Last May we got a glimpse of openly gay filmmaker Lee Daniels’ new Hip Hop series EMPIRE debuting on FOX this Wednesday January 7th, 2015.
I got to see an early screening of the first episode of Empire on a big screen here in Atlanta. The room was packed with well dressed black people of different ages, shades, genders and sexual orientations. Very nice crowd. Having said that, there are some gay scenes in the show and (you guessed it) the majority of the crowd didn’t like it.
Anytime the gay character did anything “gay” the uncomfortable groans sang out like a black church choir in the Bible belt south. More on that later.
The series focuses on a music mogul Lucious Lyon (Terrence Howard) who discovers he has a progressively crippling disease and must leave his “empire” to one of his three sons: Andre, Jamal and Hakim (Trai Byers, Jussie Smollett, Bryshere Gray). Why he can’t just give them all an equal split of ownership is never discussed. The competition aspect and all of the subsequent backstabbing makes for better television, I guess.
Added to the mix is Lucious’ fiery ex-wife and company co-founder, Cookie (Taraji P. Henson) who is just released from a 10+ year prison stint as the series begins. Her abrasive, streetwise personality clashes with everyone else’s upper class sensibility on the screen, giving the show much needed life.
To be honest, this is Taraji P. Henson’s show. She steals every scene, not for the sassiness of her character but for how she manages to get us instantly on the woman’s side, despite her sassiness.
I repeat, Taraji P. Henson is this show. Hands down.
Without her, there would be no show.
Seriously.
Most importantly to this website, the show prominently features a black gay character. One of Lucious Lyon and Cookie’s sons, Jamal Lyon, is (sort of) openly gay. He’s an aspiring musician that is gay to family and friends but not be Out to the general public.
I’m not exactly sure how that’s even possible, to be honest. Imagine if Diddy’s son was known to be gay by his entire family/friends and living with a white lover…would that be a secret in today’s world of TMZ, Twitter and gossip bloggers?
MediaTakeOut and Bossip would be all over Jamal Lyon if he were a real person. Especially given who his long-term, live-in partner is…
So let’s discuss that, Jamal is dating a white man.
As a matter of fact, every black person on the show is dating a white person or an EXTREMELY light skinned black person. I’m not one to normally care about the light skin/dark skin and interracial dating outrage that many black gay men seem to fret over. But the casting choices on this show do seem perplexing in a series about the world of Hip Hop music.
Does this visually prove the point that detractors of interracial dating have made about “black self worth” in the comments section here on Cypher Avenue?
Just being real, look at the main cast photo.
The entire main cast is pretty much on the lighter shade of black. Hell, I even think Taraji P Henson was lightened for this official photo.
The darkest people of note are Malik Yoba and Gabourey Sidibe, both are (so far) secondary characters who may or may not have significant roles as the series progresses.
Granted, light skinned black people are STILL black people (and counts as diversity, kudos to FOX). Also, it makes sense that the lighter Terrence Howard and Taraji P Henson would produce light skinned children, unlike The Cosby Show which infamously did the opposite.
However, even I had to pause at the lack of melanin on the screen, especially given this show is about a very successful American black family. I mean, even biracial (son of a white woman) President Obama has more color in the White House with his brown to dark skinned wife and daughters.
Look, its not a big deal. I mean, it is, but it isn’t. [Editor’s Note: For the record, the writer of this article is brown skinned. Just putting that out there.]
This show isn’t here to make a statement on blackness and the diversity of blackness. Also, tons of black people are now working on a network television series about a black family. That is a good thing and commenting on the complexion of the characters/actors is really just nitpicking.
Especially given that, on a whole, I actually enjoyed the pilot.
EMPIRE is an effective mix of Soap Opera and the Music Industry world of Hip Hop that will resonate with a large audience. Nitpicking aside, the show does offer a welcome dose of diversity in not only race but also sexuality. And sexuality plays a large part of this show so far.
The gay character Jamal and his sexuality are featured prominently in the first episode. Thankfully its not from the perspective of being “down low” or “looking for love.” Instead its about his struggle with gaining acceptance from his father and also from the general public as a musician. Through flashbacks we see what is was like for Jamal as a little boy, when his parents knew even way back then that he would be gay.
The only complaint I have with the way Jamal’s homosexuality is handled was: To visually reveal to his parents that their child was homosexual, the show has him dress up in his mother’s high heels and purse as a joke at a big house party during a flashback.
As if being gay automatically meant you want to be (or pretend to be) a woman. As if heterosexual men and teens have never dressed up in women’s clothing as a joke or entertainment for multiple people.
Going back to my screening experience in Atlanta, this scene brought about the most disappointing groans from the crowd, seeing the boy wearing high heels and a purse. I will note that the father Lucious’ abusive over-reaction to this revelation about his son garnered very little verbal disapproval. Almost as if they were calculating whether the character was in the right to have that type of reaction, given the circumstances.
The homophobia in the show itself, so far, has been handled pretty well. Unlike some idealistic situations portrayed by many gay films, series and web shows, the world of EMPIRE is not super accepting of the whole black gay thing. Especially in the world of Hip Hop music.
