I’m a firm believer that meaningful intelligent nuanced discussion is damn near impossible to have via Twitter or Instagram. Why folk attempt it is beyond me.
Nonetheless; I personally have talked about how one dimensional Black non-heterosexual men are portrayed in media. For the most part, they’re effeminate, flamboyant interracial daters or are in interracial relationships. This in itself is not problematic, but when that is the overwhelmingly dominate image…then it is.
Nipsey Hussle has come under fire for his posts on IG, some say implying homosexual Black men are not strong. Check out the post that started the ruckus.
When confronted, he pulls the “Gay Agenda emasculating Black men” card.
Since the IG post, blue bubble vested professional activist DeRay Mckesson challenged Nipsey on his perspective. Hussle clarified and also doubled down on his statements, which I think do have some validity. Mckesson makes some excellent points but being honest, I actually agree with both men.
Check out the back and forth below and be sure to voice your own perspectives.
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Mckesson: @NipseyHussle’s homophobia is more common than one would hope. In his comments are the idea that to be a gay black man means that one cannot be strong — that strength is elusive to gay black men. How does who I love change my ability to wield and/or challenge power? To many, gay black men are tools, not peers. It’s how homophobia folks can still buy the clothes of gay designers, etc. They are tools, objects to be used for a purpose. But they are not peers, people equally worthy of respect. I’m speaking on this today because I remember being a kid and being surrounded by people who tried to convince us that homophobia was really just love repackaged — that they were just trying to prepare us for the real world, where we’d need to be strong. Homophobia kills, too. I’ve stood in the streets fighting for people who don’t see me as a whole person. And I know that I continue to fight for people with whom I disagree. But I also know that we will never build a community of justice that’s rooted in ideas that kill people. So, let us think about masculinity of men as more than the pathway(s) of the penis. And let us unpack and overcome the homophobia that continues to quietly harm so many. Check your friends and family as they say and do homophobic things. And check-in on your friends.
Nipsey: I used my “platform” to publicize an example of the less represented image of our Men and Boys and “The mainstream media” in the form of anti homophobia gets offended? You know that reinforces my original point bro?
Mckesson: You listed three qualities as equally negative — violent, gay, & abandoner — and as the opposite of strong. What made you assume everyone in the picture was straight? Are you saying that to be against homophobia is to succumb to “the mainstream media”?
Nipsey: I listed 3 quality’s OVER represented in the mainstream media’s narrative of what a Blac man is…point out the 1st lie? 2.i never assumed they were all strait I NOTED THAT THEY WERNT being FRAMED by the MEDIA-(me being the media in this case) as gay. 3. I have no opinion about what a persons sexual preference is that’s they GOD GIVEN right and I’m not God. Now if we can’t AGREE THAT LIFE IMITATES ART and the balanced representation of OUR PEOPLE IS IMPORTANT THEN we will agree to disagree and wish each other the best
Mckesson: I’ve never thought that gay black men were *overrepresented* in the media. But the original point is that gay is not a bad thing, not synonymous with violent/abandoner and not the opposite of strong.
Nipsey: I don’t look down on gay people I love all Gods children foreal. I take issue with the larger agenda.and I’m VERY WELL INFORMED contrary to my appearance. And my conclusion is there’s AN AGENDA…we can go fact for fact and get u some understanding if you’d like. If not God bless.
Mckesson: It’s exhausting to see people defend homophobia with all types of random arguments. I’m hoping that this isn’t a glimpse into the rest of 2018.
I usually hold my opinions, but tonight I thought “fuck it”. His entire statement was problematic. While pointing out one “agenda” he gives credence to another. The religion dogma that he interjected IMO was faux. It’s reminiscent of a dude trying to help you kick an addiction while being addicted himself. When you evolve as a human you realize people can be black, white, masculine, effeminate etc. Because it’s only different expressions of life. When you need someone else to be something else or to act in a certain manner to feel comfortable. It’s YOU that is afraid. Hopefully he will loose this agenda notion and stop projecting this BS on others. May the Illuminati keep watch lol SMDH too funny.
This is that good intentions paving the road to hell thing imo. NH meant well trying originally to frame a positive image on IG but a smidge of his inner Archie Bunker leaked out while doing so. And his “I said what I said” attitude is also very telling. Hes biased, egotistical & dismissive…not a homophobe…
There's nothing wrong with wanting to see positive images of black men in the media but don't say that homosexual men are what is wrong with the black community. There is ZERO proof that all the individuals pictured are 100% straight. Period.
