AXE Marketing Adjusts To Shifts in Redefining Masculinity

By Ockydub | Posted Jan 17 2016 | 70 Comments  

 AXE banner

Axe personal care products began stepping up and outside of the box, by marketing to a more diverse consumer base. The usual sex driven “use Axe and females will want to fuck you” ads are being replaced. The newer commercials are telling men to be comfortable with themselves in their skin with the tag line “Finding Your Magic”; whatever and however that may be and smell good in the process while using Axe body spray and products.

The LYNX ad (Axe in Australia) set the stage for the company’s new approach in 2015. Around the 27 second mark of the ad, the narrator says “kiss the hottest girl or the hottest boy.”

Regardless if one uses Axe products or not, let me start by saying I think this approach is great. Men come in all sizes, shapes and colors and this company, at minimum, acknowledges this. They hired marketing agency 72andSunny to help convey this message in these new ads. Some of the new 15 second ads are below, others can be viewed here.

Matthew McCarthy, senior director of Axe and men’s grooming for Unilever stated, “If you look at all the vignettes in the campaign, it really represents a tremendous spectrum of masculinity. That includes personal attributes like hair, nose, body type, clothing type and lifestyle. We want to make it clear it doesn’t matter how you define masculinity, which is very different than some of the storytelling we’ve done in the past.”

Again…fantastic message and outlook within their new “go forward” strategy. Here is the new commercial.

Great commercial and it answers the call of needing more imagery of regular complex (non-hyper masculine) men in media. The cook in the pizzeria and the two guys in the record/book store were my favorite.

At the 18 second mark the narrator says “on fire as you rock those heels”, while feminine men in high-heels wearing female attire, vogue and fall out on the floor. This section of the ad is what got the gay community singing praises for this new ad campaign. The joy is in that they are being “included”.

Carlo Cavallone, executive creative director of 72andSunny Amsterdam said, “There’s not one single-minded, one dimensional idea of masculinity out there. We wanted to make it as inclusive as possible. We wanted to give to guys a sense of confidence and liberate them from stereotypical bullshit about what it means to be a man. The ads aim to show the diversity of masculinity without becoming a sociological study or losing a sense of fun or irony.”

drag

To me there is always this lingering essence within the conversation of expanding or relaxing masculinity to make it more traditionally feminine…just for the sake of inclusion. If a man wearing women’s cloths and accessories is masculine then what is feminine? Are we on the cusp of advising that free and true masculinity should include males presenting themselves as women is just a different form of masculinity?

Examining masculinity or bucking traditional masculine norms shouldn’t morph into femininity. They both have their valuable separate spaces and intersections…but they are not the same.

Feminine men are men. Their manhood is as important and relevant to the discussion on maleness as any masculine man’s. Nonetheless femininity is not masculinity. Regardless of how we want the spectrum to slide or blur to cater to sensibilities.

 Axe gay

 

 

 

About the Author
Ockydub

Octavius is a founder and editor of Cypher Avenue. He's here to help speak for us and show the world that masculine gay / bisexual men of color are not a part of the stereotypical gay normal that is seen and fed to the masses. No...we are a distinct breed, filled with character and pride. Cypher Avenue is here to show the world how we are different.

   
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70 Comments Feel Free To Join The Cypher.

  1. redsai84
    redsai84 | January 17th, 2016
    0

    this is great im happy that companies are becoming more diverse

  2. Tyroc
    Tyroc | January 17th, 2016
    +1

    I don't know if AXE can top theses three

  3. redsai84
    redsai84 | January 17th, 2016
    0

    TyrocI don't know if AXE can top theses three

    dude that boom chicka wah wah one :dead:

  4. Nick Delmacy
    Nick Delmacy | January 17th, 2016
    0

    Can I just say that the dude with the tattoos and piercings is just gross? To each his own but, no… To me he looks like he smells like Lube warmed up in the microwave.

    media

  5. DreG
    DreG | January 17th, 2016
    0
    Tyroc

    I don't know if AXE can top theses three

    I asked my brother is Axe gets these results for him and he said "If it did I'd brush my teeth with it" lol

  6. Ockydub
    ockydub | January 17th, 2016
    0

    Nick DelmacyCan I just say that the dude with the tattoos and piercings is just gross? To each his own but, no… To me he looks like he smells like Lube warmed up in the microwave.

    media

    View attachment 1371
    You to much. Sometimes it pains me to agree with you. Tatts on the face freaks me out.

