NYU Advises Student Not To Apply Because They Are Too Poor

Discussion in 'Career, Work, Finances and Education' started by OckyDub, Dec 22, 2015.

  1. OckyDub

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    A New York University official’s response to an email from a senior at Brown University asking for a fee waiver has set off a firestorm on Twitter about low-income students’ access to higher education.

    The Brown University student, Joshua Jackson, an African-American LGBT artist, asked for a waiver of the $65 fee NYU charges for sending an application, and received a response from Dan Sandford, director of graduate admissions at Tisch School of the Arts, saying they could not receive a waiver, which Jackson subsquently posted on Twitter and wrote “please explain.”

    Sandford first suggested that students who can’t afford the application fee shouldn’t apply and gives advice on how they should fund their education, writing, “Please do not take this the wrong way but if $65 is a hardship for you how will you be able to pay the tuition of $60,000? Of course we do provide scholarships but the most we usually offer is $15,000-$20,000. This still leaves a considerable gap. Maybe you should give yourself a year off looking at ways to fund your graduate education.”

    Sandford then writes that the application fee is “quite low” compared to other schools and that the school can’t easily budget for fee waivers and adds that the department would have to absorb the loss. But the most noteworthy part of the email is when Sandford writes that he hopes the declined request won’t “dampen your resolve to apply,” despite his earlier suggestion that a student who can’t afford the fee should wait a year to attend graduate school.

    NYU has since responded to the incident. Allyson Green, dean of the Tisch School of the Arts at NYU, sent a statement to Inside Higher Ed, which read that “contrary to the information” Jackson received, the NYU Tisch School “does and will waive application fees for students in need” and announced they have waived Jackson’s fee.

    Inside Higher Ed challenged the the university’s claim that it is being open with students about their access to waivers given that the university’s website echoes much of Sandford’s email, saying it can’t waive fees because the budget doesn’t cover those expenses.

    Then NYU’s message gets increasingly complicated, because the Tisch School’s spokeswoman told the publication that multiple waivers are granted each year “only on request.” Finally, the Tisch School’s spokeswoman said the website would be updated to adopt a needs-based application fee.

    Unfortunately, many other prestigious universities have more expensive application fees. Stanford University charges $90, Columbia University and Duke University charge $85 and many top-tier colleges, including Yale University, Dartmouth College and Boston University charge $80, according to a list of colleges ranked by U.S. News and World Report that charge the highest application fees. The most common application fee from all ranked colleges was $50.

    As colleges such as NYU talk about budget limitations on paying for students’ application fees, college presidents and other administration officials are paid salaries that reach seven digits.

    NYU President John Sexton made $1.5 million a year, took part in a university loan program that assists administrators with affording vacation homes in expensive locales, such as the Hamptons, and will receive a $2.5 million bonus. In addition, Sexton will also collect $800,000 annually in retirement. Andrew Hamilton will be the next president of NYU beginning in January of 2016. NYU would not tell the New York Times what his compensation will be.

    Despite the attention paid to Sexton’s salary and expensive home, CEO-like compensation packages for university presidents are not limited to NYU. According to a Chronicle of Higher Education survey of university president salaries in 2013, Columbia University President Lee C. Bollinger made the top of the list for highest compensation at $4.6 million in compensation and University of Pennsylvania President Amy Gutmann came in second at $3 million. The compensation of 32 presidents of private colleges were over $1 million in 2013.
     
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  2. OckyDub

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    -If I can't afford something, does that mean I'm poor?
    -Yes it is none of dude's (admission officer) business concerning the applicant's financial lively hood. Regardless of tact; how is the response he received not logical?
    -How is one black dude L.G.B. and T all at the same time and why is that even relevant?
     
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  3. Dante

    Dante https://www.gofundme.com/qv7v5dw
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    Exactly! LOL@LGBT However I think that its assumed we are "separate but equal" opposite of the other group of people a.k.a the heteros.

    The proper response would have been to give the applicant/prospective student information on an application fee waiver, which some higher education institutions have (two-year and four-year). That response was beyond not needed to be stated with such belittlement and entitlement as if to tell a homeless/displaced person that he or she can't apply for housing to have a roof over their head, because they are asking to lower the security deposit or down payment.

    I can't deal with how people can be so blatantly racist and discriminatory. I just can't.
     
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  4. OckyDub

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    I agree but with this but if this was your friend and he needed 60k and only had 10k for school and scholarships or grants only cover 20k for ONE semester...I'm thinking "how do you plan to pay for it if you can't afford the app fee?" The response he received was completely uncalled for; however how is the observation and logic behind it flawed?
     
