All of this.
At any rate, this isn't any different than hetero-black folks who are living ignorantly blissful lives in white spaces.
SB3 hit the nail on the head though, masculine sgl black men who live black-cultured lives do not have a place of refuge when they come out to the public. Our communities don't want us and neither do white folks.
I truly think black gay men have it the hardest in this country.
Best Posts in Thread: Gay White Men of Color
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Omega Level DRACARYSThe 1000 Daps Club
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I am completely equal opportunity in who I deal with. All races can be secy to me as long as dude is indeed sexy. If I were to imagine my "perfect" partner I would love for him to be black like me, but that would probably fall number 5 or even later on the list. However, I could never relate to the "gay white man of color" and not sure even where that comes from. If I were to get into anything long term with another race or someone white (its actually highly likely I will based on recent experiences) my gay blackness is solidified.
All in all tho, Im with ya. It would be great to see more black gay men in popular media that seem to love on each other and also be relatable. Maybe one day we will.Boaxy, Krimsonic_, BlackguyExecutive and 3 others dapped this. -
OckyDub I gave the Loc'ness monstah about $3.50Site Founder The 10000 Daps Club
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This mutahfukin astute observation post here....
I have a feeling within the year we can add blue bubble vest Deray McKesson to the list.NewAfrikan, Boaxy, Cyrus-Brooks and 3 others dapped this. -
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I see what @Nick Delmacy is saying.
It's not that they are not Black anymore. It's that from the outside going by social media, they appear to be loving a nice gay white guy life. I don't relate to any of them. I haven't seen Karamo's season of The Real World since its initial run but I was a fan then because I identified with him. There were hardly any masculine Black gay out men on TV then. I was intrigued. Fast forward a few years and....I don't see what I saw then with him and what he seems to project now. But good for him.
Even with Shaun T, who I was mesmerized with, I did feel like "well damn" when his light bright behind ended up with some blue eyed blonde Ken doll boyfriend and subsequent husband.
All these men are Black, first and foremost. But I think that they definitely don't project Black Gay Culture in the way that I think the black females represent it and it's not even that they have white men on their face arms. I would say that the Hot Gay Dads give me BGC. Milan Christopher gives me BGC. These article guys don't.Boaxy, Cyrus-Brooks, takeyourmeds91 and 3 others dapped this. -
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This whole discussion:
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Nick Delmacy Da ArchitectSite Founder The 10000 Daps Club
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Hell, the Obamas were "blacker" than all of these Black gay men and they had death threats daily for being who they were.
Oprah is richer, blacker and gayer than all of us combined.Boaxy, BlackguyExecutive, ControlledXaos and 2 others dapped this. -
Cosign. But, I will say that I 'get' why they're 'passing'. In all fairness, a visible platform of black gay men who go against the images we often complain about on here, doesn't exist. Those black guys go live their lives quietly in Discreet City, USA. Thus, we end up with a bunch of isolated blk guys ostracized by the greater blk community, seeking solace where they're at least accepted, even if not celebrated. The reason why we know these men is because they operate in the gay mainstream world.
As for the women, (I fux w Lena Waithe tough because she is unapologetically black and doesn't feel the need to chirp about how she just 'happens to be blk' to make sure no white ppl in the room face a moment of discomfort), we can't ignore the fact that blk ppl typically have a much easier time w lesbains than they do gays. That obvs leads to fewer of them feeling like they're forced to choose the lesser of two evils when it comes to 'community'.Boaxy, mojoreece, takeyourmeds91 and 2 others dapped this. -
Nick Delmacy Da ArchitectSite Founder The 10000 Daps Club
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Personally for me, real life examples of Black gay culture that has been visible include:
Quincy LeNear Gossfield and husband Deondray Gossfield
Timothy Ware and husband Eugene Barry Hill
Octavius Terry-Sims and husband Jamal Terry-Sims
Juan and Gee Session-Smalls
These aren't high profile celebs, but they provide examples. And, as noted in the original post, many of the instagram pages of celebrity lesbian women of color look EXACTLY like these Black gay men I listed here.
