It appears that the only group of people on the planet that internally hates themselves more than African Americans are Gay Men. I can’t think of any other groups of people that consciously chooses to use immensely offensive words to describe themselves.
Self-Hatred is a serious matter and I don’t want to take this lightly. Many people do not think race should be compared to sexuality in any way, but I think there are some correlations here.
It can be argued that Black Americans’ use of the word “Nigger” as a casual descriptive term of endearment is the result of the unimaginable trauma caused by American Slavery and the subsequent period of Jim Crow Laws. Some say the wound created by that brutality will take much more time and therapy to heal. So Black people have chosen to attempt to use the word in a way that takes away its power.
What are Gay people’s excuse for the terms they use? I log into websites and message boards daily and see words used amongst gay men that if said by a non-gay person (more specifially a heterosexual man) would be unbelievably offensive. Gay men are masochists. They seem to like being mistreated and humiliated.
Are gay men also embracing the offensive words to take away their power when used by racists and homophobes? If that’s the case, why are the words still just as abrasive decades later? If African Americans have “redefined” the word “Nigger”, why did Paula Dean get such a backlash in 2013? Why can’t Justin Bieber say, “Whattup, Nigga” when addressing his boss Usher Raymond?
Its because the “redefining the definition” excuse is all bullshit. The word is just as offensive and potent as its always been. The same applies to gay terms, gay terms that gay men are seen using daily on Twitter, causal conversation, blogs and even University classrooms, are all still offensive. Which words am I referring to? Let’s look at 5 of them.
This is one of the oldest gay epithets known. Most gay men come out of the womb knowing the potency of this word. It is a word used by heterosexual bigots for decades to imply that a boy or man wasn’t living up the performance expected by his gender role. It was even more psychologically damaging when heard coming from a parent or father figure. “Stop being a sissy!” they would say to try to push away any signs of feminine behavior.
Yet gay men can be seen calling other gay men sissies all the time. One would think gay men would abolish this word from their self-descriptive vocabulary and quickly chastise anyone that used it as well.
Gay men and African Americans are probably the ONLY groups on the planet that do this. You don’t see Jews calling each other Kikes. You don’t see Chinese men calling each other Chinks. We must collectively end the self-hatred disguised as a “redefinition” of the offensive words.
A serious debate came up when blogger Waddie Grant covered the battle between two Memorial Day Gay Event Promoters last year. The founder of Sizzle Miami accused the promoters of DC Pride of printing flyers that stated something to the effect of, “The Ladies will be at Sizzle, but the Real Men will be at DC Pride.” No evidence could be produced to confirm this but the reaction from gay men online was, how could they do that…that’s so offensive to call effeminate men “ladies!”
The problem with this is gay men do it causally ALL THE TIME!
Here’s the deal. If one or two descriptive terms like “masculine” or “discreet” have to go, they all have to go. If gay men have a problem with others in the community saying that they’re not “real men,” they can’t in-turn call themselves or others “Girl” and “Ladies.” Need an example of this in action, check out the video below:
Say my gay boss at the office gives me an assignment, is it appropriate for me to say, “Yes, ma’am” when responding to him? Especially if he himself often says, “Yes, ma’am” amongst his gay male friends over a round of Daiquiris?
This doesn’t only apply to effeminate men. All gay men should have a problem with female pronouns used to refer to other gay men. Especially the so-called masculine men that casually do it without a second thought of the ill effects.
How can we as a community get pissed at heterosexual men who attack us as being not “manly” when we as a group don’t even refer to each other as men? I’m not saying that gay men should try to adhere to some specific idea of what is masculine. However I do think we should not refer to ourselves as the opposite gender while simultaneous shouting that we’re all still in fact men.
Picture this: Justin Timberlake and Eminem adopt traditionally African American mannerisms and behaviors. That’s fine. But what if they also started calling themselves Black or African Americans? Like literally saying, “Us brothas are dominating the music game right now!” Everyone would be like:
So let’s all abolish female descriptors from Gay terminology. We will still embrace our effeminate, inbetween and masculine brothers, but the difference is we’ll all be referring to each other as the strong men we are.
The list continues on the next page…
*rolls eyes*
every gay I know that uses Girl and Queen(myself included) is only meant in humor. I call it making the best out of a situation. We have it so hard in most cases and if we can’t poke fun at ourselves every now and again we would just be miserable.