On the other hand, I did like the contrasting touch that the younger hyper-masculine, heterosexual son Hakim is very close with his fellow talented gay brother. I also like seeing outcast Taraji P. Henson character Cookie being very accepting of her homosexual offspring…having said that, even she calls him a “Faggot” at one point. But even Jamal calls himself a “Sissy” so go figure.
The main thing that sinks music based hip-hop shows like this is the music itself. Fortunately, Daniels’ brought on producer Timbaland to supervise the production of all of the songs and it sounds like they got their money’s worth. Everything sounds pretty great and natural, not as if it were created by generic Hollywood sound composers.
Added to that the main cast is pretty talented with chemistry and good looks. The actors playing the sons of CEO Lucious Lyon are all very attractive.
Back in May, I asked 4 questions at the end of my original post about the show, long before I saw the series. Now that I’ve seen the first episode, here are the answers to my own questions:
Does the show look interesting?
Yes, with the cast and Hip Hop premise of the show, there’s no way that I wouldn’t want to see this. Having seen it, I would watch at least one or two more episodes. It isn’t the most original or hard hitting story out there, but it definitely surpassed my original low expectations for it.
Will the black gay character be accurately represented?
Disregarding the laughable idea that the black musician son of a multimillion dollar music empire could be openly gay to everyone in his family, his father’s company and live with his white lover yet not be Out to the rest of the world…yeah, ignoring all that, I would say he’s represented well.
At no point was he “Sassy”, “Shade Throwing” or “Snapping his fingers,” even as a joke.
I would have loved to see a non-womanly revelation to him being gay in the flashback, however I understand there are only so many ways to visually convey that without going as far as showing the child being sexual with another boy.
Will this be the successor to The L.A. Complex for black gay men?
Nope. There was something about Andra Fuller’s portrayal of Kaldrick King that made it addictive to see. Added to the fact that the gay character is booed up with a white man, no sir. Black gay men are not having that.
Will we actually watch the show on television instead of bootlegged YouTube edits featuring only the gay storyline?
Probably, so far from what I’ve seen there’s no way to really split the “gay” storyline from the rest of the show. Tons of scenes were about Jamal even when Jamal wasn’t on the screen. This show will sink or swim by the ratings alone.
Having said all that, I definitely recommend for everyone to check out at least the first episode when it debuts Wednesday, January 7th on FOX. Afterward, immediately come back here and let us know what you thought about the show.
Did the lack of melanin in the main cast matter to you?
Was the gay character and his situation realistic?
Did Taraji P. Henson kill it or did she not?
Nick Delmacy
Related posts
91 Comments
Leave a Reply to DFWBruthaCancel reply
Log In
Latest Cyphers
Subscribe Now
* You will receive the latest news and updates on your favorite celebrities!
I guess Dark skin is not in Vogue this season…
Maybe im just not black or gay enough but nothing about the show looks interesting to me except maybe Taraji. I can watch her read a phone book. And i know as someone who has written a gay discovery scene..its really hard with a young child to get the gay across without femming the kid up. I mean usually isnt that how u can tell in kids?
You know, once when i was a about 10-years old and I was at the beach with my family, one of my older brothers caught me staring at this other boy who was coming out of the water and i mean my eyes trailed him from the water all the way to where he was sitting. I didn’t know, until I told my brother i was gay last year, that he remembered that very incident. He’s the one that reminded me. Can’t you write that scene in a movie to reveal a young boy’s possible homosexuality. I never wore heels and pearls. It can be done.
Now that I think about it, when I was in elementary school there was this white kid who lived on my block who used to walk to school with me sometimes (we lived 3 or 4 blocks away from there). A few times he wanted to hold hands. He was clearly effeminate and I know what “gay” was back then but I held his hand anyway. I remember being conscious about it but we were just kids, so it was kinda innocent I guess. In hindsight, maybe he was fetishizing me! LOL
Damn…Holding hands with a little white boy? That scene would scream gay. I guess that would work in a movie. LOL
@hannibal, another scene taken from my early years that could signal possible gayness. When i was younger, i used to almost get physically ill when i would go to the bathroom at large venues like stadiums or arenas because the men’s restrooms had those urinals lined up with no dividers. I was aware that I shouldn’t look but it would do all sorts of things to me to not be able to stare at all of the various penises displayed up and down the wall. Imagine me being a young teenager trying to sneak a peak without anyone noticing me. Actually, this still happens to me to this day.
YOu had to be staring at him for 10 minutes though. I’m not saying there are no other ways to do it, but if you have very few minutes to get the point across QUICKLY, a kid staring at another kid doesn’t send the point home.
Completely COMPLETELY disagree. You’sah film maker. You know damn well you can film the boy’s eyes and then cut away to filming the other boy’s chest, legs, crotch etc and easily convey homosexuality or bi-curious tendencies. LIKE THEY DO IN MANY GAY FILMS.