I'm not saying that Black culture can't include privilege and a lavish 'high cultured' lifestyle that many of the celebrity black gay men project, but I do find it odd that you could instantly change the name and photos on ALL their social media accounts with random White men and said White men would never be accused of cultural appropriation.Boaxy, BlackguyExecutive, ControlledXaos and 1 other person dapped this. -
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my takeaway from this thread is simply an affirmation that blk ppl must discuss class more often. it def shapes how one experiences and expresses their blkness. i think if you came expecting a more nuanced perspective on blk celebrity and gender politics, you may feel disappointed.
reading these responses feels like watching a movie scene where blk custodians and the mailroom clerk crack on the new blk hire, VP of marketing--the only blk person in management--at the firm they service. they immediately question his authenticity.
while the thread lacks all kinds of nuance, there is validity to the belief that blk ppl historically have had to pay a price--their identity--to enter and maintain their place in white spaces. unfortunately, i think many explanations here peddled in simple uncle tom tropes which seem unfair to the successful gay blk men mentioned above.
the dominant expression of blk american masculinity is a kind of working class aloof bravado. it's seen as the most authentic blk male experience. many blk men who have a slightly to completely different male expression due to the combination of their other identities--class, sexuality, ethnicity, educational attainnent, etc--contend with this cultural expectation in some way on the daily.
blk ppl need everybody, from the ratchet to uppity negro. we can't afford to throw anybody away or dismiss them as not (blk) enough. there's a place for all of us. white supremacy will have us thinking poor blks don't work hard enough and that successful blks reject their blkness. i'm just rooting for everybody blk.
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Creepy. Well, I will forever like Black dick & don't want caucasity twink benefits
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Whew!! This post just gave me flashbacks of what originally brought me to Cypher Avenue. It all started with a bold statement of genuine interest.
I am going to have to call BS on this White Gay Men of Color shit. Regardless, all of the Black men in particular and the gay men of color, in general, are still and forever will be people of color, by virtue of physical appearance alone. I also think that you are limited in your ideas of Blackness, seems like a narrow focus of what constitutes black presentation?
I don't know any of these men personally but I don't think they are divorced from their black identity. I am friends with Capehart on FB and in some ancillary social circles and he is regularly engaged in Blackness, from the black journalist groups for which he is a member to the black reporters and journalists that are apart of his world. In many ways, he performs his blackness every day, despite his gayness and in more influential ways than other black gay men. I don't think all of these brothers are in the Glory Hole Place. Its just different construction of blackness.
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I watch Star Trek: Discovery and something occurred to me as actor Wilson Cruz lovingly kissed the White gay man that (rightfully) destroyed Kevin Spacy’s career: He’s a Gay White Man of Color.
Cruz is a prime example of what @OckyDub speaks about often: White Gay Culture overpowers almost everything Gay in its’ path, especially when it comes to men.
When I look at Cruz, I don’t see a Latino gay man. I see a tan gay White man. He’s still a great representative to the community, but you could instantly change the name and photos on ALL his social media accounts with a random White man and said White man would never be accused of cultural appropriation.
This made me wonder: Where are the notable Black gay men who I actually relate to and identify as BLACK MEN just like me?
As much as I love the dude, Karamo Brown is clearly a gay White man.
As much as he’s done for himself and others, RuPaul is still a gay White man to me.
As intelligent and well written as he is, Jonathan Capehart is a gay White man to me.
Frank Ocean started off Black and crying in a used Nissan Maxima over the loss of a DL dude (a story that every Black gay man can relate to), but once he came Out, he slowly morphed into a White gay twink.
No matter how much he defends Black culture on CNN, I still can’t help but view Don Lemon as a White gay man.
Even Jussie Smollett gives me entitled White gay man after his performance on Good Morning America.
By contrast, Lena Waithe gives me nothing but GAY BLACK WOMAN!
It’s not because she rocks fitted caps and chains. It’s because everything about her work and aura gives off unadulterated Blackness. She feels like a genuine product of our culture, struggle and lineage.
Wanda Sykes gives me gay Black woman. No matter how White her wife is, she looks and acts like she could be any of our cool Black aunts.
The list goes on: Meshell Ndegeocello, Sheryl Swoopes, Dee Rees, Tracy Chapman, Young M.A….They all remained Black after coming Out.
The men, not so much. Jason Collins, Michael Sam, Derrick Gordon, Brandon Davis…the list goes on.
There are a couple exceptions for the men, though. Rapper iLoveMakonnen is still very much a Black man even while dating a overly tatted White man.
Chance the Rapper’s younger brother, Taylor Bennett, came out as bisexual and still maintains his Blackness. But I would argue that he doesn’t live his life as a Black gay man. His most recent IG posts show him in loving heteronormal family photos with his new baby and the boy’s mother.
The majority of men of color that come out as Gay and live as Out gay men seem to become bland, whitewashed and removed of all Black/Latino culture, replaced with Caucasian Stepford Househusbands.
Am I wrong in this observation?
They all seen to be in The Sunken Place. I guess if there were a White gay equivalent to The Sunken Place, it would likely be called The Glory Hole.
That’s where they are. The Glory Hole.
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