Why Do Male Queer Feminists Reject Male Specific Issues?

By OckyDub | Posted Dec 1 2016 | 14 Comments  

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In this podcast Ocky Williams discusses the mind set of Male Queer Feminists and their seemingly aversion to discussing and championing male issues; such as:

• Male Homelessness
• Male Rape
• Domestic Violence inflected upon males
• Male Suicides
• A multi-tiered justice system that negatively impacts men
• An un-emphatic view of young male victims within drug trafficking

…But back to Ocky’s question; Why Do Male Queer Feminists Reject Male Specific Issues? Possible answer:

As the marriage between gay men and feminism continues, it seems like the gay man’s quest to becoming a better Gay or Queer man, is to be a man who thinks, feels and self identifies as; “I am a Queer man. I am a Feminist….FULL STOP!”

Do you agree or disagree? Feel free to share your thoughts on this podcasts.

Much Appreciations,
Ocky

black-young-man-job-seeker

 

 

About the Author
OckyDub

Octavius is a founder and editor of Cypher Avenue. He's here to help speak for us and show the world that masculine gay / bisexual men of color are not a part of the stereotypical gay normal that is seen and fed to the masses. No...we are a distinct breed, filled with character and pride. Cypher Avenue is here to show the world how we are different.

   
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14 Comments Feel Free To Join The Cypher.

  1. hannibal
    hannibal | December 1st, 2016
    0

    I wont get to listen until this evening, but I can immediately say I've never known a queer feminist to run from any of the issues you discussed, let alone male rape.

  2. OckyDub
    Ockydub | December 2nd, 2016
    0
    hannibal

    I wont get to listen until this evening, but I can immediately say I've never known a queer feminist to run from any of the issues you discussed, let alone male rape.

    If you think / feel self identified male queer feminist discuss males specific issues on the same level and with the same frequency as they do female issues, I think you're being disingenuous. Even their self identified titles and descriptors say other wise.

  3. ControlledXaos
    ControlledXaos | December 2nd, 2016
    0

    Part of what you mentioned here is why I'm not cosigning on Equal Work Equal Pay. Females have so many options for assistance if they were to lose a job, end up on the brink of homelessness, disability, etc and if they have kids even more options. Not saying they'd end up in the lap of luxury but they have a few nets to catch them before absolute rock bottom. This is coming from a man who has a few single or formerly single moms in his family.

    For me, it wouldn't even be that I'd rely on an assistance program to help me if things went bad, it's that I wouldn't even have the option.

    I think that the comparison of young boys put out on the corner to sell drugs compared to females being pimped for sex is a good analogy. I never really thought of it like that but there's definitely parallels there.

  4. elg | December 3rd, 2016
    0

    To answer your question ” Why Do Male Queer Feminists Reject Male Specific Issues”?, I would say that the majority of gay males who identify as queer feminists have probably not had pleasant experiences with males who identify primarily or totally as heterosexual.

    Many queer male feminists probably “relate” to feminist women and their issues more because these particular women relate to them on a human level. Queer feminist males, or males who identify as queer, have probably experienced rejection by heterosexual males so they (queer feminist males) reject issues that affect mostly heterosexual males.

    The interactions between queer feminist males and feminist women may or may not be entirely “equal” or “smooth” but they are at least relating on some level that meets their human need for connection.

  5. OckyDub
    Ockydub | December 3rd, 2016
    0
    Comment Imported From Main Site

    To answer your question " Why Do Male Queer Feminists Reject Male Specific Issues"?, I would say that the majority of gay males who identify as queer feminists have probably not had pleasant experiences with males who identify primarily or totally as heterosexual. Many queer male feminists probably "relate" to feminist women and their issues more because these particular women relate to them on a human level. Queer feminist males, or males who identify as queer, have probably experienced rejection by heterosexual males so they (queer feminist males) reject issues that affect mostly heterosexual males. The interactions between queer feminist males and feminist women may or may not be entirely "equal" or "smooth" but they are at least relating on some level that meets their human need for connection.

    This comment is very similar to a comment via Youtube; my response is:

    "Even though I agree with this, to me it doesn’t make it less dangerous. Rejecting one's self (male/maleness) in favor of what they are not to me is a form of self-hate and denial. Many heterosexual men are rejected, bullied, teased, and beaten by other men. They don't in turn look at men as something toxic that needs to be ‘fixed’, because that would mean, as a man, they too are toxic and need to be fixed. Male queer feminists are embracing male womenhood but rejecting malesness….while still lusting after masculinity."

    I would also add, the examples I used as male issues, maybe two impact heterosexual men more. All others impacts men (specifically Black men) and boys regardless of sexualities.

