#GayMediaSoWhite... and Water is Wet

Discussion in 'LGBT News and Events' started by OckyDub, Apr 1, 2016.

  1. OckyDub

    OckyDub is a Verified MemberOckyDub I gave the Loc'ness monstah about $3.50
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    We have talked about this for years on Cypher Ave. Because we are not a mainstream Black Queer/Fem leaning publication we've always gotten crickets. Now a Black Fem Rapper/Musician comes out with the hashtag and wouldn't you know it...it's blowing up.



    Doubt anything will change. As evident in the response from a white gay person.
     
    #1 OckyDub, Apr 1, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2016
  2. Cyrus-Brooks

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    Fems do control narrative within gay culture so it shouldn't be surprising that it took a fem black guy to rock the boat. The folks on CA are persona non grata in mainstream gay media for obvious reasons. That said I'm glad the issue is finally being addressed.
     
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  3. alton

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    LMFAO. I'm sorry, I can't help but chuckle at the dude's response. I'm hearing the stereotypical "White Chelsea Twink" gay voice in my head. "You weren't invited...SWEETHEART"
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. OckyDub

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    LOL I laughed when I saw it also BUT his response to me encapsulates what I think/feel is the mindset of a LARGE portion of the white Gay community.
     
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  5. alton

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    Oh of course it is. Without a doubt!
     
  6. Cyrus-Brooks

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    I've made this point before and I'll make it again white gay people are raised with the same white supremacist mindset as straight white people. One shouldn't be surprised by their attitude or actions. If you actually take the time to think about it white gay activism is not about equality just like white feminist activism isn't about equality. It's about gaining full access to the benefits of whiteness.
     
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  7. ColumbusGuy

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    It is not that simple. Yes that is true to an extent but(excuse the expression) that way of looking at it is too black and white-to extreme-with no shades of gray. Rarely in life is anything at all that clear cut. And not all white people are raised the same way with the same attitudes even about things like white supremacy. Are all blacks raised alike?

    So a liberal couple with liberal friends and many kinds different friends and acquaintances who know people of color as friends and know what they go through and is aware of the privileges they get being white is going to raise their child the same way as a conservative religious couple with all white conservative friends who actually believe that there is a thing called 'black privilege'? Really?

    In fact, just that statement alone is a pile of bullshit like a line from some equivalent of Mao's 'Little Red Book'-just a banal talking point. White gay activism is full of shit, but not quite and completely in that way. And current third wave feminism is not about equality and it is not about the benefits of whiteness-it is about supremacy-of having the benefits of equality and the benefits of chivalry-while forgetting the flip side of the coin of chivalry, which is male chauvinism.
     
  8. OckyDub

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    I hear what you're saying but feel what you're describing is not the norm....That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The mindset or ideology that @Cyrus-Brooks is referring to is heavily reflective in the mass media that is controlled by mainstream white gays....hence the reason and popularity of the hashtag #GayMediaSoWhite.
     
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  9. OckyDub

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    [​IMG]
     
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  10. SB3

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    Black ppl just arent on white people's radar...gay or straight..unless you're rich and/or famous. Just like that white man in the club doesn't want, or even notice, you, neither does the Advocate, Out, or _______.
    So, what next?
     
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  11. ColumbusGuy

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    It is one thing to call out the media, and mention what you think of a large portion of the white gay community. You qualified it as it should be qualified. Cyrus-Brooks did not. And 'large' is a variable term..alot, most, half?-it depends. What he said was like some line out of a 'hate all white people' book. Also it is one thing to call out the gay mass media, and another to characterize 200 million people as a monolithic bigoted block-all he showed was his own entrenched bigotry.
    And no, not all gay white people who want equality just want the same privilege that white straight people have. We again are not a monolithic block seeking the same things. That is ridiculous and it needs to be called out. Yes a lot of whites gay and straight are oblivious to what blacks face, but not all-many do care whether you want to believe it or not. To paint 200 million people with the same broad bigoted brush is just not ok with me.

    If you speak in absolutes you can expect to be called out on it. I don't give a fuck if this is a black run, black oriented site or not-if I disagree with something vehemently and feel it is knee-jerk bigotry I will call it out. And that is what that was. if that is too much then you, @Ockydub or @Nick Delmacy can ban my ass. I will call out bullshit when I see it.

