A Real Examination of Racism and Gay Dating Apps

How often do you see those profiles though? I've see literally 3.

 

But what if that black guy is a bottom?

 

I could care less about white men and their preferences. The white gaze doesn't factor in the way that I view the world. I am attracted to African American men and other black diaspora men ( afro cubans, africans from the continent, afro Caribbean, afro brazilian etc). In a eurocentric society, the values and norms of white people are upholded. I don't subscribe to those norms and values. In fact, I find those values to be twisted in many ways. I embrace blackness in all its beauty and diversity.

 

Never said it wasn't.

 

Lol...I say NO WHITES in my profile. I dont care whether its construed as racist...nor do I care or complain if white men specify no blacks in their profiles. They have nothing that I want anyway. I will leave those concerns with the snow queens and black people with low self esteem. BTW racism is not the same as prejudice. Racism is systemic oppresion which requires an asymetrical power relationship. The power of the dominant group imposes its norms and values on a relatively powerless group. Blacks do not have the power to impose their norms and values on white society. So, blacks cannot be racist...prejudiced but not racist. I could care less about white people ...the looks, norms or values. I do not fond white men attractive...nor do I crave for their validation ( like sone of these pathetic negroes).. I find white society as pathologically hateful and spiritually dead. If that is prejudiced..so be it. I cant ..nor do I want to impose more norms..on white people. I jusr dont want to be bothered with them or the sick society. BTW Martin Luther King expounded upon the sickness of white society after his Chicago campaign ( shortly before he died). The past history and cutrent circumstances in the USA makes me desire to not be bothered with them at all...too much EXTRA baggage beyond the baggage that we all bring to the table.

 

Its kind of sad to read these posts. These are grown ass black men losing their minds because they did not get a white man's validation. Pathetic, weak negroes. These negroes are ideological descendents of those losers who snitched on Nat Turner and Denmark Vesey because they were so happy on the plantation and wanted massa good grace. With all the disasters befalling black people right now...growing income inequality,; police murders of blacks; despair and dysfunction in poor black communities due to economic and social isolation etc...these negroes are worried about whether a white man wants to sleep with them. SMH.

 

Eh, la bas mo che kouzen!

 

A few observations from skimming through this thread:

1. Black people can be prejudice too.

2. Even black men who outright say they aren't into white men feel slighted by white men. The dating equivalent of, "you can't fire me, I quit."

3. Just because the dudes you date are black, that doesn't mean they aren't fetishizing you just as much as white men. I hear just as many brothas regurgitate the "black (and Jamaican) men have bigger dicks" stereotype. Also, can't tell you how many Bottoms I've seen fetishize fitted caps, beards and tattoos on "masculine appearing" men. Shit, I would argue that most members of this site subconsciously fetishize masculine black men.

 

On this charge, I stand guilty.

 

I just joined (stumbled across this site a long time ago and have lurked) to say that some of these comments are why white guys remain as lurkers only. Some times it just seems like there is just hatred for whites and we are all lumped in together based on our lowest common denominator. Basically seeing white 'society'(whatever that really means) labeled 'sick' and pathological, etc and realizing of course, that 'white society' really means 'white people' is just too off putting in the sense that the place is just not inviting for any whites and that too many members simply do not want white people here or would be uncomfortable with their presence and commentary.

Yes I realize that you all must have gone through this kind of thing in the reverse form many, many times. But would you be apart of a website that involved it? I mean I have seen the word 'cac' used on here. I would never, and in fact, I can't remember ever belonging to any forum or messageboard(and I have been on a lot and am currently on several involving all kinds of things form urban development to weather to entertainment) that would even allow any expressed racism or the use of derogatory racial terms. That would get a warning, followed by a suspension or ban (or sometimes just an outright ban).

And just for some info yes, I did date several black and hispanic men (and I mean date as in get to know one another, go out to eat, go to movies, have dinner with friends, etc. etc..you know..dating!) mostly in the eighties before I met my partner. My partner died in 2001 and I have been(and will remain) single.