Black men, whether they are straight or a part of the LGBT community, can be led by a black gay man to learn about different things that can be applied to their personal and professional lives. Two callers phoned in to The Breakfast Club yesterday morning to discuss this. NH talking about that in the way he did was uncalled for.
There was absolutely no reason to include 'homosexual' along with 'hyperviolent' and 'abandoners'. Just one step away from lumping homosexuality with pedophilia, rape, etc..
I think phrases like homophobic and racist are thrown around too easily in today's era. In many ways, it is fucking lazy commentary. I think we can make critiques and observations without being racist or homophobic or sexist (the big three). I don't think NH was being homophobic….he was being lazy.
I get the point NH was struggling to make but his point gets diluted when he starts using trope talking point language. "The Media" The Agenda."
Whatever point he was trying to make loses its validity because his actual point is being disguised by talking point phrases which host varying degrees of meaning.
When folks talk about "The Media," I assume they are talking about the mainstream media which in an of itself is convoluted. If you examine black and urban publications and media outlets black men (and women) are depicted in a host of ways from the most elegant images of the Obama First Family to the rachet of rachet Cardi B stripper poses. Black folks generally control these narratives and images. So complaints about The Media seem weirdly circular and insular; lacking any meaningful critical thinking or exploration.
With respect to The Gay Agenda, which is what I assumed he meant by "The Agenda" that shit quite literally doesn't exist. Some in the LGBT community have the illusion of significant power but upon scrutiny there is none. Even among the white gay elite king makers and gatekeepers. I get so sick and tired of straight people suggesting that there is some all-powerful agenda that is emasculating men. Men for what it is worth are the source of power. What is interesting about all of these Agenda narratives is that it reveals that some men, (mostly straight white men but also their black contemporaries) are afraid that they are losing power without realizing how much power they actually have.
I completely disagree with this. ALL groups/factions/parties have agendas. If you go to many LGBTQIA websites, they clearly list their agendas or purpose.
Marriage equality, Trans bathroom issues, Boy Scouts, HIV/AIDs awareness etc. were /are agendas.
Elite (Dem or Repub) white gay men are still apart of and benefit from white supremacy and have seats at tables that those who don't look like them (regardless of sexuality) don't have access to, thus they have power.
Another element of that power is white gay men being able to create one dimensional stereotypical Black gay men in their films and television series (yes I know Black gays do it too). Or cast white people as people of color in film and television or put little black kids in shirts with monkeys on them in ads.
Do I think a part of the agenda that LGBTQIA groups represent is to emasculate men / Black men in the way men like Nipsey Hussle presents…heck no.
Nonetheless….mostly feminists and queer feminists are the ones attempting to redefine, reshape, and transform masculinity into something that it just simply isn't (femininity)…and in that vein its absolutely emasculating.
People usually don't recognize or acknowledge a 'thing' unless they're on the receiving end of it, or it in some other way impacts them personally.
I will concede some of your points. I think we are using different definitions of Agendas here. I think all of the points you made are really interests and not agendas. Patriarchy/Matriarchy is an agenda. Capitalism is an agenda. I think Religion is an agenda. To suggest that LGBT people have an agenda is to suggest that we have enough power to pull the system to our will. We don't have such power no matter how many interests we tackle. Men do have an agenda. To maintain power and dominance. White (straight) men being the apex of that power center, they control the agenda for everything.
I will concede that there are LGBTQ+ groups who are working to shift narratives and advance interests and equity in things as simple as letting Trans Boys participate in Boy Scouts to as dignity defining as letting trans people use the appropriate bathroom. None of these things are lessening the power of men or even the masculinity of men. I don't think we are at risk of masculinity disappearing from our human experience. I think we can acknowledge that things change and evolve without asserting that because of said change masculinity is under assault. I guess I will never understand how less than 1 percent of the human population and even less for Trans people can have an agenda aimed at the other 99% of people.
Interesting. I guess there is sort of a Gay Agenda…but I don't think it correlates that much to what the people who use it as a way to attack gay people intend it to be. Yes there are some elements that are about changing basic gender roles, demonizing masculinity, etc but I think those elements are outnumbered by the straight third wave feminists overall. I think that is less a gay agenda than a feminist agenda.