You don’t have to carry the pro fem flag all the time. Aint your arms tired? HA
It depends on how old the kid is and how sensitive your audience is. The older the kid is the better but no one is gonna sexualize a small boy
I think if it were two boys of the same age it would me more doable. There have been countless times where a young boy and girl sneak a kiss or hug each other and adults think its “cute”
Filmmakers have to account for real things. It sounds cute and all but if you have a 10 year old boy making out with another 10 year old boy you are simply not going to get around the ick factor. I recently did a short film and one of the biggest complaints I’ve gotten from it is that the two pre-teen boys in one scene were suggestive but didn’t go full on gay kiss. Believe it or not, some people aren’t interested in sexualizing children. I wish there was a more effective way of conveying childhood homosexuality in a more masculine way, but in film and television you only have but so much time to do so much. So you have to get it across as quickly as possible and showing pre-teen boys making eyes at other pre-teen boys simply doesn’t work cinematically. This is especially the case when you have to justify a parents reaction to it.
I see your point. On one hand I was reading and thought “But that’s real life.” then on the other “It may be tooooo real to put on film.”
I really don’t think many straight people could deal with the fact that two male children dry humped in the basement. Let alone a hetero paring dry humping or playing doctor, but it happens. Hell, most people have a hard time with childhood sexuality but it happens and I think many adults forget about that, even if it was something they participated in, they don’t want to admit it or they have ‘dealt with it’ and mentally blocked it out due to shame. But children are curious and if their parents have not explained to their children in age appropriate ways the differences between the sexes, a smart, precocious child is likely to experiment.
Maybe it’s easier to deal with such subject matter when it’s in a book but multimedia is just too much? I would imagine most people would say “Well why do you HAVE to have a scene with pre-teen sexuality in the first place?”
But again, I think there could be a way to convey that there was some same sex interest. Maybe seeing one of them go for a kiss and then cutting the camera away a la Melrose Place, or showing a hand caressing an arm, then a tight shot of a pair of eyes then another of a pair of lips see the reaction? I think that would be enough to get the idea without being graphic.
Its very uh…weird…that your mind automatically goes to explicit sex with children in imagining this. I’m talking about something as innocent as holding hands. Something that actually happened to me when I was a 3rd or 4th grader (can’t remember exact date).
Or even a hug…or even this:
Dear @Nick Delmacy….THANK YOU!!!!
Did my mind go to explicit sex? I thought I said sexualizing which encompasses a lot of things. The simple truth is you just can’t put little kids doing sexual things on film. It’s not gonna happen unless it’s meant to be disturbing a la the masturbation scene in that one weird movie you liked about the kid molesting his dad or something. And as I said, the older they are the easier it is but films tend not to show that because audiences are sensitive to it. That’s why “KIDS” was so controversial back in the day because it was about kids having sex. Ain’t nobody got time for that. So put the kid in heels for 2 seconds versus taking time to show the kid ambiguously holding hands with another kid and the filmmakers will put that kid in heels anyday.
OMG @hannibal are you even reading what yourself and others are typing?! In one sentence you say you’re not talking about explicit sex then you use the movie KIDS as an example of what we’re talking about, smh. No one is talking about implied intercourse or the touching of genitals or anything like that with children! There have been TONS of coming of age films where young kids, even elementary school kids, display their interest in sex or sexuality.
Recent Example: One of the critics best films of 2014, BOYHOOD, does this. Its even in the trailer! Check around the :30 mark. The young boys are looking at underweared women in a sales catalog:
Stop thinking about molestation! If what you’re saying is films can’t show young boys interested in grown men. That’s rubbish too, especially if said film is attempting to be truthful of a young gay character’s experience.
*deep sigh* What I’m saying is, if you have a 4 or 5 year old child…how exactly would you show that he is MOST LIKELY gay in a non sexual way? I know plenty of gay filmmakers, myself included, that have tried to tackle this and the only way that works without being inappropriate or creeping out audiences is put that kid in heels. It may not be fair or “real” enough for you, but unfortunately it’s the most efficient and visually effective way to get that across. Now if you have 2 hours to devote to simply telling the story of parents learning their kid is gay..then yes, you can spend however long you want on subtle gazes and maybe even hand holding, but even at a really young age none of that is concrete enough to drive the point home. *leaves convo and goes to do other stuff*
Digging in your stubborn heels doesn’t make you right. Especially when myself and others have given tons of examples on how it CAN be and how it HAS ALREADY been done by other heterosexual filmmakers.
If what you’re saying is wearing heels and a purse is YOUR reality and the story you want to tell, that is fine. But to say it can’t be done ANY OTHER WAY seems to display a lacking in creativity and risk taking.
The fact that it hasn’t been done for homosexual content makes me right, not me digging in my heels. And I’ve never wornheels so it’s not my reality. There’s plenty of stuff that I would LOVE to do and put on screen but in reality it wouldn’t work. Not every idea works on screen. Whether you would like to admit it or not, there’s a difference in displaying homosexual behavior versus heterosexual behavior and although it’s 2015, some things just won’t work in homosexual content. Now stop bullying me. I have things to do.
LOL @ Bullying!
” alt=”” title=”” class=”bbcode-image” />
@hannibal, sounds like your reason for not wanting to show two young buys having “eye sex” is the same excuse used by straight people for not wanting to show gay’s admiring each other in any context. You asked, “How do you show that a 4 or 5 year old kid is most likely gay?” then answered, “the only way that works without being inappropriate or creeping out audiences is to put that kid in heels.” My question to you is why do you think it is inappropriate or creepy to show two young boys eyeing each other? Didn’t Macaulay Culkin earn a fortune staring at, lusting after girls in movies when he was a kid? Why are you pretending like you’ve never seen this? Most straight audiences don’t want to see two men ogling each other period and react accordingly as @nick has pointed out in several of his reviews, but as a gay film maker, your hesitation to even try and comprehend how this could be accomplished is baffling.