It just really saddens me and makes my heart hurt to see the what seems to be such a division among gay people. I don't know what happened when it comes to social justice issues and white gays, maybe the Aids crisis diverted things, but we are all not like what you see on apps or racist websites. In some ways it seems worse than it was 30 years ago.

 

Lol...I dont feel slighted by white men at all. I simply dont care about them. I dont need or want their validation. Not everyone is interested in them like that. Everyone is not grasping to be accepted by white men..only pathetic negroes with low self esteem need that validation and acceptance. In regards to being prejudiced against Whites....I stand accused. Whiteness is a social construct (as race, in general , is). It is an amalgamation of different europeans. Those europeans do not ethnically view themselves as being one people in Europe. For example, the anglo saxons see themselves as different from celtic people. It is a social construct that was created to enforce domination and genocide.. And has a real social import. With the bloody and genocidal nature of Anerican history ..and the current situation of Indigenous and black people..I feel ok with not particularly feeling warm and fuzzy about those who created and maintain those conditions. If that is conceived as prejudice..so be it. White racial chauvanism is the material basis for this so called prejudice amongst blacks and other people of color

 

I speak for no one on this site but myself and a lot of peoples of varying colors when I say welcome to our world. I'm sorry that you feel folks have made you feel uncomfortable on this site and I don't mean to minimize your feelings but please take a moment to magnify that by a billion 24/7 365 for generations in everyday life in EVERY facet of life and maybe you'll see why some people have the perception of what you've described.
I myself deal with negative or lessened perceptions and the feeling that my presence makes people uncomfortable EVERY single time I walk into my job or a store or drive or travel or go to pay with my debit card and am asked for ID or try to hail a cab (Praise technology for LYFT) or pass a fellow brother in blue or go to a restaurant or....

 

Lumped together by lowest common denominator?...that sounds like what white people do to people of color everyday. This a a typical reaction..condemning the victim of racialized injustice and terror for being angry about that oppression. This guy must not read the racist trolling that goes on throughout the internet. Or the racist and or insensitive comments by white gay men. Or the comments of whites supporting the extrajudicial murder of black people by police and vigilantes. Under those conditions, it shouldnt surprise white people that some blacks dont want to be bothered with them. I supposed to feel warm and fuzzy about white people when a black teenage boy cant go to the store to buy skittles and ice tea without being preyed upon by a sick racist. This is why I couldnt date a white person...even IF I was attracted to white men. The simply see the world through skewed eurocentric glasses. They seem completely oblivious about racist oppression in American society...and when that oppression is pointef out, it is met by riducule, minimizing and a defensive attitude. White people...in the main...love their darkies to be happy and accomodating to their sensibilities.

 

This is why I commented: " I have a white friend who said he was too afraid to comment, since this is, in his words an more "urban online community" and he feels some type of way, not negative but maybe he would not be accepted. I said he was being irrational." This is from the thread about 'have you told people about the site' Yes I realize that this site is focused on masculine gay black men, and also is not only a place for discussion, but a safe space for said gay masculine black men to vent. I realize that.

But I also think that it is not unreasonable for white guys to feel hesitant about the site-that is all I was saying and I probably should have mentioned the quote. This was also just related to some of the comments on this article, not on the article or the merits of the article. You stated "If men of color want to come to this site and vent about their negative experiences being on the receiving end of white racism, bigotry and prejudice, I’m not going to prevent that." which is fine, but with that I was just trying to state that the venting may make white guys hesitant to post. i disagree with some of the comments (or a few select viewpoints in a few comments), but it is hard to challenge them being white in a black space. I guess maybe I should have simply manned up and signed up and directly questioned the few comments I found disturbing and let the chips fall where they may.

