I often use the analogy of a used car when discussing this issue:
Say you have a car that you want to sell. However, you don’t want to advertise that it’s for sale or even give strangers the impression that it may possibly be on the market at all. On top of that, there may be great potential buyers out there but you dare not randomly inquire their interest in buying a car nor do they themselves dare give the impression that they are interested in buying a car for fear of being Outed as a car purchaser.
This is the life of a discreet masculine man.
Admittedly, this dilemma is self-imposed. Dating is hard for everyone but if guys like ourselves were more open about our sexuality, we’d attract more people who were also attracted to men, even if for just one night.
Example: Many feminine guys who were “Out” during their high school years have told me that back then they were secretly approached by many guys (often by guys that had publicly harassed them).
These young men wrestling with their sexuality at least knew where to go if they wanted a blow job from another guy: The feminine boy advertising that his car was for sale.
So back to the question, “How do I meet people?”
My answer to these guys is always the same: “It depends on your Level of Gay Comfort.”
What is that exactly? Keep reading to find out…
A Level of Gay Comfort is something I came up with to distinguish various types of masculine discreet Gay men. How “comfortable” a man is in doing certain things to meet other guys determines his level of comfort in being a Gay/Bisexual man of color. I’d say that I’ve been at Level Eight in my Gayness since 2009, which means that I shot from level 3 to 8 in just two years.Let’s begin at the beginning:
This is the base level. Many discreet masculine men start off here but only a small percentage stays here their whole lives. At this level, there is NO level of comfort with being Gay. Men here are paranoid that anyone will discover their attraction to other men.It’s a constant fear. They sometimes will act overly-masculine, aggressive and violent in an attempt to deflect suspicion. There are many unhappily married Bisexual men at this Level of Gay Comfort that secretly masturbate to Gay porn instead of meeting other men.
People often say that there were not as many Gay people around 50 years ago but that isn’t true. Many of them were in this paranoid state of not wanting anyone to find out about them.
Level Two: Telephone Chat Lines
This is one of the most private ways to meet men. It is the modern day Gay equivalent to Blind Dating. It is also one of the most debasing and vulgar ways to meet them. The telephone chat lines are filled with men just looking for quick anonymous no-strings-attached sex. If you’re looking for more than that you have to be patient and weed through the perverts. Personally, I’ve met a few really good datable guys there but it was like catching lightning in a bottle.
One of the top Free chat lines in America is The Blade brought to us by Talkee, available in 16 states. The anonymity in creating a Google Voice number and calling the line is priceless. Many guys will ask you to send them a photo but I never have in the past so don’t feel pressured.
This option can be dangerous as some men have reportedly been lured into meeting for a hookup only to be assaulted and robbed. Always meet in a public place if you choose this option.
Pros: By hearing their voice before you meet, you can better gauge whether or not the other person is masculine or feminine. You don’t have to reveal your phone number or photo.
Cons: Can be potentially dangerous exposing you to potential Sexually Transmitted Infections, robbery attempts, assaults and more.
Level Three: Online Sex/Dating Sites
This is the most common way to meet men and is typically the introduction most men have into the “Gay Lifestyle.” Most Gay men have had an online profile on a website at some point in their lives. It takes awhile for men to get to this comfort level after elevating from Level One. This is also where many men top off, never going to a higher level than this.
All of the Gay guys that I consider close friends, I’ve met through the Internet. This method allows you to take your time and get a sense of who the person is before you meet them in person. The downside here is that its harder to protect anonymity. Not only do you normally have to post pictures of yourself, your identity can also be (technically) traced through your ISP.
Also, there are still dangers involved with this method. There have been criminal cases of assaults on men responding to online ads though Craigslist and others. Always meet in a public place if you choose this option.
The more popular sites for men of color are Adam4Adam, Men4Now and BGCLlive. People have reported using sites like Facebook, Myspace and Blackplanet for hookups in the past but I never saw how that was possible if they were in fact “discreet.”
Pros: The most popular method means more men to choose from no matter where you’re located. More time to weed through incompatible guys.
