Here on Cypher Avenue we often get into long discussions on being masculine and homosexual in a gay niche culture that celebrates femininity. Over the years we’ve been very good about removing hate speech directed towards effeminate men and scolding the offenders. That doesn’t mean we stray away from having the discussion.
We have never claimed that being a feminine homosexual makes anyone “less than a man” or unwanted in the gay culture. Our repeated desire has always been for more equal representation of both feminine and masculine gay men, especially those of color. Also, we wanted gay men of all types to know that it was okay to not fit in with mainstream gay culture. It was okay to like cars, sports and comic books over fashion, reality shows and Beyonce.
Some of us Homosexuals are just not into the ballroom scene, throwing shade, sipping tea, etc. Its cool that those things interest some, but what about the rest of us? Why are we (masculine gay men with more testosterone based interests) only depicted as lustful objects of sexual desire in gay books, gay films and gay web series? Not depicted as real human beings with real lives and struggles?
Then came Jason Collins, Michael Sam, Derrick Gordon (and even Frank Ocean…sorta) to show not only the gay community but also the world that black gay men can be more than just the fabulous flamboyant hairdresser stereotype they were accustomed to seeing on television.
Speaking of television, we also got Kaldrick King on The L.A. Complex. Granted this was not a wildly popular show, but it was a real depiction of the struggle for a masculine gay man.
Based on many comments posted on blogs, Facebook and Twitter, this was a threat. This seemed to prove that “The Black Man” was under attack by some unseen entity (The White Man? Ultron? The latest iTunes update?!) to strip away his masculinity.
*Insert Record Scratch Here*
No, that’s why this website exists…to demonstrate that being gay does not automatically mean “less masculine”, “less manly” or “emasculated.”
But to some (ie: bigoted black heterosexuals), anything less than being a straight black man makes you damaged goods, especially if you are both gay and effeminate.
Case in point, the new trailer for Oxygen’s The Prancing Elites Project just dropped recently.
These 50-seconds caused many Black Heterosexuals to go bat-shit-crazy in outrage and conspiracy theories.
This nikka got over 3,500 likes, 2,100 shares and 1,700 comments off that statement….edited statement at that, so who knows how much he cleaned it up from his original thoughts. The comments from others are very common though.
True there are a couple very supportive folks in there sharing opinions about the issue, but overwhelmingly throughout the thread there are very disturbing and ignorant comments posted. Many of them parents of young children themselves. [Editors Note: The thread is posted publicly on Facebook HERE for your own viewing.]
So, according to these nut jobs, The Prancing Elites Project is part of an elaborate secret mission created by some unseen entity (Liberal Media? Obamacare? Joffrey Baratheon?!) to eradicate the masculine black man? But for what purpose?
Reading comments like these and others across the web, I am reminded of a scene from director Yoruba Richen’s excellent documentary “The New Black” in which a room full of black men gather at a family dinner and the topic of homosexuality comes up.
“Being gay is not contagious,” says one of the men after an elder voices concern about gays negatively influencing children. “No one can make a child gay.”
Another man chimes in, “The Heterosexual influence, especially in this culture and society, is a million times stronger than the Homosexual influence.”
While these statements are oozing in common sense, many black heterosexuals turn a blind ear to logic when it comes to what they perceive as being “normal.” Even if that “normality” includes womanizing, domestic violence and being a deadbeat father to multiple unclaimed children. As long as they’re not emasculated by Homosexuality, they’re okay.
This is akin to law-abiding, tax paying Atheist being looked at by Christians as lesser than convicted murderers who get Born Again in prison…As long as they’re not non-believers and have accepted Christ, they’re okay.
This relates to my (slight) beef with writer Michael Arceneaux’s essay over at Complex.com where he states that, “Black People Are Not More Homophobic Than Everyone Else.” He goes on to quote stats and figures and make statements like this:
As opposed to other communities where tolerance for the LGBT community is remarkably higher? Blacks are not the X-Men of anti-gay bigotry. We don’t have some superior level of homophobia compared to other groups.
First of all, props to him for using a comic book reference in an attempt to make his point, I’ve done it once in this essay as well.
Secondly: Huh, Whut?!
Granted, I’ll agree that non-black communities still have tons of homophobia. However, what Michael Arceneaux failed to do was to consider real life anecdotal stories in his opinion, over merely quoting stats and facts. What a black person tells a pollster is different than what happens in the homes of many black families and churches.
There is a reason why Atlanta, a city called The Black Gay Mecca is not as “free” as a gay city like San Francisco. Homosexuality (and open displays of that homosexuality) still looked down upon in the city, especially by the black church going residents.
Also, let’s not forget about young Brandon White, an openly gay black man who was physically attacked in Atlanta (the supposed Gay Black Mecca) by multiple black men as they spurred homophobic slurs while another filmed the incident.