    • elg | December 5th, 2016
      0

      Ocky, I have to push back a little on your response to my comment. To me, the ultimate in self love is to cut ties to people who abuse you and reach out to those people who uplift you and your spirit.

      The best thing a queer male feminist, or any queer male, can do for himself is to cut ties to people, places and things that hate him. The next best thing a queer male can do for himself to is reach out to those people, places and things that uplift him and appreciate him AS HE IS. This is not rocket science, it’s just COMMON SENSE. Queer males owe themselves peace of mind and if they can find this, or some semblance of it, from their interactions with some feminist women so be it.

      Then there is the matter of “reciprocity”: don’t “cape” (fight) for anyone who wouldn’t cape for you. In other words, don’t march in anybody’s parade unless they march in yours.

      I know, for example, that homelessness effects men and boys across sexualities but if I was considering helping homeless men/boys I would target homelessness, among gay men/boys: btw, I have given money consistently to various LGBT causes over the years. I will not support people who do not support me and, specifically, my demographic (black gay men/boys). Suggestion to anybody: build an “infrastructure” that supports black gay men/boys and I will support you.

      Question: would a typical heterosexual male support a man he knew or suspected was gay? Probably not. If, however, you know (or you are acquainted with/friends with) a heterosexual male who supports you 100% then of course you would support him 100%. Again, this is common sense to me.

      PS: I know that many, if not most, heterosexual females are homophobic. I mention this just in case you or anybody else thought I had some idealistic view of how het women generally look at gay/bisexual men: some women think, or seem to think, that if you don’t want to sex them then you must hate them. And I know that many heterosexual black women/girls, especially, are on high alert for “signs” that a black man/boy does not want her vagina. Some het black women get very angry, and vindictive, when they find out a black man is homosexual especially if he’s attractive and/or “successful”. Assume I know this. lol

  6. Rico
    Rico | December 3rd, 2016
    0
    Ockydub

    This comment is very similar to a comment via Youtube; my response is:

    "Even though I agree with this, to me it doesn’t make it less dangerous. Rejecting one's self (male/maleness) in favor of what they are not to me is a form of self-hate and denial. Many heterosexual men are rejected, bullied, teased, and beaten by other men. They don't in turn look at men as something toxic that needs to be ‘fixed’, because that would mean, as a man, they too are toxic and need to be fixed. Male queer feminists are embracing male womenhood but rejecting malesness….while still lusting after masculinity."

    I would also add, the examples I used as male issues, maybe two impact heterosexual men more. All others impacts men (specifically Black men) and boys regardless of sexualities.

    I've been re-reading the book below that was released in 1991. Much of it, sadly, still is true but unfortunately it becomes a relic due to it's hotep homophobia (i.e. homosexuality is as much a threat to black manhood as white feminism). It would be good if someone rewrote it from a modern, intelligent gay perspective…maybe…someone like this dude named Octavius Williams? Hmmm…I smell an idea for a Kickstarter or GoFundMe campaign (gripping my dollars ready to contribute…)
    [​IMG]

  7. OckyDub
    Ockydub | December 3rd, 2016
    0
    Rico

    I've been re-reading the book below that was released in 1991. Much of it, sadly, still is true but unfortunately it becomes a relic due to it's hotep homophobia (i.e. homosexuality is as much a threat to black manhood as white feminism). It would be good if someone rewrote it from a modern, intelligent gay perspective…maybe…someone like this dude named Octavius Williams? Hmmm…I smell an idea for a Kickstarter or GoFundMe campaign (gripping my dollars ready to contribute…)
    [​IMG]

    I appreciate the accolades (and I'm humbled) but me a writer…LMAO. My vocabulary aint even that strong b.
    :bronbad::mjlol:

  8. Rico
    Rico | December 4th, 2016
    0
    Ockydub

    I appreciate the accolades (and I'm humbled) but me a writer…LMAO. My vocabulary aint even that strong b.
    :bronbad::mjlol:

    You gave up the ghost on Dragon already?!!

    Keep repeating to yourself: A book is just a bunch of blog posts on bound paper….

  9. OhSheit
    OhSheit | December 4th, 2016
    0

    Well, you answered your own question at the end. It's also for the same reasons why everyone else does, including the very men affected by these male specific issues. It's forbidden to have these discussions or raise awareness in the media and society. On top of that with everything queer feminist bloggers or activists stand for and what relates to or concerns them, what do you expect? But I'm sure you probably have gay feminists viewing or even members on your board that care about the same issues as you while also doing their advocacy for women elsewhere.

    Everything you said about prison rape is right. We've become desensitized to whatever happens in prison because we've got this mindset that if you're going to prison you deserve whatevers coming to you, especially if you're a man. We wish sexual violence upon men who are incarcerated and not realize that we're contributing to this "rape culture" we condemn. College sexual harassment is real out here though. My college is handling a couple of incidents going on since 2011 poorly and it's not even being covered.