So you basicly saying if you can’t beat them join them huh? I understand people tryingt to put humor to something negative But like Nick said you may think you taking the power away by using those terms jokingly, but as soon as the WRONG person says those words it cuts deep. Then that vioce gets deeper that testosterone and adrenaline starts pumping and you ready to show who ever how manly you really are.
I feel the men who should be called women, and girl, are the male->female transgender dudes who actually want to be women and want to be recognized and identified as women.
No. I’m saying that some of us just see it as funny and we make light of it. We know we’re not girls and the humor is in the fact that we are not. Hmph. The conspiracy theorist in me almost believes this is a roundabout attack on fem men again since those are the ones that use the terms except for sissy. The difference between NIgger and the words you’ve highlighted here is that Nigger has an historical usage that was intended to be hurtful and demeaning. Queen/Girl/Trade do not have this historical baggage. Words like FAG and PUNK do and I never hear my gay friends use that term unless they are intentionally meaning to be offensive but that’s a different story. I can see Sissy fitting into the N word character, but once again thats only something I ever hear straight men or masculine men use to demean fem men. Queer…well I never hear anyone use that casually so I don’t know.
Lol dude read the article agian…. He actually says the every gay person need to stop using those terms..fem inbetween and masculine gay dudes.
I have heard white gay guys use the word queer @hannibal
Maybe you should take a minute and do some basic research. Seems that a number of posters here seem to have a ill informed skewed view of gay language.
I hear that: if a gay dude calls me “girl,” I mean, I figure it’s meant to be funny and I’m over it – although it can add up after a while.
But if a STRAIGHT dude calls me “girl”…yeah I get kinda pissed…
@Nick I have to agree with you about those words.
I never use the words but I do notice them if I happen to be around gay people at work or just being out and about. I think that the best way for African-Americans and Gay people to take their power back is to not use the words. If you really want to empower yourself, use words like strong, independent, brave, courageous, etc. Don’t empower yourself (or someone else) by saying that you (or they) are an “independent b!tch/ni99a”, “snap queen”, desirable “trade”, a “butch fa99ot/sissy” and so on.
I think that we as a people (gays and African-Americans) have to really think about what we are doing to ourselves. It goes back as far as 1712 with the William Lynch speech/letter (see more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Lynch_speech). White people influenced African-Americans to have an inferiority complex where we always feel that we are less than good enough. As time continued on, the Caucasian population did not have to do the work anymore to make Blacks feel like we are less than. We as African-Americans continue to keep doing that to ourselves.
The same goes for heterosexuals making homosexuals feel like they had a mental disorder back in the day and that we were doing the wrong thing for feeling the way we do.
It has become so second nature for African-Americans and Gay Men to say those derogatory terms as a way to empower themselves when they’ve forgotten the true origin and reason for…
Willie Lynch definitely applies, thanks for adding that @africanking
You’re welcome @nick!
Okay, okaaay, Mr. Nick Buzzkillington. I’ve been having my fun with Donnie McClurkin. “She” “Gospel Sissy” etc. Message received. Sheesh.
Im not aware of this issue ever being raised before
I often say homo(s) because I identify with the term homsexual.does anyone find that word offensive since straight guys are known to use it negatively
I never been called girl in person, but online is a different story. If someone called me girl in person I would chin check that punk. I have been known to refer to the stereotypical gays as “the girls” though. I be like the girls are gonna get you lmao
Okay Bishop Nick, I’m somewhat perplexed about your ‘outrage’ here. It goes without saying that I’m in agreement with you as it relates to the use of these terms. But why are you giving rappers and the hip hop genre a total pass when it comes to homophobic lyrics, yet take exception with the ‘kids’? You can demand that your gay brethren behave in a certain manner, yet give your blessings to the likes of J. Cole by referring to his destructive lyrics as “ART”???
Color me confused as f*ck
@blackpegasus I never gave J Cole or Hip Hip a pass on anything. I wrote an entire essay the other day about the homophobia in Hip Hop that we need to acknowledge more.
In this article I mentioned repeatedly that we have to get our own house in order first before was can expect any straight homophobes to tolerate us. Their offensive language about us, we use it on each other daily, yet we expect them not to. How can we expect to get respect when we don’t even respect ourselves amongst each other?
