Where is the Empathy for the DL Man?

This is a great article, Ocky. I want to respond with something, but honestly dude, Im so f#$in' done with my peoples' mentalities when it comes to homosexuality; DL, Out, or other, that I just don't give a f@#k anymore. I don't see our community ever changes it's stance on the subject. There may be some here and there that are enlightened, but the better majority is still in the dark and prefer to remain there. I know its messed up to think this way, but damn man. It's like tryin' to get a dog to understand physics, it just ain't gonna happen.

 

All of this. Every single word!

 

Excellent article, very well written.

I've wondered this myself, why DL men are the scum of the earth apparently. Now some DL men are trifling and selfish but the general attitude amoung both straight and gay people is overly negative and divisive. Like you stated it drives men in this position to feel alienated and alone...makes them think and do things they otherwise wouldn't do.

I never knew there was speculation that Lee Thompson Young was gay. It broke my heart when I heard about him, he was so talented and seemed like such a beautiful person inside and out. It kills me how certain subjects within the black community like Homosexuality and mental illness (not to compare the two, I'm just saying these two cases in particular) are utter shunned or taboo to the point where someone like him(or anyone) could be driven to do the unthinkable. And we wonder why we don't get ahead! We don't support each other enough, we don't try to learn the facts or have compassion for those suffering.Too many internal problems that haven't been addressed properly to handle the other issues we face.

 

Tour de force! And why I fuck wit this site. This article needs to be widely disseminated.

 

Unfortunately too many of us view things as black or white. We also stick our heads in the sand and refuse to listen to reasonable arguments. "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve." we spending too much time thinking that our way is right or the path everyone else should follow instead of taking a moment to view how other people may feel, experience, think.... We just have now time for compassion and empathy .

Now, I can understand why women would feel hurt if they were with someone who they found out was DL/Bi. There's the fact they were cheated on which is a trust issued and the fact they have to deal with the reality that someone they had a heterosexual relationship with, engages in homosexual activities.

I definitely believe that we have to be accountable for what causes our own mess... If you know that you are having something conflict in your life you can't enter into a marriage with a female and try to hide or think that's going to fix things for you. Being bisexual is fine and dandy but it's not fair if only the homosexual partners known this about you.

You can't use people and involve them into your own problems however, what leads men to these situation? Society is telling you that you are wrong and going to hell's deep frier. You are less than a man. If this is what you have been hearing in churches since you were a child, coming to terms with your non heterosexual sexuality is made all the more difficult and causes many internal conflict that's hard to handle for some.

So I think people should try to understand why these men do what they do/did what they did. Black people and many in the black church feed these monsters and then when they reveal themselves, get mad and self righteous.

 

Great article @ockydub

I can relate to the DL struggle. I used to be one of those guys. Even now I dont flaunt my sexuality for the world to see. If someone asks, I'll tell them.

 

Coming from a different context, Jamaica, I can understand and condone a DL dude. When the alternatives in some cases are homelessness, unemployment and even in somewhat rare cases death, I cannot tell anybody to come out. Its their lives and their arew not first world protections in place to protect individuals from the social and legal implications of actions. I have seen many Dl dudes around me at gym and work and giving their particular circumstances I know they cant come out.

Mind you, their are openly gay people here and all around. What protects them are their immediate circles and how they conduct themselves on the roads and in public spaces. If you are gay and feminine always walk in groups as you are protected. It is better If you look powerful/ a high society individual, as Jamaicans fear those who have money. Finally if you come from a "bad" family ex a gang leaders son or close relative, people know to stay the hell away from you. Or the safest of them all. act masculine or be DL.

 

I have said this many times. Fear is extremely powerful, regardless of how irrational the fear may be. I think DL, the term is prolific in black culture because 1) it has been perpetuated by black women, 2) cultivated in our media culture, i.e.,, black media culture, 3) reinforced by black gay media and SGL/LGBT men, and 4) never properly addressed by men who may have overcome their fears and come out. That is a fundamental difference between when this DL-ness occurs in white culture vs black culture. White gay community feel bad for those men who may be DL but black gay community either embrace or shame DL-ness and NO ONE talks about the positives of not being on the DL.

 

@sekou when you are using "DL" are you meaning being closeted/discreet or are you meaning carrying on relationships with women while enjoying the company of men sexually?

 

I mean, if you boil it down, it's deception. It's semi-understandable deception, but still deception. I usually feel sorry for closeted men because I know they aren't living.

 

Well when it comes to men that get in relationships with women and then see men on the side I treat it like I would any other person that cheats, it's wrong IMO.

 

I mean I do. I don't judge them. Especially the "closeted" church queens. I just feel bad for them because I know they can't love that life.