FULL CIRCLE
Based on what we’ve seen on social media, it would appear that homophobia, the teaching of homophobia to children and the defending of homophobic statements/people is contagious, not the Homosexuality itself.
Men come in all shapes, sizes and types. Some are masculine, some are effeminate, some are straight, some are bisexual and some are gay. But they are still MEN. That is…unless they identify as another gender altogether…which is a long conversation for another time.
Lol. The writers seem to whine a lot these days. Its masculinity this and that. What happened to movies and series review? That’s the shit I liked on here
“What happened to movies and series review?”
Literally just posted hours ago…like LITERALLY:
There are many more issues open for discussion in the gay community than just Movies and Web Series discussions. IJS.
Dear Cypher Ave…can you talk about what I want you to talk about when I want you to talk about it? Sick of you thinking you have a mind of your own and covering a whole host of topics.
Man I wish we could be as concerned about health, education, finance, black on black violence, etc.
The “internet outrage” from black folks about anything homosexual goes to show why we are not taken seriously in the country.
Internet Grandstanding and the age of the internet troll is ridiculous. Most of these people won’t say the things they write in public or in the face of people they are writing to or about. They often hide behind an avatar and fake name and write the most vile bullshit their feeble little minds can think of…they project false cause and effect on their own struggles…instead of talking about how poverty is the root cause of breaking down the family they blame gayness…instead of writing about how inequality and unequal justice they blame gayness…instead of writing about disparities in health and access to healthcare they blame gayness…its dumb and they will never reach any higher standing in life.
I have written here many times that marriage is the easiest route to create wealth in America and buying a home is the most significant way to create wealth. I always ask black hating preachers and anti-gay crusaders what have they done to encourage their hetero-men and women to get married and create stable family units…what have they done to address inequality and unequal justice…the answer is crickets…
Your hear crickets on those issues because that would make alot us face some hard realities about what is going on in our communities. Gays are not the cause for poor access to healthcare, lack of financial education, teen pregnancy, men not being there for their kids, black on black violence, etc.
I’m forever puzzled about why are people so quick to follow these empty wagon, internet social warriors.
Because it’s the easiest subject to get the majority of the Black “Community” to back and agree with each other on. They could easily cry out about lack of Job Opportunity, Dead Beat Dad’s, The Pastor basically struttin around like the Pope in the Vatican (off their tithes and other endorsements) while the Sheeple live like peasants, and the overall display of ignorant behavior glorified (by US) on Social Media (WorldStar Hip Hop) but… too many muhfukaz got they ‘side hustle’ going on so that cancels over all concerns of unemployment; the single mother syndrome has become (sadly) accepted by so many that for the most part thats a none issue; Pastuh JAYNkins can’t do NO wrong, in the name of MY JeeeZUHS, hallelUUUURJAH; and “everybody” loves Drama & Coonery so ain’t nobody gonna stand up against World Star. But let a “faggot” cross the Computer/TV screen and mriaculously EVVVVVVVERYbody can come together and agree that THAT’s what’s fuckin up the Black Community. They follow each other so easily, because 9x’s outta 10, they’re perpetrators of an issue that REALLY part of the community’s destruction. Deflection works wonders. smh
Boom! The saddest thing is when it comes from lgbt black folk.
It’s weird. I was too busy brow beating gay men who were dogging this show…and didn’t even think about the heteros.
I do believe that the black community isn’t more homophobic than anyone else. If you look at the organizations on the news that attack and persecute us…they’re not black.
Mmmm when people use that argument I think to racial issues between black people and white people. I can’t say that black people are not prejudiced against whites in the same way whites historically have been to blacks. I CAN say that, unlike white people, blacks do not, and never have had the social, political and economic power to impact whites as an entire group in terms of what may have been our prejudices toward them (as whites have been able to do to blacks). In terms of gays, you don’t see black organizations on tv or making up the majority of groups that give major money to support anti-lgbt campaigns…because we do not OWN many spaces to be able to do such things in comparison to the dominant culture. We can’t and don’t have the ability, as a group, to do things like cut checks for these politicians, organizations, etc that we see on tv that are against LGBT rights. This does not, however, mean that we are any less homophobic than whites, possibly not more (look at prop 8). Also, looking through the lens of a sociologist, people who have historically been oppressed often use the platforms of power they DO have to oppress others. Spaces we do control, i.e. the black church, Black Greek Letter Organizations, etc. (all of which I have been a part of and which RARELY get the type of attention outside of the black community that white owned spaces do) are synonymous with homophobic practices. This is not to say that there aren’t homophobic whites, but the idea that just because blacks aren’t the main people in media or politics attacking gays does not mean that we have come as far as we think as a people behind the scenes.
