California barber says Religion doesn't allow him to cut transgender veteran’s hair

Discussion in 'LGBT News and Events' started by OckyDub, Mar 11, 2016.

  1. OckyDub

    OckyDub is a Verified MemberOckyDub I gave the Loc'ness monstah about $3.50
    Site Founder The 10000 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    6,691
    Daps Received:
    15,036
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The planet of Memory Corpses
    Orientation:
    Homosexual
    Dating:
    Married
    Richard Hernandez.png California barber says Religion doesn't allow him to cut transgender veteran’s hair

    The owner of a California barber shop is facing scrutiny after turning away a transgender veteran on religious grounds while citing the Bible, reports the Advocate.

    Kendall Oliver, who served in the Afghanistan, made an online appointment at The Barbershop in the Los Angeles suburb of Rancho Cucamonga but when he showed up to get his hair cut he was refused service by shop owner Richard Hernandez who said they only cut men’s hair.

    Oliver explained that he identifies as male, but was told, ‘It doesn’t matter ma’am, we still won’t cut a woman’s hair.”

    “I don’t think that’s how someone should be discriminated against, whether they identify as male or female or transgender,” Oliver explained. “A person is a person.”

    According to shop owner Hernandez, he has nothing against the LGBT community, but he still refuses to cut women’s hair.

    “I have religious convictions that prevent me from cutting women’s hair,” Hernandez told CBS-LA. “It’s a shame for a man to have long hair, but if a woman has long hair, it’s her glory and it speaks to being given to her as her covering, and I don’t want to be one who is taking away from her glory.”

    According to Hernandez, he is a member of the Church of God and that his faith precludes him from cutting the hair of a woman, “even if they identify themselves as a man.”

    Despite the fact that it is illegal in California to discriminate based on gender, gender identity of gender expression, Hernandez feels the law is on his side.

    “I value the Constitution we have in this country and I hope it upholds for me as well as others,” he explained.
     
  2. OckyDub

    OckyDub is a Verified MemberOckyDub I gave the Loc'ness monstah about $3.50
    Site Founder The 10000 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    6,691
    Daps Received:
    15,036
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The planet of Memory Corpses
    Orientation:
    Homosexual
    Dating:
    Married
    Just to be clear: He didn't say he wouldn't cut a gay man's hair...he said his religion prevents him from cutting a woman's hair. Is it safe to say, he would cut the male identifying's hair once/if they had transition surgery?
     
    #2 OckyDub, Mar 11, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2016
    ControlledXaos and alton dapped this.
  3. alton

    Squad Leader The Great Debater The 1000 Daps Club

    Age:
    46
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,794
    Daps Received:
    2,781
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    You right, Ock. And quite frankly, I'm sure he'd pull the "religion card" if it was a transgender man as well. LOL But...bottom line (IMO) is it's his shop, he can do what he wants. If he wont cut your hair, go somewhere else. smh
     
    Tyroc and ControlledXaos dapped this.
  4. ControlledXaos

    Squad Veteran Most Valuable Player The 1000 Daps Club

    Age:
    48
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2015
    Messages:
    2,551
    Daps Received:
    7,196
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Atlanna
    I think it becomes a slippery slope when people are forced to do things that could easily be resolved by going to another barber, baker, event hall. Etc.

    I understand complaining about it and letting it be known but TBH I wouldn't want some to be forced to provide me with a service. I'd rather be a client of someone who wants my business.
     
    Tyroc and alton dapped this.
  5. ColumbusGuy

    The 100 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,421
    Daps Received:
    2,992
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Backwater, Ohio
    Orientation:
    Gay
    Dating:
    Not looking

    What if they refused to cut a black person's hair because it violated their religious beliefs? Or what if it was a restaurant that refused to cook for black people because it was against their religion?

    So if he said basically 'no blacks, religious reasons' you would be ok with that and would not want any protests or anything?


    If you provide a public service to the public, then you abide by the laws governing the providing of public services to the public. If you can't do that and follow the law, then get out of providing public services to the public.

    SMDH.