I dont think you read what said. I said i dont believe i. Showing small chukdren gay or straight being sexual or suggestive. And macauley culkon oogled.no chicks in either home alone film
He did in My Girl. No one had a problem with him having a crush in that movie. So you’re saying that if Anna Chlumsky was a boy, this film would’ve been considered sexually suggestive for the minors? When a 5-year old boy smooches a girl on the cheek, it’s considered cute not suggestive. IJS.
Some people might find dressing a young boy in pearls and heels to be inappropriate.
Do u recall how old the kids in my girl were?
10. Just finishing that time before they go to big school.
10 you say? Not the 5 year age range that I was speaking of you say? And these ten year olds were being cutesy without being sexualized you say? I rest my case.
By that rationale, at 5 years old, you can’t tell if most kids will be gay, even with showing them playing with dolls or women’s clothes. If a 5 year old girl put on her dads hat and shoes, would we assume she would be a butch lesbian?
Sounds like as a filmmaker, you’re reinforcing and exploiting society’s stereotypes of what a gay man is…
Sounds like you’re being willfully obtuse.
or acute
no no, obtuse.
I’m an isosceles man myself.
I for one have actually been looking forward to this show. Mainly for Taraji originally, then even more after i learned one of the characters was gay. I hope it turns out to be a success. At least then we have a chance for more ambitious gay character portrayals in the future. Shit we gotta start somewhere.
The show’s premise seems BLAH but the eyekandy might be worth the watch.
IMO black gays will watch for the “fierceness” of Taraji P. Henson. You know how they love the diva drama but they will scoff and call foul at the gay character’s white lover which on some levels I am also disappointed at.
I said I wasn’t black or gay enough to be interested then immediately said I’d watch for Taraji. I guess I’m gay enough.
Sigh. Lee Daniels man is white and actually looks exactly like this dude. And if he had a black man, wouldn’t they be on the DL? A la Frank Ocean was? My take from what Lee says is that he only sees that famous DL culture that Frank Ocean was part of and he did not want to do that but actually have him in a stable relationship.
That said, I think Lee is old school and is stuck on the days when black gay men refused to come out and so white gay men were the only men you could date in CERTAIN areas who came from similar standing then you.
The co-father of his twins is a jewish screenwriter and they got together in 1990? And took the twins from his brother who was going to have them adopted.
He was abused and scarred deeply by the black community because he was out and proud.
U guys need to stop living in cherry picking cuckoo land where you complain on here enough times how hard it is to date as a black man and find someone on your level, yet you think it’s super easy for men like Lee to find that magical black liberal guy who is willing to be out, denounce the church hypocrisy and adopt 2 kids who is in the business at the same level??
But I do wish he had made him black only so he can delve into black homophobia within the lala world of black folk. Missed opportunity.
since this show is on fox what would be the point in getting invested they cancel every show they put on after one or two seasons. im still fuming mad about almost human, with that cutie michael ealy.
IDK…black drama shows are the “new black” now. Even if Fox cancels I can see this on TVOne, Starz, OWN, BET and UPN.
one of the reasons i loved LA Complex so much is because for the first time they showed not one but three gay black men, but i’ve noticed that when ever there is a black male on a show they always give him a white lover or any persons of color whose a gay character, but when there is a white male character they have no problems giving him another white male lover. Its as if the networks thinks two males of color would be to much for lets face it white people to handled it’s as if whiteness is the default, or witness is a way of saying your black, your gay, but we still need you to have us as apart your experience. almost like a stamp of approval.
as far as them being a light skinned crew well of terence and tarji had children what color would anyone except they’ed be. like in fresh prince when the nikkie kid cam on the show, how in the hell would uncle phil and the second aunt viv have a child that dark skinned, when two people of the same skin tone have a child chances are the kid would end up being the same complexion.
Like Ive said plenty of times, I’ll give any ‘blk’ show that doesnt automatically come across as cooning in the previews, a shot. Black ppl are the first ppl to try and look for the red flags, before even looking at the entire package. Kinda like black gay men…then we complain..
while I appreciate the commentary and discussion of this new show I have to wonder what the author’s position actually is. From the title to the text “light skinned” seems to be a wink wink nudge nudge euphemism for something undesirable or worthy of dismissive ambivalence? Going by the logic presented after 1 episode any representation or inclusion of blacks only counts if it’s a specific shade? The aforementioned Malik Yoba, Gabourney Sidibe, and Naomi Campbell aren’t enough?
I may be giving Lee Daniels too much credit but maybe the casting choices speak directly to the (seemingly) misguided, superficial choices in partners we often accuse celebrities and upwardly mobile black folks of making?
And one last note regarding the Cosby cast…while race is truly just a social construct ‘Black’ partners can produce children of every hue under the sun from theo to denise; it’s basic genetics. We all know this..bury the strawman
No we don’t. Lisa Bonet and that little girl were WAY to light to come out of the Mum and Dad. Be logical.