I hear you. When I said to my best friend (straight) that using “gay” as an insult on a TV sitcom is damaging for gays (and American culture, at large), he disagreed: “anti-gay language adds ‘color’ to dialogue in a TV comedy,” he told me.
What?! I was disappointed in him.
But to your point: when is it “art” (a pass) and when is it not “art”?
Can I even argue with my friend, if he perceives this comedy as “art”? It would get a pass!
I can understand the writers frustration and point of view. As a gay black man who also think internalized homophobia is one of our community’s most pressing issue I think it’s great to see this discussion happen. However, I’d just like to point out that perhaps we need to start looking a little deeper at some other issues, like gender bias, for instance. Why is it that men are so offended by being called, in any form, a girl? Is being likened to a female really so awful? Maybe if we reject biases based on gender being called a “Queen” could take a different spin. Also, although I think labels can be damaging they can also be empowering. Although you, or someone else may reject the term “Queer”, for many it’s self-affirming. There’s an argument to be made that there’s a long history of taking power from those who oppress by adopting their language and re-defining it to make it our own. Many years ago it would have been offensive to be called “Black” but now many of us use that term with pride, as I do. Language can be transitionary and fluid and meaning can evolve. A definition in a dictionary is very limited in scope and should not be the go to reference when understanding the complexity of certain words/labels. The intention of the writer is clear and I could not agree with that more but there are certainly other things to consider when having this discourse.
Thanks for your feedback. I would counter your questions with a question of my own: What’s really so wrong with being a man and being labeled as such amongst each other? Its not about being offended by an association with women. Again, we can’t get offended when homophobes say we’re not men if we don’t even recognize ourselves as men amongst each other.
I mentioned repeatedly in the article that I get the theory of taking power away from words but its clearly not working. These words are still offensive if used by the right people in the wrong ways. So how is this self-affirming?
I merely listed the dictionary definition of queer to show the word has no positive context in everyday society whatsoever. It also is STILL used as an negative epithet. What sense does it make to have that be the official label for a group of people? Why not start with a universally POSITIVE word than adopting a negative word that is still currently used against us?
This is like a kid being called an offensive nickname “Butt Ugly Larry” and his response as an adult is to change it to his Legal name.
Your welcome for the feed-back and I’m glad to contribute to the discussion. What I offered wasn’t not a criticism to your opinion piece but just food for thought.
Never did I suggest that there is something wrong with being called a man or recognized as such. I simply asked why is it that being associated with a woman is so offensive and I would argue that it’s gender bias based on Colonial/Puritanical ideology that deems women as less than, weak, inferior, etc. I could offer a myriad of examples, “you throw like a girl” “stop crying like a little girl” “man-up”. I would be no more inclined to be offended if someone were to look at me and say I was the color red than I would be if someone insinuated I was acting like a girl. Neither would be true but the difference here is that “red” has no negatives attached to it like “woman-like” does and I find that more offensive to my sisters/mothers than I anything.
I also suggested that language evolves. If you look in the dictionary for the word gay 20 years prior to today it would have a totally different meaning. Fag was a cigarette. Black was negatively used by our oppressors before the late 60’s/70’s when “we” reclaimed it to make it a label of pride. People can use plenty of derogatory, hurtful words and I’m not saying there should be a movement for every one of them to redefine them. But if Butt Ugly Larry wanted to start a campaign I would at least validate his feelings to do so.
This website is all about discussion so never feel out of place for offering a different point of view.
As for our comment, you make some valid points but many of them have nothing to do with this article. When modern gay men call Tyler Perry a “Closet Queen” or Donnie McClurkin a “Gossip Sissy”, I seriously doubt they are doing so to make a statement against “Colonial/Puritanical Ideological Gender Bias.”
Lasty, attempts to redefine negative words seems to be a trick that only African Americans and homosexuals try to pull off. Why not focus on POSITIVE words instead? The word GAY started off positive, why not adopt more words like that again instead of a word like “Queer” that universally means strange and is STILL used in verbal attacks by homophobes? If they tell us, “You guys are different” why is our response, “No we’re not, we’re Queer!”
HUH?!?! lol Anyway, thanks for adding to the discussion.
