationwide news coverage? Not for those stupid f*gs. /sarcasm

    So yes, I’d say our lives don’t matter in that movement. Yet. Maybe in a couple years or decades? Who knows. It’s quite clear to me, though, that the deep religious roots embedded in the black community as a result of cultural destruction by white power plays a huge part in this.

    #allblacklivesmatter

  2. hannibal
    Hannibal | August 4th, 2015
    +2

    I’m a gay black man. In death I shall be acknowledged as such.

  3. BlackguyExecutive | August 5th, 2015
    0

    I think that Black lives matter and gay lives matter but the forces behind the movements don’t see any connection between the two. For example, safety is a concern for the LGBT movement but its mostly about money (Equal standings in life). For the black lives matter movement is about equal security in life with standing coming after.

    The problem with both movements is endemic of plight of trans persons of color. The murders and killings and bigotry of trans people is drastically more alarming than black men being killed by police or white men being denied some kind of “right” yet there is silence.

    Laurence-Fishburne.gif

  4. elg | August 6th, 2015
    +1

    Ocky, glad you called an African American talk radio show and told your personal story about being a black gay/homosexual man and posed the question “do black gay lives matter” to the host and his listening audience. Maybe some black gay man or boy in the listening audience heard you and was inspired to hold his head up just a little bit higher. Perhaps, a black gay man or boy will be inspired to do what you did: tell his story.

    “Activism” takes many forms, small and large, and your call to the radio show took courage: someone who knows you, but doesn’t know your sexual orientation, might have recognized your voice. I don’t know if this is the first time you’ve done something like this but if it is you now know that the sky didn’t fall in and your world didn’t come to an end.

    White LGBT people have fought against homophobia in their communities for decades and it has paid off in recent years especially under the Obama administration. It is long overdue for black LGBT people, especially those who “look to and seek comfort” in black communities, to speak out against black homophobia. How else can straight black people (whether homophobic or not) know what the concerns of black LGBT people are?

    Discussing LGBT issues with a highly skeptical (and homophobic) straight black audience will be stressful, to say the least, but it HAS to be done and black LGBT people are the only ones who can do it. It is the only way that change in black communities on this issue can happen. Keep up the good work.

  5. SB3000 | August 6th, 2015
    0

    Just wondering, did any of the following callers acknowledge ur question/comments?

    • Ocky Williams | August 8th, 2015
      0

      Nope…just one caller said to the host later in the show “I see you still pandering to the homosexuals.”

  6. Kevin | August 7th, 2015
    0

    Bravo for calling and speaking your truth to power. I reposted to my FB wall.

  7. Cyrus-Brooks
    Cyrus Brooks | August 11th, 2015
    0

    I think we all know the lives of gay black people don’t really matter to most straight black people.

  8. Aejae
    Aejae | August 29th, 2015
    0

    I’ve asked myself the title of this article a couple of months ago. I would want people to not only know about my homosexuality, but also be respectful of it. Me being black is indeed the first thing that would be recognized, but there’s more to me than my skin color.

  9. NickAuzenneNOLA
    NickAuzenne | September 10th, 2015
    0

    Intersectionality is key here. There are black gay and trans people so then which identifying marker matters most when defending those lives? Is my blackness not a catalyst to demand justice for my life unjustly being taken if you knew my sexuality was one you didn’t agree with would be what I would ask hetero folks. If the 20 trans murders since 1/2015 not being acknowledged in our communities or the thousands of gay murders going over looked for years now even saying “well if the weren’t…” as justification are any indicator I’d say… NAH!

  10. Aejae
    Aejae | July 10th, 2016
    0

    I really do symphathise with you on this, because during my process of taking in the deaths of Alton and Philando, I too also thought about my black gay life being just as important if I were to also have my life unfairly taken by the police. Although I've never experience racism before, I really dealt with homophobia by my own people of color, and it wasn't a good feeling. However, now that I'm a little older, I can say that my black life should matter just as the next black man. But for me, it's good to know that there are of course black gay people besides myself who exist. #DualJusticeMovement

  11. BlackguyExecutive
    BlackguyExecutive | July 11th, 2016
    0
    Ockydub

    [​IMG]

    As I often do, I was recently listening to African American talk radio and the host was reflecting on the death Eric Garner. It was approaching the anniversary of his murder and the family settling with the state of New York for 5.9 million dollars. This settlement and sober anniversary came on the heels of the Supreme Court having ruled in favor of Marriage Equality in previous weeks.

