Why Passing as Straight Is Not a Privilege

Discussion in 'LGBT News and Events' started by OckyDub, Feb 24, 2016.

  1. OckyDub

    OckyDub is a Verified MemberOckyDub I gave the Loc'ness monstah about $3.50
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    It's not something I purposefully turn on and off, my masculinity. I'm naturally androgynous, enjoying both "typically" masculine and feminine activities. However, my gender expression is dependent on the setting and with whom I'm interacting. This isn't a conscious thing, as if I'm trying to purposefully conceal my femininity around straight people or amp up my femininity around more flamboyant gay men. I'm not ashamed of acting more effeminate or masculine, regardless of the circumstance.

    I do, however, act masculine when around straight men, because they elicit my masculine side, and not in a hypermasculine, let's one-up each other type of way. We're not discussing how many women we've "conquered" or how much we bench, but we also don't chat about how Rihanna and Queen B should totally create a joint album together. I have different conversations when I'm with my straight male friends, and there is undoubtedly a particular tone. It makes sense. They are straight. They've lived different, more privileged, lives than queer men.

    When I'm with my gay friends, the "Yass queen" emerges, and it's simple why: I'm around other men who use the same vernacular. Being around gay, more effeminate men, elicits my more stereotypically feminine attributes.

    I love it. I love both parts of me. And I love being able to have straight and gay groups of friends.

    Now when I date a woman, and we go out together in public, people assume we're straight. Because of this, I'm able to hold her hand in the street without fear of being judged. I'm not afraid a passerby is going to verbally or physically assault me for my sexuality. While riding the train, I can kiss her on the lips, confident that no one is going to bat an eyelash. In the regard, yes; there is a benefit in "appearing" straight and masculine and complying (albeit accidentally) to gender norms. But while it's a benefit, it's a jump to claim that all bisexual men and women (in same-sex relationships) have "straight privilege."

    Bisexuals' identities are constantly assumed, either gay or straight. After clarification as bisexual, our sexuality is then put into question, not accepted at face value. No one ever questions a flamboyant gay man, "Are you sure you're gay? How do you know?" Alas, the only reason they don't question him is because they are assuming his gender expression and sexual orientation must be connected. Since he's feminine he must be gay, as this complies with their preconceived notions of gender and gender norms.

    Bisexuals, on the other hand, are often asked, "How do you know you're bi?" "Have you ever dated an [insert gender here]?" "Have you ever loved an [insert gender here]" "Aren't bisexual men just gay men who haven't accepted it yet? I've never heard of a bi man leaving his husband for a woman, but I do see bi men leaving their wives for men. What do you think about that?"

    Bisexual men and women live daily with their sexual identity first incorrectly assumed, then subsequently questioned, judged and finally, dismissed. However, mainstream society doesn't know where to box bisexuals. Since many people wrongly believe masculine = straight and feminine = gay, where does that leave bisexuals?

    On the outskirts of both gay and straight communities, with people constantly making false assumptions about our identities. And people wrongly assuming something about who you are, is not a privilege.

    In fact, it leads to anxiety all the fucking time.

    Every novel social situation with gay or straight men/women is a struggle. We have to battle the desire to justify who we are with every new person we meet. We have to decide whether we want to correct you, when you mislabel us as straight or gay, and if we're in the mood to have a conversation about ourselves because often, we don't want to talk about our personal lives, especially with someone we just met.

    We have to deal with additional factors while dating both men and women, as many men and women don't want to date bisexuals. They believe false misconceptions about us. We can't be monogamous, we're indecisive, we're sexually greedy, we're in denial of our "full-blown" gayness. Or, we're fetishized, guys thinking that we're "hot" because we sleep with women. That's also not a privilege, despite the fact that it's people "liking" us.

    The rates of anxiety, depression, drug use and alcohol abuse are consistently as high (if not higher -- depends on the study) for bisexuals than gay men and women. Bisexuals face additional challenges, even when in different-sex relationships. And while I might not fear walking down the street holding hands with a woman, that doesn't mean I have "straight privilege."

    Because at the end of the day, bisexuals aren't straight. We're bi, so "passing" as straight, in essence, deleting a fundamental part of who are, is not a privilege.