    *if you support this, then you support things like the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, you know, the one in Indiana that got so much heat? Because that is exactly what this is. What is the difference between denying someone service because they are a certain gender and denying someone service because they are (or are perceived as) a particular sexual orientation? Laws are laws, and principles and principles. And the law is NOT on his side, no matter what he might think, He ain't in Indiana.
     
    #5 ColumbusGuy, Mar 11, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2016
  6. alton

    Squad Leader The Great Debater The 1000 Daps Club

    Age:
    46
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,794
    Daps Received:
    2,781
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    But...bottom line (IMO) is it's his shop, he can do what he wants. If he wont cut your hair, go somewhere else. smh

    So if he said basically 'no blacks, religious reasons' you would be ok with that and would not want any protests or anything?


    No, I wouldn't. I may side eye said person, and advise other people of color not to patronize their business but, there are MORE than enough people "fighting the good fight", and I've never been the type to piss my panties every time I encounter a "racist" situation. Quite frankly (and this is going to sound f#$ked up, but whatever) I've accepted long ago that humanity as a whole is f#$ked up, and to be totally honest, I care more about animal rights and the environment than some shops that refuse service based on their religious beliefs.
     
    OckyDub and Tyroc dapped this.
  7. ColumbusGuy

    The 100 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,421
    Daps Received:
    2,992
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Backwater, Ohio
    Orientation:
    Gay
    Dating:
    Not looking
    lol well I guess I will just let this go with you.
     
  8. ControlledXaos

    Squad Veteran Most Valuable Player The 1000 Daps Club

    Age:
    48
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2015
    Messages:
    2,551
    Daps Received:
    7,196
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Atlanna
    My issue is, protesting isn't going to change minds and hearts. If people want to be ignorant and stubborn, let them. There are options. He's not preventing this person to vote, forcing them to use a specific water fountain, or not letting them use the pool.

    This individual person doesn't want to cut this other person's hair in his privately owned business. Ok. Fine. I see this as an individual choice. If this was a hotel and he denied a room because of the sexual identify not matching the "chromosomal biology" I would take a different view because in that case, he's not directly involved or has to personally interact with the guest.

    This is why I say it's a slippery slope.
     
    Tyroc and alton dapped this.
  9. ColumbusGuy

    The 100 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,421
    Daps Received:
    2,992
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Backwater, Ohio
    Orientation:
    Gay
    Dating:
    Not looking
    Sorry but this is bullshit. It is denying a public service. period. It is a privately owned business serving the public. If he does not want to serve someone he is legally obligated to serve he can have a members only private service where he can restrict membership and that is not open to the general public. He also is not the only barber there-look at the pic. It is a business. If he does not want to do it fine, but he should have at least one employee on staff at any time who is willing and able to provide the service. And it is not much different for this 'personal service' than serving someone in a restaurant either and it is not how 'personal' the service is, it is all about the person's religious beliefs.

    I don't care about their minds or hearts. I want them to follow the law. So it is all right to allow the guy to violate California law and discriminate against people, but only in ways where you(or someone else) feels it is ok or not too 'personally interactive'? THAT is the slippery slope.
     
  10. ColumbusGuy

    The 100 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,421
    Daps Received:
    2,992
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Backwater, Ohio
    Orientation:
    Gay
    Dating:
    Not looking
    If you believe this line of thinking that what this barber is doing is ok then be sure to vote Republican at the next election and vote for Trump or Cruz and vote for your local conservative Republican because this is what they want and believe in-don't vote for Hillary or Bernie because they will not (knowingly) nominate a SCOTUS judge who would be for this and would not support laws that allow people to circumvent the law and practice discrimination in public service based on religious beliefs. Check it out.
     
  11. alton

    Squad Leader The Great Debater The 1000 Daps Club

    Age:
    46
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,794
    Daps Received:
    2,781
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    I haven't read the original article so I could very well be talking out of my ass here, but who's to say another barber didnt cut her hair. He said he has religious convictions against cutting women's hair, the article didn't mention that he doesn't allow ANY of his barbers to do it, nor did it mention that any of the other barbers held his same religious views. That's the thing with The Media, it rarely tells ALL sides of the story, only what will warrant the most sensation.
     