This is a very good point. Also, when people make the argument that powerful white organizations attack gays more, they also fail to mention the many white organizations that support LGBT citizens more. I can point to many television networks, organizations, political leaders that are very vocal LGBT supporters…I’m hard pressed to name a non-gay black organization that regulatory speaks out for the gay community. Even Obama had to eventually be pressured into doing it due to Joe Biden’s statements on Meet The Press.
I disagree. The NAACP has long since been standing up for the gays. And I cant think if too many non gay white organizations that speak up for us either. And Greekdom is not as homophobic as it used to be sinply because they are being flooded with gays.
The NAACP only verbally support Gay Marriage…not much else (that I can see). And that only came after Obama did it. As for non-black organizations, we see corporations, Major Television Networks and organizations supporting LGBT individuals and groups all the time. That’s the reason why the people in that Facebook screenshot say there is a conspiracy and “influx of promotion” of feminine men and gays in general. I don’t see the same with Black Television Networks, Businesses or Groups. in the rare case that a black organization makes a statement about gays, its usually in reaction to (or to avoid) a discrimination accusation.
Thank you @Nick. I don’t recall the NAACP ever “actively” or vehemently standing up for any Gay Cause, and I really can’t recall any memorable event where they were actively vocal about one either.
Actually that is not true. The NAACP for CEO/President Ben Jealous spoke out publicly before President Obama and the organization issued a statement the same time Obama came out. But the NAACP also provided Amicus Briefs to the Supreme Court in Support of Marriage Equality both for the Windsor case and Prop 8 case. We also have to remember that organizations like NAACP are not top-down organizations I am sure we could point to some meaningful connections that NAACPs chapters around the country have with their LGBT constituents and partners. I know Tampa Bay area ..the local NAACP chapters are routinely part of the movements within the lgbt causes…
Again it’s only ONE entity………anymore?
I honestly believe that this is a generational issue. Each passing generational recognizes the flaws of the one that proceeded it. I will turn 30 years old this year and I have honestly seen a fundamental shift in perceptions of LGBT/SGL people. As a teenager I couldn’t image the concept of being legally married, today my black family is planning my wedding in my home state of Florida. My friends all know a gay person or has interacted with a gay person and slowly but surely those experiences are changing the hearts of minds of many people. My parents generation have come a long way in their understanding of homosexuality. My grandparents generation, the most hardlining are coming around. My grandma told me three things when I “came out” to her, She said (1) I have only one life to live, (2) if I am fortunate enough to be loved by someone, embrace that experience, and (3) Always remember where you came from and be an example for those that come after you. Its that simple.
There are a lot of black people who have LGBT people in their families and they are recognizing that its not anything that they can do to change that fact…I believe that as more black people learn to live their own truth the more people will change. Some people have to be pushed, some people innately understand and some people are a combination of both.
TV, Internet, Social Media etc…is the the cause of black gayness and most rational people know that…churches who continue to preach hate will see their flocks grow smaller and smaller…this is already happening. The more educated a black person is, the more likely he or she will be supportive of lgbt peoples…the same is said for white people too…therefore in my opinion living your truth is the best way to change people from overreacting to TV or Movies or Music or whatever.
The thing is, no one can ‘make’ you gay. If your religion, culture, or any other outside influence makes you feel guilty/ashamed/bad/some type of way or you choose not to acknowledge it or act on it, that’s different.
Just on the site, we debate and discuss all of the different nuances and subcultures that exist with us as gay males. Yes, there is Gay Culture, Black Gay Culture, White Gay Culture, and etc . No one really gets how diverse and complicated being gay can be unless you are LGBTQAIXYZLMNOP or at the very least, know someone who is and you are open minded enough to be educated knowing that it’s not going to compromise your own sexuality.
I don’t think that many black straight folks have really thought about the fact that there really isn’t any higher percentage of people who are gay on this planet than there has been before, it’s just that more people are accepting gays now and more gays are feeling comfortable with visibility. You may not agree with it nor agree with seeing it, and that is fine. Turn the channel. Stick your head in the sand. But for those who want to see this, seeing gays on tv, be they fem or masc, does make an impact in those people who are sitting around wondering if it’s okay for them or if there are other people like them.
Unfortunately, for the masculine gay and/or questioning men out there, we don’t see ‘ourselves’ on TV as often. I won’t beat that horse further than that. Plus, hereto people want it both ways… they don’t want people to ‘shove that fag shit up’ in their faces, but at the same time, don’t want to people to tell them that they are gay either. Anytime some celebrity comes out of the closet it’s always “This is news?” or “Yeah and?” in the Facebook comments from the Boston Baked Beans gallery.