 

One other thing I think keeps getting missed is that I believe it is a myth that just because you are open about your sexuality, i.e., telling the truth means you are somehow wearing your sexuality on your sleeve. I think many men lie via omission which is for me another condition of shame. I believe in the notion that coming out despite how scary it may be, will ultimately improve one's life (I mean as long as it is a safe environment for you to do so, I stand in solitary with my brethren in Russia and the Middle East and Africa, and the Caribbean).

I do not have tolerance for those who are abject hypocrites - those preachers and congressmen who are breaching hell fire and brimstone on Sunday and getting their D wet on Monday is extremely problematic for me.



But I do have empathy for those men and boys who are not ready to come out for whatever their reasoning is and are choosing the DL lifestyle. Although I don't like men who are deceivers, secrets hurt and sometimes secrets can kill. There is nothing wrong with being discreet as long as their discreetness is not rooted in shame. No one like people in their business, unless you prescribe to that Kardashian lifestyle.

 

This is gonna sound a bit controversial, I am talking both in a sense, there comes a point where people- watch-people and if you are not in a relationship with a girl, questions will arise. At that point you have a choice ..... and when that choice comes with some f**ked up consequences, people do shyt that others would not approve of. I have seen it happen and I have a less harsh view on it.

 

One of the reasons I joined the foreign service and did so as an out black gay man is part symbolism and part hope for LGBT people all around the world. Because the places I will go they will know that their lives matter, that they are not wrong, that they should not be killed or imprisoned for simply being who they are. Also, my story goes a little further, I am a black gay American man something that doesn't get too much attention even in places as diverse as the State Department or within the ranks of the diplomatic corp serving around the world. Whenever someone tells me we have made it, I show them the historic picture of the 6 openly gay US Ambassadors currently serving, they are all white men. No women or persons of color, we still have a way to go.

 

"All in the name of a sacred religion. " WHET!!?? YOU got sum'in against JEEEZHUS?! I know ONE thing...YA'LL Gays and Dowwwwwn LOWs needs ta get right wit GAWD and repent. cuz' when JEEEZHUS come, I know who AIN'T, gon' be wit me in the GLOWRAY! HEEEY!!! PRAISE HIM!!" LOL!!!

 

Great article man!

 

Thanks for clarification. I think in situations and areas where matters of sexuality can be a matter of life or death, there should be various levels of tolerance for DL men. I definitely would not tell anyone to live their lives if that put them at risk.

Americans and European countries have so much freedom and it's something we tend to take for granted when it comes to being open about sexuality.

 

I think since we have that freedom we have a duty to stand up and be counted. As long as you personally are ready to do that. When I say be counted that doesn't mean go march in the annual gay pride parade but simply live as openly and honestly as you can to show people that you just as basic as the rest of them.

 

Lol not Aunt Ester though!

I understand that different situations cause people to do what they. The last thing I would want is for someone to feel misunderstood....judgemental attitudes are so easy to fall into when you've never been in a specific situation.

 

In this post DL is broadly defined. I tend to think of DL men as narrowly, bisexual men who passed as straight who usually have wives, girlfriends or baby mamas. However for the sake of argument I'll go with the broad definition. There are certain groups of DL men in have sympathy for and others in have no sympathy for. I don't have sympathy for people like Eddie Long be they religious or political leaders. I think they deserve to outted and publicly embarrassed. I have some understanding towards bisexual men who choose to hide because of rampant homophobia of the black community. I also have understanding to the "unclockable" gay men who just want to quietly do them without any static from the community or the wider society. I used to feel that way myself when I was younger. As I've gotten older I came to the conclusion that things won't improve if we all continue to hide.

 

Indeed a great article. Until the phobia and stigma of being gay or even bisexual explodes and disappears from our existence, especially in the Black community, the DL man will always exists. People who have a religious view on any non-heterosexual because of the well known passage in Leviticus about "...A man shall not sleep with a men..." and all that is perceived with that and people who look at the typical "stereotype" of what a "gay man is" not seeing a man being anything other than a straight man don't seem to go left with their position at all and are indeed the primary fuel that allows gay and bisexual men to dwell as hermits and all them to put on the DL uniform on everyday. The Berlin Wall is still up. Hopefully, one day it will come down.

 

This is exactly why I'm critical of and despise religion. It is christofascists, islamofascists, and their minions in the political sphere which give legitimacy to atrocities like this
under guise of following the will of god.

Nigeria

Iraq

Iran

 

Damn this was a really good article. Can we also discuss why it is that when a woman says she's bisexual, it's a non-issue but, when a man says he's bisexual, people don't believe him and say he's using bisexuality as a cop-out to soften the blow of him actually saying he's gay? These are things we need to start talking about out loud instead of keeping it under wraps. I feel this is the only way we can begin to break down the barriers we in the black community have built that are destroying so many black LGTBQ men and women!