I can see this debate going on and on, which is cool and I think healthy as long as it’s respectful that we acknowledge these are just our individual points of view.
I do believe the comments I made speak directly to your article in that I just suggested we take look at the issue you raised using a broader lens, to expand upon what you started. In my initial post I stated that I understood your viewpoint and there was no disagreement with the important topic you raised.
Any words or language could be used as harmful. So yes, I totally agree, if someone calls out T. Perry or Donny in that manner, with the sole intent to cause pain or denigrate him then there’s an issue….no matter what term is used. I only suggested we look closer at why the feminizing someone seems like the ultimate offense. Is in not possible that there are deeper issues here to ponder?
And I don’t think reclaiming language is a trick, rather I see it as empowering, but again, that’s just my point of view which I dare to say other might share.
Lastly, I don’t see why we can’t embrace and honor our differences. In fact, I don’t want to assimilate into a culture or with those who continue to perpetuate hate, violence, and homophobic views. So sorry, I reject the assumption that my goal is to “be the same”. Different is not synonymous with lesser than or better than. Again, that’s a European/Colonial construct that we’ve been “tricked” into thinking is good.
@nick Donnie McClurkin and his kind have called us way worse than “gospel sissy,” so let’s not get dramatic. I won’t say it on this site anymore but let’s be clear:
When I mock the closeted ex-gay christians, who statistically fail at their “rebirth” in laughable numbers while increasing the suicide rates of our gay boys; I’m participating in a bit of well earned schadenfreude for the hypocrites who had it coming.
No, I’m not saying as a statement for gender bias and I’m not saying it based on the loose logic that I must hate myself. Rather, I enjoy saying it to fuck with people who hate me enough to want me gone.
No, take no offense man…I know you were just joking. I used that example in my response because it was fresh on my brain. However I do think we need to be mindful of the language we use, even if we are directing it towards homophobes themselves. I’m guilty of this myself so its an ever evolving process.
I agree with the concept of the article and the information in it so let’s break it down line by line shall we:
1. The word “Sissy” has more meaning to it than to belittle someone who’s homosexual but use of the word is primarily used to insult gays so I agree with you on this Nick!
2. Girl. Well, I don’t like for a homosexual to refer to me as “Girl” for the simple fact that I’m not in fact a girl. Granted, it’s the most popular term in the gay slang dictionary and some don’t find harm in it but my preference is to not have it used towards me since I don’t use it towards others.
3. Queen. I totally get your point on this Nick! Why use such a strong word as “Queen” to describe another gay man but when a hetero uses it towards you, you find it offensive? I’ve used the word before but I’m trying to slowly work it out my vocabulary.
4. Trade. I HATE THIS FUCKING WORD PERIOD!
5. Queer. The gay community would argue they’ve reclaimed power of this word by removing negative connotations from it. It all depends on who you ask because some gays don’t have a problem being called queer. Also, to some, the “Q” in LGBTQ stands for Questioning but I get the point you’re making.
All in all, this article has some truth to it but what I also noticed after reading this article is that as much as some of us claim we’re different from the heteros, we’re actually just like them with the exception of who sleeps next to us at night.
Overall, good job on…
When I was doing my undergrad I had a sociology teacher (female) who not only hated the use of the word “girl” for gay guys, but for grown women as well! It’s a discussion that never gets old.
I agree. Totally. This us so true of black male homosexuals here in the south if Africa. Africans are such sponges for western culture. So quick to absorb errthing that comes from yonder.
I think from a personal standpoint, a lot of the issue is with ppl thinking its okay to call me any of these terms, because Im gay. For some girl who has a super fem friend who says these words all of the time, to think it’s no big deal as long as the dude is gay. Its about the fight for gay men to not be seen as a monolith, just like blk folks are always jumping up about every time madea goes to jail, the fam reunion, or the damn grocery store!
It’s no secret that being seen as a blk, gay ‘miss girl’ stereotype is a big reason why many of us stay closeted.
I love this post!! I have been saying for a while that using the words you said above is self-hatred. Why would a man think is OK to call themselves a girl when they are not? A man come in with different mannerisms and personalities…but they are still a man. The word “queer” is the worst one. There has to be a better word than that to use.