Also, I challenge all of these heterosexual people out there who feel butthurt over seeing gays on tv to put up or shut up.
Dudes: If you really think people choose to be gay or feminine, why don’t you attempt to mentor them then? Invite the little soft dude over to the poker game or the sports bar for a beer. Be the dude’s wing man at the bar because you so ubermale that you can help a bro out. It’s the Christian thing to do.
Chicks: Oh you think he’s cute? Why don’t you try to push up on him? All he needs is a taste of your good good undayunda to turn him right on over to your team right?
Black people can spend a lot of time sitting up on a glass high horse of morality and judgment but won’t do jack shit about trying to understand about other people and cultures because just like masculinity is a very narrow lane to drive in, so is black culture. We can really fall into a robot mentality and Group Think takes over and it’s as if all ideas to challenge or question why something is the status quo gets silenced.
One of the reasons it appears that the black community is more homophobic is because we don’t have the numerous nationally recognize organizations who primarily focuses on the LGBTQ black community, i.e. PFLAG, GLAAD, The Human Rights Campaign ect.
We are a minority within a minority so that makes it that much harder for us have a lasting unity.
I think the reason why being gay is viewed as “contagious” because it is still viewed as a choice, instead of another aspect of our personality.
Eh?
1. Sexuality is not part of anyone’s personality. How can be straight be part of someone’s personality??!
2. We have so many successful black gay men but because they date white guys, the black lgbt community throws their toys out of the pram. Black lgbt men are behind the success of women like Rihanna and Beyonce, yet they ask nothing of them when it comes to $upport. Black lgbt people are angry and don’t even like themselves. From Sandra Rose a huge gossip site made by a lesbian who is a homophobe to people like that Marceaux guy who refuse to question the black community on their homophobia and instead blame white people AGAIN; the black lgbt is actually there but they don’t want to do anything. Instead they expect the white gay community to open up the door for them, do the work and they will still insult them. Absolute BS.
From what I’ve seen, a lot of black people seem to be operating under the false narrative that homosexuality is a European/Western phenomenon, and this lie seems to have been perpetuated by some of the more militant intellectuals who can’t imagine a great, ancient African continent of all god-kings and queens even thinking of same sex relations. I get it’s how they cope with the social and economic disparity our community has compared with almost every other US ethnic/immigrant group, but all it has done is created more of a divide among our people.
Who is to say there ISN’T an “elaborate secret mission taking place”?
The truth is overpopulation is a real issue and one would be naive to think that undesirables or percieved threats to euro blood aren’t targets to be “managed” by the powers that be.
To question the unseen hand or shadow government that exists is either denial or a lack of info.. Way too much info out there to believe otherwise.
I thought the commentor gave a decent, trying to be ,non judgemental statement about what he sees. And as a sgl man myself ,I personnal don’t take issue with anything he said. In fact, I agree. And I’m not coming from a place of self hate.
I’ve seen more posters here agree that sexuality can be fluid. That there are extremes and that most lie somewhere in the middle. And many can live an entire life possibly fantasizing on occasion about an unexplored act, and it simply remains unexplored. Considering all of that ,”contagious ” is not such a far fetched idea. Cities like Atlanta and San Fran Cisco existed in ancient times with very high populations of homosexuals, from old men to boys. No way were the vast majority “predisposed” genetically to homo sex and end up just coinicidentally in the same city. In most cases it’s EXPOSURE. Most of of know this and don’t talk about it. Many brothers are “acting out” from sexual abuse or responding to an immediate finanancial need and get caught up. Not to mention the effect incarceration can have on some.
I think it’s equally dangerous for the gay community to be in denial or oblivious to media generated hype to influence people’s thinking one way or another ,simply because it appears to be sympathetic to your ‘individual ” cause. Again how do we know all the “extra” that is evident in the media is NOT some part of a larger scheme?
Truth is, people can and do get “turned out” psychologically and otherwise.Parents have real and valid fears that have to be respected.
Parents should actively influence the child in the direction they want them to go. Forget griping about the media. It’s going to do what it does.
Blacks are outraged at a percieved attack on the structure of family. And that’s understandable because it’s at the core of our issue are large.
We as sgl men shouldn’t have an us against them attitude on this issue. The threat is real.
Without seeing an obvious hormonal imbalance in your child , how many of you wouldn’t try to direct your son to a constructive hetero way of life knowing what we do about the gay lifestyle?????? Parents today DO have to think about extra topics In relation to raising children that 20 years ago wasn’t that much of an issue.
Now maybe the fact that I was raised by TWO parents that are STILL married over 46 years influences my sympathy towards this mans comment. I had a good upbringing because of a solid family foundation. So I understand where he is coming from and take no offense.
It’s all perspective.
Have you been to University? What did you fellow classmates think of your opinion or your Profs?