  7. Cyrus-Brooks
    Cyrus-Brooks | January 17th, 2016
    0

    The idea that masculinity should be redifined to include feminine traits, characteristics, and clothing is being pushed certain sectors of society, namely those who have a problem with masculinity. However if the masculinity is changed to include any and everything it ceases to be relevant. It becomes meaningless.

  8. SB3
    SB3 | January 17th, 2016
    0

    ockydubView attachment 1371
    You to much. Sometimes it pains me to agree with you. Tatts on the face freaks me out.

    Eventho..The Game has a face tatt..

  9. Ockydub
    ockydub | January 17th, 2016
    0

    Cyrus-BrooksThe idea that masculinity should be redifined to include feminine traits, characteristics, and clothing is being pushed certain sectors of society, namely those who have a problem with masculinity. However if the masculinity is changed to include any and everything it ceases to be relevant. It becomes meaningless.

    So are you saying that "these" people only think femininity is relevant and masculinity should play only a reproductive role in society?????

  10. Nick Delmacy
    Nick Delmacy | January 17th, 2016
    0
    SB3

    Eventho..The Game has a face tatt..

    The Game is gross too tho… :yeshrug:

  11. Ockydub
    ockydub | January 17th, 2016
    0
    SB3

    Eventho..The Game has a face tatt..

    Money or fame doesn't trump my standards or preferences.

  12. SB3
    SB3 | January 17th, 2016
    0

    Nick DelmacyThe Game is gross too tho… :yeshrug:

    He's sooo cute!

  13. Ockydub
    ockydub | January 17th, 2016
    0

    Nick DelmacyThe Game is gross too tho… :yeshrug:

    LOL…I'm not saying ANY of these dudes with face tatts are gross. I'm just saying they are not my type. The guy from the ad and The Game are both attractive to me, I'm just not attracted to them.

  14. SB3
    SB3 | January 17th, 2016
    0

    ockydubMoney or fame doesn't trump my standards or preferences.

    LIKE I SAID! He's sooo cute tho!!!!

  15. Nick Delmacy
    Nick Delmacy | January 17th, 2016
    0

    ockydubLOL…I'm not saying ANY of these dudes with face tatts are gross. I'm just saying they are not my type. The guy from the ad and The Game are both attractive to me, I'm just not attracted to them.

    SB3He's sooo cute!

    If this is what you guys think is "cute", the bar for "rough looking" is def low…lol

  16. SB3
    SB3 | January 18th, 2016
    0

    Nick DelmacyIf this is what you guys think is "cute", the bar for "rough looking" is def low…lol

    Cut it out! U cant grab a cpl of his ruff pics n try to make a point. He has a zillion pics online! His attractiveness, to me, at least, is that baby face. N he's likeable.

  17. Ockydub
    ockydub | January 18th, 2016
    0

    Nick DelmacyIf this is what you guys think is "cute", the bar for "rough looking" is def low…lol

    See you being mean. He is not unattractive or ugly in the traditional sense or standards. Be real…if he wasn't The Game, but just a reg masculine, educated, had his own brand and business and his money game is tight, I would have to step outside my norm and give the brotha some play. Sometimes, what is on the inside counts more than outside appearances….BUT being honest…how I would get to that point upon initially seeing the face tatts I don't know.

  18. Nick Delmacy
    Nick Delmacy | January 18th, 2016
    0

    SB3Cut it out! U cant grab a cpl of his ruff pics n try to make a point. He has a zillion pics online! His attractiveness, to me, at least, is that baby face. N he's likeable.

  19. SB3
    SB3 | January 18th, 2016
    0

    Nick Delmacy

    Dont u EVER! Try to use Chloe against me!

    N while I go on record to announce that Im not a chester, (I actually prefer to date older!!) The Game kinda has 1 of those faces that u cant stay mad at. He's adorable

  20. ControlledXaos | January 18th, 2016
    0

    If The Game didn't have those face and neck tattoos and tightened up that facial hair I could rock with him fully but as things are now…

  21. SB3
    SB3 | January 18th, 2016
    0

    Yall sooo mean. This is why Im single. Goin str8 in February!

