The interracial debate on this website is….exhausting….to say the least. We don’t get why so many black people are adverse to it. We probably never will. Having said that, the name of our site is CYPHER Avenue. Meaning, we should be willing to engage in any cypher or conversation, no matter what.
This new video from the I’m From Driftwood series echoes many of the same statements BOTH sides on the issue have stated over the years on interracial dating in the comments sections. Nelson Moses Lassiter from Philadelphia shares his experience dating white men who fetishize him just for being black, as well as dealing with his black friends who are prejudiced as well, albeit for different reasons.
I’m Nelson Moses Lassiter, I’m from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
When I came to terms with my sexuality, it took a very long time. I used to just debate with myself back and forth and I used to, I was actually angry that I was gay and I was angry at God for making me gay, there were just so many things that were going through my mind. So when I came to terms with everything, I wanted to go out and just meet guys and make friends and kind of find my place in the world, knowing that the world that I came from just wasn’t the one for me, it wasn’t accepting. Eventually I started meeting people and making friends and there was this one time I was actually just chatting with this one guy and the conversation was going great and there was definitely a really cool connection there, there were a lot of similarities and I said, “Oh, do you want to grab a drink some time?”
And he goes, “You’re really sweet, you’re really nice, but I don’t date black guys.”
He was just like, “Well, they’re just not my type.”
I was like, “Well what does that mean, you don’t like me because I’m black? That’s weird.”
And he was like, “It’s okay, though, I have a friend who’s into black guys.”
And I was like, “What does that mean? What does it mean to be ‘into’ black guys?”
I met this guy and, his friend, and I was like, “So what is it about black guys that you like?”
He said, “I like the way that they look and they way they talk, the way they walk, the way they wear their pants down low.”
And I was like, none of this has anything to do with an actual black person, this is, these are stereotypes and these are just preconceived notions and things that you hear. It wasn’t that he liked black guys, he was into the idea or into, it was more like an object of affection or a fetish more than actually liking the person. It was at that moment when I realized, “Wow, this is another thing.” So what is this world that I’m slowly becoming a part of because it was the complete opposite of everything I was expecting.
On the flip side, what made things even crazier was that my black friends were upset with me because I was dating someone that wasn’t black. I had this one black friend who was still in the closet, he was actually rather upset at the fact that I was dating a white guy. We were hanging out and I was telling him about this guy and he was like, “Why are you dating white people? You know that they don’t like us.”
I was like, “What do you mean they don’t like us? Because I’m dating someone who likes me a lot, so what are you getting at?”
And he goes, “What, do you think you’re too good for your own race?”
He basically said that I was a self-hater and I didn’t like black people or I didn’t like who I was and I wanted to be someone else because of the fact that I wasn’t dating my own race.
These experiences happened less within like half a year. It was like all these new things that were coming into sight at such a fast pace in such a short time, I was just like, “We need a lot of work.” We can’t be seen as a group of people that want to have a unified message of equality and no discrimination if we ourselves are dividing ourselves through whatever methods, whether someone is feminine or someone is masculine or someone is black or someone is white. If we continue to create these own divisions within our own community, we are no better than the ones discriminating against us. And it’s extremely important because we have to change the way that we think. We have to change our own minds within our own community, open our own minds before we can expect other people to open their minds to us.
Nick Delmacy
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I am gonna sit here like Michelle Obama eating my mixed nuts and watch the comments come in.
Needless to say this video is evidence of the racism on both sides within our own community.
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Ditto…lol
IDK I think we done beat the shit outta this dead horse LMAO.
I saw this earlier this morning too and decided not to drop it in the stream because of.
Racism within the gay community is definitely a growing issue. And while I can’t speak on how much attention it does or doesn’t get on this site, I definitely feel like its a discussion that’s rarely had in general media.
But while everyone is entitled to pursue who they wish to, and people should pursue whatever their attractions happen to be regardless of race, there is a very real issue with racial self-hatred among blacks in general, and black gays aren’t immune to this. There are unfortunately, some black men who actively refuse to date other black men simply because of negative stereotypes and other adverse preconceptions. So it becomes easy to jump to the conclusion that this issue is present in most or all interracial relationships among men, even if that’s not correct or appropriate. And even if it’s not one’s place to criticize another individual’s choice in partner, we all still often form opinions whether we verbalize them or not.