Cons: Not as “anonymous” as people would think. Photos of yourself required for better responses. Can be potentially dangerous exposing you to potential Sexually Transmitted Infections, robbery attempts, assaults and more.
This is the newest method to meet guys, yet it’s much like the previous level. Like the websites, these apps require you to post “face pics” in order to get a decent amount of quality responses. Apps like Grindr, Jack’d, Loopt and Knocking Live have made meeting guys as easy as sending a text message.
If you’re comfortable enough in your Gayness to use your traceable cell phone to meet men for casual hookup sex, welcome to Level Four.
Admittedly, I’ve met two guys through this method and they both were expecting sex the first day even though we agreed that wasn’t on the table.
This method is a crap-shoot. I’ve heard some crazy stories about Grindr. Openly Gay black blogger D. Kareem consistently posts hilarious anecdotes and observations about the App on his blog.
Pros: Convenience.
Cons: The mobile apps offer the same risks as the previous levels.
Okay. I was hesitant to include this as an actual level but you do have to be somewhat comfortable to go to a sex party or bath house. Sex Parties (aka Freak Parties) are typically private homes/apartments that charge a small admission fee for you to engage in NSA sex with other men in attendance. Here’s a direct quote from a Sex Party ad: “Anything goes but condoms and lube will be available.”
I have never personally been to anything like this so I can’t speak on it too much (I completely skipped this level). However, I would assume that visiting a sex party carries the same risks as the levels above: Sexually Transmitted Infections from anonymous men and sketchy characters walking amongst you.
In its defense, Gay former friend of mine said that he met a guy at a sex party and they ended up dating for almost a year and a half, so it’s possible to find more than Hepatitis B at one of these functions.
If you’re feeling frisky and want to give this a try, some of the websites listed in Level Three advertise upcoming sex parties in your area.
Cons: See above.
Yo Nick, thanks for the insightful analysis!
Just curious … at what level are you, and are you interested in getting to know a bruh who’s masculine and discreet like you?
I’m at level 8, but am willing to drop down to level 0 for the right dude! (LAFF)
This is cute….but I must say that I’d rearrange the numbers a bit. I do club from time to time….but the very last place you’d catch me at is a sex party.
I had to rethink this as well. I thought I was a number 10 but I never have and will never ever go to a sex party. And Yes I can say never!
yeah I’d say your Level 10 Ocky. You just skipped level 5 like I did…
I do not meet any of these levels really. I just don’t care who knows. I still get women saying I am very handsome and attractive and men too, but I dont give nobody the time of day so I don’t care. Ive got bigger fish to fry. I wish more guys could be at level 10 and be comfortable. How dare I hide in the closet when my brothers and sisters in UGANDA and other places have to face damn near death and even then, some of them are still standing up tall and strong. And here I am in America scared of some damn gossip at the most.
This is an interesting list. I do have a lot of issues meeting masculine dudes, and while I have done things as high as level 9, cool regular masculine dudes is still hard to come by. This is a great post.
Just a few Questions here, what happens when you basically are completely truthful on your end about your likes and dislikes, and yet people will still question you about your likes and dislikes, when you have already stated the obvious over and over again, for instance these are my likes, I Play Tennis (very well indeed) I am a Spiritualist/Metaphysical,(I collect Spirituality Books and Comics as well… lol) I Love Running up and down the Beaches very early in the Mornings, I Love to watch (and I taught) and I enjoy All Types of Martial Arts, (UFC, Ultimate Fighting, Karate Movies etc) I am truly Bisexual but lean more too the same side/s, I am a Piscean therefore I like too look like the other Fishies do, but that doesn’t mean that I will wanna bite, I Love ClassicHouseMusic, R&B, Soul, Roots Reggae, Smooth Jazz, OldSchool Rap, etc etc, I Love Basketball, and I generally would watch any and All Sports even boring a** Baseball (supposedly Americas most-favorite past-time) yet I am doubted about All of this by so many naysayers. I even admit too being a 3-time Ivy-League College Dropout, I am probably a 7 in the Physical looks dept… and a former sex-addict, yes I admit (that was my addiction cause I am still too chicken too try drugs) yet even still it seems too hard to be true and just be you, when everyone seemingly doubts you about being you. “What Gives here” am I just being too real for my own good?
