Is Your Religion Keeping You From Finding a Good Man?

I agree religion doesn't make a perfect relationship, but being equally yoked is important to me!

 

@ocky You're always attacking believers . Let it go already . You say you are an unbeliever ,so what's all the various posts about attacking believers? Gays aren't really into believing , right? So it's almost as if you have an unresolved personal issue or love/ hate relationship with faith. It's all ironic to me. Especially coming from someone who is in a long term relationship that is almost certain not to be based on pure hedonism. Black people kill me with this non believing trip that many are on these days. Especially when most successful blacks were raised by at least one VERY BELIEVING caregiver that probably contributed to any resemblance of stability in their life. The spiritual world is very real. The elite believe me constantly throw their signs and symbols in all of our faces . Willful ignorance or apathy is the only explanation for not believing in unseen intelligent forces.

 

In answer to the question of the post. No. Having faith or believing in a diety does not equal quality or integrity. That's obvious through history. Like Chelsea I agree being evenly yoked, whatever that is between the two involved is more important.

 

I'm mos def here for this post. I've fallen in love with two dudes that let their religious hang ups get in the way of what could have been a fruitful relationship. In both situations, I made the decision to walk away. And they always came back, to no avail of course. To echo the sentiments of ole girl Fantasia (not a fan, but it's appropos), I got no time for it. Either we doin this, or nah. I try to make sure that I give folks the benefit of the doubt, regardless of my past experiences. But these two have definitely made me wary of gay/ bi Christian dudes. I can't with them bruh.

 

As long as we have the same values,I don't care what he believes in.If he believes in God,the Brahman ,or the Mother the Maiden &Crone,but only for the sake of being able to check religion off his checklist like a politician ,and has no actual values,then it won't work.If he is Athiest or Agnostic,and judges me for having beliefs,it's also going to fail.

Basically,you gotta take it at a case by case basis.Generalizing leads to potentially missing out.I believe in one ultimate source of creation,but my oldest friend is a pagan.As long as you two synch up ,your theories on who or what runs the universe don't really have to.

 

I think with black women they want to have a trophy on Sundays to show off to other single black women and be in the "I's Marriedt Naw!" club.

I get wanting to be with someone who has similar goals and ideals but that doesn't require a particular religion. People think that going to church and praying the loudest is going to get them to heaven. No. Part of the main reason why I fell out of going to church is because of other humans who try to use their beliefs as a way to make themselves feel superior to others.

"you better get right with God!" when they probably have a rocky history of hoeism themselves.

"this weather is bad. It's raining in Kosciusko and volcanos in Figi! We are in our last days!" No we are not. This planet has always had weather of all types simultaneously.

"ion won't no trans folks in the baffroom wit me! " they been in the bathroom with you since the modern age. You just didn't know or care until Target's policy went viral.

So I'm definitely not one for" church folks "like that.

One of my exes used to say that I shouldn't jack off without him because that's" spilling the seed " well WTF have we been doing? We ain't finna be making a baby.

 

Well about the white gays part, I have not seen religion being brought up that much really. Maybe it is something that might happen in certain areas(Appalachia, the Bible Belt in the South, etc.) but it is not really an issue, or if it is it is not an all or nothing proposition. My partner went to church-I did not. So I confirm what Ocky said about that part anyway. Also many of the ones who are religious/go to church go to liberal congregations. You don't see many Baptist white gays around here anyway.

*If you look at what is going on with the Methodists, and the schism that is there and was recently brought to a head by many ministers 'coming out' on May 10th and all, the one couple that got married and was headlining this- that minister was the minister of my partner's church back in the day.

Also you can have someone who is a believer with a non-believer as long as the basic personal ethics are in place-the basic 'don't lie, cheat, steal, etc' stuff that people should have a grasp on as children before they even hit school. You can be a non-believer and still agree with most of the basic stuff in say, the Bible without swallowing it whole and instead, just think of it is as decent book of fiction with many good ideas(and some bad)-agreeing broadly in the Judeo-Christian ethic in a general sense. It does not have to be 'saved vs heathen' as so man very religious people seem to think. At least for the white gay community anyway.

Also this seems to focus on Christianity vs non-belief. I have found among the white gays that there is more variation than that-I for example do not believe in any organized religion or an afterlife, but I would say I am more of an agnostic than atheist- you never really do know as far as I am concerned. Hell maybe the Flying Spaghetti Monster deity is true-I can't prove any of it one way or another. I see this in a lot of white gays- belief in God...but more of a personal thing and not so related to an organized religion. Also there are more varied beliefs, including Wiccan and Buddhist/Hindu/etc out there. Usually these people are much more relaxed about their religious beliefs than the Christian(or God forbid(no pun intended)Muslim gay).