    So before saying that passing as "straight," or anything else for that matter, is a privilege, please reconsider. People mistaking your identity is not a privilege. People conflating your gender expression with your sexuality is not a privilege. Coming out perpetually to every new person you meet is not a privilege. Your anxiety is not a privilege. Feeling confused regarding which community you belong, is not a privilege. Feeling the need to hide your identity is not a privilege. "Passing" is not a privilege.
     
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  2. OckyDub

    OckyDub is a Verified MemberOckyDub I gave the Loc'ness monstah about $3.50
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    Maybe I need to read this again because this was confusing.
    :whut:
     
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  3. SB3

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    U had me confused as hell man.
     
  4. ControlledXaos

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    I think I understand but not sure if I actually understand.
     
  5. NikR

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    2 paragraphs in and I'm totally lost
     
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  6. ColumbusGuy

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    Well it appears that part of what he says is that there is no cisprivilige so HuffPostQUEERSTUVWXYZ voices will object to it.
     
  7. Tyroc

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    Is he saying that tragic bi-sexuality is the new tragic mulatto.
    That It's so hard to be accepted by everyone because you fit everywhere but you still feel alone and unaccepted?
     
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  8. Dante

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    LOL! Through all yayayaya, I think he is saying "Bisexuals are here and we are Queer, so get over it".

    Bisexuality is still mentally frustrating, especially for people closed minded about anything non-heteronormative. However, acting straight or appeasing the heteronormative is privilege to bisexuals. Though homosexuals can act straight and appease the heteronormative, too, bisexuals can do it but with a sense of personal justification leaning towards their opposite gender attraction. For me, he likes to put on a different mask to fit into the audience of people he's around. For me, regardless of sexuality, that's equivalent to fake, unless you are being paid to act. You should be you around anybody or go home.
     
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  9. Discordant

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    Yeah, he kind of Spike Lee'd his post and filled it with too many undeveloped ideas at once. I think he's saying being assumed straight by straight people is not a privilege because he only appears straight because he subconsciously butches it up around them? Still doesn't disprove privilege, if that was the point, but whatevs.
     
  10. ColumbusGuy

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    It sounds like 'codeswitching'-but in greater terms including behavior, activities, and demeanor, and he is saying it comes easily and naturally to him.

    But then complains about the results of being successful at this?

    Where is @NickAuzenneNOLA to comment on this? I don't think this article reflects what he has expressed on here.
     
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  11. NickAuzenneNOLA

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    I think this has as far as being read as straight or having your bisexuality questioned, dismissed, or pushed into the gay column confirmed some things I have stated. I disagree with the idea that we have to pretend to be something depending on our circles. I am how I am wherever I am however there is masculine privilege, hetero-assumed privilege, cisprivilege, shit theres even things such as light skin privilege among ourselves as minorities. I dont like the tone that says that there isnt because its wrong. Honestly I think this is some white LGBT issue. They arent the default for us all and have an entirely different experience. Bisexual men are largely judged, misunderstood, othered etc and that is harmful.
     
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  12. SB3

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    Im gonna assume @Ockydub posted this FROM the bar...
     
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  13. Dante

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    LOL! Done with you.
     
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  14. SB3

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    It's all love. He knows I hate him w all my heart.
     
  15. Nick Delmacy

    Nick Delmacy is a Verified MemberNick Delmacy Da Architect
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    I only read it once and I totally get what he was trying to say. I think @ColumbusGuy is right, this is essentially what @NickAuzenneNOLA has been saying since he started posting on The Boards.

    Some of this is also what @Ockydub and I have been saying since we started the site: Just because we are masculine, that doesn't mean that we don't face hardships and feelings of not fitting in anywhere as gay men, even among other gay men.

    I totally get what he said in the first 2 paragraphs: He subconsciously acts more "straight" around straight men because they are straight. Not to dissimilar to people from the deep south whose accents suddenly subconsciously become more heavily pronounced when they re-visit their home towns.

    When he's around his feminine gay friends, he "joins in" on their flamboyancy and terminology, making him appear more effeminate.

    As for the rest, I can see what he means. "Privilege" may not have been the word he was looking for...It seems that he meant that Bisexuals (especially bisexuals like he and @NickAuzenneNOLA who appreciate both straight masc and fem gay worlds) do face crisis of identity from external sources who don't understand and prejudge/stereotype them.
     
  16. SB3

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    U better go hard in the paint for ur homie!
     