This is DEF my problem! I have a HORRIBLE GayDar, but im at level 10, ive been to Sizzle 3xs. Guys only want to fuck. I want to date, and Marry! and YES i am still masculine. #Dreams
It’s simple. I can love, a whole lot. I want to be loved. The missing part is who? I have waited and he may have not found his way to me yet. Let me know. I’ll come pick you up.
Oh shit, you seem very comfortable, you maybe an 11…. Lol.. But all jokes frozen, just be patient man you’ll find all that you’re looking for and when you least expect it too. hang in there.
I think the article is very insightful. Many masculine gay men are not comfortable with their sexuality. I played football in high school and always worked out, ran, swam, played soccer, etc. When I went to college, I came out to the guys I was working with. They were all married, but three of the guys came on to me during the course of my employment. It really opened my eyes to just how much bi-curiosity is out there. I think there’s a hell of a lot! One of the guys was partly drunk when he came onto me, but he was raring to go! Quite amazing.
Do you think many masculine gay men are not comfortable with their sexuality because of the preconceived notions or stereotypes about homosexuality that exists?
Being a male of color, whose masculine and equally successful, the hardest thing to do is find a guy, who is into YOU and not YOUR WORLDY possessions. By all means, do I ever intend to say, that being educated, established and successful is a wrong thing. To me I guess, what I am really trying to convey is that men of color, especially masculine, are so hard to understand.
I have found myself, at 24, to no longer be acceptable to the bars or clubs. They have become (or always have been) worthless, for myself. I find that men of (no skin pigmentation), are subject to just as much sexual advances as us (men of color), however, it seems to be more of their skin, happily understanding and accepting relationships.
I have found that myself, being 6ft tall and masculine, that I am assumed downlow and or a top. Which always leaves me thinking, “Never Judge A Book By It’s Cover”! I am not sure of everything, but I sure of a few things!
1.)Men of color (or men in general), have a sexual attraction to anyone whom is their type.
2.)Some men will only say somethings, to get one thing
3.)Chat lines, dating sites(sex sites), and clubs/bars are not for everyone
4.)Some men, like myself, have to forgive our offenders, and accept the things that we can not change.
#4- being my hardest struggle and I am sure that I can not stand alone, in this perspective.
I am so happy that my research has lead me to this forum. I am excited to converse. In my line of education, career and, and dating, some people will only ever accept sex! So I just changed my mind, to never, I STRESS NEVER, to be subject, “TO GIVE IT UP SO FREELY”, but of course this too has taken time. I think at some point, we all use sex as handcuffs, and for some it works, but for most it doesn’t! Hey, I accept it!
My biggest affirmation is that no matter what, I will kerp dreaming.
Great observations! Please dont be a stranger and always feel free to voice your opinion of a post or about our website (positive or negative). We love the feedback!
Thanks again,
Ocky
I can resonate with Dr.LeSueur and agree it is hard to date and find an equal partner.
unfortunately the analysis is flawed, if you don’t know any gay guys, even if you’re out and on gay sites and mobile sites, you’ll never be invited to a gay party. you can often go to gay bars and clubs and not ever meet a single person.
these aren’t levels of progression, they maybe levels of gayness but not steos to meeting gay people. think about it, if you don’t know any gay guys you’ll never get past level 5 or what ever level that is. i’ve been on online sites and mobile sites for years now and no one will respond to you unless you want to hookup right away or it’s someone 30 years older than yourself ( or otherwise obviously undateable people).
sad but you just get stuck and end up wit all straigth friends
You’re 100% wrong here bro. The best friends I have right now are the men that I met in levels 2, 3 and 4…Since then, I elevated to levels 5 and higher because they’ve either thrown their own private parties or they heard about parties from other men they met on website or chat lines…
Sounds like you just have a problem attracting people and creating lasting friendships, which is not really what this list is about. However, I would recommend that you list a profile where you adamantly say you’re looking for friends only, once you meet these men, don’t engage in sexual activity with them. Sex complicates friendships and blurs lines.
Potential friends are out there, just be patient.