Black genetics are many times illogical and unpredictable. One of my lovers have a daughter who looks bi-racial with light skin, lengthy blonde hair and hazel-green eyes but get this …. him and his ex-wife are both browned skin blacks with black hair and dark brown eyes. And I know what you’re thinking, mama’s baby, daddy’s maybe. But the girl looks exactly like my lover (her father) despite her traditionally European features so she’s his. No need for Maury.
Black genetics are always unpredictable and interesting b/c most of us are indeed mixed with European and Native American ancestry. I’ve seen it countless times in my family and others … you just never know.
It’s no secret that Black people are color-struck.I notice a lot of times gay characters in predominantly straight projects are usually lighter because (this is my theory) that’s what we consider pretty and by extension makes us see them as being softer.At least we know Howard,Smollett, and Byers are good actors so I can’t say I’m upset at the casting.Plus I was going to watch just to look at Byers anyway,so I guess the plan worked.
It’s really annoying that people keep complaining about skin color (or lack thereof)… just the fact they are black should be enough. This is GROUND breaking! Black people getting primetime shows (HTGAWM, Scandal, Black-ish). This is incredible!
People, this is the pilot! There is no telling that later that the gay son won’t later date a black man. Patience people! They are not married so anything can happen.
I also love that they brought a mix of new faces and well known names. Also that Timbaland is on the music. This is amazing!
So happy that Lee Daniels is the head of this too. Another ground-breaking move!
This is sure to be a knockout!!!
You’re right, skin color means nothing in this world! Dark skin people, stop complaining!
I never said that. Just as the review said, Gabourey Sidibe and Malik Yoba are in the show too. I’m just happy that this is happening regardless.
Tuning into FOX tonight!
Yeah you did. And he just said both the dark skin roles are secondary.
At least there are Dark Skin characters in the show. Hell at least the show as a cast that is 85 percent Black on a prime time network again. The other would be Blackish. (And if I’m missing one let me know)
Can you say achievement? LOL
I do not understand how you can bitch and complain about the lack of representation of masculinity among the gay black men portrayed in gay media and then not really care that this show is all about a lack of diversity in the way black folks look and who they love on this show. If the under representation of masculine gay black men in the gay media is a problem – then why isn’t the under representation of darker and black loving black folks on this show equally problematic. Are the majority of black folk high yellow with white or high yellow lovers?
^^^ The above commenter obviously didn’t read the article and he obviously doesn’t know what sarcasm is…
I did read the article.That’s why I thought you had suddenly lost your mind. I obviously did not get the sarcasm in your comment. My bad entirely. Sorry for the mistaken judgement and thanks for drawing our attention to this issue. People who watch these kinds of shows without realizing how these shows are programming our behavior in bad ways are like people who consume a typical American diet without realizing how its compromising their health. But most people are pack animals who think that if its popular its OK.
Light Skinned V Dark Skinned is an issue that affects people of other ethnicities as well.
http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/09/19/miss-america-is-too-dark-to-be-miss-india/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/franklin-garcia/new-mexico-darkskinned-la_b_1385423.html
Of course, we’re all anxious to see brilliant Taraji strut her stuff, just as Alexis did for ‘Dynasty’. I, however, will be tuned in via DVR anyway, due to my MAJOR boner for Jussie Smollett (Jamal).
This is a weird review, insightful but weird…I don’t understand why a colorism parallel was made here. Clearly out of the 500-channel universe there are limited representations of black people in primetime television. There are even more limited representations of lgbt people and even more limited depiction of lgbt people of color.
I feel like this review goes out of its way to be critical for the sake of criticism.
I don’t know if I will watch it as I have some TV already in the time slot but its definitely worth my DVR.
To be honest, the color issue only became amplified for me when I added the shear number of interracial relationships with these same characters. When you see the first episode (because I actually have) with this review in mind you’ll notice the dark folks are just background props and/or the losers on the show.
It’s not a big deal, but needed to be pointed out nonetheless.
@BlackguyExecutive: I agree with your statement that this review seems to be looking for something to criticize. Damn, even if you’ve seen Episode 1 give the show a chance, let it find its groove (hopefully). Very few shows are perfect from Ep1. Plus we’ve got a black gay man playing a black gay man in a story about a black family! Can we relax for a moment and just enjoy a show the NYTimes called “Dynasty for the hip-hop era” LOL? What I hate is that I think it runs into Black-ish, which I watch religiously but that’s what DVR’s are for.
My thoughts exactly …. I don’t understand the colorism criticism. It’s not as if the characters are clearly racially ambiguous or non-blacks pretending to be blacks … THESE PEOPLE ARE CLEARLY BLACK lol.
Colorism never even crossed my mind watching the show, I have some people in my family who can damn near pass for white (lighter than all the main characters) but there is no doubt they’re black …. their consciousness is black, their features are black, they identify with black culture, they “talk black”. And besides, colorism is more of an issue amongst women of color, not men.
That oldest son is just my speed…wasn’t planning to watch, BUT may have to give it a look at some point.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who admitted that
O rly?
lol don’t start
Re this review which was desperately missing is any dialogue about who the creator is and his vision for HIS project. Because there are so few black shows/films/projects around,I’ve seen so many black people project on a project that is clearly not a generic mainstream outlet, a la the Cosby Show or a Tyler Perry Madea event BUT the vision of the artist. Thus we miss the opportunity to discuss the person who created said project, as we would with Lena Dunham and Girls.