    I totally get your analogy with the sex trade/drug trade and not seeing (black) men as victims. But I want to expand a little bit because I feel like it's more of a race issue than feeling empathy for women. How can we invade this foreign country? We have to save these women and children with no agency from these men, oh but even if that means kill them in the process. How can we lock these black men up? We have to save the women from this sex traffic and save the women and children from these drugs and gang violence… without actually fixing anything or taking responsibility for creating these conditions or environments for poor black folks in the first place. And then when we lock these men up and put these women on assistance it catches up with them anyway because they're later stigmatized and blamed by the same people that "saved them." How can we get black and latino men to ignore the more series disparities of social class and race in higher ed? Align them with the white boys. Get them to pay attention to the gender ratio/women's increasing graduation rate even though white and asian men are still more likely than all blacks and latinos to obtain a degree. To me it just shows you how race and gender work together to continue to control people of color, but especially black men.

  10. OckyDub
    Ockydub | December 5th, 2016
    0
    Comment Imported From Main Site

    Ocky, I have to push back a little on your response to my comment. To me, the ultimate in self love is to cut ties to people who abuse you and reach out to those people who uplift you and your spirit. The best thing a queer male feminist, or any queer male, can do for himself is to cut ties to people, places and things that hate him. The next best thing a queer male can do for himself to is reach out to those people, places and things that uplift him and appreciate him AS HE IS. This is not rocket science, it's just COMMON SENSE. Queer males owe themselves peace of mind and if they can find this, or some semblance of it, from their interactions with some feminist women so be it. Then there is the matter of "reciprocity": don't "cape" (fight) for anyone who wouldn't cape for you. In other words, don't march in anybody's parade unless they march in yours. I know, for example, that homelessness effects men and boys across sexualities but if I was considering helping homeless men/boys I would target homelessness, among gay men/boys: btw, I have given money consistently to various LGBT causes over the years. I will not support people who do not support me and, specifically, my demographic (black gay men/boys). Suggestion to anybody: build an "infrastructure" that supports black gay men/boys and I will support you.

    "Common Sense" as to the reasonings has nothing to do with pointing out the flaws in the reasonings.

    My response is not an attack (believe me its not) but your comment reminds me how many non-heterosexual men put their sexuality first or sometimes wear their sexuality on their sleeves (I understand you personally may not be doing this but just may be providing a counter point to my argument).

    As a person who has cut ties to environments that was non-progressive to my evolution, I did not "cut ties" to my maleness or masculinity or channel my thoughts to not care about men's issues. My sexuality does not change my gender.

    Example: A self identifying Black fem queer male feminist who champions breast cancer (a disease that mostly impacts women) while completely ignoring prostate cancer (a disease that kills more men than women and kills more black men then white men) all because girls and women were more sympathetic to his plights as a non-heterosexual, does nothing for the issues that could directly impact him. Many of the issues (examples) I raised have absolutely nothing to do with sexuality, masculinity or femininity. Effeminate men are still men.

    This reminds me of Black people doing the damn ice bucket challenge but doing nothing to bring awareness to sickle cell…a disease that directly impacts them.

    *Note* even straight men seem to focus on and care more about breast cancer then prostate cancer. Another example how feminism and media have caused us to think and care less about ourselves as men and focus more on women and girls.

  11. OhSheit
    OhSheit | December 5th, 2016
    0

    But sometimes (black) men do make it HARD as fuck though. You make efforts to show that you're on their side, they turn on you, it fucks you up, you say to hell with yall. I get it.

    This is why I'm selfish. Fuck ALL of you, I'm here for bettering MYSELF, I'll be the only man in the world if I have to. #thisiswhatthestreetsmademe smugbama

  12. OckyDub
    Ockydub | December 6th, 2016
    0

    Here is the thing…
    What "issues" are exclusive to heterosexual Black Men?
    What "issues" are exclusive to non-heterosexual Black Men?
    What "issues" are exclusive to Black Men?
    What "issues" are exclusive to Men?

    Cancer deaths, child deaths, suicides, homelessness, incarceration lengths are higher in males, many higher in black males.

    The tither is simple. We are MEN first.

  13. Luke Evergreen
    Luke Evergreen | December 19th, 2016
    0

    Most Gay/bi male feminists are feminists because they have nightmares from bad experiences with straight men: homophobia(verbal/physical), bullying, rejection from their fathers and male peers. Also male feminists better watch out, you are like a house negro from slavery times to female feminists, they might treat you a little better because you’re a gay/bi male feminist but behind close they still think your just another man with privileged an wouldn’t consider you in their discussions.




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