    A caller (whom I could tell was an older gentleman) called in to voice his anger over the Garner’s family settlement and the actions of the police. In the process of voicing his dismay, out of the blue he stated (paraphrasing) “the Supreme Court has let these sissies get married and black people getting killed in the streets.” He made a couple of more “sissy” references before the host disconnected. I could tell something was going on with the host in the studio but would discover after the next caller what was transpiring behind the scenes.

    The very next caller made an excellent point about how not all black people’s struggles are the same. In essence; depending on your circumstances and environment your struggles will be different. He made this point to say that we still have common struggles that impact people of color and those should be the ones we unit against. This very simple point in addition to the older caller, struck-a-chord with me.

    After the break the host apologized for the caller’s “sissy” remarks. He stated he was attempting to censor out the offending remarks and apologized if he failed to catch them. This is something that he hasn’t had to do before and was slow on the technicalities of achieving it while on air. By this time, I had already called the show and was on hold awaiting my turn to speak. From previous shows I knew the host to be tolerant or accepting of LGBT peoples and marriage equality.

    When it was my turn to speak, I thanked the host for taking my call and begin to give him a brief background on myself before moving on to my points.

    I summarized:

    I was in my late 30’s, almost debt free, gainfully employed, pay my taxes and own my home. The host then interrupted stating, “you sound like a responsible brother and got you stuff together.” I continued by saying even though I don’t fully embraced the term “gay” but for conversation and to put a label on it, I’m gay and have been with my partner going on seven years. He is a Gulf War vet who suffers from PTSD and other military related ailments. He is a former Maryland police officer, has owned his own business and has done some contracting work in conjunction as it relates to national security.

    I then told him about how I’ve lived in the south my whole life from Virginia to North and South Carolina while currently living in Georgia. I gave my respects on air to Eric Garner’s family and told him how in 2001 my female cousin was killed by the police in Hampton, VA after a police chase that begin when an unmarked and unidentifiable police car started aggressively following her.

    Dash cam video showed when boxed in, she drove her car forward and reversed into the two patrol vehicles (a capital crime in Virginia). Viewed as aggressive and fearing for their life, the officers shot into the driver seat, hitting her four times in the chest. A grand jury did not indicted the officers and cleared them of all wrong doing. Citizens were outraged and Jessie Jackson appeared at rallies while her family hired the Johnny Cochran’s law firm to sue the city for millions. Due to little evidence of civil rights violations, the case was dropped.

    My question to the host; “Living in the south I have experienced racism from White people. All the anti-homosexual sentiments or homophobia I have experienced has been from Black people. If I’m shot down by the police, will my black gay life matter? Or will black men just say “oh well, he was a sissy so who cares?” Will black women say “oh well, he was a waste of a black man anyway.”

    The host gave an impassioned response, which I really appreciated, but I already knew he would. I called in not to hear his response but to pose my question over the airwaves to the listening audience.

    As the caller before me suggested, my struggles were different then my female cousin who was killed by police. While she struggled with drugs, raising a daughter, her daughter’s father and previous encounters with the legal system; I can trace many of my struggles (up into my 20’s) directly to my homosexuality. At the time, anti-homosexual attitudes permeated throughout the black church and community. Yes it has lessened but it’s still very much present.

    By default my homosexuality made me an abomination, effeminate, weak, not a real man, wanting to be woman, a pedophile, a weirdo, and a queer, whose f**got soul was to burn in hell. None of these things were true but this is what I heard throughout my surrounding environments from 3 years of age up into my 20’s.

    Even though I have occasionally suffered some bulling, I was never out-right bashed. Regardless of my masculine leaning presence, I couldn’t shield my eyes and ears from the anti-gay messages and stance the world around me put into the atmosphere.