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  17. ColumbusGuy

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    Actually I said this did not seem like what @NickAuzenneNOLA was saying, especially about the codeswitching stuff, I don't recall him doing that or complaining about that. He mentioned being misunderstood by both gays and straights, but he never said he changed his behavior to match who he was around. (Unless I am reading what you are trying to say incorrectly) I particularly do not recall him ever saying he 'feminized' himself, certainly not to the point of 'yasss girl' and that.

    NickA. stated he is how he is wherever he is. This guy in the article is the opposite-a codeswitcher type. And it comes naturally to him. So he benefits from being 'gayish' around the gays, and benefits from being 'straightish' around the straights. That gives him a bit of 'privilege' from 'fitting in' with the group he is with.

    You and Ocky do not 'femme it up' with 'Yass gurl' stuff when you are around femme gays(GAWD forbid lol). So you do not benefit from 'blending in' with them. NickA seems to be in the same boat-he is who he is, which is masculine, and does not change that up. He does not benefit from 'fitting in with the femmes' either.

    There are several issues being discussed.
    -The codeswitching(behavior) that guy does and he does (and benefits from in both ways)
    Is this a 'benefit"(which the guy agrees with) or is it a 'privilege'(which the author disagrees with).
    -Then he goes into the 'we are misunderstood' stuff by both gays and straights, and the problems of being bisexual.
    -Then he goes back to the original 'privilege or not' stuff from the beginning,
    Well he says he does this automatically, so he is the one 'deleting things' by this codeswitching behavior, he is getting benefits from 'passing' as straight with straight, and 'passing' as 'gay' with 'gays'(femme gays).
    -He concludes with basically saying nothing he does gives him any privilege. But he has already gone on about the benefits of his codeswitching behavior and the benefits of passing as straight when dating women. ????

    What I see NickA as saying as yes, there are benefits/privileges-disagreeing with that part by the author, but agrees with the part about misunderstandings based on how people perceive bisexuality.

    The title of the article is "Why passing as straight is not a privilege' NickA seems to disagree with that. NickA's main complaints seem to be about being misunderstood and stereotyped by people because he is bisexual.

    My take:
    The guy in the article does benefit from passing as straight and gives and example of this(when he is dating women) so he as privilege there. Just like you and Ocky have benefit from it as well. But he also benefits from 'being one of they gheys' and actually has that privilege too because he codeswitches his behavior. You and Ocky(and apparently NickA as well) do not have this 'ghey' privilege because you are who you are and you don't 'flame out' with the 'yass gurrl' stuff around the femmes.

    Only looking at the article title, this guy actually has privilege/benefits in both areas(straight/masculine and gay/feminine) when it suits him/when it naturally comes up through his changing behavior.

    sorry for the novel here.

    *I am also a 'I am who I am and this is what I am' type. I don't try and act differently really. A few things may have rubbed off, but I don't try and come across as 'a brotha' on here. I don't try to be super masculine around masculine guys, and I don't do the yasss gurl stuff either(unless it is for fun/joking/or(worse)making fun of people who do that. Being around gays who are all 'yass gurlll' does not make me want to do that, that I am aware of anyway.

    And I am done with this damn thread, it is making my brain hurt and I am over it.
     
    #17 ColumbusGuy, Feb 24, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2016
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  18. NickAuzenneNOLA

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    Refer to new post...
     
    #18 NickAuzenneNOLA, Feb 24, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2016
  19. ColumbusGuy

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    So did I get this right and what you were saying correct? (so I can forget about this thread lol)
     
  20. NickAuzenneNOLA

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    I think we all can admit that masculinity is a privilege. It definitely shields us from a lot of the scrutiny more effeminate SGL men face from the world at large and within the LGBT community. To code switch is his concious choice to be deceptive simply because he can and seeks to gain more privilege than he already possesses. As Nick D said much of this has been points I've made but that aspect of dawning on other identities just so you don't feel left out is both disingenuous and selfish. I never have felt the need to do that and would feel like a fraud if I did so.

    PS: Nick D. stood by something I said? Love you too!
     
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  21. Nick Delmacy

    Nick Delmacy is a Verified MemberNick Delmacy Da Architect
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    I guess maybe I'm unclear or have a different view on what "privilege" means in this conversation. Based on this discussion, merely fitting into any particular group is considered a "privilege."
     