Yeah, so how about you send me an invite next time you or one of your homies have one of those parties. Lol #joking #butserious too lol
Glad I found this article. I myself have been on most of these levels. At 21 I started going to gay bars and clubs, sex parties and using sites live Adam4Adam and BGClive. I even started meeting guys at the park. At 22 I started using Jack’d and Grindr. I have even encountered dudes in I guess you can say public places like at Macys.
All the times I have been to a bar I have only met 2 dudes (and only one of them do I still keep in touch with occasionally, but haven’t seen either in years). Also I generally never meet anyone at gay bars, I’ve had dudes sit next to me for a lengthy period of time and not say anything (and when I have tried to spark a conversation like saying “nice kicks or what kind of drink is that they respond then go back to browsing their phone or looking at the tv screens etc and don’t pay me any mind after)
Clubs for me are even less successful as the handful of times I’ve been to different gay clubs I never meet/met anyone (there was a guy I danced with once, but we never exchanged contact info, nor have I ever saw him again. But most of the time dudes at clubs tend to look me up and down and not say a word, so I keep to myself.Also at clubs as was pointed out are the fem ones.
Using A4A, BGC, Jack’d and Grindr I’ve experienced the dudes that just want to hookup, after you’ve met and hooked up dudes ignore you, you meet and chill without having sex, but then dude stops communicating with you.
Meeting at parks dudes just want sex and…
true, as a matter of fact in all the times I’ve been to gay bars I’ve only met 2 black dudes and only one of the 2 I still communicate with (from time to time), but more times than not I don’t meet anyone
Damn I must say I have been at every level in the last 7 years. Reading this was like going through my sexual discovery over the last 7 years. I am now at 9-10 and I actually feel really good about that.
Wow I need to move up from level 1 ASAP. I want to at least be at level 3 or around level 6 to 8. Being in the closet is killing me softly. I want to meet more like me during my time in school.
I gotta get back in the gym and get my swag back!
Reading the analysis and comments by the bros is so good for my soul. Think of a 54 starting to feel good about himself being gay and having a bod of a 31 BUT living in rural Eastern Cape SA and being black how it feels: CLOSETED, INEXPERIENCED, SINGLE, WOMEN ZEROING ON HIM AND GUYS GAYDARING HIM 360d…..How to come out and daring the bundu language as onlookers flinch @ him for stepping on that stage…Plz broers gimme advice. I’m going to burst and am tired of hiding behind that cool n careless mask.
Wait…South Africa? I assumed South Africa was a gay rights ray of light in Africa? Also do you travel outside of the country?
Hey Moonlit though 7/7/13 is a long gone date u posted about that “big fish to fry”. Can u tell about it plz :p. U might not like me bein likened to u, but we seem to be alike- not precisely anyway
Ok Ocky so u think SA is illuminating gloriously under each n every cliff n rock? Blunt mistake buddy. U gloat n beam to that trad-wed of my beautiful broers up country in Durbs. Yeah y not- brite lights of Durbs beckon; every one is in the open. Plz bring ‘York lights to these shadows don’t 4get the Green Apple freedom 4 us to eat. Then u’ll have a good reason xclame that never in SA. I have a hit on this guy I saw this very day Sat/12 Oct. Masculine, manly face,well structured. A lone walker like me. He even had an eyejab on me behind those dark glasses as I was to pass him by. Yes he gave me the look I know that 4 he quickly looked away the time I upped to him. Can’t wait to see him agen doing that. I may do that to him but WHAT? WHAT’S GAIN? We are in the bundus mr. Smalltown dwellers with smalltown gossip. Do u feel me?
man i had to come back to this… i would say i’m still at level 1 but I’m trying to creep into level 3. but how can i make friends with other gay men of color if I am too afraid to send my picture? i know @nick you said that you’ve never sent your pic so how did you utilize stuff like A4A, BGC, etc to meet other men and you did not post a pic? did you talk on the phone?
What african country are you from?
Nigeria. Why? Are your parents or grandparents from Africa?