    At the intersection of racism and homophobia exist many African American LGBT peoples who look to and seek comfort in the African American community. There may be progressive political correctness support in public but from many in pulpits, around dinner tables and in barber shops, black homosexuality is one of many cancers that helps to keep the community weak and un-unified. I wonder if some blacks who are anti-gay but supporters of the Black Lives Matter movement are aware that many Black Lives Matter activists are also LGBT activists and in some cases LGBT themselves. I wonder do anti-gay blacks know LGBT peoples of color face the same racist discriminations and oppressions they do but for some, it’s intensified because they are outwardly or visibly lesbian, gay or transgender.

    If a video recording was released showing the police brutalizing me and its known that I’m a homosexual man, will it be shown across popular white gay media and websites, condemned with outrage the same as when white LGBT peoples are harassed and gay bashed by homophobes? If the police kill me and my sexuality is known, will #blacktwitter react in anger and spread the call for multi-city protests via social media with #ockywilliams? Will Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton stand at the podium with other black clergy decrying my death at the hands of police with my sobbing mother and my spouse as a back drop?

    I really want to believe my black gay life will matter but have to wonder will it be marginalized due to my sexuality just as with Bayard Rustin during the Civil Rights movement.

    Read the whole post here.

    I go back and forth on this one because there is a great deal of intersectionality within the Black Lives Matter movement. I mean the hashtag was created by two queer women (those are they terms). Although I do think they gayness and is often downplayed. But some of BLM most prominent voices of of black gay men and lesbian women.

    I think what often happens particularly for black gay people is that we don't have the luxury like the white gays to be gay first. We are always BLACK first, gay second. So when police violence happens to us, it is seen as black first.

  12. Ockydub
    Ockydub | July 11th, 2016
    0
    BlackguyExecutive

    I think what often happens particularly for black gay people is that we don't have the luxury like the white gays to be gay first. We are always BLACK first, gay second. So when police violence happens to us, it is seen as black first.

    The point of this is not how whites or police see us…its how will Blacks respond once your sexuality is discovered after the fact.

  13. Nick Delmacy
    Nick Delmacy | July 11th, 2016
    0

  14. BlackguyExecutive
    BlackguyExecutive | July 11th, 2016
    0
    Nick Delmacy

    Don't read the comment section. Although, I hate that we use twitter as a gauge of sentiment. There is so much hyperbole on twitter and FB. Reading the comment section makes me think considerably disappointed.

  15. Ockydub
    Ockydub | July 11th, 2016
    0
    BlackguyExecutive

    Don't read the comment section. Although, I hate that we use twitter as a gauge of sentiment. There is so much hyperbole on twitter and FB. Reading the comment section makes me think considerably disappointed.

    So don't believe my lying eyes?

    This hyperbole is coming from real people, showing their opinions and sentiments. Are you saying anti-homosexual Black heterosexual men are lying when they profess their anti-homosexual stance simply because its on social media or in a comments section?

  16. Rico
    Rico | July 11th, 2016
    0
    Nick Delmacy

    WARNING: Lunch hour break rant (lol)

    Unfortunately for BLM, from the start, they were undisciplined, had no organization, and lacked coherent strategy and mission other than visceral outbreaks and the occasional liberation of HDTVs from storefronts. Therefore, like the Tea Party (which was initially moderate and finically focused as created by its CNBC moderator) everything vile and evil will find its way into its so called movement and they don't seem to care. We're only a few days up from Dallas events and I actually saw some BLM nikkas on the local Chicago need this morning consigning the assassinations.

    I'm not surprised to see the usual anti-gay hoteps and their comments in social media as the black communities have allowed cultural leaders to nurse that "gays are imperialists" shyt since H. Rap Brown, Stokely Carmichael, and Eldridge Cleaver equated homophobia as noble attempts to protect fragile black masculinity.

    Sadly, I think McKeeson is just a gay, young version of Sharpton and Jesse Jackson (Jr or Sr); that is, I believe his motivations are narcissistic and not entirely cause based. A Perez Hilton of protest. He's inserted himself as a carpetbagger in a mayor's race for which he had no training or understanding for the needs or aspirations of the city's citizens (Baltimore); and seems to enjoying his new lucrative life hobnobbing with the usual white liberal elite suspects (the talking loud sayin' nothin' crowd), e.g. Aspen Institute, talk shows, etc. A soon-to-be permanent fixture for The Official Black Viewpoint (as if all black people were cognitively conjoined siblings) on all the news squawk shows along with Ann Coulter, Newt Gingrich, John MCain, Michael Eric Dyson, Cornel West et al.