I’m involved in higher education and a lot of the classes and programs that cater to lgbt issues use the word “Queer”. I never really thought about the dictionary meaning of the word until I read it in the article. Why would you want to call yourself “Queer” after reading that definition? It sounds like something that people use to describe gay men when mainstream society didn’t understand what being gay was. The world is evolving; the gay community needs to do the same.
I wish we could just erase these words but it’s not the simple. These words are a part of the whole gay culture, not just the black gay culture. Unless visible gay leaders make it an issue to stop the self-hatred slang, these words will continue to be used by the oppressed and the oppressors.
I would argue that it’s more self hatred to dislike that some gays find humor and irony in referring to each other as “girl” or whatever what have you.
I have seen a lot of LBGTQ websites change the Q from queer to Questioning
@nick I totally agree with you bruh. I stopped being close to two really cool dudes because I don’t want to be referred to as “girl” or “bitch”. To me, its an insult to my manhood. At this stage in my life, I can only be close to people who reflect certain values any reference to the terms you mentioned will undermine those values. I refuse to accept that I am somehow a lesser version of what it means to be a man. I had to ask myself, does being same gender loving negate my manhood? I know it does not!
I often wonder why we as same gender loving men do not take the time to create the narrative about us rather instead of mirroring heterosexual social/sexual roles and norms or those created by the white gay community. We are in the unique position to present ourselves as self-affirming and whole MEN who can be found in all cross sections of life.
Amen!! Hallelujah!! Holla!! Code Ten!!
I was just thinking about this because a Facebook buddy posted a message about how much he enjoyed being at a gay outing because his “friends” were being so “shady,” doing “reads,” and “spilling the tea.” Because this guy is an attractive male and seen as being desirable, he’s a part of the in circle where those things may seem entertaining because it’s not directed toward him, but for many of us, it’s hurtful and unnecessary. It’s interesting that the things some of us don’t like about the community are the very things that other people love about it.
I don’t use any of the terms referred to in the article and that’s my preference, but I hope that one day, especially for those that want better for our community, we’ll break away from and grow out of some of the negativity that has come to be expected and welcomed from some of our members. Otherwise, we’ll just have to stay fragmented and let those that feel comfortable with that sort of thing do it amongst themselves while those that aren’t cool with it connect somewhere else.
I was picked on terribly as a child. And though I’m typically not the target of “tea” and “reads” I feel for those that are. The teasing and name calling from “friends” sounds and feels a lot like the teasing and name calling from our enemies.
Yeah I don’t really get it. I’m a male so in no way do I want to be referred to as girl or bitch. It’s just like black people saying n***a. Saying the word jokingly makes it okay but if somebody used it in a negative way against you then it’s time to fight. Using these words in everyday language doesn’t take power away from them. The black community and the gay community are so backwards. I think it’s really ridiculous to turn words that are used to demean us and turn them into terms of endearment that we use everyday without a second thought. We definitely have a long way to go.
@Bpaisle @nick Fellas, I’m with you. I refuse to engage in psychological warfare with myself! I know for a lot of people its all about perspective;however, someone among us has to MAN up and see the bigger picture. Too many sheeple! LOL
Yeah @bpaisle, @thinker, @mikeyllo, @quietsoul, @exhibitrey and @sb3000, I don’t have ANY friends in my circle who use these words and others like it. When gay dudes around me say offensive ish like girl, sissy and Queen I be like:
If I tell dudes I have a problem with those words and why, they usually either watch themselves when they speak or they find me frequently absent when they’re around.
I believe these words aren’t “negative” exactly, but based on your own history with these words and depending on the way these words are used, they can be. I’ve only ever heard NIGGA be used as “What’s up ma nigga..” or “Nigga please..” and this makes these terms acceptable to me when they are said because they’re not used disrespectfully, they’re used if anything as slang and a twisted sort of “term of endearment” if you will. I accept that these 5 words that MAY indicate some sort of self-hatred may make sense to the bloggers on this site that have been called these words out of hatred at some point, however, don’t penalize anyone who uses these words in a NON negative sense and then justify your opinion by saying “If you use these words, you’re going against the gay grain”
-BWS
For me what is going against the “gay grain” is the gay men who chose not to use these words in reference to themselves and other gays unlike the majority of Out gays. I respect and take pride in my manhood and maleness to verbally ignore my gender.