“… a growing issue …”
What makes you say it’s growing oppose to it just being an issue?
A lot of relatively recent (recent being within the last 6-10 or so years) social and political developments have really brought a lot of elements of racism to the forefront. Probably the most pronounced examples include many responses to the presidency of Barack Obama, as well as reactions to many of the recent police brutality cases that have been in the media. I always say that anyone who is unsure if racism exists only needs to look at any large message board or forum that deals with a race-related topic.
Specific to gay culture, the rise of gay social media apps like Jack’d and Grindr really have brought a lot of visibility to racism within the gay community by giving many individuals a platform to spread these opinions. And such opinions can range from the ambiguous (I refuse to date black guys) to the more direct (black people are nasty). Both of those were examples from Grindr. One could argue that it’s just becoming more visible now, but even then it’s still a growing issue in that the visibility encourages others who share racist views to verbalize those viewpoints, while not much is really being done to combat it. Additionally some of the battles around gay rights issues had a clear disenfranchisement of LGBT minorities, such that a sharp divide has developed between some of the majority pride groups and minority ones. Its just much more clear now that the LGBT community isn’t as united as we should be, and the clearest division is along racial lines.
I agree with your first paragraph.
Based on empirical evidence, I normally encounter preferences (i.e. “no asians, no blacks, no whites etc”) not so much overt racism on gay social platforms. In fact, I can’t recall seeing more than one blatantly racist profile and I’ve seen plenty therefore I have to say that it’s not a growing problem nor the norm. Too many people get racism and simple compatibility preferences confused …. not saying you’re one of those people, just making a point.
The only gay rights issue in recent history I can think of that could possibly be seen as disenfranchising LGBT minorities would be the cost of Truvada. LGBT minorities as a whole make less than our white counterparts who are more likely to be able to afford the highly priced drug. But outside of that, I think we’re pretty solid with our white counterparts when it comes to “legalizing gay” … I don’t know any white gay activist who only champions for the rights of white gays or even was suspected of doing so.
it could also be that for a lot of black men and women for that matter tend to jump on the white train because they feel a stronger since of unity being gay in the white culture that they don’t necessarily feel in the black community, as most of us can attest to about the level of homophobia in the black community. not to mention the fact that there is a lot of self hatred about being black in general so to throw gay on top of the pile of crazy only intensifies what you hate about yourself. so to date anther black person would be constant reminder/reflection of ones self, “what i see in you is what i hate within me”
Let people love whomever they want. Sure, racism and self hatred exist in both the black and gay communities but we shouldn’t look for it in every multiracial face/couple. If you have a problem with dating outside your race then don’t do it, it’s that simple.
Racism is never determined by who you date sleep with or marry. Those relationships must be determined by who you have the most in common with including your nationality, age, interests, values, looks, religious beliefs, and yes race and ethnicity. Imagine telling a Chinese person who prefers to cook and eat Chinese food that their preference for Chinese food is discriminatory! if you prefer dating people of your own race that’s not racism. That’s common sense. Racism is determined by how you treat people as people overall. Me thinks Nelson is not only wrong for being critical of a white guy for not dating black men but also maybe a hypocrite for appearing to have a preference for only one race himself. if he was an equal opportunity dater I doubt his friends would have called him a self hater who did not like Black people.
Race, age, physical looks and body hair seem to rank really high for most guys, but no one gets to choose that for the most part. Keeping an open mind about things opens you up to more opportunities for happiness. The only thing I am certain about in a partner is sexual position, because that’s gotta work otherwise it’s platonic. The world is too big of a place to limit yourself to one type of man. I’ve dated guys of all races and am multiracial myself (though mostly and proudly black).
At the end of the day Im going to do what I prefer no matter how much you whiny complaining democrats cry racist. Just keep crying. Ill continue craving white cawk.
Personal sexual preferences transcend race and will always be discriminating on one level or another. It’s just the reality of things. For instance there are muscle guys who will only date other muscular men, older men who’ll never date younger, cultures that will never date outside of their own, masculine men who’ll never date a feminine man, thinner dudes who’ll never give the time of day to an over weight person, etc. Instead of trying to change someone’s personal preference, maybe try changing yours and give someone that you may have discriminated against a chance.