    I have done the same thing myself(not necessarily here) and have been called out. If I realize I was too broad in a characterization I will clarify it and admit it. If I am called out here I will honestly look to see if what I did or said was inappropriate and take action to correct what was said. I am not going to just let bullshit racially biased crap go by without saying something. I don't care what site it is on. So ban me bro if you want.
     
  12. ColumbusGuy

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    Unless things have radically changed in the last couple decades, That is not what I experienced. I would talk to a black guy as readily as a white guy. And at a club. That is how I ended up dating some black guys. And I was considered attractive at the time. Why does it have to be all or nothing. All are X or all are Y?

    Yeah the media sucks especially the gay media but they tend to ignore a lot of people who do not meet the rich, young, hot, famous. Most white gay people do not fit in those categories. When do they talk about the not so young gays, the not so wealthy gays? The working class gays? The not so attractive gays? They have an agenda-but not all white gay people are for that agenda or buy into that agenda.

    Once again with the all or nothing, extremes. Right. NO white people care about black people in the US. All 200 million of us just do not give a shit and never have. *sigh*
     
  13. OckyDub

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    smh...Ban you for what; because you have a different opinion or expressing your POV? That would be dumb right? I just think what you're saying is the outliers and not the norm. Even the most liberal or progressive white person can still have racial biases or blind spots. Bernie Sanders is a good example of this.
     
  14. OckyDub

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    I hear what you're saying am I'm not saying I disagree.

    I think using qualifiers like; a lot, some, many, or a large portion of, really would not change the attitude or experiences being expressed by Black homo/bi/gay men at the hands of White America and by extension White Gay America.
     
  15. ColumbusGuy

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    What you said is not the same as this: "white gay people are raised with the same white supremacist mindset as straight white people. One shouldn't be surprised by their attitude or actions." Are you saying Bernie Sanders has a 'white supremacist mindset' and was raised with a 'white supremacist mindset'...or are you saying he has been influenced by being white in a society that is infused with white privilege? -they are two different things. I don't think that the 'norm' is that white people are white supremacists.

    I think the norm is that white people are unaware of their white privilege and are ignorant of what black people face. Some do fit this definition "White supremacy or white supremacism is a form of racism centered upon the belief, and promotion of the belief, that white people are superior in certain characteristics, traits, and attributes to people of other racial backgrounds and that therefore white people should politically, economically and socially rule non-white people." but most white people think this? All? I don't think so. And that definition is how I see 'white supremacy' as opposed to other things like 'white privilege' or plain old ignorance.
     
  16. OckyDub

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    Correct white supremacy and privilege are different but because of white supremacy, white privilege exist. You can't have one without the other.

    Just curious, in your opinion, out of the white US population, what percentage do you think is racist or harbors racial biases against non-whites?
     
  17. ColumbusGuy

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    If you want to see white minds close when you need allies (and being 14 percent of the population, I think you do), then keep skipping the qualifiers. Not using qualifiers puts people on the defensive and will make. things. worse. How would you respond to a white guy discussing black crime and not using any qualifiers? Instead of a small percentage of blacks commit crimes...he just says blacks commit crimes. Does that make you more receptive to whatever his message is? How does it make you feel?


    When I see shit like that I call it out-it pisses me off. I use the example of Indianapolis, plagued with a relatively high crime rate, not so good race relations, and whites going off(do not read comments on any Indy media) about 'dangerous blacks"

    I point out a study done by someone(maybe the police?-can't remember) that shows that nearly all of the serious crimes committed by blacks in Indianapolis are committed by a small group of between 1,000 and 2.000 hardcore criminals-out of a population of blacks in Indianapolis that now probably is at or above 250,000. When people say 15% of blacks have been to jail I point out that therefore 85% have not. I just don't let bullshit extremism go by unchallenged whether it is race related or not-and that is what I felt I responded to in that post
     
  18. ColumbusGuy

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    Because white supremacy dominated the past of this nation, structural problems like institutionalized racism exist that contribute to white privilege. Because white supremacy existed at all at any time and dominated the nation and the formation of institutions is why white privilege exists. White Supremacy(per the definition I used) does not have to currently dominate to have set the pattern of national institutions and many white people being blind to how those institutions developed. And yes white supremacy exists still, but I don't think the thinking that white people are superior is dominant. It exists and makes things worse, but I do not think it dominates society-again I am going by the definition I used for what this is. I actually think a good portion of whites have good intentions but do not know what the hell to do. They (we) are ignorant of many of the problems and certainly ignorant of any solutions. We have a serious problem discussing racial issues between the races in this country as you well know.