I have never heard of “Trade” that is brand new to me. There are always a lot of guys using the word “Girl”. My ex and some of his friends always call each other girl. I myself do not like being called that at all. I am a man. not a girl
Nick, I don’t think “trade” is usually used in the context you’ve suggested, or at least it wasn’t in its origin. I think it has more to do with the “trade” involved in prostitution at its worst and quasi-prostitution or symbiotic relationships/encounters otherwise. For example, an otherwise straight dude might prostitute himself to a homosexual man, or a good-looking and more importantly, ‘masculine,’ mostly straight guy (bi guy if you prefer) will let himself be serviced or perhaps take a dominant sexual role, or submit to love making with a guy less masculine or less attractive or in some way in a league beneath him in desirability in exchange for money, pleasure, advancement, shelter, affection, status or whatever he needs. Some homosexual men learn to spot men willing to do this, and refer to the guys as ‘trade.’ Sometimes, especially if it’s a habitual role, the ‘trade’ will refer to the act itself as ‘trade.’ It as at times nearly contractual. The term ‘rough trade’ has a similar meaning, but usually is between partners of vastly different social backgrounds who are getting some thrill from interacting with a person of opposite position in society or a more mainstream homosexual guy sexually interacting with a more masculine guy (thug, street, and more curious than gay) in rough play (sometimes to the point of dom/sub or abuse.) Basically there is a trade of something or another between a usually receptive man who gets the thrill of sex with a…
Thanks for the history lesson; however what does the term “trade” mean today? Fem men refer to masc men as trade. When the term DL/Down Low first came on the scene it has nothing to do with gay men…but now it does. Whats your point here?
I definitely learned something from this blog! I think about that occasionally, it’s why gay communities are divided
I get you, and I do agree to a large extent.
But, what do you do with the gay men who feel they are ‘women’ in their identity? I don’t mean transgendered men who feel they are in the wrong body, I mean, they just don’t identify themselves as men, even though they are comfortable with their bodies. Should we discourage them from feeling that way, and urge them to use masculine terms for themselves?
I have never, at multiple parties, parades, and other such events, ever heard a single gay person refer to any other gay person or themselves as a ‘sissy’, a ‘girl’, or a ‘trade’. Not even once. Nor have I heard any non-gay people use those words in reference to a gay person.
I’ve heard a transexual called a girl, but that is sort of the point of being a transexual; they want to be referred to as the other gender now. On top of that, transexuals don’t necessarily have anything to do with being gay or straight. I myself know one who is completely asexual.
Upon thinking about it, I can’t really remember anyone not on TV using the word queer to refer to gay people either. It’s one of those things I’ve only ever seen on TV, and I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but the media doesn’t treat any culture in a completely accurate fashion..
Even ‘queen’ I’ve only heard used rarely in the context of an on-stage cross-dressing performer, who also, as a stage performer, doesn’t have to be gay any more than a female stripper at a men’s strip joint has to be straight. I mean even a lot of men that act in gay porn are only ‘gay for pay’, as they say.
So is the gay culture in my area just extremely dignified or something? I have a hard time believing that we’re that different.
I have to comment.. how I feel about this is that a person should be themselves no matter what the next person thinks or feels about it. That should be the beauty of living in America freedom of expression. I feel no matter what we do are say as gay black men the str8s will never understand or see us even as men because of the gay sex.lol so why not be yourself? As for the self hate. That takes time. I am 29 years old now and still dealing with my own homophobia in my own self. Depression and addictions. It takes time getting over these demons. That’s with anybody though. But what we can do as a gay black community is start to be more empathetic toward each other and less Judgmental and harsh more understanding and loving. All it take is one person to start the ripple effect of love. This is how I feel about this. If only we can see how beautifully unique we are. True self love comes when we can look at the ugliest and shityous parts of ourselves and accept that that’s ok for now. I am learning changing and evolving. Taking things day by day and sometimes making healthy hard decisions in our life. No matter where we are in life and no matter where we decide to go in life I believe greatly that Jesus loves us and will never stop Pursuing us. The end:)
This article was whack seven years ago, and it most certainly has not aged well today. How Black people reclaiming “nigger/nigga” makes logical sense, but queer Black men referring to each other as faggot, sissy, punk, etc. doesn’t? LOLOL.