What Nelson is describing is not racism. Racism would be not allowing black patrons into a white club/bar and/or treating them differently. But being particular and narrow minded about who you chose to sleep with is not racism.
If one’s narrow mindedness comes from the idea that blacks are inferior in some way or are rooted in race-related stereotypes, then it definitely is racism. In fact, black fetishization is a very common form of racism, even if the stereotypes seem overtly positive. When a dude only likes black guys for some “big thug dick” for example, he’s viewing that black dude as more of a trope or a porn fantasy more than a person. And even though fetishization and superficial fantasizing can occur on an individual level without being an issue, once you apply it to an entire race it quickly turns into racism.
No, that would be speculation because unless you have concrete proof, there’s really no way to conclusively determine what the root cause of the rejection is. Additionally, I believe that sexual preferences and the sharing of your body and intimate space is one of the only times that each and every person on this planet should have the absolute right to be as discriminating as they want to be without regard to anyone else’s desires or opinions. There will always be times when attractions aren’t mutual.
You are absolutely right. You could reject someone as a date due in part to racist attitudes. But more often than not there is no way to prove that. Ultimately, who you are attracted to sexually romantically as friends is no body’s business but your own. Imagine someone telling you who you should date or marry.
Speculating would be assuming that the motive for a coupling or preference is racism. I’m not saying that one can assume the motives are rooted in stereotypes, I’m saying that if and only if that’s what the motives actually are, then it is a form of racism. And no one should assume that those are the motives behind anyone’s choice of partner, but some individuals are pretty direct about verbalizing the stereotypes they believe about other races. But even in less overt cases, you can’t say that just because it’s not easily provable that it can’t possibly count as racism. Most racism nowadays is of the more covert variety, so some (but not all) of the speculation may identify actual racism.
Also, I’m not telling anyone who they should pursue, as I nor anyone else (but that person themselves) has that right. And it would be ridiculous to believe all romantic/sexual preferences stem from racism. But racism does go beyond the professional and service setting (its not just denying services in a club or bar), there really is such a thing as social/sexual racism. I’m kind of surprised that’s a controversial stance to take 🙁
Fetesizing blacks isnt racism its the opposite. Thinking your race is superior is racism. It amazes me how people misuse simple words to push their endless victimhood.
I notice that the black gay men who get all butthurt about being rejected by white men are tend to be those who are stuck on the idea that white = right. Just because a white man rejects you doesn’t mean he’s racist. He’s just not sexually attracted to black men, deal with it. I can dig where the white guys are coming from because I’m not sexually attracted to white men. I’ll be friends with anyone but when it comes to dating and sex it’s black men only. Why is it that black people are the only group of people that beg and grovel to be accepted by others, especially whites? I don’t see other races of men doing that. We as black men should have more respect for ourselves and not stoop so low as to beg for validation from white men.
Why is it that black people are the only group of people that beg and grovel to be accepted by others, especially whites? I don’t see other races of men doing that.
Trust. We are not. When non-black minorities are in situations where they are the single digit percent make up among a black and white majority, most likely they cling to whites and not us. It was like this all though elementary, middle, junior and high schools.
I don’t think that the problem is that people date outside their race, I think the problem is when people will NOT date their own race at all but will actively seek anything other than people who look like them.
I have not actively pursued dating non black men, but if Tetsuo, Sven, or Alejandro, approach me and I’m feeling them, I’m not going to totally cut them off at the pass because they are not black. Though, I’d probably give Alejandro and Tetsuo more opportunity than Sven. The few times white guys have hit on me, I’ve dismissed it because to me, all I think is ‘they view me as some potential BBC’ so in my mind, the burden is on non black men who want to date black men to ‘prove’ they are not all about wanting to check off some fantasy they have. How they’d do that? I have no idea.
We as black men should have more respect for ourselves and not stoop so low as to beg for validation from white men.
Looking at the guy in this video, I have a feeling that many black men would be talking about ‘he tryna be white’ just based on the way he talks and demeanor that even if he tried to date black men (which he could, we just don’t know) they would dismiss this dude because he’s “not black enough” and doesn’t have ‘swag’.
‘He trynin to be white’
Sigh. This.
We have so many issues in our own race and moaning about white people is a ruse to stop us making ANY progress to become more successful.
Why can’t we talk to people?? When did we become so stupid?
It’s about culture and class. I will say this until I am blue in the face.