  22. Nick Delmacy
    Nick Delmacy | January 18th, 2016
    0

    ControlledXaosIf The Game didn't have those face and neck tattoos and tightened up that facial hair I could rock with him fully but as things are now…

    Exactly. The damage has already been done. Plus, nikkas throwing around the "baby Face" descrip too loosely, ain't no babies I know got face tatts, rough skin and scruffy beards

  23. Ockydub
    ockydub | January 18th, 2016
    0

    LMAO…can we get back to the topic of the post please?

  24. ControlledXaos | January 18th, 2016
    0

    I agree with @ockydub, which happens a lot BTW.

    He's legit attractive but I find facial tattoos distracting. I kinda view it like makeup. Sometimes less is more and it takes away from his natural attractiveness. It's gilding the lilly.

    • questforknowledge
      questforknowledge | January 19th, 2016
      0

      Yea I agree with you Jeff. The game is cute to me also, but I wish he didn't have those face tattoos, I feel it takes away from his sex appeal. He would look so much better without them lol.

  25. Cyrus-Brooks
    Cyrus-Brooks | January 18th, 2016
    0

    Face tatts are a deal breaker. Besides looking awful and freakish. Your basically announcing to the world that you're either a gang member, ex-convict, or just unemployable.

  26. SB3
    SB3 | January 18th, 2016
    0

    Nick DelmacyExactly. The damage has already been done. Plus, nikkas throwing around the "baby Face" descrip too loosely, ain't no babies I know got face tatts, rough skin and scruffy beards

    'Baby face' just means smiley n shyt. Cute smile I guess. Dimples, cheeks, etc.

  27. Ockydub
    ockydub | January 18th, 2016
    0

    ControlledXaosbut I find facial tattoos distracting. I kinda view it like makeup.

    Well, before we got back on topic…can we acknowledge this solid observation right here!!!!?????

  28. SB3
    SB3 | January 18th, 2016
    0

    ControlledXaosI agree with @ockydub, which happens a lot BTW.

    He's legit attractive but I find facial tattoos distracting. I kinda view it like makeup. Sometimes less is more and it takes away from his natural attractiveness. It's gilding the lilly.

    Dont yall be trying to become a tandem on these boards!

  29. Nick Delmacy
    Nick Delmacy | January 18th, 2016
    0
    SB3

    'Baby face' just means smiley n shyt. Cute smile I guess. Dimples, cheeks, etc.

    No…Baby Face means exactly how it sounds…Cute Smile means Cute Smile…

    BJ Armstrong, even at 48-effing-years-old, still has a Baby Face, The Game does not, lol

    THEN:

    [​IMG]

    NOW:

    [​IMG]

  30. SB3
    SB3 | January 18th, 2016
    0

    I dont like face tatts either! We're all in agreement! I was just sayin…

  31. Nick Delmacy
    Nick Delmacy | January 18th, 2016
    0

    ockydubLMAO…can we get back to the topic of the post please?

    Clearly we don't wanna talk about androgynous anorexic AXE models with nipple rings and too many tatts, lol

  32. SB3
    SB3 | January 18th, 2016
    0

    Nick DelmacyNo…Baby Face means exactly how it sounds…Cute Smile means Cute Smile…

    BJ Armstrong, even at 48-effing-years-old, still has a Baby Face, The Game does not, lol

    THEN:

    NOW:

    Im not doin this w u tonight negro! Sooo damn hard headed, just for the sake of it

  33. ControlledXaos | January 18th, 2016
    0
  34. Nick Delmacy
    Nick Delmacy | January 18th, 2016
    0

    ControlledXaos

    What was the original topic again? Masculinity being watered down by a deodorant company?

    Looking and smelling good does not make one "feminine"…If so, then The Game must be Hyper-Masculine….

    (See what I did there?)

  35. SB3
    SB3 | January 18th, 2016
    0

    Nick DelmacyWhat was the original topic again? Masculinity being watered down by a deodorant company?

    Looking and smelling good does not make one "feminine"…If so, then The Game must be Hyper-Masculine….

    (See what I did there?)