Gays do this too, hence the hatred of Looking by white gays because it wasn’t eventful or campy enough when the creators style is the opposite of camp and eventful-it’s all about silent moments, long shots and nothingness.
But re this, I know a bit about Lee Daniels and this is just the kind of stuff he is likely to develop about the superficial and rose tinted way he sees the Hip Hop world.
1. He ADORES Henson. He actually wrote this for HER. I didn’t need to read this review to know this but just follow him on instagram, his fawning of her is actually too much and I even thought to myself ‘Damn, this guy is being really obvious that he favors this actress and will be giving her all the best bits’. It reminded me of Ryan Murphy,someone else who also blatantly favors an actress/actor on their show.
2.Lee often speaks of dressing up as a girl and says that linked him to knowing he was gay. His Dad beat him when he found out. Lee links effeminate behavior with being gay and will often generalise in interviews that all gay men play with dolls or/and did dress up as a child.
3.The white boyfriend looks exactly, EXACTLY like Lee’s boyfriend.Not the father of the twins who is in his own right a screenwriter but his eye candy really OTT camp man.
4. Lee likes to sass it up as a gay man. I actually caught him off guard in this rare interview and his voice was low with his mannerism rather brute, the opposite to fey or fem.
5.Lee is a funny man. And very superficial. There were many rumors about the Frank Ocean DL scene in the Hip Hop industry that is HUGE. It also includes many gay for pays like Rihanna who sleep w female writers to get songs. No need to go into detail but it would have been a very good thing if he had made the boyfriend black. BUT he would’ve been on the DL or he would’ve had to make him like that guy who went out w Kerry. Me thinks he used a white guy to completely not delve deeper into homosexuality and hypocrisy in the black community. Can of worms?
6.I feel he thinks light skin is better. I get a self hate vibe from him. He has lots of l skinned gay boys around him and his worship of Lenny Kravitz….
Anyway,we have to keep this short but I would take this as something like Nick said-trashy,soap opera fun and no more BUT still HIS project.
Re The audience. How must that feel as a gay black man to be producing to get MORE black visibility in a good way but they think you are a disgust?
Lee Daniels needs to talk about this. He is currently the most successful Black Director and Producer at the moment. Well critically anyway.
He does not have to do ANY movies for black audiences. He owes us nothing. He is the one knocking on doors, schmoozing and going to event after even to raise capital for his stuff. And I bet all my savings that these people are hardly desperate to see black faces, in fact I know for a fact that none of these finances are black. So he is really doing us a favor here, yet black audiences react like that when he shows an aspect of HIS life?
Some black women were bitching about Oprah interviewing Michael Sam and were tired of the gay stuff, why isn’t she doing interviews about black men being shot. I commented to her that was Sam not a black man? Therefore also able to be shot by the police? Not to mention that he has been attacked by the police for trying to help one of his brothers who are in jail, not the one who was shot by the police. I also tagged in Lee Daniels and commented that black people don’t care about gay lives.
How can you sit there, watch a production by a gay black man AND react like that? Who are you? What are you made of? How can this be tolerated? What kind of schooling do you have?
Why are black people not ashamed to be homophobic? Like white people are? SMDH.
Omg!! That’s exactly how I felt, this #Empire show tonight, looking forward to @TherealTaraji turn to turn out our TV screens
I am now even more interested in seeing #Empire after your review. I feel like I’m going to be nodding my head while watching
Loving it. The gay stuff is very sexy. Mmmmm
I wonder will people stop being critical of people who they wish would stop being critical of entertainment?
Just as an aside, Jussie’s (Jamal’s) boyfriend is Mexican, not white. The actor Rafael de la Fuente is Venezuelan, from Caracas.
“You need to get la cucuracha to clean up around here,” she says to Jamal when she meets his live-in, Mexican boyfriend. She even calls her own son a “stupid sissy.”
http://nypost.com/2015/01/05/sibling-rivalries-and-taraji-p-henson-highlight-new-three-star-fox-drama-empire/
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-et-st-fox-empire-hip-hop-lgbt-essay-20150106-story.html
But more importantly, yeah the thing about heels and dresses…. still stereotype shyt.
Good catch @jaridmanos. I would make an aside to your aside and note that Rafael de la Fuente is still a very fair skinned Venezuelan, not a dark skinned one…so my overall point still kinda stands, lol.
Thats because he’s a white Latino.
Btw Nick man…off-topic but I DUG your dj-ing podcast #24 of SGL rappers on your “way” to meet Ocky.. had me laughing w ya “car” that “won’t start” and shyt…. the music was all good except for the one saying he sounded like Janet Jackson, and the DuQuay (sp?) rapping about dead fur coats like zoos and shyt.
And I fuk with Kore Stacks and P. Murray def. And your commentary too. Alright see you in ATL. #teamyellow
Yeah bro, hit is up again when you get back to ATL…
def man.
So 50 Cent has issues with the marketing over Empire saying that it copied his marketing for Power on Starz. T. Henson clapped back and said she follows dollars not cents.