Have you traveled the world? What did the people from different cultures and experiences you met think of your opinion?
Any time I read some one who begins there sentence with “Truth is” I am immediately skeptical. LOL. SMH.
@Black Executive.. Age old question. “what is truth ?”
Either 1+1=2 or it doesn’t. No one questions the law of gravity. There’s a truth to it on earth. No matter what we CHOOSE to believe , the truth in these areas is obvious. But when it comes to morals many want to make it all “relative”. My truth, his truth, her truth. But that’s odd because it seems hardwired in all of us not to steal, rape or kill arbitrarily.
Skeptic? Doubtful? Could be a lack of info..
The universe , from what scientists see is pretty harmonic, snychronistic,whatever you want to call it. An humans are right there in the mix. It’s not to far off to think that the” numbers” in our thoughts and subsequent actions can either add or subtract to whatever order there can be in our existence. Or harmonize or snychronize with everything else that clearly has orderand that sustains us on this planet.
Lol. If you have a different opinion, why don’t you state that and YOUR credentials?
If there is a particular point you want to go into with me I’m open to that. My education and travel experience is really a non issue as far as my “opinion” is concerned. Just because you may not agree with an opposing view doesn’t necessarily discredit the point of view.
It’s not even practical to get into where and how my opinion was formed. Just know that it’s not mine and mines alone. Which is pretty clear by the whole premise on which the article was written.
I’ll wait for any specific point you want to discuss @ John
Believe this though, I’ve been around the world and I have an education. I LOL when people tout education or professors. These institutions are being built teaching one thing ,evolution for example. Yet the founding families and financers of these institutions behind the scenes and in the open show they believe something completely different.
They know what time it is…
Do you?
I’ll wait……
It’s said that to see the change you want you have to be the change you want, as a community we can’t rely on straight actors playing masculine gay men on tv and in movies to change societies views on black gay men, if you want to see better representation maybe you have to the face of what your asking to see. I liked Andra Fuller as Kaldrick King as much as the next guy, hell I like Matthew St. Patrick as Keith Charles more, but those were tv characters, the question to the men of the black gay community is how willing are you to put your face front and center. I have no problem stepping up and correcting anybody that makes a homophobic remark or a stereotypical statement, I’d be rich if I had a dollar for everytime someone said to me “but you don’t look and act gay”. I hear more masculine black gay men complaining but see few stepping up, how much longer are black gay men going to worry about what heterosexual black men think of them until they step up and let it be known masculine black gay men do exist. You use Atlanta for your example of a communities attitude towards gays, calling the city “the black gay mecca” it’s also the DL capital of the United States, I lived in ATL and know very well the issues that reside in the city when it comes to being black and gay, like any decent human being I feel for what happened to Brandon White and what I do know is just like the preacher condeming homosexual in the pulpit but sleeping with the deacon and chior boys those same punks that attacked him are the same ones hitting him up at night when no one is around. You want change then what are you willing to do to get it, having a blog is all well and good but are you willing to use your blog to make the changes you want to see,are you willing to put your faces in the forefront of the cause for notoriety of not just masculine black gay men but for all black gay men in general, we as a community can talk a damn good game but few of us actually do anything.
“I hear more masculine black gay men complaining but see few stepping up.”
Ummm, where have you been? Jason Collins, Michael Sam, Derrick Gordon, Frank Ocean, Don Lemon, Charles Blow, Lee Daniels, John Amaechi, Deondray Gossett, Quincy LeNear, Fly Young Red, etc etc etc
And those are just the celebrities…Many “regular guys” are Out representing as well, some of them came Out either on this “blog” or because of its existence.
If you haven’t noticed masculine black gay men stepping up its because you haven’t been paying attention.
Ummmmmm….all those guys have “FUCK YOU” money $$$$$$.
There’s a big difference
So now being Out and famous is a problem? I thought that meant the gay men would have more exposure. Y’all dudes are funny, lol.
And Derrick Gordon is not wealthy, he’s a college sophomore on scholarship. Neither are a few of the other men listed but why am I even bothering. Never satisfied.
Money$$$$$…being “OUT and FAMOUS” means you are SHEILDED from a heck of a lot more than the average black masculine gay male. Add to that , more than likely having the BLESSING of the establishment from whom most of these guys have their protected status anyway. We won’t even go into detail on that one.
This is the DIFFERENCE Im speaking of.
@NickDelmacy I have been reading this site for some time now and I have held off on commenting largely because as an academic I realize that everyone has an opinion based on their own experiences which will largely influence their ability to mentally digest concept foreign to their histories. I have to stop myself from side-eyeing my undergraduate students at times.