    This is exactly why I only invited @ockydub to the last cookout…

  36. Ockydub
    ockydub | January 18th, 2016
    0

    Nick DelmacyWhat was the original topic again? Masculinity being watered down by a deodorant company?

    Looking and smelling good does not make one "feminine"…If so, then The Game must be Hyper-Masculine….

    (See what I did there?)

    :ufdup::snoop::hamster:

  37. Tyroc
    Tyroc | January 18th, 2016
    0

    The Game would be a natural spokesman for Axe.

    After wearing it, there was a change of heart.
    View attachment 1372

  38. Ockydub
    ockydub | January 18th, 2016
    0

    TyrocThe Game would be a natural spokesman for Axe.

    After wearing it, there was a change of heart.
    View attachment 1372

  39. African King
    African King | January 18th, 2016
    0

    SB3He's sooo cute!

    I have always thought The Game was easy on the eye.

  40. Lancer
    Lancer | January 18th, 2016
    0

    I never knew Axe catered to people of colour. I have never bought an Axe product for my hair, I usually stick to hair products i find at 'Afro-Caribbean' stores. I have to try one out, and i NEVER knew about using a Sponge.
    Unlocked: Black hair Hack!

  41. Cyrus-Brooks
    Cyrus-Brooks | January 18th, 2016
    0

    ockydubSo are you saying that "these" people only think femininity is relevant and masculinity should play only a reproductive role in society?????

    From what I can tell. They seem to want to abolish the concept of masculinity altogether. Masculinity is not necessary for procreation look at how many straight dudes that are subservient to their wives. This may just be the chauvinistic instinct in me but if I was straight I wouldn't allow a broad to push me around.

  42. alton
    alton | January 18th, 2016
    0

    Nick Delmacy

    WTF?!! LMFAO!!!!!!

  43. alton
    alton | January 18th, 2016
    0

    " If a man wearing women’s cloths and accessories is masculine then what is feminine? Are we on the cusp of advising that free and true masculinity should include males presenting themselves as women is just a different form of masculinity?"
    I'm kinda of upset that with such a great commercial, the 8 sec of Ball Room scene seems to be the focus. smh @Ocky, Im a little confused man, (and DONT jump down my throat if I have your article misconstrued) but it seem like you praise the commercial, but then you kinda goin into a little minor tiff about the Ballroom scene and then start goin into "de-masculation". Didn't seem to me like that was the focus of the commercial. Again, I may just not have read the article clearly enough so don't pop off at me. LOL

    Side rant…
    I'm just as "For Masculinity" as the next masc dude however, for all yous that are 'bitchin' about "Society is eliminating masculinity…" 'cmon man. Masculinity is ALWAYS going to be present. There's ALWAYS gonna be real dudes (according to us Old School dudes' views of masculinity) in the world, no matter what the media portrays. I'm sorry, but this argument sounds exactly like the religious zealots bitchin' that Gay Marriage is going to "destroy the family unit". Like every muthaf@#k in the world is just gonna BE Gay now because gay marriage is legal. They also try say is more gay people in the world now. No trick, just more people are comfortable being who they are. The Media can show all the rappers in skirts, voguein' queens, and Mivas (Male Divas) its wants, dudes are gonna do them. If a ni@@a sees ASAP Rocky in a skirt, and decide he wanna throw on one, hey…that wasn't ASAP's fault. That ni@@a ALWAYS wanted to rock a Sun Dress and clogs, he just needed an excuse LOL It's not "more" effeminate dudes in the world, and masculinity isn't "physically' being diminished. The older dudes are just muhf@#kz that been keepin' themselves "under wraps" and now feel more comfortable steppin' outside the box, and the younger dudes comin up just never had to do a tenure in "The Closet" that a lot of us "Gen X" had to sit our asses in. They always been here. Chill man, lets these people do them. I think the commercial is cool and I don't see it as "lessening" masculinity. It doesn't make me wanna go all "non-gender gay bohemian hippie chic", I don't have any kids that I need to worry about being "influenced" by the media, and there's always gonna be masculine men in the world so, what do I care. LOL Matter fact maybe I'm missing some point, but I didn't see the commercial as specifically referring to masculinity period. The message I got was you may not be what society says you are, says you should look like, or have the things society says you should have, but work with what you got.