I swear I did see that word 'cac' or 'cacs' somewhere-the search function is not letting me search for the word itself. Now I will probably spend hours searching for the damn thing myself! lol. And it is just short for caucasian and is not exactly the worst thing to say regarding whites. Anything said about whites, as you must know, does not have 400 years of slavery, oppression, and discrimination to back it up. It does not have the same weight or impact. And I never stated that anyone directly said they hated whites. C'mon now, what I said was misrepresented with that-you used quotation marks as if that was some kind of quote-and it was not.

I guess I will just keep reading, listening and posting, and see what happens. There is a lot here that does pertain to any gay man who is masculine(well, masculine for a white guy..lol) and who does not identify with the 'gay elite' that runs the gay narrative and who has non-traditional interests ( I hate fashion, reality TV, the drama and bullshit, 'shade' etc. and have mainly hung with masculine or in-between guys). When I stumbled across this site I actually looked for something similar, any messageboard or forum where there was actually a grown up dialog between black and white gay men, and I agree with this statement: "It’s really hard to even address when these mainstream sites don’t even broach the subject matter or topics of race in the Gay community because it’s not something that is impactful to their audiences." There is no dialog regarding race in the gay community. Which sucks. I can't even find a site for gay masculine white men that in any way really compares with this excellent site.

I guess what I was trying to convey that, 'Gay men of color having a popular centric space like Cypher Avenue to freely discuss white gay racism and race, while reading commentary on the subject matter written by masculine leaning gay men of color,..." is great, but I hope you can see how white guys might feel a bit hesitant because of this, without being 'irrational'. Maybe this is just not the space for an occasional dialog on race that actually involves whites commenting?
Maybe whites you disagree with something may not want to be perceived as racist?

Maybe we as whites just need to grow thicker skins?

Maybe I should start a thread about what members think about white gay guys on this site and get some feedback on what the actual members think about this. (Can I even start a thread being this new)? I mean there have been more than one thread about race in some form or another already, right?

Do you guys think that I am simply in the wrong space being at Cypher Avenue?

*sorry this is so damn long and convoluted.

 

"Lumped together by lowest common denominator?...that sounds like what white people do to people of color everyday. This a a typical reaction..condemning the victim of racialized injustice and terror for being angry about that oppression. This guy must not read the racist trolling that goes on throughout the internet. Or the racist and or insensitive comments by white gay men. Or the comments of whites supporting the extrajudicial murder of black people by police and vigilantes. Under those conditions, it shouldnt surprise white people that some blacks dont want to be bothered with them. I supposed to feel warm and fuzzy about white people when a black teenage boy cant go to the store to buy skittles and ice tea without being preyed upon by a sick racist. This is why I couldnt date a white person...even IF I was attracted to white men. The simply see the world through skewed eurocentric glasses. They seem completely oblivious about racist oppression in American society...and when that oppression is pointef out, it is met by riducule, minimizing and a defensive attitude. White people...in the main...love their darkies to be happy and accomodating to their sensibilities."

This is NOTHING at all like anything I said and sorry, it comes across to me as prejudiced ranting from someone who apparently also sees the world through 'skewed glasses'. You might want to consider that all white people are not monsters and not all white gay men make insensitive racial comments on the internet. I am not oblivious to racial oppression or white privelege, I did not ridicule anyone, and I did not minimize anything.

One can be angry about racialized injustice and oppression without condemning an entire race of people.

 

I can see why some white gay men may feel shy about joining or commenting on the site. While we say the site is by and directed towards gay/bi men of color, we (the creators of the site) try not ostracize white gay/bi men who may like the "style" of the site, articles and conversations here. White gay men are into "urban" culture and media too.

While we all may disagree on the racial politics within the community, we (the creators of the site) do try to curb and discourage people from using derogatory terms such as "snow queen", etc. So I agree with @ockydub about the term "cac" not being used here on the site. If it was, it slipped through the cracks. I'm familiar with the term and know that it is used excessively on many other heterosexual black message boards. So I'd recognize it if I saw it, but again, could have slipped through the cracks.