    As to your question, I don't know as I have not spoken to all of the 200 million white people in this nation. But I do know that some do not harbor racial biases and in fact search themselves to see if they still harbor such feelings and do a sort of 'regular mental cleansing' to keep bias and prejudice from establishing(or reestablishing) itself, so therefore I know that not ALL white people are White Supremacists at least. Again whenever I see all or nothing responses...all x or all y, I immediately detect bullshit because I have learned through hard experience that very very little in life is that black and white, yes or no, good or bad.

    Speaking in extremes is often the talk of the troublemaker, the ignorant, or the people blinded by their own ideology or dogma. See Donald Trump for an example.
     
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  19. OckyDub

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    When some idiots in the BLM movement stormed a college library and shouted at a white girl and said "Fuk your white tears", I thought it was stupid and ignorant. In reply some white people said "I supported BLM but because of this incident, I will no longer be an ally."

    If one incident turns you off from a movement, guess what. That means you weren't an ally to begin with.

    If the shyt Louis Farrakhan says makes white people not want to support Black causes, then your services are not needed. To me that means you are influancable and can't think on your own.

    As stated before, I agree with you, quantifies are needed in conversation/s as to not generalize; HOWEVER, using these quantifies will not change the observations of the Black experience.
     
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  20. grownman

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    Is that Blake against Philly? I know they ain't the Magic in blue-thank God!
     
  21. ColumbusGuy

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    Some white people said that...probably in an emotional response. The rational thing to do would be to let them know that you thought it was stupid and ignorant. If you want whites to help then you are going to have to educate them because they are ignorant(we) are ignorant about much of this-nobody is perfect and those activists went over the line but they themselves were caught up in what was happening and I would not immediately reject them but want to talk to them rationally and reasonably and work things out.

    Shit black people died trying to get shit done, win allies to get legislation passed, and you are going to just write people off because of that? because people are human and can be two steps forward, one step back? Well when you find you master race of perfect people to by your allies, let me know.

    And no it may not change the observations of the black experience, but it will probably change the reception black people get and the response from whatever non-black person they are interacting with-not that any of that is important, right?

    Also the responses to BLM and to Farrakhan are just that-responses to that group and that individual. That does not mean those people will not support ongoing efforts to decrease racial discrimination and decrease institutional racism. The response was 'I won't be an ally of BLM'-not I hate black people now, or I will not work to help any black people now. And BLM has not exactly been the best at PR and getting it's message out very well to begin with IMHO.

    Nick is not so fond of BLM group either so I have understood(correctly I hope)..does that mean he is an enemy of black people as well?

    *The post I quoted that started all of this off comes across like all white people are the enemy of black people. Do you agree with that? Does Cyrus-Brooks think that? That we are all just white supremacists and none of us give a good goddamn about racial injustice? Really?
     
    #21 ColumbusGuy, Apr 2, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2016
  22. OckyDub

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    LOL no man...I really doubt anyone here thinks that. BUT, if they did, can you possibly understand why their reaction and that outlook could exist?
     
  23. ColumbusGuy

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    Yes. And I would also expect them to not get a pass if they post stuff that reflects that outlook. Bigotry is bigotry, racial discrimination is racial discrimination-and it needs called out What I would have a harder time understanding would be everyone just posting away and ignoring it as if it were a perfectly ok reaction and outlook to have. As I said, I call stuff like that out. I don't understand why others do not. Silence is almost like tacit consent, unspoken agreement. If someone ranted on about how Hitler was so great and people let it pass, would you not only wonder about the ranter, but also the ones who gave the ranter a pass by not responding and calling them out? (and no, I am not comparing C.B. to a person like this, a Hitlerite, etc. )

    At the very least I would want to know more information, to know why they had that outlook and reaction.
     
  24. ColumbusGuy

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    Not that any of this really matters. My opinion is among the least desired on any subject by anyone given who I am and where I am at in life. I am done with this for now.
     
  25. SB3

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    Cmon now, we all know what is implied w the 'all or nothings' as u call them. All white ppl weren't for slavery, but no one bothers to state that during the convo at hand.

    I agree that the everyday man is overlooked. However, just like when it comes to black representation, the powers that be are 'just not that into you'. It's unfortunate, but take a look around at the world we live in.
     