  5. Dante

    Dante https://www.gofundme.com/qv7v5dw
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    Upfront, it's assumed that the student can't afford to attend the university, because of the presumed "welfare handout" request. That initial mistake a.k.a unfounded assumption is wrong, because he may have a scholarship/grant, etc. and/or a personal means to pay for his college education. I'm pretty sure the person who responded had no access to his employment, income and FAFSA information to determine anything after a complete personal, financial review. And to be completely honest, half of or all of the students that attend NYU and any other four-year institution can't afford to attend, if they don't have a full scholarship to cover all the high-ass college costs. The amount of student loan debt the average person pursuing a Bachelors, Masters and Ph.D. accrues is off the charts and ridiculous. So with that, hell yeah, he probably can't afford to go, aside the application fee. However, that's what financial aid, scholarships, grants, Federal Workstudy, on-campus jobs, and student loans are for.

    It wasn't right to blatantly tell the prospective applicant/student that he needed to go to another institution, because he made an indirect waiver request in such a unprofessional and ignorant way. Admissions offices generally don't go into applicant/enrollment decision-making based on someone's income. That Admissions person should have at least let someone in the Bursar/Financial Aid office respond, because they handle a prospective/current student's financial affairs. That person should have gave the student the application waiver information and stayed in their lane.
     
    #5 Dante, Dec 22, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2015
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  6. grownman

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    I have to give it to them. They served it straight up (no pun intended) instead of that "sugary sweet" fuck you. Many of them are known for. It was only $65.00. This should not even be something we are discussing here. My eyes are definitely opening more and more.
     
  7. SB3

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    Yea, I personally think anyone paying 60k a year for tisch, or any other art school, is absurd, esp in 2016.
     
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  8. mojoreece

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    This speaks to the whole education industry. Its like even if your trying to get an education to better yourself your punished because your poor. Most people can't afford school that's why they get loans, scholarships, grants and work-study jobs. It was out of line for the admissions director to say what he said. Every university has waivers for poor students. If a school really wants you they will find ways to help you. He clearly didn't want him the student to apply.
     
  9. acessential

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    The response was unnecessary. When I applied to graduate school, I tried to limit my choices to schools that provided application fee waivers. $65 may not seem like a lot. But it adds up especially when you're applying to multiple schools, you have to pay for official transcripts from all the schools you attended, and have to pay for the GRE/LSAT/MCAT. That $65 can easily turn into $110 and that's a cheap fee. Some schools application fees are $100 making the total cost to apply $150+. If you're applying to multiple schools, that could easily be $1000 gone. That is a drop in the bucket compared to tuition at these schools but you apply in the hopes of getting scholarships. Even if you don't get scholarships, there's loans and work study to help you pay. There are no loans for application fees. Folks just want to be able to get past the first stage and make the decision later.
     
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  10. NickAuzenneNOLA

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    I saw this and it's highly customary for grad schools to waive application fees for exceptional candidates because usually you're applying to several top programs that can eventually cost you near 1k if not more and they want to lore to their institution. I didn't pay my fee for business school and had I received something like this when I asked for a waiver I would've taken my talents elsewhere. This is elitist at best he couldn't have known his race via email but if he did it also racially charged.
     
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  11. bpaisle

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    Yeah dude I agree with you. That shit can add up for sure. There's no financial aid for the GRE and application fees. I didn't even know to ask for waivers when I was applying for undergrad. If I would have I definitely would have asked. I didn't pay an application fee for any of the grad schools that I applied for. These schools are taking in millions of dollars every year. Why not try and make the cost as low as possible for yourself?
     
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  12. GaTekno84

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    Off topic, but who is underwriting these $60k student loans? College has become a scam in a lot of instances. I know a lot of people who get these art and psychology (no offense) degrees that aren't worth the cost of tuition. If dude couldn't afford the $65 application fee for NYU, he should take that as a blessing.
     
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  13. acessential

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    Exactly. Colleges don't make most of their money on app fees. They make it on tuition and fees.
     
  14. acessential

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    Yeah, private loans are the worst for that. I don't judge what other people do, but if they're going to take out all those loans, they need to make sure they're government loans. The interest rate is better and they have better repayment and loan forgiveness programs.
     
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  15. grownman

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    I wish that I would have understood that and asked more questions. I went in blindly and my mom she didn't know anything about that. She went to a vocational school. However, their were good counselors that guided me in the right direction.
     
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  16. acessential

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    Yup. I feel like that's a universal problem with students who are the first in their family to attend college. We don't understand the concept of money. A loan is just free money. It's hard to visualize $60,000 a year to attend school when your family made a lot less than that growing up. At least in my case.
     
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