    Tyroc dapped this.
  12. ColumbusGuy

    The 100 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,421
    Daps Received:
    2,992
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Backwater, Ohio
    Orientation:
    Gay
    Dating:
    Not looking
    He said he was the 'owner' and he said 'they' don't cut women's hair and 'he was refused service' so I am going by that. If he did provide someone else to do it, that would be great, but I don't think that is what happened from what I gleaned from the article.
     
  13. ControlledXaos

    Squad Veteran Most Valuable Player The 1000 Daps Club

    Age:
    48
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2015
    Messages:
    2,551
    Daps Received:
    7,196
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Atlanna
    If I was a Barber and you came into my shop asking for a hair cut but your hair was filled with mold and lice, and smelled like rotted durian and Bleu cheese, you can't force me to cut it if I just didn't want to do. I would send you home and request you pre wash it. If I was a massage therapist and you showed up and the last time you took a bath was last month but now you want me to touch you and now you are mad at me and wanna sue because you lack hygiene? No.

    Not only that many times, if I'm not mistaken, barbers rent those chairs from the owners so again I see it as personal.

    If you really want to extrapolate and assume I'm all for the Republicans because of my thinking on this case, it's your right to do so, you're reaching, but it's your right.
     
  14. Tyroc

    Tyroc Deactivated Account

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,032
    Daps Received:
    2,161
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    I knew I liked you for good reasons!
     
    alton dapped this.
  15. ColumbusGuy

    The 100 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,421
    Daps Received:
    2,992
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Backwater, Ohio
    Orientation:
    Gay
    Dating:
    Not looking
    'Having lack of hygiene' is not a protected status or class in California. Refusing to serve someone because of lack of hygiene is not against the law in California. Refusing to serve someone because they are a woman is illegal in California. It is that simple.

    If you walk into a restaurant wearing only a pair of pink panties, they can refuse you service because of the way you are dressed. Being what most people would consider inappropriately dressed in a public place is not a legal status protected from discrimination, That would not be illegal to refuse you service.
    If you walk in the restaurant in regular street clothes and they refuse to serve you because you are black, that would be illegal, because 'being black' is a status that is protected from discrimination by law. The same as 'being a woman' is a protected status under California law. Does that make sense?


    * and yeah, I was reaching with the Republican thing lol. but that is what they believe in.


    *Ocky only posted this shit to set me against people. SMDH *adjusts tin foil hat* Ocky is the devil.
     
    #15 ColumbusGuy, Mar 11, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2016
  16. alton

    Squad Leader The Great Debater The 1000 Daps Club

    Age:
    46
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,794
    Daps Received:
    2,781
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    LOL
     
  17. OckyDub

    OckyDub is a Verified MemberOckyDub I gave the Loc'ness monstah about $3.50
    Site Founder The 10000 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    6,691
    Daps Received:
    15,036
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The planet of Memory Corpses
    Orientation:
    Homosexual
    Dating:
    Married
    For me its kinda simple.

    Call attention to the business and then go to another business.
    The city issues a fine because the barber shop owner is breaking the law.
    The city will either say you have to cut women's hair or close down.
    Barber shop owner either complies or shuts down.

    Problem solved.
     
    ColumbusGuy, alton and ControlledXaos dapped this.
  18. ControlledXaos

    Squad Veteran Most Valuable Player The 1000 Daps Club

    Age:
    48
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2015
    Messages:
    2,551
    Daps Received:
    7,196
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Atlanna
    So fine, let's use the law to force this Barber to cut the guy's hair. What would prevent him from being petty and cutting it in a fashion that's not asthetic? What would stop him from cutting hair sssslllllooooooooowwwwlllllyyyy that he's in the chair for 4 hours?

    Let's say Kendall goes to court and wins, is he now obligated to get a hair cut from Hernandez now? Because if he sues, wins and doesn't get a hair cut, Kendall looks like he just wanted money. If he gets the hair cut and it's not a good one, he went through a lot of trouble for a bad haircut. But, I understand from the antidiscriminarion pov that it would be a win.