After reading a number of your post it has become apparent that you are either dismissive of or do not understand the breath of psychological warfare waged against people of color. This of course is not limited to the black experience as I witnessed many of the same issues while living in Bali between the local population and white travelers/migrants. But I digress, and will swing back to my issues with your blog post.
Your critique of Michael Arceneaux is misguided. I am not sure about your experience with academic writing on sexual minorities particularly homophobia in non-western countries,however it is widely agreed upon by academics such as myself that the issue of homophobia in blacks is not simply explained by religion (black church) or culture but is a direct result of systematic attempts by white power elites to create deep cleavages within black persons in order to separate them from their culture (tribal Africa) which in turn created a deep disconnect between newly brought over slaves and their cultures. In fact prior to the introduction of colonialism and Christians Missionaries in Africa, many tribes engaged in same sex behavior some even allowed same sex union. The above named foreign institutions demonized homosexuality as well as female leadership in order to create great conflict within these groups. It succeeded. This was further reinforced in recent times when white power elites used homosexuality and Blacks (Haitians for the larger part) to explain the onslaught of HIV/AIDS in America, which in reality was being experienced by white males at higher rates until the cocaine crack epidemic introduced. He happens to be correct in stating that blacks are no more homophobic then other groups, actually if we were to return to inherent cultural ways of thinking we will be less homophobic. Example, contrary to popular belief homosexuality in Haiti is not as demonized as one would believe. Furthermore, studies have showed that homophobia is linked closer to income then race. Lower income individuals regardless of race showed higher instances on homophobic beliefs then their wealthier counterparts. This proved true in the black participants as well. When dissected it was shown that homosexuality in and itself was not the issue, but the belief that it was another barrier to success was. I will revisit this below.
Also, the media’s current obsession with black homophobia is an attempt by white privilege (as in institution) to disregard its own larger role in societal condemnation of sexual minorities both here and abroad. Furthermore, gay power elites whom are majority white, are also using the black experience as an attempt to pin any set-backs in their cause on the failure of cultural minorities to get on board instead of looking at how their own white privilege is a direct result of these issues. Do you not think it is odd that the most notable black men you listed are partnered with white/latino males? And I am not talking about the personal relationship (that topic is done with, and the psychological issues related to it are difficult for many to grasp), I am speaking about the narrative created by the “athletic, underprivileged, closeted, abused” black male being saved and ushered into acceptance by assimilating into white mainstream and by abandoning his blackness.Do you not think it is odd that these gay groups have poured their collective power into helping these men, but have yet to contribute to helping grass roots gay issues in black communities?
Lee Daniel’s furthers this agenda in his show, while simultaneously belittling blacks in his personal life (his statement on the welfare office for example) Sound familiar? Think about it in the hetero-nornamtive context. Success of Slave movies, but the lack of recognition of films where Blacks control their own narrative and freedom such as Selma compared to the the awards won for The Help, Monster’s Ball, and The Blind Side. White privilege is still guiding how we see ourselves, and how others see us. If not, why didnt Lee Daniel’s choose to tackle homosexuality in the black community by pairing Jamal with a dark skinned black male from a middle income family who accepts him. Therefore the black gay experience can be told not simply from a standpoint of hiding but also happiness garnered by being accepted by your own. That is more in line with what is currently going on in the black community, some families are accepting other are not. My boyfriend’s (he is black) family is more accepting then mines, but they have never treated me badly for it. That is more in line with what I see amongst my students who come to me for advice, as well as in my personal life with friends. The problem however for Lee and the writers on the show is that by showing that opinions differ amongst blacks, lessens the strength of their agenda.
The issue to be targeted is not black homophobia, but white privilege which continues to shape the way in which minorities see themselves and others. Thus, if we are to end homophobia in the black community, we must first attack the institutions that refuse to show that black opinions not only are differing but can also self-correct and develop without the need to adopt whiteness. Is there homophobia in the black community? Yes. Is homophobia inherent to the black community? NO.. Does white privilege still play a role in how we see ourselves? Yes… Does is it play a role in the stereotypes written by Lee Daniels, and adopted by the Black male athletes you listed? Yes..Whiteness in America is still seen as right, while Blackness is still the scape goat for societies issues. And sorry for the typos im typing in a rush.