    Obviously we're against police brutality and abuse of authority against black people. But really, does BLM think we're supposed to all enjoy the lawless mob action society they are helping to create (along with the NRA and their post-Clinton Administration "jackboot thug" rhetoric) and live without proper law enforcement? I don't have familiarity with Dallas as a citizen, only my occasional visits on work details, but I like where the Police Chief is going with his comments:

    Dallas Police Chief 'We're Asking Cops To Do Too Much In This Country'

    I don't live there so I don't know if his past actions match his rhetoric. But I agree with the sentiment that politicians have f**ked up everything with their boneheaded social policies and then expect police to do everything they WERE NEVER CREATED to deal with the fallouti.e. social work, mentoring to youth, mental health and homeless interventions, etc.

  17. Ockydub
    Ockydub | July 11th, 2016
    0
    Rico

    But really, does BLM think we're supposed to all enjoy the lawless mob action society they are helping to create

    I was feeling your point of view until this one statement. Anytime there is a large group of people together in celebration or in protest, there will be those who act out violently. This is with any race. Occupy to BLM have rallied and marched numerous times in ATL over the years with out any mob problems.

  18. Rico
    Rico | July 11th, 2016
    0
    Ockydub

    I was feeling your point of view until this one statement. Anytime there is a large group of people together in celebration or in protest, there will be those who act out violently. This is with any race. Occupy to BLM have rallied and marched numerous times in ATL over the years with out any mob problems.

    But that's the problem. I'm sure the vast majority of protestors were/are peaceful, but there are elements that are violent, disruptive, hostile. Look at Dr. King's or Cesar Chavez's movements: organized, clearly defined leaders, unified message across elements and voices. A social movement that is the protest equivalent of a band of nomads like a Mad Max gathering is no movement at all. So, they will never accomplish anything of substance because there is no programmatic structure or center. To paraphrase St. Paul in the NT, "If I appear to be all things to all peoples then I have no hope of saving some."

  19. Nick Delmacy
    Nick Delmacy | July 11th, 2016
    0
    Rico

    But that's the problem. I'm sure the vast majority of protestors were/are peaceful, but there are elements that are violent, disruptive, hostile. Look at Dr. King's or Cesar Chavez's movements: organized, clearly defined leaders, unified message across elements and voices. A social movement that is the protest equivalent of a band of nomads like a Mad Max gathering is no movement at all. So, they will never accomplish anything of substance because there is no programmatic structure or center. To paraphrase St. Paul in the NT, "If I appear to be all things to all peoples then I have no hope of saving some."

    Right. It's like these people don't understand what their "No Justice, No Peace" and "We're At War" and "f**k the Police" chants actually mean. Unfortunately that Michah Johnson dude took those words literally.

  20. Rico
    Rico | July 11th, 2016
    0
    Nick Delmacy

    Right. It's like these people don't understand what their "No Justice, No Peace" and "We're At War" and "f**k the Police" chants actually mean. Unfortunately that Michah Johnson dude took those words literally.

    That's all I'm saying. If you have no stated mission, charter, etc. then be prepared for whatever nonsense gets done in your name. That's like you and Ock giving website admin privileges to all of us with no caveats or directions and then being shocked to find out we're selling illegal drugs and bootleg movies from CA. Well, what would you expect at a free-for-all?

    Take for example, Dr. King and SCLC. Organized, structured, planned. Fifty years later, people are forced to speak about the Washington March in glowing terms even if they don't like it. The Black Panthers, young radicals, et al didn't like the King program but at least they knew what they didn't agree with. With our parents time (grandparents for the youngest CA squad) they knew EXACTLY where SCLC, CORE, NUL, NAACP, SNCC, Black Panthers, Nation of Islam, hell, everybody stood! Therefore, you could join/avoid accordingly (my mother was in CORE). You wouldn't be at an Elijah Muhammad rally talking about "let's get us some pork chops and some white chicks"; or at a SCLC meeting talking about "Whitey is the devil, black folks need a separate country."