Culture: What is black? Only certain West Africans-who were taken as slaves-have a spirited nature and combative behavior i.e many Nigerians were taken as slaves. Where I’m originally from, East Africa-right next to Lupita’s place-we do not have that nature at all, nor that confidence whatsoever.
Class: When you pay attention in school, especially in English, how will you read Shakespeare? As your vocab grows and you mix with more people, so does the way you talk. By the time you are in college, you are speaking like all your friends. Case in point, my mother who was an English teacher, when she stopped working and started hanging out with these ghetto West African friends-because that’s just her personality,she seeked them!-her English got worst and now she speaks in broken English w really strong Nigerian mannerisms!?
This is not rocket science and we have too many smart people on this site to not realize this was never about race-society’s woes since the beginning of time-but class and culture. The one thing that can be used as a pawn to divide us.
Black folk with not so great intentions and a major chip on their shoulder will continue to use this to divide us.
For me just because Beyonce or Jay Z can barely speak and act ratchet, does not mean to me that they are more black then I am because I speak well and do not behave in that manner. They actually bleach, wear blonde wigs, don’t give back to the community, only hang out w weird white entertainers for publicity, renowned for preventing other black artists to succeed, steal lyrics from emerging artists….but they are good?
God help the stupidity in our race. We can’t see our real enemies.
You make a good point. Black people, especially black Americans really need to get rid of that silly and restrictive mental box of what is “acting black” and “acting white”. It’s counterproductive and limits us to what is normally pathological behavior. That said in the USA race, class, and culture are joined at the hip. Until we can sever that link large portions of us are going to be relegated to the status of permanent underclass.
“I don’t think that the problem is that people date outside their race, I think the problem is when people will NOT date their own race at all but will actively seek anything other than people who look like them.”
Thank YOU! This is a distinction that many either fail to see, refuse to see, or in most cases (in reference to “celebrities and/or people you’ll never meet in person) will never see because we DON’T KNOW THE PERSON’S DATING HISTORY. We only see where they’re at NOW. Not every black man that dates someone non-black is a self hating’ “Uncle Tom”. SOME are, NOT ALL. Honestly, probably not even the majority are, some muhfukaz just like variety and it’s nothing wrong with that. Do you, let them Do Them. There’s bigger shit to worry about than who f#$kin who and why.
Just reading your comments makes me feel some kind of way because I don’t want to accept that you are saying is true, although I know it is. I have a hard time accepting that we are so inundated with self-hate that we do not love ourselves. It’s pathetic. When are we going to know that we can love ourselves and be happy? I guess when our mothers love themselves and are happy with being the mothers of these sons. I love me. I only like Black men sexually – until the day I die.
“We can’t be seen as a group of people that want to have a unified message of equality and no discrimination if we ourselves are dividing ourselves through whatever methods, whether someone is feminine or someone is masculine or someone is black or someone is white. If we continue to create these own divisions within our own community, we are no better than the ones discriminating against us. And it’s extremely important because we have to change the way that we think. We have to change our own minds within our own community, open our own minds before we can expect other people to open their minds to us.”
That quote is so true on so many levels. In many ways we are going to continue to have these debates that dont really go anywhere because of this very reason. We choose sides and then become cynical about it all because we arent really embracing unity. We arent embracing the fact that its these very divisions that give way to sites like this, meaning a place to find community of like-minded individuals. But finding it, wherever we may, should not be reason to start to recreate the barriers that led to the need in the first place.
We’ve created this ubiquitous label for racism where all of our grievances with white folks is lumped under, no matter how small and/or insignificant!! Which makes actual racism harder to persecute. The fact that some whites are not sexually into blacks is no need to make a YouTube video or call a town hall meeting on racism. Trying to guilt someone into liking you is not the trait of a strong, confident, and self-assured group of people, nor is begging and being so easily offended and emotionally wounded.
Eeexactly! Tell that to the aggressive bullish commenters on this site that refuse to talk about Michael Sam or Jason Collins because they are with white men!!
How many times did I scream that every issue is DIFFERENT?! Put your anger and bitchy ways for people who actually deserve it!
But no, these gay black men will cut their nose to spite their face because of their personal selfish cr*p.