I applaud each any every one of the people you listed for coming out publically as a black gay man, bravo for them, but there’s more to the struggle than coming out and becoming a celebrity for doing so, for most of them it’s all good because white gay activist jumpped on their coat tails for media attention for a black face in the gay rights movement. Have any of the people you listed done a panel discussion or attended a rally for the Black Aids Institue, GMAD, Aid Atlanta’s Deeper Lover Project, a Bayard Rustin rally or any other organization or event geared towards assisting black gay men, if they have GREAT but we need to move past name dropping and move forward with actual involvement from everyone willing to put their face out there. One thing we need to stop doing is attacking one another for having a difference of opinion, comments like “If you haven’t noticed masculine black gay men stepping up its because you haven’t been paying attention” are unnecessary, I don’t need to pick up People magazine or go online to see who the next black person is putting a black face to gay rights issues, before most of them thought of coming out I had been a committee chair and board menber with 2nd Sunday when it existed in Atlanta, I lead the mens ministry at the gay inclusive church I attended, I worked with the Deeper Love Prodject out of Aid Atlanta, volunteered with ITLA, that was then for now I volunteer for gay organization in my area when time permits so if I haven’t been paying attention it’s because I’ve been doing actual work. Take this however you want, the choices available are simple, either get involved and make the changes you want to see, sit back and complain about things while others do actual work to make chage happen, or do nothing at all letting things stay status quo, that’s not an attack on anyone individualy it’s a fact, each person has to decide what they are going to do whenever & however they want to do it.
“… when time permits.”
I think many of us would have no problem being more involved, if we had the time.
I simply do not and also, I’m also fine with admitting this, it is not a priority for me at this point in my life. I just got a job after searching for months and being out of work for 9 months. I have my own things to worry about. I don’t complain about the content the Content Creators make because they are two generations removed from me and can’t tell a story I haven’t already seen. I’m a Content Consumer and I feel that I’ve lived enough to be a Content Critic. A person can be all 3 of these, 2 or just one. But just because someone can Consume, it doesn’t meant they should create, or that they could create anything well.
I do think that with the Gaylebrity set, they could do a lot more meaningful work than just Instagraming and Tweeting about their lives and showing up at clubs to stunt. Could or should they use their influence and legion of followhores for good? I guess. But if they are not truly interested in gay activism, black gay activism, then maybe it is for the best that they do what they do best and just be popular and post selifes.
I concur. Admittedly, like… I GET where peoples’ complaints about certain things stem from…media representation mainly…and it irks me at times too but, I’ve said it before, I don’t look for “myself” in the media because I’ll never find it. Like you said CX, we’re 2 Gen’s removed from these content creators nowadays. I (personally) can’t relate to this generation in real life, I’m not wastin’ my time trying to relate to their media creations. I take it for what it is and treat it like I treat people in the real world. If it interests me I’ll give it some attention, if it’s something that I personally don’t relate to/mesh with/understand then I ignore it and move on.
Gay Rights Issues are important in my mind on a grand scale, but PERSONALLY, I’m not affected. Call it “Masculine Privilege” “Hetero-Conformity” etc etc but, I not affected on the level that some others are that feel the need to fight out against The Hetero-Machine. At least not blatantly. So at this point in the the game, I just don’t care enough to give a good fuck, nor do I criticize those that go all out for the cause. Everyone has their role in this life, the goal should be each acknowledging, understanding, and accepting the others’ roles and the world would be a better place.
Yeah I mean all I really cared about was marriage rights.
When I feel like giving blood, I answer “the question” that let’s me pass the gates and I’m masculine enough to not be questioned about it. And even if I wasn’t masculine, no one can prove it anyway.
Again I see no point in people who constantly remind us that they are gay with rainbows and instagram hash tags but if you do this, don’t get mad when you get discriminated against. Nothing wrong with a rainbow here or there but every. Single. Day? Nawl.
Ain’t nobody got time for that.
@Deacon CJ
I hear you loud and clear. The complaints do zero for the cause.
I see you got your thumbs down for not jumping on the “let’s complain about straight people and what they think ” bandwagon. Smh. If anything we should be trying to “understand them as we beg and plead it seems for them to understand us. Heck it’s because of heteroSEX that we are here. It’s more productive to get a larger view of thier prospective. It’s bigger than us and the haters. We are BLACK first!
Open Discourse is ironic like that… You can disagree with others, but others can also disagree with your disagreement.
I’m all for that. But don’t come with EMPTY “MTO esque “attempts to demean about “education and travel ” comments. LOL wtf?
Granted I AM NOT spell checking and making sure my grammar is on point for this forum. But it doesn’t mean I haven’t been around or am unable to come correct on that level when necessary. I’m at work leisurely making my money. This is diversion, not a thesis.
^^^^^ LOL. You do know I was speaking of another commentor?
@ Deacon CJ. Feeling you on Atlanta as well. Just moved here. Great place to be actually. But smh. If at just HALF of these stand around, profile and scope the next piece of dick and ass parties thrown here, the music would just STOP for an interlude and some real issues such as this be raised , way more would be accomplished . Whining about straight folks is just as nonproductive as blacks at large griping about the white man . No way Atlanta can’t be on par with San Fran Cisco with all the accomplished brothers here.