 

Great article. I do have a certain amount of sympathy for many DL men, so long as they aren't the ones perpetuating the cycle of shame, guilt, and self-destructiveness. I think things are changing for the better slowly but surely here in Black America, but, it's a slow process and has been ingrained in the steeples of our culture for so long it will take time.

 

Love the article. It's amazing to me that people have such disdain for these "DL" dudes and yet won't accept their part in the creation of them. Don't get me started on black women and their need to always play the victim in this scenario. They'd be okay with a man cheating with a woman, but since it's another man that's too far. C'mon! Is it deceptive? Absolutely. But ask yourself why they are being deceptive.

 

It's because some deceptions are worse than others and cheating with a dude makes them less than a man. Even on some of the comments on Yusef I saw one lady say he had all these kids because he was trying to prove something but he's still gay.

Again everything is black and white with a lot of black folks. You can't like Popeye's and KFC. It's either one or the other.

 

???????????? WHAT'S THE SOLUTION ????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Years ago white people wouldn't except biracial children if they were part black/negro, but these children were always accepted by the black family. They probably did so by asking themselves the question: "ARE WE NOT FAMILY" I wonder how many of them grew up to be prejudiced against DL men?
For many years GAYS and Lesbians were not accepted in American society.They were beaten, spit on, abandoned by family, and not hired! I wonder how many of them were prejudiced against DL men? ARE WE NOT FAMILY????


LGBT aka Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender. Should finally recognize that a man (and I'm speaking for myself) who felt he could totally be accepted for his bisexuality most likely would not live on the DL but would openly respond "Yes I am bisexual" if or when asked. So now I ask YOU LGBT community, ARE WE NOT FAMILY???

A murderer, thief, or a man who has extra-marital affairs with other women is accepted and will receive visitors while in prison. But the outed DL man is shunned by his friends on the streets of Philly! Even gay people say, "You're just confused!" Are we really??? Can a person not like chocolate and vanilla? Dogs and cats,

Most bisexuals that I associate with will only date or enter in a relationship with one person/gender at a time. We consider this being fair to the other party involved. Should things get really serious where both parties are talking becoming "exclusive" maybe then we may decide to show our hand. But even then we take a risk of being rejected and abandoned. I hear arguments from people who say, "If it was me I wouldn't care what people would say or think about me!"
It's hard for someone to say what they will do until you've walked in those shoes......ARE WE NOT FAMILY??

 

This is an important article, we definitely need to have more understanding and empathy for the DL folks

 

DL "brothas" are not going to be getting any compassion or empathy any time soon from straight black people. There are a number of reasons for this, chief among them is that the straight black community places the blame for the high HIV/AIDS infections rates among black women mostly on the shoulders of DL men. You've heard the storyline: black men who secretly have raw sex with men and then come home and have sex with their wives, girlfriends, baby mamas, etc., giving the virus to those women. J.L. King's 2004 book about the "down-low" single handedly set the stage for where we are now regarding this DL issue. The DL and all the highly negatives associated with it are not going away any time soon: many straight black people apparently believe that ANY black gay man who is not obviously and/or openly gay is on the DL. Whether he dates women or not. It seems to me that a "masculine" black gay man who does not sex women (but who is not open about his sexuality) is often seen as MORE of a threat to the black community then the more "clockable" types. This entire DL mess has contributed greatly to the state of toxic warfare that currently exists between the sexes in the black community. It seems that the only time a DL "brotha" comes up from the DL, so to speak, is when he is forced to like Yusaf Mack. I'm sorry but I don't have any sympathy for Mr. Mack. Men like him are the problem. Straight black women, justifiably so, do not want to sex men who themselves are sexing men. When they think of this their minds immediately go to becoming infected with the HIV/AIDS virus and who can blame them. What's the solution? I think that the primary responsibility falls on the DL "brothas" to come up from the DL. They need to be honest with their female partners. NO MATTER WHAT the consequences. The secondary responsibility is on masculine black gay men who do not date women to come out of the closet and tell their stories. Why is a masculine black gay man who does not date women but who is not open about his sexuality a "problem"? Masculine black gay men who do not sex women are not really a problem but it appears that many straight black women think they are a problem because if they see an attractive straight acting black gay man some black women are going to be "interested" in him and wonder if they have a "chance". Straight black women need to see that there are masculine black gay men out there who are not trying to date and/or have sex with women. Masculine black gay men need to tell their stories and show that they are not these monsters having sex with men and then having sex with unsuspecting women possibly exposing them to HIV because that's what many straight black women think. This act of understanding on the part of masculine black gay men who pass for straight might help contribute to peace of mind, even sanity, among a large number of straight black women.

 

Everything you just said is 1000% correct.