    Yeah, I know, everybody thought they could run a social movement like social media, with a hashtag for the masses, but that utopian Bernie Sanders socialist shyt doesn't work in real life. You lie down with dogs, expect to be flea bitten.

  21. Ockydub
    Ockydub | July 11th, 2016
    0
    Rico

    That's all I'm saying. If you have no stated mission, charter, etc.

    I agree about not having stated heads or approved leaders; however there is a stated mission and has been one for as long as I can remember. It's packaged up all nice and neat for anyone to share and download the materials.

    Why do people choose to ignore it and act as if it doesn't exist?

  22. ColumbusGuy
    ColumbusGuy | July 11th, 2016
    0
    Ockydub

    I agree about not having stated heads or approved leaders; however there is a stated mission and has been one for as long as I can remember. It's packaged up all nice and neat for anyone to share and download the materials.

    Why do people choose to ignore it and act as if it doesn't exist?

    If you have a mission, part of that mission is letting people know about what the mission is really all about. You have to deliver to them-you can't expect people to 'look it up on the internet and download' on their own, especially if you are not even telling them to do even that. The onus is on you.

    *applauds for you calling into that show, and my condolences regarding your sister-that is awful what happened.

  23. Rico
    Rico | July 11th, 2016
    0
    Ockydub

    I agree about not having stated heads or approved leaders; however there is a stated mission and has been one for as long as I can remember. It's packaged up all nice and neat for anyone to share and download the materials.

    Why do people choose to ignore it and act as if it doesn't exist?

    I looked at their site based on your comment…I like them EVEN LESS now. lol

    Reads like a college freshman that thinks he's the first one on Earth to discover Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn and Das Kapital. I'm through with the comments, but I'll throw them a bone. The website DOES incorporate LGBT awareness:
    "Black queer and trans folks bear a unique burden from a hetero-patriarchal society that disposes of us like garbage and simultaneously fetishizes us and profits off of us, and that is state violence."

    Most violence against gays is individual, cultural and religious based, though, in the US. Outside the US, is more state-sanctioned…

  24. Ockydub
    Ockydub | July 11th, 2016
    0
    ColumbusGuy

    If you have a mission, part of that mission is letting people know about what the mission is really all about. You have to deliver to them-you can't expect people to 'look it up on the internet and download' on their own, especially if you are not even telling them to do even that. The onus is on you.

    *applauds for you calling into that show, and my condolences regarding your cousin-that is awful what happened.

    I heard and understood their message when the group emerged. They have constantly been on MSM providing their message and demands.

    If one doesn't know the who, what, whens and wheres of BLM they don't really want to know nor care.

  25. ColumbusGuy
    ColumbusGuy | July 11th, 2016
    0
    Ockydub

    I heard and understood their message when the group emerged. They have constantly been on MSM providing their message and demands.

    If one doesn't know the who, what, whens and wheres of BLM they don't really want to know nor care.

    Of course you have-you are a very concerned party with a vested interest. Hell many blacks don't know what BLM really wants. And that is the wrong attitude to take, especially when blacks are twelve percent of the population. JHMO. Who has the time to research the who, what, whens and wheres of an organization? Maybe if the organization itself was repeatedly saying to the public(not MSM)-the PUBLIC what they really want and engaged the public with some of the specifics(like body cams on all police officers) they would be better understood.

    They don't need your support-they know they have it-they need the support of the average Joe to push their legislators to make change. How many members of Congress were black when Civil Rights legislation was passed in the 60's????

    Also I disagree about what they have been doing on MSM-I think most people see this when demonstrations are going on, and are seeing more 'protesting' than any articulation of what exactly BLM is and wants to have happen. Why do you think so many people ask 'What do they mean? and 'well all lives matter'?-because they do not know the message. What they are doing in trying to get 'and understood message and meaning' across is failing and they need to change things regarding that or continue to be misunderstood and suffer from that misunderstanding

    Believe me, there are plenty of people working to see that BLM is understood alright-understood to be a domestic terrorist organization. They are not working/existing in a vacuum-there are strong forces at work against them. It is vital IMO for them to be understood by more people to avoid being demonized(which is happening right now).