Now that I think about it, it’s safe to say that half of us WOULD’NT be masculine if I weren’t for those that raised us having the train of thought of “Blak Prophetz” smh.
A lot of talk here here about the influence of Fems and their numbers. Numbers that are GROWING. Ever figure out why?
Could it be fashion? Could it be effeminate promo in the media? Do we really think their mothers detected their “gayness” and encouraged them to dress like girls?
Many here seem to enjoy and take full advantage of their “masculine card”. I sure as hell do. We should be thankful that we were raised by the few heteros left that would share Blak Prophetz POV if stated between 20 and 40 years ago. Your story could be VERY different.
Thanks to the author for taking the time to say the obvious (sincere thanks, not being glib) but it’s such a shame that we have to keep saying the obvious. Gay sexual behavior is not contagious. Fem behavior/presentation/affinity is not contagious. Even as a cultural influence, I’d argue gay, let along queer, trans, or gender non-conforming, representation is pretty low and localized to niche markets (this is one show, on one network, aimed at largely middle class white women who have time to watch tv during the day), with POC and especially black (humanizing) representation being at the bottom (a la “let’s get off the bus now” syndrome).
If I wanted to use to (mostly useless) skills of this (mostly useless) degree I will be receiving soon and analyze the shit out of this cultural situation, I’d say that a show like “Prancing Elite” is first and foremost mainstream, consumerist opportunism: qtpoc issues are “hot” right now due to very serious, very dedicated (if not always perfect) advocacy work of people like Janet Mock, Laverne Cox, Andrea Richie and others, so let’s make this narrative easily consumable in stereotypical and apolitical way. It’s not an emotional documentary about the lives of homeless qt black folks. It’s not even following the lives of an ordinary qt or fem identifying black person as they work at their job or buy groceries or go to the doctor (though apparently there’s a big market for watching semi-famous white people do these things). It’s performance. It’s entertainment, because that’s what we always are, right?
On black homophobia vs. white homophobia: I think we can all agree that homophobia within black communities is different than within white communities (note the plurals) because black people have different (though intersecting) histories and this leads to different understandings (internal and external) about sexuality. I think the grouping of all whites together as a homogenous community while logical for some aspects (such as privilege) is not logical when it comes to politics. The fact that there are more white people in the US who have significantly higher incomes than most black people is a major factor in contributions towards pro/anti-gay causes, especially when coming from big Philanthropy/Corporations. On the other hand, much of black political engagement happens on a grassroots level. Many issues that affect black LGBTQ folks affect all black folks, and I can think of a number of local black political organizations that have been supportive of queer and women’s issue as part of their work toward housing or labor rights. This is not necessarily the norm, however. This all goes to show that such comparisons are somewhat fallacious given the different levels at which political forces operate. (Also as a side note, we can’t call PFLAG and GLAAD “white” organizations since they do promote a multiracial, multicultural aesthetic, but we can say that they do not reflect social leadership or political/moral authority within black communities. But to that point, how much does the NAACP reflects either of those properties? When have you ever looked to the NAACP for guidance (answer: never)?)
Great comments guys. I wish I had time to read all of them.
Firstly, I have to learn to read the comments from the bottom up and not the top down. Or could the comment box be above the newest comment? I just read them all backwards. Anyway, I really enjoyed everyone’s comment since so many areas of our community were discussed. It’s always nice to read intelligent/semi-intelligent men have a discourse about matters that relate to our community. It is nice to know that there is a site that allows the freedom to express yourself, get supported, bashed, and corrected all in the same day/week/month. For what it’s worth though, (I hate giving credit to “the man”), but they are some seriously demented white devils with serious agendas on extinguishing our race through exploiting our weaknesses. Just my opinion. Great story CA and great discourse fellow members. Can’t wait to read and comment on the next story!!!
Whats a Nikka, Mr Nick Delmacy??? You calling me such a term is as derogatory and the alternate for the the ‘NIGGER’ Did I call you you the ‘F’ bomb word, Did I say that I hate people who opt for an alternate lifestyle? There is an influx of this type of marketing within the media and i have the right to state the latter. Don’t try to guess or assume what my thoughts are my friend, you do not know me or what is in my head. The post was edited due to spelling mistakes I found later on, This is normal buddy so please stop the bullsh#t and re-read my post with some common sense. My page likes, or shares has nothing to do with the subject at hand so please fill your readers with something worthy instead of trying to draw an attention to a pointless debate to gain hits on your boring website. No hate in my post son, others may comment and say things which I agree or disagree with but its a free world with free speech #getoverit #blakprophetz
PS….There was a spell check error o the word ‘The’ which was typed as ‘thr’ OH SH#T..did I just edit my post…What did it mean, what did I just do, Does it mean I hate everyone?…OMG!!