Cookie reminded me of Tasha from Power.Their characters aren’t the same but cut from the same cloth. Both were were very cunning and tough.
I watched the pilot episode last night and I thought it was a decent start to a show that I will definitely watch next week.
I thought the introductions for all the characters were done creatively and constructively. Each of the characters are complex and multidimensional. Even though I cringed during the scenes were Jamal referred to himself as Sissy and Cookie referred to him as Sissy and the like I thought they way they introduced his character was great.
The scene where cookie shows up to his house and in there with his bf reminded me of the time that happened to me…I can laugh about it now but at the time I was in straight panic mode….like Cookie, my mom handled it and moved on.
With respect to the Light Skinned Casting….I think we will see….its only been one episode. I think we should let Mr. Daniel’s show grow.
” alt=”” title=”” class=”bbcode-image” />
I liked the relationship between the two younger brothers.And that last scene with T Howard at night,didn’t see that coming.That was a nice surprise.
Hey Nick,
A lot of twitter agree with the light skinned thing. Black Girl Nerds is an awesome site that is growing, followed by gals and boy geeks. The site and their followers were not happy.
Told ya’ll…
“Danny Strong
@Dannystrong
The high heels scene is from @leedanielsent childhood. #truestory @EmpireFOX #Empire
Reply Retweet Favorite
More RETWEETS 116 FAVORITES 110
6:27 PM – 7 Jan 2015”
#BroomBeatDown
[video src="https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/B6zcR3aCAAAQQNZ.mp4" /]
So the writer and most of you all didn’t do the research huh?
1) His boyfriend is latino. That’s obvious actually. Not only did Taraji make comments about it, he looks latino.
2) Must we constantly have this debate about blackness? At this point, many of us are mixed. Our families have various skin tone. Taraji and Terrance are lighter…it makes since for them to have light-skinned kids lol.
—The eldest son is a rich snob who went to an ivy-league school. It makes sense that his wife is a gold-digging power hungry white girl.
— Once again, Jamal’s boyfriend is latino.
— The youngest son doesn’t have a girlfriend. He smashes girl(s) regardless of race. And FYI…spoiler alert…he also has relations with Naomi Campbell and Macy Gray (who are not light skin) in upcoming episodes.
There are some darker characters that will be introduced. For example, the flash back scene, most of the family members were dark-skinned. In later episodes they will be revealed. So be patient.
3) In terms of Jamal wearing heels as a kid. That’s very realistic. Most of us have done it. There is nothing to get offended about, especially when stories like this…amongst all races are common. I mean, hello, there is a book called Princess Boy lol.
— Also… I applaud Lee D for not making Jamal a stereotype. He is gay. Not a masculine gay. Not a feminine gay. Not a flamboyant gay. He is simply gay.
Overall, the show is a soap opera. It’s extremely over dramatic for a reason. Let’s ride it out and see how it goes. Regardless…it’s a winner…and Taraji is incredible.
1) Okay. The actor is Latino. This does not change the overall point about the lack of brown or dark skinned representation in the pilot. This is still an interracial gay relationship with someone who is not black.
2) Why must we continue debate Blackness? Please research some of the history of color and race on the planet Earth for the last 5,000 years. Better yet, specifically research the history of color and race in the Media over the last 100 years.
In the pilot (the work being critiqued, not future hypothetical episodes), the main cast is light skinned and their significant others are even lighter skinned. That matters in setting up a series about affluent people of color in the world of Hip Hop.
3) Wearing women’s clothes may be your reality but it is an overreach to say its the reality of “most” men, even gay men. Even if it were, its a cliche and stereotype by this point. There are much more creative ways to reveal a person’s sexual orientation.
1) Unsurprisingly, it seems like it was a vested interest to place the homosexual brother (Jamal Lyon portrayed by Jussie Smollett) in an interracial relationship. Regarding open and publicly-known black homosexuals (successful and/or showing potential for greatness), the current ‘mass’ media pattern seems to showcase black men who are in interracial relationships. In doing so, the shows likely aims to gain/retain other non-black viewership while proactively crafting ‘art imitating life’ responses for any criticism that could effectively disrupt/discontinue the show.
2) A preference for skin hue will always resonate with those most sensitive to the subject/practice. Moreover, the youngest son (Hakeem Lyon portrayed by Bryshere Gray) was the darkest of the three sons and would arguably be considered ‘brown’ skin.
3) Umm…crossdressing as a kid may be the story of ‘many’ black homosexuals but there is no viably quantitative measure to surmise that ‘most’ black homosexuals did this in their adolescence. Moreover, there are many black homosexuals/bisexuals (even trysexuals 🙂 ) that have never tried on women’s clothing/accessories nor had/have a desire to. However, many black homosexuals can relate to the father’s (Lucious Lyon portrayed by Terrence Howard) initial reaction to Jamal Lyon’s pronounced ‘otherness’ (the crossdressing and subsequent trashcan toss was an effective illustration of a black father writing-off/discounting their son upon the speculation/confirmation of said son’s homosexuality). The father’s initial reaction (authoritatively dismissive in the flashback) coupled with his present-time reaction (pragmatically solicitous) were great book-ends for volume I of Jamal Lyons. As volume II of Jamal Lyons unfolds throughout the series, it will be interesting to see if his father’s opinion/tolerance of Jamal Lyons further transcends (given the father’s impending demise).