  26. Ockydub
    Ockydub | July 11th, 2016
    0
    Rico

    I looked at their site based on your comment…I like them EVEN LESS now. lol.

    Most if not all movements have those who dislike them even though they benefit from the rewards. No different here.

    BLM and the protest that followed FORCED the conversation on race, institutionalized racism, prison/justice system and police brutality into the current MSM conversation. So much so for the first time in my living memory, these problems that heavily impact communities of color were constantly brought up in Democratic Presidential primaries.

    While there maybe short comings and I do have my personal opinions (as with any group or organizations) I give admiration and much respect to activist and organizers for equality and justice.
    :salute:

  27. Ockydub
    Ockydub | July 11th, 2016
    0
    ColumbusGuy

    "like body cams on all police officers) they would be better understood."

    I've heard them say this in conjunction with other things on cable MSM

    ColumbusGuy

    "they need the support of the average Joe to push their legislators to make change.

    They do, which is way I stated I have my personal opinions about what I feel is the BLM short comings.

    Nonetheless, attempting to get support from those who will never support anything that's darker then white is pointless wasted energy. Most folks (both black and white) give either answers based on non-facts OR superficial reasons (they don't like that [email protected]@ot in the blue vest) as to why they dislike BLM.

    At it's core the message has been simple and always been the same. End police brutality, unfair treatment, racial profiling and unjust killings of unarmed people of color by tax paid civil servants (cops).

    If folks can't get on board with this simple statement/request…. FUK'EM

  28. ColumbusGuy
    ColumbusGuy | July 11th, 2016
    0
    Ockydub

    I've heard them say this in conjunction with other things on cable MSM

    They do, which is way I stated I have my personal opinions about what I feel is the BLM short comings.

    Nonetheless, attempting to get support from those who will never support anything that's darker then white is pointless wasted energy. Most folks (both black and white) give either answers based on non-facts OR superficial reasons as to why they dislike BLM.

    At it's core the message has been simple and always been the same. End police brutality, unfair treatment, racial profiling and unjust killings of unarmed people of color by tax paid civil servants (cops).

    If folks can't get on board with this simple statement/request…. FUK'EM

    I don't think most voters are of the 'never support anything darker than white mindset'(look at Obama), but most voters ARE relatively simple minded really and need to have very simple concepts repeated to them over and over unfortunately. The message needs to be clear, focused, pared down, simple and understandable, and repeated endlessly smh.

    They are doing some thing right of course-by constantly focusing attention(and video) on these occurrences, and making sure things stay 'fresh' with protesting, they are kind of doing what the pics and video back in the day of the police dogs and waterhoses did. Like that pic going around of the small black woman facing what appears to be two members of the military ready for war(but just two police officers). These images and video have great impact and this is making a difference and keeping it in the news for longer periods is making a difference.

    *There are a variety of groups of all sorts who think the police are out of control and are turning into a paramilitary force. If they could stomach it, they could have some unlikely allies in getting some of their demands about the police met.

  29. Rico
    Rico | July 12th, 2016
    0
    Ockydub

    Most if not all movements have those who dislike them even though they benefit from the rewards. No different here.

    BLM and the protest that followed FORCED the conversation on race, institutionalized racism, prison/justice system and police brutality into the current MSM conversation. So much so for the first time in my living memory, these problems that heavily impact communities of color were constantly brought up in Democratic Presidential primaries.

    While there maybe short comings and I do have my personal opinions (as with any group or organizations) I give admiration and much respect to activist and organizers for equality and justice.
    :salute:

    Bruh, I've been around long enough to see a lot of racial issues "brought up in Democratic Primaries"…and then always casually ignored or tossed out altogether; "Benign Neglect" as Democratic Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan called it. So, I'm not impressed with rhetoric without substantive action. The DNC is trying to stave off voter ambivalence for November, so their words are slightly supportive of BLM today. But if Trump looks like he's gaining ANY traction from all this street drama, watch Clinton's and the Congressional Black Caucus's tune change (you already posted one such backtrack from John Lewis). Today's DNC is yesterday's GOP (Democratic Leadship Council assumption of leadership in 80s and 90s), which is why I'm an independent and always will be.