*Some of 'the gheys' seem to not have a grasp of the basic ethics thing, the stuff you should have a grasp of before you hit school, though. Sometimes you see more of a 'climb my way to the top using the knives in other's backs as a ladder' thing.

 

@Ocky, I think your approach to this is somewhat misappropriated. A person's faith is at the core of who they are, at times. It can shape their values, how a person thinks and how they behave and interact with others. Whether we agree with ones faith and how they practice it or not, it is extremely sacred to them. Just as you have your very impassioned beliefs about A,B, or C, so too do people who believe in the Lord, God, Jehovah, Allah, Buddah, Hinda, Jimi Hendrix, etc. Whenever we state preferences of any sort, we are gonna exclude a contingency of potential good catches. That's just the way things work. As it has been mentioned before, being "equally yoked" is more important than anything, so there's nothing wrong with having a preference that someone share the same beliefs as you. A man believing in or having faith in a deity doesn’t necessarily equal quality or integrity, but that's not the point. It's about being on one accord with who you choose to spend your life with. If a dude wants another dude he can go to church with, there's nothing wrong with that. We may think he's limiting himself, but that's his prerogative. If he's fasting and praying enough, the Lord will send him somebody. Lol.

 

I definitely don't equate religious beliefs with integrity or quality but I will say that most of the non-Christian black gays I've come across are militantly anti-Christian. There is no "live, and let live" mentality coming from them which is why it's probably so important for many to specify that they need a "God fearing man." Who wants to subject themselves to being with someone who is constantly challenging their religious beliefs every time it comes up? I also think, if you're planning on raising a family, that being of one accord when it comes to religion is important and many black gay men want to have children. Finally, there are cultural aspects to organized religion that can play a role in the way a person acts and behaves. I think that it's a legitimate requirement for some. For me, I'd only really care if we decided to raise children.

 

I MAY NOT BE ABLE TO QUOTE THE BIBLE AS ALL THE REST BUT I DO KNOW THIS. >>>> YOU CAN HAVE DESIRE FOR MEN , YOU CAN WISH FOR A GOOD MAN , YOU CAN EVEN CRAVE & LUST FOR A GOOD MAN . BUT YOU NEVER PRAY TO " GOD " AND ASK FOR A MAN TO HAVE SAME SEX RELATIONS WITH [ NEVER ] . <<<< //// YOU CAN PRAY AND ASK " GOD " FOR LOVE IN YOUR LIFE , FOR GOOD FRIENDS , FOR THAT RIGHT SOMEONE OF THE OPPOSITE SEX FOR MARRIAGE . ----- IF YOU ARE LUCKY TO FIND A GOOD GUY OR WOMAN [ IN SAME SEX ] , THE BOTH OF YOU NEED TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH " GOD " . THEN ENJOY YOUR LIFE & BE THE BEST PERSON YOU CAN BE . { JUST MY 2 CENTS }

 

I wonder if he thinks straight people who have intercourse with condoms are being wasteful too.

 

Praise by DreG posted Sep 10, 2015 at 3:26 AM

 

I take putting God first to mean that someone will always want their set of values and ideals to be at play in the relationship,and that they want their partner to share that same set of beliefs and values.They want their values to lead the relationship,where it goes,and how they grow as people.

Sure,I agree a lot of people only follow their religion because it's what was presented to them in their culture ,the same way many blindly believe what they hear on the news or read on the internet,but we can't discount people who believe as they do because that's what personally clicks with them.Some people have very personal reasons as to why they followa certain creed,and those shouldn't be seen as lacking agency.

 

Judgment on that scale(which is a form of prejudice) against any group is always wrong.That's why I say we shouldn't discredit anyone for the beliefs or lack of (or lifestyle) in general because they can still have their own autonomous reasons for their conclusions.

Having spiritual belifs shouldn't be looked down upon ,or blamed for the world's calamity .It'd persist even in it's absence because the same @ssholes would use another tool to manipulate people.(South Park's Go God Go sums up my feelings on that pretty well).

The issue is how people try to use their faith,knowledge or whatever (money,fame,influence).That's probably what people on both side of the coin keep forgetting(and is porbably why some people think their mate has to have the eaxct same beliefs).