The real gay agenda is about getting basic rights. From better responses to HIV, gays in the military, gay marriage, and increasingly the focus, laws to protect gays in employment, housing, public accommodations. I know 28 states do not have protections for gays, Ohio being one of them. And a bill was just put forth that would address that. Who knows if it will pass (this is Ohio we are talking about here) but it is part of an increasing goal of getting these protections. And gay people who are of color are increasingly demanding to be a part of this-as they should as they have been somewhat left out. plus intersectionality, etc. is involved.
The 'enemy' of black men are the "Monied Elite" (who are against anything challenging the status quo of the rich getting richer) and their dumb followers (see #45), the racists/idiots/uneducated who blindly follow The Elite, and the third wave feminists-Along with straight black men themselves who eschew education and worship "the thug life", so call them out and leave the black (and other) gay men alone for Christ's sake.
Which is why I differentiated the two and made sure by using bold font when doing so concerning Nipsey Hussle.
If this was true, I wouldn't be able to get married. The LGBT community collectively used their power to influence THE SUPREME COURT so non-heterosexual people can get married. Nope…no power to see here.
I think we are living in two different worlds.
The world I'm living has Ginuwine being called transphobic, homophobic and displaying toxic masculinity because he doesn't want to date, have sex with and kiss a transgendered woman….which somehow, victimized the transcommunity.
My world view makes no mistake that my Blackness is by far more of a threat than my sexuality. Although my sexuality is perceived as a threat to both whites and people of color's religiousness.
I agree which is why I differentiated the two.
Slightly agree… 3rd wave feminism is front and center in Gay / Queer culture.
@ColumbusGuy @BlackguyExecutive
Can I just say in my mind, during this whole back and forth, I imagined us sitting at a table drinking beer? Then when I get up to go piss, the both of you two talk about how I've drunken 5 beers out of the 12 pack.
This is a safe space. We all Friends having a debate. I never judge people’s drinking habits. Lol. With respect to the Supreme Court. The marriage ruling was based on legal precedent not political power. The lgbt community just found plaintiffs to bring a legal case.
:mynicca:
I think the issue is the term "Gay Agenda" when he really means Effeminate Agenda. Lumping gay people together and attaching that negativity is mad rude, especially when some of your brothers and sisters are gay AND might be in that exact picture. Straight black people never understand their ignorance until you flip the narrative. Replace Homosexual with Heterosexual then read it , to make it even clearer put Heterosexual Black Men and have a white person post it.
Plain and simple…
Nipsey Hussle represents the typical asshole Black heterosexual male that feels that being a homosexual male doesn't equate to being a man. He really was being PC about it. What he wanted to say is…
"We need more Real Niggas (straight men), not bitches (gay men)."
No need to do a dissertation or research paper on it.
do you think gay dudes make similar statements though? before you answer, substitute "real niggas" with "regular dudes" and "bitches" with [insert any number of terms].
i wasn't offended at all. he wants a greater range of images representing blk men. in particular, he seems to prioritize certain kinds of images — those which are most palatable to him. how is this different than anyone else? i think gays are being overly sensitive considering this kind of rhetoric can be heard regularly among each other but few say anything, and some even participate, but wanna be outraged now. feels like selective outrage in my opinion. maybe it's different when it comes from an outsider? i dunno. just seems ironic.
The funny thing is I'll bet $20 one in every five males shown the picture shown in the original tweet is either bisexual or homosexual. Straight black men have themselves to blame for much of the problems and dysfunction in the black community. It's easier for them to scapegoat gay and bisexual black men than to fix their own fuck ups.
Nope. He is an asshole STRAIGHT, Black dude bathing in his privilege who feels that there is too much "gay shit" and there is a "gay agenda" that is plaquing the Straight existence. He just wanted to say it in a way to hide all that. Well, he did not hide it from me.
I don’t know why anyone is surprised about any of this. Hoteps are among THE MOST notorious homophobes and, if I knew that most of them weren’t flat earthers, I’d be a little more concerned, but alas, I am not.
Nipsey Hussle presented gay black men in a negative light, as men we would not want our sons to become. We are gay men because that is how we were created not because we have chosen some weird unacceptable lifestyle but because that
is who we are naturally. The question remains when will gay men to be accepted as a viable entity and an integral part of American Society without prejudice?