Either way, I def think the tone here from men of color regarding race is def something that has concerned me for some time. But the men are speaking from their personal experiences dealing with white gay men in the "community." I can't control that most of their experiences have been negative. I wish that was not the case...or better yet, I wish that men who have had positive experiences would speak up more often.

 

*I think I finally managed to quote someone correctly!

Actually The 'white friend' was mentioned by a black member in the thread about site members mentioning the site to friends or coworkers. That was the whole reason for my comment. That member stated that his white friend was hesitant to join because he felt 'some kind of way' and thought it was just an 'urban' site.

I was just really responding in this thread to that post in that other thread. Again I should have made it clear from the beginning post that I was responding to that issue mentioned in that post in that other thread. I was just using some examples from this thread to respond to that post in that other thread. My bad for that. To be honest I personally don't know of anyone who might be interested in this site, unfortunately. I have always liked different viewpoints, different ideas-I find that stuff stimulating. Most of my friends have been very different than me in some way, and my partner was not like me at all. I never understood why gay white guys would seem to want basically a clone of themselves...you know the type-dressing alike, looking alike, looking like damn incestuous twins!

What is the fun in that? What do you learn from that..how do you grow as a person from that?

Anyway I will try to be more careful about how I word things, and have a thicker skin(and defend myself if I feel the need to do so).

 

Lumped together by lowest common denominator?...that sounds like what white people do to people of color everyday. This a a typical reaction..condemning the victim of racialized injustice and terror for being angry about that oppression. This guy must not read the racist trolling that goes on throughout the internet. Or the racist and or insensitive comments by white gay men. Or the comments of whites supporting the extrajudicial murder of black people by police and vigilantes. Under those conditions, it shouldnt surprise white people that some blacks dont want to be bothered with them. I supposed to feel warm and fuzzy about white people when a black teenage boy cant go to the store to buy skittles and ice tea without being preyed upon by a sick racist. This is why I couldnt date a white person...even IF I was attracted to white men. The simply see the world through skewed eurocentric glasses. They seem completely oblivious about racist oppression in American society...and when that oppression is pointef out, it is met by riducule, minimizing and a defensive attitude. White people...in the main...love their darkies to be happy and accomodating to their sensibilities.

 

This is NOTHING at all like anything I said and sorry, it comes across to me as prejudiced ranting from someone who apparently also sees the world through 'skewed glasses'. You might want to consider that all white people are not monsters and not all white gay men make insensitive racial comments on the internet. I am not oblivious to racial oppression or white privilege, I did not ridicule anyone, and I did not minimize anything.

One can be angry about racialized injustice and oppression without condemning an entire race of people.

*How many times is this post gonna pop up? lol. I will just respond to it the same every time.

 

Yes, we all see the world through skewed glasses..don't we? The difference is that in America...the skewed, sick, distorted visions of white people are taken as the norm and valid. If a person of color expresses anger ..particularly...the ancestors of lynchers and Indian killers get upset about the anger...not the source of the anger.A white man can shoot up churches and abortion clinics..but they are not terrorist. White people and occupy federal land and threaten to kill law engorcement...yet they are not considered terrorist or threats. Let those actions have been carried out by Muslims of color...and I can only imagine the response. European Jews can be angry about the holocaust and say never again. European jews are still white after all. Their pain was acknowledged. Germany paid reparations to ISRAEL for over 40 years. Some European Jews refused to visit Germany for years. Yet. that indigenous people and black people are not supposed to feel a certain type of way about a people who sent typhoid infected blankets to Indian areas...as a gift. A group of people who lynched and burnt black people alive...then went to enjoy their church services. The outrages continue...Trayvon Martin, Freddie Grey etc. Where is your outrage about those incidents? Are you protesting those outrages...or are you just trolling BLACK oriented sites and policing their opinions. ( to use FOUCAULT TERM). Do you exoress such outrage at white trollers who post venomous, racist posts about people of color...that has been much commented on throughout the internet? Read a few of those comments that are posted about peope of color..and you can see why I see a sickness running through white america. Do you protest as vigorously against discriminattory carding at gay clubs? BTW...Martin Luther king after the Chicago campaign stated that he didn't realize how sick white America is Your seem oblivious to the source and the reason for the anger of some people of color.