And what did we see with the programme? What I said; Sam met his (very DEDICATED) boyfriend before he even thought of the NFL. And how many out blk gay men were there for a man like Sam who was in the closet in college?? If it wasn’t for Vito’s obsession with the dude-literally becoming the family he never had-he never would’ve played well and in his last year when he was open made the NFL.
And Jason is a dork who spent his life in a state of awkwardness. How many of these bitchy black men would even find him attractive? The guy looks like drama makes him physically sick.
So much can be done w this community-there are actually black gay men in the spotlight who are intelligent good people, even more so then straight black men but everyone would rather bitch about who they are dating, instead of using them as a platform to get more spotlight and therefore further recognition.
(But the amount of homophobic abuse and BS these guys get on a daily basis, lol, don’t think ya’ll would be even able to cope with it!)
We can actually do better than having lust for white folks. I do not date, nor do I look at a white male sexually. I am just not into white folks SEXUALLY. They do not turn me on. Too bad if you don’t understand this fact. Wounded-by-white-folks-blacks always want to return to the sanctuary and protectorate of black folks to be healed of their wounds. I’m sick of them. Go across the tracks stay your black azz over there with your choice.
My thoughts exactly, couldn’t have said it better myself.
Ok, I just finished having a discussion about this earlier. I understand that this is America, and that we’re a society that has a survival of the fittest/sink or swim mentality, but this is not about him having his feeling hurt. This article is about racism, plain and simple. Right now we continue to live in a perpetual state of racism; why, because unless the racism is heinous enough it is often overlooked. The kind of racism you’re looking for no longer exist! It’s time to wake up and realize that racism has a new face, and that face is covert.
Wow, this video has been making the rounds, hasn’t it?
thank you for this….. This interview pretty much summed it up
His last statement seems so problematic to me. Its almost as though he give white people a pass for being racist, only because we as the black community have issues that we need to fix.
So, I just went back and listened to this video, yet AGAIN. Homeboy never said once that he doesn’t date Black dudes. He (at the time) was with a white dude, upon which his “friend” made the assumption that he was “too good for his own race”. That in itself could mean many things.
1. He IS in fact not known for datin’ black men. (This could be a far stretch since black men that exclusively date white, usually go out of their way to avoid ANY association with other Black men. I know of MANY)…
2. His friends are all fanatically Pro-Black Militants, which there’s not a thing wrong with. A little annoying at times, but by no means wrong…
3. This particular friend is a bitter, lonely Queen looking for any excuse to project his own anger issues on someone else.
We can easily assume #1 from his opening story talkin’ about a (white) dude he was kickin’ it to that rejected him, and also his allusions to not fitting in in the environment he came up in but again, it can only be an assumption since not one of us on this site (I believe) knows him personally. His “proper” speech and mannerisms aren’t a reliable indicator either for those who would say he “Acts White”. There’s a black dude here at my job that I not only assumed was gay, but also assumed wouldn’t associate with other Black people outside of work. Turns out he’s str8 AND has a fly ass Black (Lauren Hill-esc) girlfriend.
In the end, I (personally) don’t give a good fuck what/who he dates, as it has NO impact on my personal life what-so-ever. But again, I guess for some it makes for “interesting” convo. LOL
Thank you!
Going to an HBCU and seeing how most of the west coast blacks sounded NOTHING like us southern natives, many thought they were trying ‘to act white’. Well, news flash: when you ain’t neva been nowhea and finally see and interact with some black folks from other sides of the country, you can discover we are diverse as any one else.
I don’t know. It’s like these cats don’t understand either prior dating history or they think that once you go white, there’s no coming back to black.
Some guys prefer tomato, some prefer potato, some are omnomnomsourus. Deal with it.
It is amazing to me in this day and time we still don’t know the difference between preference and race. Racist is excluding someone based on there race. Hence the word race. Preference has nothing whatsoever to do with race. Saying I like someone 6ft tall or taller or I am only attracted to bear men or I only like twinks. These are preferences and have nothing to do with excluding a race. All nationality can be tall, bear or a twink. These preferences also can be call discrimination but it still has nothing to do with race. Now do you see how that’s has nothing to do with race? The reason we have so much racism now is because half the people that are racist, don’t even know there racist. They mask it has a preference. Look you are entitle to like what you like but don’t piss on somebody leg and try to mask it has a preference. It’s still just piss know matter how you want to phrase it. At least the KKK and Hitler was up front about it.