  26. Cyrus-Brooks

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    Did I say all whites were raised the same? No I didn't but regardless of how they're raised they're still apart of and benefit from a white supremacist culture to deny that fact is to deny reality. I choose not to obfuscate or sugar coat. To expect white gay people not to be racist as a group is silly and unrealistic.
     
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  27. ColumbusGuy

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    I think from what you stated it was implied implicitly if not explicitly when it comes to how white people are raised with regards to race and racism
    . I do not think that people who are ignorant of white privilege and yet still benefit from it while being ignorant of it are necessarily white supremacists. Maybe our definitions of white supremacy and white supremacism differ. I should have simply asked you what you meant by what you said rather than assume so I do apologize for that-I should have clarified first.

    I think speaking in total absolutes is usually not sugarcoating or obfuscating, but instead is intellectually dishonest and inaccurate and leads to misunderstandings. And I don't think you can say 'white gay people as a group'-since the only thing that white gays have in common is a same sex attraction. There is no 'white gay group' that all white gays fit into, so are you saying that some white gays are racist or all white gays are racist, or that all white people are racists or white supremacists- what do you mean? And how do you define racism and white supremacy?

    And I appreciate people who are straightforward and upfront with things-I am not sure this falls into that category however.

    I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on most of this.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
     
  28. ColumbusGuy

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    No apparently we all don't. Not when it comes to an issue like this-maybe it is just me and how I view certain important issues? Maybe it has to do with the issue and being on the 'receiving end'(no pun intended)? I say fuck the 'powers that be'-they get away with what the average person allows them to get away with-which is a lot, as they have divided and conquered us 'everyday people' very well.

    And yeah all white people were not for slavery, but we allowed it to exist for far longer than we should have for a number of reasons. Why did it take the US so long to end slavery-after most other nations like England and France has done away with it years earlier? Spain 1811, Britain 1833, France 1848. Hell Vermont banned it in 1777! We had to have a damn civil war which ravaged much of the nation and killed about one of of every sixty Americans-by far our deadliest war with over 600,000 dead out of a population of only about 31 million. We are a special case and not in a good way when it comes to slavery and racial discrimination.

    I do think that we might be in a 'step back' position right now. As in two steps forward, one step back, as is shown with the white anger and Trump and 7 years of ceaseless bigotry because we have a black president and blacks actually rightly calling out the police when they abuse their power and can back it up and publicize it through the internet(now that they have evidence from cellphones). We are in a time of increased racial tension, and one can only hope that we emerge better off because of it in the end.

    Progress in difficult areas does not usually come nice and easy.

    And I have admitted many times(I am sure I have on here somewhere) that overall, gay whites have failed miserably when it comes to helping gay people of color. I have speculated on why that may be, if white gays were caught up in the AIDS crisis and if that or other things caused social justice to be on the backburner and if progress in those areas was derailed by that or by societal shifts in general like the neo-conservatism of the 80's or simply a withdrawal into 'self' as a response to the mass dying of the 80's and early 90's from which we have yet to recover? I don't have the answer but I know there is a problem with white gays not supporting/reaching out to/helping gays of color. I just don't think that means all or most of us are heartless racists.
     
    #28 ColumbusGuy, Apr 2, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2016
  29. SB3

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    *No1 is calling most white ppl heartless racists.

    *Slavery lasted sooo long in America because it was a huge part of ppls wealth. Hell, black ppl owned slaves!

    *Fvck the 'powers that be' by not pulling out your wallet.
     
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  30. ColumbusGuy

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    Ok my allergies are killing me plus I pulled my back and can barely move. which one of y'all put a curse on me for this thread?
     
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    [/QUOTE][/QUOTE]


    Regardless of their personal situation or upbringing white people regardless of there sexual orientation in this country are brought up in a culture that tells them they're superior to non-whites, especially black people. There is no denying that. It's not something you should take personally like someone is calling you a racist. Also you also can't deny the fact that gay media is overwhelmingly controlled by affluent white people. In the rare instances non-white lgbt people are shown it's almost always in an interracial context. This helps gives ammunition to homophobes in the black community that "homosexuality is a white man's disease." Of course not all white people or white gay people are racist or white supremacists. They don't have to be. White supremacy is so pervasive that it is self sustaining. It doesn't need all white people to be racist in order to function, yet all white people benefit from it, including white gay people.
     
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