 

I am not oblivious to the source and reason for why people of color are angry. And yes, reparations were paid by Germany, and I believe that some form of reparations should be paid for descendants of slaves. Whether cash payments, deductions, tax breaks, subsidies, etc. it should be done because everything that has been done is not enough.

I see it this way. It is like someone was assaulted and hurt, and then afterwards the assaulter paid (at least partly)for the hospital bill, lost wages, helped that person out, etc. -they kind of partly made up for what was done like what would be done in a civil case. But the assaulter never paid for the criminal penalty, a payment for doing the actual act. This is how I kind of see it. Apologies have been made for the act, but it needs to be more than that as a penalty for the act of enslaving other human beings or we as a nation will never get over the existence of slavery, not to mention improvement of race relations.

I DO express outrage at internet racist trollers. I also do so in my real life, and it has cost me at work and in other places. There is a price to pay for speaking out, as you eventually become 'that guy' who always speaks up and some people have a problem with that and you become a pariah to some people. I have filed complaints about both racism and homophobia at different workplaces(including my latest one) when the black woman in question was afraid to file it herself. It went nowhere (to our outrage and disgust) and again added to my reputation as a 'trouble maker'. I am used to not exactly being the most popular person - I have always been the 'black sheep'(no pun intended) and I have no problem with being unpopular with certain people or groups because I am used to it.

The idiots in Oregon are basically domestic terrorists, have committed criminal acts, and should be dealt with accordingly. I believe the US gov't is afraid of another Waco, and a resultant OKC bombing, which outside of 9-11, was the worst terrorist attack in the US-done by white militants/militiamen like those in Oregon.

Yes there is a sickness in America, but you simply do not seem capable of distinguishing between the sickness and those who revel in it, and those who oppose it. To you, all white people are guilty and evil if not from their own beliefs and actions, then from the actions of long dead 'ancestors' (mine did not even get here until the 1840's, never set foot in an slave state, and three male relatives with my extremely rare last name(I am the only person in the United States with my exact first and last name)fought in the Civil War for the Union. I only mention this because many white people do not even trace their ancestry that far back in the nation-many having ancestors that did not arrive until the 20th century. just sayin')

In your eyes, we are all the same, a monolithic block of racists and white devils who are evil and are all the descendants of the worst monsters of this nation's history and there is no redemption for us no matter what we do. I feel sorry for you for your apparently all encompassing hatred for an entire race of people.

Look, there is no reason to have a further discussion with you. Post whatever hateful thing you want and vent to your heart's content. I will not be responding to you again, and please, if you decide to post, do not quote me(besides this post, if you choose) in the future. And no I am not trying to 'police you'.

And if most, or even a significant(meaning more than just you)number of posters or members on here do not feel comfortable with my presence here, then please, let them message Nick or Ocky and let them know, and I want them to then let me know. I do not have to be here and if people(more than you) do not want me here, I want to know, so I can make my exit.

I realize that among other things that this is a safe space for gay black masculine men to vent about things including racism and if my presence is a hindrance to that, I don't want to be here. This is another reason I will not be responding to you again.

 

This exchange illustrates the reason why i could not date white men...even if I were attracted to them ( which fortunately, I am not. I unapologetically love my black brothas ONLY). Most whites..and I never said all whites. .just don't get it. I never said all white individuals. I even said that race is a socially constructed category. I stand by my cobdemnation

 

Yes! I just remembered the ignore button!