    I've already beat that drum on unfocused movements. I do think its presumptuous, however, to give BLM more credit than it deserves as if no predecessors "forced a conversation" and laid a foundation that they're standing on, for addressing police brutality, etc. Malcolm X put such issues as police brutality and mass incarceration upfront in the Nation of Islam's "Muslim Program" six decades ago in their newspaper (" We want an immediate end to the police brutality and mob attacks against the so-called Negro throughout the United States. We believe that the Federal government should intercede…"), the Black Panthers in their publications, as well. A movement has to have ongoing programs and organization to be successful, otherwise it's just social media bread and circuses and the masses are fickle. Beyond the rhetoric, the Panthers started every social program in this country (free lunch, medical clinics, reading programs, etc.) which were cooped by the Federal government for control and credit, as if Nixon and Johnson created them. Where are BLM's programs? id like to see them be more like King and Jesse's Operation Breadbasket/PUSH (before he became a poverty pimp), and less like Stokely Carmichael and Al Sharpton (all talk for the cameras).

    I suppose you think I'm beating up on BLM…and I am, a little. "You only hurt the ones you love." Lol. What I DO see in BLM is youthful energy and enthusiasm…but they need to channel it for the long term and understand that it is not going to be embraced by many older, scared black folk, who feel that these "uppity kids" are making them look bad and jeopardizing their bougie negro positions and existence. In that respect, I admire their generational independence; their willingness to buck the old Negro guard and not automatically bend over with greased asshole for Democrats. Bernie Sanders owes a LARGE portion of any coverage he's gotten this year to the energy of BLM, not his own geriatric efforts or those of granola-eating white hippie college kids. But you see he's about to take a knee and kiss Hillary's ring Ned Stark-style, so once again, what difference does the DNC platform make to BLM or anyone else?

    BLM HAS been successful, unintentionally so, of exposing the class divide in black America that people like black sociologist William Julius Wilson have been writing about since he put out The Declining Significance of Race. They need to understand and not run from the class issue, if they really want to effect change. "Every brother ain't a brother" as Chuck D sang. The black middle class like me co-opts the language of the black underclass and movements like BLM and then gets all the economic and educational spoils from the Federal government while the underclass gets shyt. The black underclass then gets doubly shyt on by both white America and black bourgeoisie America. That's basically what I'm getting at. BLM needs to control the organization and message better, or they'll continue to see the rug pulled out from under them, and some of those rug-grabbing hands will be elite black ones. BLM really needs to study and understand COINTELPRO history, because I see it being used against them now. Look how quickly the conversation was turned from innocent black men being shot to how bad cops have it in America (which is a statistical and material falsehood). To their credit, they went ahead as planned with weekend protests, which puts them in the spirit of SCLC folk who carried on the Poor People's Campaign even in the face of King's assassination.

  30. NikR
    NikR | July 13th, 2016
    0

    This is sobering. I've thought about this in the past. I've always assumed that if I died and I was out to most/all the important people in my life, my gayness would still be erased. I have low confidence in humanity, and very sadly by extension, my family, to accurately identify me or to tell my whole story. I'd be "Dr. NikR". Fullstop. The guy that I've started to (*gasp*) love? He'd be erased too.

    My family would do it because they would think that telling the story of warm-hearted, kinda crazy, low-key hilarious Dr. NikR would be my "best" face. The gay shyt would besmirch my otherwise very clean, externally lily-white, identity…at least according to their world view. It makes me sad.

    From where I sit right now, I believe that my gay black life wouldn't matter. Maybe once I'm "fully out" (whatever the hell that means) this belief will change. I'm not holding my breath.

  31. BlackguyExecutive
    BlackguyExecutive | July 13th, 2016
    0
    Ockydub

    So don't believe my lying eyes?

    This hyperbole is coming from real people, showing their opinions and sentiments. Are you saying anti-homosexual Black heterosexual men are lying when they profess their anti-homosexual stance simply because its on social media or in a comments section?