    I get it from the big picture here but sometimes folks need to choose their battles better.
     
    ColumbusGuy, Tyroc and alton dapped this.
  19. OckyDub

    OckyDub is a Verified MemberOckyDub I gave the Loc'ness monstah about $3.50
    Site Founder The 10000 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    6,691
    Daps Received:
    15,036
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The planet of Memory Corpses
    Orientation:
    Homosexual
    Dating:
    Married
    Reminds me of the Civil Rights activist that said when he finally went back to that one lunch counter he was earlier ejected from due to segregation. He said he ordered a piece of pie and that shit was nasty...He was like, I went through all that trouble for this?" LMAO
     
    Tyroc and ControlledXaos dapped this.
  20. alton

    Squad Leader The Great Debater The 1000 Daps Club

    Age:
    46
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,794
    Daps Received:
    2,781
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    [​IMG]
     
    ColumbusGuy and Tyroc dapped this.
  21. ColumbusGuy

    The 100 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,421
    Daps Received:
    2,992
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Backwater, Ohio
    Orientation:
    Gay
    Dating:
    Not looking
    Well damn now it looks like we all agree. And yeah, forcing them to comply does not guarantee you are going to get a good or timely haircut.
    If they did not make a big deal about it and say it was about religious reasons, there would not be a problem. If he just said 'I don't want to serve you or have you get your hair cut here just because that is how I feel' then he would have been fine. But he had to say confirm he was being biased based on religion and her gender. They do this to make a big deal out of it, just as much as the one denied getting the service is making a big deal out of it.

    It should be this easy. And I take back the devil thing. lol. Plus I been sick all week so don't judge me.
     
  22. Jaa

    Jaa
    The 100 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2015
    Messages:
    395
    Daps Received:
    665
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    Would it be more accurate for the city to state, "You cannot deny service to male-identifying customers on solely based on their biological sex," or something technical like that, since Kendall didn't want to be served as a female but as a male?

    This is Kendall Oliver, right? Any reason why you didn't post that pic?

    [​IMG]
     
  23. alton

    Squad Leader The Great Debater The 1000 Daps Club

    Age:
    46
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,794
    Daps Received:
    2,781
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Not for nothing, but would the pic really have made much difference on the overall commentary? I (and everyone else, I'm sure) pretty much figured from the initial article what she looked like.
     
  24. Jaa

    Jaa
    The 100 Daps Club

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2015
    Messages:
    395
    Daps Received:
    665
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    It's not a big deal. I just mistakenly assumed that the person discussed was the one in the pic he posted.
     
  25. Sean

    The 100 Daps Club

    Age:
    44
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2015
    Messages:
    493
    Daps Received:
    757
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    DFW
    Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Dating:
    Single
    If one has ever experienced blatant discrimination for something they have no control over and the discrimination was illegal, it's only American to sue. Im sure no one really wants to patronize any business after they've been refused service, but if you can hold them accountable in some way, by at least making them look bad or having then sweat at the thought of being sued and under increased scrutiny, I consider that a battle won.

    Protesting wont change all hearts and minds, but it changes behavior. It's like standing up against someone who always bullied you for whatever reason...you dont care what they think about you or how they feel, but when youve had it, you're gonna stand up, fight back and say you not gonna bully me again. You may get you beat up some more, but you stood up for yourself, and eventually you will stop getting bullied.
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - California barber says Forum Date
New California Law Hopes to End Anti-Black Bias In Home Appraisal Process Career, Work, Finances and Education Nov 14, 2021
"Knowingly exposing others to HIV will no longer be a felony in California." Group Discussions Oct 9, 2017
The Forgotten History of California’s Gay hip hop Scene Group Discussions Jan 4, 2017
California’s luckiest or unluckiest driver. Mental, Medical and Sexual Health Apr 5, 2016
Why 'Harlem' Is Being Called Out Over A 45-Second Barbershop Scene Television and Web Series Dec 7, 2021

Share This Page

Loading...