 

This.

Because people feel like that their way is the only way. "only one God" types. This statement is judgemental because it shades anything other than Christianity. I don't understand why we can't just accept that other people have other belief systems. People get so caught up in their team that they don't even want to learn about other beliefs just from a general view.

It's not impossible for people who are of different faiths to have relationships. If your goals are the same and you are compatible on every other level, someone who doesn't have a faith, has a belief system or doesn't have the same religion as you, should not be discounted.

"godless" people are not evil or don't have what people consider "morals."

 

I wasn't going to wade in this pool, but I did laugh to myself imagining Jesus wearing some iPhone earbuds, listening to Aloe Blacc's "The Man," walking by Ocky's house and throwing up a bad finger (lol).

Although, I did learn a new phrase in these here parts, "equally yoked." Having avoided church (but not necessarily religious philosophy) like the plague my whole life, I never heard that one, but knowing what a yoke is, its uses throughout human history for non-farming purposes, I don't think I'd want to be "equally yoked" to anybody. It sounds like two slaves or horses being driven by a slavemaster or horse driver. That's a god I don't need. In that respect, I suppose that's what I share with Ocky: recognizing the murderous, rapacious and human trafficking that's at the core DNA of the Isrealite religions that most black folk belong.

Nope, I want a man that's equally ambitious, talented, curious, upstanding, inquisitive, humorous, etc. ... But not "yoked." That's some slave language shyt to me.

On another note, I do think one can be spiritual, even relationally deistic. So, while I wouldn't discount a brotha for believing in God, any psychological traits that come along with how most people practice religion is a deal breaker. And any belief in God that doesn't or refuses to deal with the realities that black, particularly black gay/bi men must face has got to go. If you're down with James Cone, Malcolm X, Cornel West or David Walker's Appeal, me, you and your god can hang; else no go.

When I was younger, I had a friend that was the godson of a nationally know so-called "black leader." A brilliant, young, black male, student leader, charismatic...definitely somebody who could have gone places. I say gone, because he hanged himself in his dorm room over guilt from being bisexual and how his family, this so-called "leader" and the church would feel about his secret sexual life. At the funeral,the minister refused to give a eulogy because suicide and gay sex were "sins" (he actually slammed the casket shut in front of the family and attendees to make the point), so he had a lay member deliver the service. I've never even so much as assaulted another human being but that day was the first time in my life that i actually could have pictured myself committing murder against another human being (the minister). All of that because: religion. Had he not killed himself in college 20 years ago, he probably would have later on, living a closeted life as a conservative, married man with kids, but on the DL, cause: religion.

Ock, don't know if you listen to rock, but this song from British band XTC (one of my faves) pretty much sums my whole take on the subject:

 

Church Phish = mostly (if not wholly) religious versus spiritual...


I'll pass...

 

..."Mother the Maiden &Crone"
Okay for the Hecate reference. LOL

 

ALL ah dis 'ere...

 

Blessed Be Lol

 

Religion is definitely keeping some gay men single. My ex was one of those holy rollers who was in his mid-30s and still not able to be himself b/c of the church. Not only that but he was an elitist and was ignorant to scripture thanks to his church (the irony), he was basically brainwashed to believe a bunch of bull that wasn't even in the Bible. I'm a spiritual person but not religious and I study the Bible so I know it well ... but yeah i can't stand these church queens in bondage to religion and always will feel sorry for them long story short. I can really make this a lengthy post but please note Jesus came to free us and don't expect us to be sinless which is why He died for our sins ..... he covered every sin that we will ever commit as long as we accept Him, the end.

 

I am of many minds on this discussion because I think Ocky raises more than one issue, and also because of my own experience.
Regarding Ocky's point

, I wonder if someone who requires a man who puts God first is looking for assurance that that man will not lie, cheat or steal. Could it be rather that he is looking for someone who shares a common experience and with whom he can grow in his faith? But, even here, there are no guarantees - over the course of a long (2 decade plus) relationship, it was precisely this element, the put God first element, that pushed us apart - there were only so many times I could listen to the war on Christmas diatribe, only so many times I could answer the question do you believe in Darwin/evolution? A lot went in to our breakup, but the perceived lack of God in me was a big part of it.
I would also observe that on dating sites I find a lot of guys include God or Jesus in the list of important things int their lives - I shied away from them until a friend advised me that guys just feel they have to list it, that it doesn't meant anything. I have not yet had the chance to test that, but i am now a little less likely to disqualify someone on that basis.
And finally, i agree with Ocky that this is a serious question, and I think it comes from the fact that the church has historically been such an obstacle to personal realization for gay men of all colors, that for those of us who recognize the damage done by the church and oppose the privileged position granted to the church, someone who looks for someone who puts God first still has some issues that need to be resolved.