    No, I am saying that the most hyperbolic sentiments are the comments that get shared and perpetuated. It a snowball effect. I don't discount anti-homosexual black hetero men disdain of gay men but I also don't think that the hetero black men who don't have a problem get any sort of recognition in our divisive media culture.

  32. BlackguyExecutive
    BlackguyExecutive | July 13th, 2016
    0
    Ockydub

    So don't believe my lying eyes?

    This hyperbole is coming from real people, showing their opinions and sentiments. Are you saying anti-homosexual Black heterosexual men are lying when they profess their anti-homosexual stance simply because its on social media or in a comments section?

    Think about the thousands of people who will even see that post or the comments on it because it outside of their circle of regular or likely communication. Think about this way, youtube release a video called ProudToBe, the video assembled to most dislikes of any YouTube video, people with animus sought out the video just to comment negatively on it. I never understood why people who claim not to care for gay people or dislike gay men, but spend so much time trying to bring about negativity. Or in many cases, seek out gay content just to leave a comment. I don't follow Westboro Church because they make me sick, I would never seek them out just to leave a comment because I disapprove. It seems like the opposite when it comes to gay men in particular.

  33. Ockydub
    Ockydub | July 13th, 2016
    0
    BlackguyExecutive

    No, I am saying that the most hyperbolic sentiments are the comments that get shared and perpetuated. It a snowball effect. I don't discount anti-homosexual black hetero men disdain of gay men but I also don't think that the hetero black men who don't have a problem get any sort of recognition in our divisive media culture.

    On any given homosexual Black related article on any given (more mainstream) Black heterosexual leaning site or social media page (outside of VSB/Root/ and sometimes HuffPost Black Voices), from my experience, the majority of comments by Black people are anti-homosexual.

  34. Nick Delmacy
    Nick Delmacy | July 14th, 2016
    0
    Ockydub

    On any given homosexual Black related article on any given (more mainstream) Black heterosexual leaning site or social media page (outside of VSB/Root/ and sometimes HuffPost Black Voices), from my experience, the majority of comments by Black people are anti-homosexual.

    But how can that be?! Dudes on our site keep saying that Black People aren't Homophobic!!!
    :ravetho::troll:

  35. Rico
    Rico | July 15th, 2016
    0
    Ockydub

    On any given homosexual Black related article on any given (more mainstream) Black heterosexual leaning site or social media page (outside of VSB/Root/ and sometimes HuffPost Black Voices), from my experience, the majority of comments by Black people are anti-homosexual.

    Depends on which black groups/communities we're talking about. That's why I always say we should refer to black communiTIES, and black populationS (plural). We all share some macro-cultural similarities, but are diverse as black folk, even though we're all lumped together behind a wall of general white supremacy and the brokerage of black middle class spokesmen and political class.

    Put together, yeah, it appears the balance of black folk are homophobic; but the homophobia is for varied reasons and degrees among black groups: the religious set's objections (as @Ockydub always points out); working or underclass folk, with men needing to express their frustrated masculinity/lack of opportunities by differentiating themselves from gay/bi black men, and working class hetero women who feel that the presence of gay men somehow supposedly diminishes their small pool of "good black men"; and the black middle and political class which, despite their rubber-stamping of liberal and DNC policies, have a large portion of talented tenth types who secretly hate gays behind closed doors (having sat in on many of their conversations, with them not knowing my own orientation) because they feel gays have a class advantage over their own aspirations for affluence.

    This false concept of "black unity" is what keeps any conversations about black homophobia or suppression of black LGBT lives and voices suppressed, even from among many black LGBT themselves. Out of some bullshyt call for "unity," we can't criticize homophobia among black religious folk because that supposedly denigrates the legacy of the black church (whose claim as vanguard to our freedom is overrated anyway); we can't criticize toxic masculinity and DL-hysteria among the black working class because then we're "forgetting where we come from" and "beating up on the poor"; we can't criticize homophobia among the talented tenth types because we're supposed to be loyal racial serfs and pledge obeisance to the black leadership class no matter how much they betray the trust and goodwill of others by their craven and criminal behavior (like Marion Barry, Kwame Kilpatrick, Kevin Johnson or Jesse Jackson Jr.)




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