So I came back to read this because it was on the stream. @africanking why don’t you start simple with us on the Ave. I think you’ve built a strong enough bond to get to know some of us individually. You know were aren’t here to hurt you or malicious… It is levels to this and as my spin instructor says its time to come up on the elevator. We all are making the climb together.
What’s up everyone?
Well I just defeated my self imposed prison of paranoia by joining this site with my actual name. I never visited ” no strings attached sites” so that eliminates 2-6. The act is tiring but I don’t think i’m ready for stage 7 due to the snap and expose nature of Miami. Any suggestions?
Baby steps. Take it all one day at a time. This isn’t a “hookup” site so I wouldn’t expect finding a love connection here, but being on the Ave may at least make you more comfortable in your own skin to meet men in your area.
“Hookup”, of course not. Though I will say the website is very welcoming filled with gems. I haven’t pick my lesson plan up since my friend introduced it to me last night. Great job!
Damn! I’ve always considered myself as relatively conservative & VERRRY shy (meeting new people is a struggle for me), but after rereading this article, I was shocked to find myself as high as level 9. Hmmm… I’ve been ‘shortchanging’ myself.
Who’da thunk it?!?
Alright, fellas… drop by & say “Hi!”
Come meet a brutha.
I would be far from comfortable in some of these mid levels but am out and proud – I just don’t scream about it.
The biggest problem I find despite that is knowing who else is out or available if there as “low key” as me.
Good article. I read it for fun to see how close you hit the nail on the head, and I have to say, it was pretty damn close. One of the only things I have to say is none of these “levels” only refer to MASCULINE gay men. I myself am a “level 10”. By that I mean that I don’t advertise but I’m definitely not afraid to share if someone asks or approaches me. I don’t try to hide it. Fortunately I never really had that fear of other people knowing. But I’m also not particularly masculine. You might not be able to tell just by looking at me but I’m actually far more feminine than I put out. And your gaydar would have to be through the charts to even tell that I was gay by just looking at me or listening to me speak. That’s just my bit. Like I said though, great article. =)
I have a question Iv caught my boyfriend on some of those gay dating sites but he tried to make me think I was crazy and told me that it wasn’t him when I saw the email and went to the site and it was his name and birthday and description and it was soon deleted afterwards but he still denys it even after I told him I would love him if he was bi and that I wish he could be honest so we could work thew this together but he is still in denial and I nevr would of expected this from him because he always went off about how gay men are sick and it was gross and just a gay basher when he is one all along. The question I have is is there a such thing as bi or am I just his cover up for who he really is but is scared to death to face it or anyone finding out. Am I waisting my time on a man that will nevr want me but secretly wants a man. He was advertising as being a bottom looking for a top for discreet fun. Please help me should I try and move on or try seeing where this goes. He’s not a very affectionate person and now I know why
This is very difficult for me because we have been together for 10 years and are raising one of my grandchildren together and he and my grandchild are so close because he nevr had kids of his own. And this affects our grandchild as well
I really appreciate the feed back and yes he is 44 years old and I have to say I agree that maybe he can’t even admit it to himself even after being caught red handed because he even posted his phone number on 1 of the personals which was his real number and them coming back to his email I’m not an idiot But then again iv been in the dark for 10 years with no clue that he was interested in men but he gay bashes gay men and win I had a male gay couple as roommates at 1 time he wouldn’t even come to my house so I would of never dreamed that he had those feelings. And I don’t know what to do or how to handle this because I have no proof that he has acted on them while we have been together and I do love him with all my heart and he is a good guy he treats me and my children and grandchildren very well. I just wish there was something I could do to help him because I can only imagine having to hide who you really are your hole life it’s got to be miserable. And I believe he loves me but not sure if it’s like I love him now because why would he want to hurt me by looking for any kind of sexual relationship if he truly loved me. I’m hurt and confused and feel like my heart is being ripped out and that the last 10 years could of all just been a lie. And if he would be honest with me I would still love him and wouldn’t judge him he should know that. Thanks again for the responses I guess we will just have to wait and see how things go. I no he hasn’t been able to perform since he knows I know so I think this is truly bothering him. And I wish he would let me in so we could get over this hump and move on.