 

They certainly do (I wasn't aware what I said somehow denied that.) In that same vein of thought, atheist governments have outlawed Christianity as well (the father of Marxism outright stated that communism begins with atheist belief because essentially the government is god.) Any form of extremism can lead to persecution and abuse.

 

This.

I am just as annoyed by overbearing Christians as I am by overbearing atheists. It's always the extremes of any group, who don't represent the majority, that cause problems.

 

The problem with conversations like these is that we can't look past the negativity of Christianity to consider the fact that there are individuals in this world who practice other religions and individuals in the world who believe other things and are committed to an array of values and principles. Religion is how some people live their lives. Again, regardless of our views toward those religions and/or beliefs or how individuals acquired their beliefs, it's their beliefs.

Equally yoked is a religious expression that basically means, we're on the same page. Yeah, the Bible is full of slavery and hypocritical shit, but the point of that expression is basically--we are on the same level, mentally, spiritually, and the context can be stretched beyond that.

But let's consider the following, outside the context of religion.

*Mike believes in holistic living. No processed food, no chemicals or hormones or pesticides in produce and meat...everything is organic. He believes smoothies are God and religiously has one every morning. He wakes up every morning at 6am to mediate and pray, doesn't believe in arguing and does community service every weekend. He is committed to this lifestyle and would love a special someone he can share this lifestyle with.

*Johnnie believes in hard work, financial responsibility and independence. He religiously watches every penny he spends and, frankly, is cheap. Work comes first and foremost, leaving little time for play. This is how Johnnie's chosen to live his life. While he is happy, he would love to meet someone with the same work ethic and .

*Rashad believes in hitting the gym 5-days a week, no matter what. He's religious about fitness and prefers someone who is also committed to the same lifestyle.

These examples highlight what can easily be construed as religious beliefs and practices for the sake of this argument. What is so foolish about wanting someone who shares these beliefs and discounting those who are not when it comes to how you live your life.

Religion is a way of life for a lot of people. It has it's flaws, but it is what it is. I don't think it's foolish to not want to date someone who, not only shares the same way of life, but the same outlook on life as well.

 

The reality is that a person's religion is what they do, not what they profess. So, you're right, a person shouldn't say, "You're a (fill in the blank)" and then proceed from there.

I'm trying to get in the habit (and I am not perfect in that respect!) of explaining a concept when speaking/writing rather than just use a convenient label. Maybe the thread topic could be titled "Is Your Belief System Keeping You From Finding a Good Man?" That broadens the thought process as everyone has an operative system they live and act by, whether they put a religios label or not.

Lol Mike and the smoothies...when I see those Whole Foods type in my town, makes me want to throw up two thumbs from a Prius and shout, "Good for YOUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!" (apologies to South Park)

 

I'm an atheist and I'm in a relationship with a man who believes in the Abrahamic(Christian god). The way we handle it is we agree do disagree on the subject of god. It also helps that he's not overly religious or a church goer. I accept that he believes in Yahweh "God" and Jesus. He also accepts that I've come to the conclusion all gods and all religions, including Christianity are fraudulent. We leave it at that.

 

Religious people especially Christians love to link Marxist/Leninist/Communist governments to atheism. These governments and philosophies are not purely atheist. They are statist. Meaning that they simply replace worship and servitude to god with worship and servitude to the state. In essence they're simply replacing one god with another. It should also be noted that even Soviet Russia allowed the Russian orthodox church to be reinstated under Joseph Stalin and Communist China currently allows the practice of religion they just tightly regulate it so that it doesn't undermine the authority of the Communist party.

 

My point is you can have an atheist state with the same draconian attitudes of oppression towards religious institutions. Once again, extremism and human nature is the issue. If you have negative feelings towards something and have the power to make that go away, you will use everything in your arsenal, including your faith in your belief system, to make it happen and justify it. Or at least most people will.

 

My point is totalitarian states ruled by Communists/Leninists are not purely atheist. They have a god and that god is the state. But even statists will tolerate religion as long as it doesn't threaten the supremacy of government.