    Side note, if I am wrong and "they" ARE trying to "abolish masculinity", WTF do you or I care? We'll all be long dead before society becomes completely permeated in adrogyne, anyways. LOL

  44. bisonboy
    bisonboy | January 18th, 2016
    0

    I didn't read all the comments posted ahead of me, but I recently heard someone say if "men wearing women clothing is considered 'feminine' then what is women wearing men clothing 'masculine'?

  45. Ockydub
    ockydub | January 18th, 2016
    0

    altonAgain, I may just not have read the article clearly enough so don't pop off at me. LOL

    Yeah…post was in 3 parts. The focus on evolving masculinity. / Gays (all the mainstream gay websites featured a post about this ad) praising the evolution of "masculinity" because voguing fems were included in the ad. / Is fem now masculinity.

  46. alton
    alton | January 18th, 2016
    0

    ockydubYeah…post was in 3 parts. The focus on evolving masculinity. / Gays (all the mainstream gay websites featured a post about this ad) praising the evolution of "masculinity" because voguing fems were included in the ad. / Is fem now masculinity.

    Aight, gotcha..So maybe I just viewed the commercial in a different light because to me it was just saying, "Be who you are. You dont have to fit "Societal Norms" to be accepted. If youre a nerd, "ugly", fat, a chef, animal lover, Vogueing Queen, etc…use out product and someone out there will accept you." I didnt see the focus on masculinity. But, its just personal interpretation.

  47. DreG
    DreG | January 19th, 2016
    0

    questforknowledgeYea I agree with you Jeff

    Gasp! Secret Identity revealed.Just like how I almost call @African King ___ on here all the time.

  48. Tyroc
    Tyroc | January 19th, 2016
    0

    DreGGasp! Secret Identity revealed

    View attachment 1386

  49. ControlledXaos | January 19th, 2016
    0

    alton" If a ni@@a sees ASAP Rocky in a skirt, and decide he wanna throw on one, hey…that wasn't ASAP's fault. That ni@@a ALWAYS wanted to rock a Sun Dress and clogs, he just needed an excuse LOL

    I had to put my phone down and stop reading at that one. Sundress and clogs! Lol

  50. Jaa
    Jaa | January 19th, 2016
    0

    altonIf a ni@@a sees ASAP Rocky in a skirt, and decide he wanna throw on one, hey…that wasn't ASAP's fault. That ni@@a ALWAYS wanted to rock a Sun Dress and clogs, he just needed an excuse LOL It's not "more" effeminate dudes in the world, and masculinity isn't "physically' being diminished. The older dudes are just muhf@#kz that been keepin' themselves "under wraps" and now feel more comfortable steppin' outside the box, and the younger dudes comin up just never had to do a tenure in "The Closet" that a lot of us "Gen X" had to sit our asses in.

    Yeah. It's like the next step after seeing guys become more open to wearing pink, tight clothes and skinnier jeans, and earrings in either ear rather than the whole "one side is okay but the other is gay" thing that no longer seems prevalent. A lot of guys are waiting for society's implicit permission or for role models to open the doors to less accepted forms of self expression.

  51. ControlledXaos | January 19th, 2016
    0

    It took me awhile to start to wear pink. I mean I remember when it was getting popular back in the mid 200X's and I didn't start wearing it to until maybe 2010?

    I have three pink workout shirts and I usually wear them when I'm feeling particularly beastly. I'm really fond of purple tho and have been since grade school. I have now made, at least in my mind, pink a power color for myself.

    However I never wear my pink shirts with green, light/sky blue, or Yellow shorts. Always black, gray, or white. Anything else is just taking it to far. Lolol

  52. alton
    alton | January 19th, 2016
    0

    Only article of pink clothing I own is a pink/grey/mauve pinstripe INC dress shirt and a pair pink dress socks. I'm not oppose to the color (or any other stereotypically effeminate color" I'm just funny about clothes period. I'm not a big shopper as it is, so it would have to really catch my eye for me to wanna buy.

  53. Tyroc
    Tyroc | January 19th, 2016
    0

    ControlledXaosIt took me awhile to start to wear pink

    I see a lot of people feel this way, which is funny because pink used to be for boys and blue for girls until around the dawn of the 20th century.