This hip-hop show has great potential to spark meaningful discourse in sects of the black community but as the show’s viewership increases/decreases I’m curious to know how the ever-influential black church/patriarchy will interpret the homosexual dynamic of this show (which seems to be a major drive of the series).
You and a few others be writing doctoral-level dissertations and it always cracks me up LOL (yes, I can be a goof ball … I’m multifacted)
But I love it! Educated black gay men do exist and it’s always refreshing to be reminded that many of us will never fit the stereotypes so many outlets try to perpetuate about us.
@Antoine
Latino is not a race.. if it’s obvious to you that Rafael/Michael is Latino then you clearly don’t know what Europeans look like.. I suggest you search: Cesc Fabregas, Raul Abiol, Santi Cazorla, David Villa, and so on… do you notice how these white European men look similar to Rafael? This is how some Europeans look like.. especially those from southern Europe, to anyone who has seen European people it’s clear that Rafael is a white man of southern European descent. This is because you can not look Latino, Latinos aren’t a race.. some Latinos are white like Rafael, some are Native American, some are black, most are a mix of two or all three of those races. The Spaniards, French, and Portuguese colonized Latin America.. so the Latinos who look like Rafael or the Spaniards mentioned above ARE white.. they might look different than American Anglo whites, but they’re still white Europeans. So, no he doesn’t look like your average Latin American since he doesn’t look mixed, but yes he does look like a typical southern European. You might not be used to seeing white people who look like him because most Americans have north-western European descent, but people who look like that look European not “Latino” (again it’s impossible to look Latino, as it isn’t a race)
Lee Daniels is a self-hating black sissy. I peeped game to him a long time ago so I usually do not support his projects. I’m not surprised that the paramours of the main characters are mostly white. Daniels is one of the worst kinds of negro. How he can get behind the camera and choose NOT to promote anything that looks remotely like his dark azz speaks volumes to me.
To that I say no thanks. I doubt I’ll be watching Empire, and I’m certain that the gay storyline will turn off most hetero black people and the interracial shyt will turn off most black gay men.
Sexy Azz Show. Love It.
Sexy Azz Show. Love It.
So I had watched the pilot, yesterday and I was hooked. I agree Taraji P. Henson was most definitely the show.
while I understand the criticism of the show, I think they were right on the money with how they portrayed things. Because the scene where Terrence Howard’s character throws his son in the trash, I think will be a wakeup call to the black community and their sometimes homophobic tendencies towards the LGBT community, cause no person in their right mind will “openly” say that such a thing like a father throwing their child in a trash can for something like that is okay.
I hope they give the oldest brother some depth, because he just seems super corporate, and to me lacks depth as a character. And i do like how Jamal’s character was gay and that was it. I do feel with Nick and Ocky and I always say this, that I feel for them masculinity as a black men means having a over hyper masculinized nature or being thuggish. Because I mean, I look at half of the fictional characters you guys praise, they seem at least to me to have a thuggish nature.
This show for me was amazing. And I don’t know if any of you caught on that Jamal (the character who is gay I believe) was also on the lgbt movie “The Skinny”, where he played I think it was magnum or magnus. So I’m proud of him for now finally making it to the big screen.
I was surprised that “Cookie” referred to her son as a “stupid sissy”, it just seemed slightly homophobic for me, but it was clear from the flashbacks that, that was the son she loved the most. or at least it seemed that way to me. When she called him the “F” word, I was shocked and thought to myself, they can say that on tv? and clearly they can. lol.
It was very momentous. Black media is up on the rise again and not just through reality shows anymore but through good fictional writing. And maybe the interracial love interests are put there, to make sure other racial audiences can feel they can connect to the show. Because I got a feeling not a lot of black people were watching “nashville” just saying. So I’m thinking we should look at it with that in mind. I’m a dark skinned guy myself, and I did notice they were all light skinned in the movie, but I didn’t see it as a big deal personally. For example in the haves and the have nots, the character “Jeffrey” whose gay is a dark skinned black man and ….. okay his love interest, or the guy he’s infatuated with just so happens to be white. Maybe you guys have a point? lmao!
But I think alot of these shows are exposing homophobia in the black community. However one thing I liked about empire was that, the father somewhat acknowledged that his son was gay, so I feel there’s room for growth there for his character to accept the son. I know on the haves and the have nots, it was the opposite it was the mother who had the issue and not the father, which was extremely refreshing for a change, even though the ultimate refresher would’ve been both parents being accepting.
Because nowadays gay characters are being integrated on screen, with their sexuality not even being a mention, because were making that much progress these days. I was surprised that there was even a gay storyline on this show. But this show was very realistic, it like true hardcore realities we don’t face on the everyday. From Taraji calling her son a stupid sissy, to even the “F” word being used. I was shocked at times, but commend the writers for going there, because most shows don’t, and for the shows that “go there”, that’s what seperates them from the rest. At least his character isn’t like the one from HTGAWM (How to get away with murder) who sleeps with every guy who comes his way. He’s in a committed relationship, which I love.
For the record, Jamal’s boyfriend is Hispanic lol.
Malik Yoba outed Jussie Smollett in an interview