  22. Discordant

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    I think it's considered a privilege because he is benefiting from fitting in. Whether he truly belongs in that group or even relates to it doesn't matter because, at the end of day, he still gets all the benefits of being a part of that particular group. At least until he actively disassociates himself from it, which he clearly doesn't since he naturally code-switches.
     
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  23. Nick Delmacy

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    Hmmm, I appreciate your definition but again I guess I've just never used the word that way in my life. Fitting in is a benefit in itself? Sounds like what you described is actually conformity, not privilege. To me, privileged is defined as he would have some advantage over others. Its not like he's getting a prize or special benefit over any one else. Especially over someone who is less masculine among his straight friends. Unless one can prove that his hetero friends actively discriminate against or grant lesser companionship to effeminate bisexual men specifically because they are "not fitting in," I don't think "privilege" applies.
     
  24. ColumbusGuy

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    Ok now look at this quoted section:

    He admits that being masculine/straight acting and appearing is a benefit as a bisexual male for him. He straight out says it. Then he says 'not all' bisexual men have 'straight privilege'-which is really him saying that while he does(because he is masc), not everyone bisexual does(because not all of them are as masc as him and as passably straight as him).

    His fear of not having an assault is 'privilege'. Don't you think? If he is out with a girl on a date- they are seeing a guy with his date-not a gay guy with his friend who is a girl.

    I would say, per him, lack of fear is a big privilege.

    I have it. I don't walk around anywhere feeling like I am going to be automatically perceived as gay and subject to scrutiny (or worse). Kind of like walking around white people while being white..or walking around white police officers while being white. Is there 'benefit' there...is there 'privilege' there?

    *at the same time though, are femme guys going to let you in their circle, include you, let you know 'the tea', etc. ...or are they(even if they know you are gay) going to just see you as 'trade'? Is there a downside(possibly not for you lol) in that as well?

    This guy gets the benefits of both. Inclusion is a usually a benefit. Exclusion is usually a detriment.

    *And you are not doing anything wrong-you are just being yourself. The problem that I think some people may have with this is that the guy has 'benefits' in both areas (because of his behavioral code-switching) and does not realize it or will not admit it.

    If the code-switching is something that just comes natural to him he is not doing anything wrong either. He just has 'benefits' that come from inclusion. But he should also at least acknowledge these 'benefits'(or whatever you want to call them).
     
    #24 ColumbusGuy, Feb 26, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2016
  25. Nick Delmacy

    Nick Delmacy is a Verified MemberNick Delmacy Da Architect
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    Yeah that's explained very well by both of you but I guess I still disagree with the terminology. Its all perception I guess. To me this is like saying an athlete is "privileged" while playing in a professional basketball game over a non-athlete.

    Even the dictionary definition doesn't define the word in the way its used here. Sounds like the word has become hijacked by the Gay Mafia LGBTQUXE HuffPostGay community like the word "Queer."
     
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  26. ColumbusGuy

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    I agree it is taken out of context-I included the reference to race to illustrate that lol-I can't believe you did not call that out . It is not on the same level as say, 'White Privilege' or even 'male privilege'. I am not sure what it is called...'masculine privilege'? I think it is a privilege, but not on the same level. It is a privilege in a way, but more of a conformity benefit.

    This whole 'privilege' thing has gotten out of hand really. 'Masc privilege', 'Cis privilege'..it kinds of waters down the ones where there is extreme historical privilege and privilege that has major implications for a wide variety and large number of people.

    There are benefits to being 'masc' but there are also downsides as well. As in finding other masc dudes, being stereotyped (see Huffpost or any number of Cypher Avenue detractors), not being known for who you are and being put in awkward situations(like a female client putting the moves on you). It is not a one way street of all benefits.

    But in some serious cases (as in not being clocked by homophobes looking for some gay guy to bash), it is a definite benefit. And given the title is 'Why passing as straight is not a privilege' I can see where in this instance someone who is just naturally very femme and just got bashed because of being clockable might think 'Passing as straight is very much a privilege'.

    This is where I think passing as straight may be a 'privilege' - removal of a certain fear of homophobic reactions, and removal of a fear of verbal or physical attack due to homophobia is a big deal.
     
    #26 ColumbusGuy, Feb 26, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2016
  27. Discordant

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    Agreed. I think we've diluted the meaning power behind the word "privilege." All privileges aren't created equal, so I can understand why you aren't quite agreeing with the word in this context @Nick Delmacy
     
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