 

My fault...my overall indictment of white society. Whiteness was constructed as a category of domination in a racialized hierarchy. This is not particularly controversial. The 1968 Kerner report condemned white society as being deeply implicated in the precarious position of blacks in American society. This commission was composed of mostly white academics and politicians...hardly angry black radicals ( to use that tired trope). Furthermore, you have academicd luke Tim Wise ( who is white) who condemns white society in no less harsh terms than I do. Unfortunately, most entitled white men respond to any hint of anger or criticism from black people or other people of color by bashing the victim. His outrage is misplaced. With all the hate speech on the internet directed towards blacks; with the rise of neo fascist politicians like Donald Trump and the tea party; with the police murders of black people ( including 12 year old black boys) and some white people justifying those murders....I am wondering why this man doesnt direct his anger towards the perpetrators of these acts. I have never seen anything on this site ( or mostly all black sites) that would constitute hate speech. I have seen anger..sometimes harsh..directed at white racism and the experiences that some of us as people of color face while living in a majority white society. You have whole web sites advocating white supremacy and even genocide against people of color. Go to any comment section following a story involving black folk. And you will truly see hate speech of the most sickening kind. Instead of directing his energy at white racism, he wants to police black opinions and basically say that we should not be angry..and tell us how to express that anger. We don't have to go back to 1840s to see examples of white racial chauvinism. The murders of Trayvon Martin and many others by police ...and many white peoples support of those murders...are happening NOW. Like I said many times before...I cannot even inagine dating a white man. They just don't get it ( with few exceptions). What I said about white society is no different than had been said by the Kerner report, Tim Wise and many others. Its a black thing...most of them don't understand ( as the saying goes). To sum it up and bring it back to the topic of internet dating: a white man saying no blacks in his profile doesn't matter in the least to me. I don't find white men attractive physically...so I am not checking for them anyway. They also bring to much racialized baggage to the table. I LOVE BLACK MEN ( African American, African And Diaspora black men)...thats the only ones that I am checking for.

 

This is my last comment on this matter...the behavior of the white troll illustrates everything that I said about entitled white men who get upset about black anger...but doesnt seem to get as upset...if upset at all...about the source of that anger. Hit the ignore button. Place your head in the sand while black suffering increases. All too tupical...and people wonder why I have no intetedt in white nen...beyond the fact that I dont find them physically attractive. As a whole..white men just donr get it.. So I proudly say BLACK ONLY in my profiles.

 

No one group of people share a collective characteristic, despite how we tend to generalize. I can say Caribbean Latinos tend to be more open to dating black men, but there are some that wouldn't even stick a black dildo in their a$$. Same for Central/ South American Latinos, many wouldn't even entertain the idea of dating a black man, but others seek them out, some to fulfill some sexual fantasy, others because they genuinely are attracted to black dudes.
So that being said, you can pretty much answer your own question through observing the dude you're with.
1. How is yous' interaction with one another?
2. Do yous go out in public a lot, e.g. dinner, movies, bars, etc?
3. Do you know or have at least met on more than one occasion, any or all of his friends?
4. If so, how are his friends toward you? (birds of a feather...)
5. When you guys meet up, is sex usually at the forefront, or do you most times just chill and/or go out.

 

I feel you. But I've visited a city where interracial relationships, straight and gay, are the norm. And the mixture is always white paired with a minority (black, Latino, etc.). So much so that it appeared that gay black men don't even consider each other. I could literally count the black gay couples I saw on one hand...and still have a few fingers left over.

 

ockydubCare to expand your thought?​

Was this for me?

 

I would argue, especially by your definition of racism, which is some kind of inferior or superior complex between the races, is in fact, what is happening, at least, on a physicality level. The general feeling I receive is that white men feel superior in beauty and physical stature, while some other races feel inferior, especially because we all subscribe to an ideological standard of beauty and maybe even a hierarchy or racial beauty. I also at times feel inferior, I can't stand it when a six foot beefy muscular white male calls me buddy and asks me for favors. I feel like a dirty ethnic person sometimes.