I’m grittin’ my teeth typin’ this because something is tellin’ me to leave this one alone, but I have to ask…you say he’s good with your grandchildren. How old is he, if you don’t mind me asking? You guys have been together for 10yrs, have you had reason to be suspicious of him before? I will say this, if he’s over 45yo then good luck gettin him to admit to his sexuality, bi or gay (yes, there are truly bisexual men that will never admit it). At this point in the game (assuming he’s a Man of a Certain Age), not only have he been hiding it for so long, but he came up in a time when it was not acceptable AT ALL so, he’ll most likely never admit to you nor anyone else, hell probably not even himself, what the deal is. Even if YOU are willing to accept him as a bisexual man, HE most likely doesn’t accept it. So it’s pretty much on you where you wanna continue dealing with it, or move on to better things. After 10yrs, I would like to think he does actually feel SOMETHING for you, but then again if he’s one of those people adverse to change and gets complacent in situations, then you could just be a really convenient “Beard”, not to be too blunt.
Ok.
I read this a few days ago and sat on it because I wanted to think about my response.
10 years is a long time to be going through this but everyone’s journey is different. And maybe just in the recent time, he’s found comfortable.
It’s very likely he’s bi. No one ‘accidentally’ makes a profile on a gay dating app. And you said “on some of those gay dating sites” So there’s clearly more than just one incident. Now, someone could have taken his pictures and made a profile, as that happens very often, but to have the email come to his account?
Yeah… that was him on the site(s).
If you’ve told him that you are okay he’s bi, you’ve indicated that you’ve accepted him but he may not accept himself. He may think that you are just saying that to get him to confirm it, then you flip and tell everyone he and you know. It’s difficult for some men to come to terms with being bi or gay since… well just look at how society treats gays. Even those of us who are the masculine types have our moments sometimes as not all of the guys here use their faces for their avatar pics, though some, like me, have had their real face up before but also like crazy ass avatars. Lol
To answer your question: Yes. There is a thing as being bi. Truly bisexual and being attracted to both sexes. One sex maybe more than the other is also possible. One thing you have to remember is that it will always be easier for people to have heterosexual relationships if they are bi just because of how most people in society look down on gay relationships and also, if one grew up with only hearing negative things about gay people, even if they felt they were bi or gay, they try to resist going against it because of that or, in most cases, the religion they grew up in.
Sexuality is powerful because it is natural and you can’t deny your urges and what you are naturally attracted to, even if you don’t act on it.
If you can never imagine yourself with another person of the same sex, assuming that you are a heterosexual woman, it’s just like that gays. Yeah, some of us do/did the song and dance because we tried being what people wanted us to be but most of us come to terms with it. We may not want to be out to everyone or may just to family but we accept who we are without brining other people along for the ride.
I’m not a relationship expert but I’ll say that if you are at the point where you can accept him, you have done your part. If he starts to pull back when you bring it up, it could cause a lot of problems. I don’t know him so I can’t say how he’d react but I think you’d probably have to have him dead to rights with imperial evidence of screen shots of his profile(s) to really get him to admit it.
Now, I have to say this but get tested. For everything. Not because he may or may not be having sex with men, but he may or may not be having sex with OTHER PEOPLE. You can still trust him but if you suspect anything, you owe it to yourself to at least know where YOU stand.
I would consider myself a number 4, I’m not out in real life as i live in a homophobic area and it would put me at risk of being disowned, but i do use the mobile apps.
Very nice article. When I first read this in 2014 I was at level 5 having been through the previous levels and hated it. Last Thursday I officially became a level 9 masculine gay Jedi (love that name!) and will probably plateau here since it’s not very different from level 10. But can we talk about level 7 and level 6 being a prerequisite? You say this is the best option and I certainly believe you but are there more ways to be invited or even throw your own? I guess you’d just have to make a lot of gay friends to do this and I don’t have many. I’m almost constantly told how attractive I am so I don’t have a problem approaching guys but I can’t just go around inviting strangers to my place or a friend’s. What can I do because I’m super into this ideal level? I live in Detroit btw so black guys are everywhere but I’d prefer not to look in the gay neighborhoods.