    I've always believed that it's a color and not an indicator of preference for a hot dog or a taco.

  54. ControlledXaos | January 19th, 2016
    0

    I just didn't like it. Lol but again I pair it with darker colors so there's that.

  55. Kouncelor
    Kouncelor | February 16th, 2016
    0

    So, reading all of these posts i damned near forgot what the original post was about. I actually love the fact that AXE appeaser to be redefining masculinity to Masculinity= just being a man…in whatever form it may take. We get way too caught up in the predefined historical and cultural models of masculinity. We.. all of us, need to reprogram ourselves that being a man.. a real man has nothing to do with masculinity or femininity, wearing pink or blue, wearing heels or Jordans, having a six pack or a swish. There is way too much self hating out there.

  56. Ockydub
    Ockydub | February 16th, 2016
    0

    KouncelorSo, reading all of these posts i damned near forgot what the original post was about. I actually love the fact that AXE appeaser to be redefining masculinity to Masculinity= just being a man…in whatever form it may take. We get way too caught up in the predefined historical and cultural models of masculinity. We.. all of us, need to reprogram ourselves that being a man.. a real man has nothing to do with masculinity or femininity, wearing pink or blue, wearing heels or Jordans, having a six pack or a swish. There is way too much self hating out there.

    This is funny to me because feminist don't have a problem with femininity but yet everyone has a problem with masculinity to the point where it needs to be redefined to make it look more feminine. Being whatever man you want to be is fine and is really no one else business; however don't redefine or rearrange something to fit a narrative simply so others can feel comfortable and included.

    Pro Masculine doesn't equal anti-fem. Just like pro-black doesn't equal anti-white. Masculinity just like my skin color shouldn't be offensive. If it is, that's not my problem but the problem of the ones viewing.

  57. Kouncelor
    Kouncelor | February 16th, 2016
    0

    OckydubThis is funny to me because feminist don't have a problem with femininity but yet everyone has a problem with masculinity to the point where it needs to be redefined to make it look more feminine. Being whatever man you want to be is fine and is really no one else business; however don't redefine or rearrange something to fit a narrative simple so others can feel comfortable and included.

    Pro Masculine doesn't equal anti-fem. Just like pro-black doesn't equal anti-white. Masculinity just like my skin color shouldn't be offensive. If it is, that's not my problem but the problem of the ones viewing.

    I don't the problem is with Masculinity itself, it's that the common definition and application is, in fact, exclusionary. Individuals in society are seen as offensive, quite vocally, if they do not fit the narrative, and ostracized..

  58. Ockydub
    Ockydub | February 16th, 2016
    0

    KouncelorI don't the problem is with Masculinity itself, it's that the common definition and application is, in fact, exclusionary. Individuals in society are seen as offensive, quite vocally, if they do not fit the narrative, and ostracized..

    The issue is what people label as toxic masculinity or hyper masculinity which both have elements of negativity. This is understandable. That shouldn't have anything to do with saying "I think women should be more like men, so like me start a crusade to redefine femininity to make it fit the box I want it in and to also make me more comfortable."

    No one isolates or discusses toxic femininity or hyper femininity, which by the way plenty of gay mean exude. Regardless of the similarities as a human species, men and women are not the same just as masculinity and femininity are not the same.

  59. Kouncelor
    Kouncelor | February 16th, 2016
    0

    OckydubThe issue is what people label as toxic masculinity or hyper masculinity which both have elements of negativity. This is understandable. That shouldn't have anything to do with saying "I think women should be more like men, so like me start a crusade to redefine femininity to make it fit the box I want it in and to also make me more comfortable."

    No one isolates or discusses toxic femininity or hyper femininity, which by the way plenty of gay mean exude. Regardless of the similarities as a human species, men and women are not the same just as masculinity and femininity are not the same.

    Are re really re-defining masculinity? I am sure that if we were to travel across the world and;or through time, the concept of masculinity has taken different forms. In the US, the ideas of masculinity tens to take the form of physical aesthetics and outward behavior where as in the past or in other cultures it has been more about who you are and what you do.. your role in life or society.. much more substantive. The same would apply for femininity.. or hyper-femininity for that matter.

    I do agree that gender and "traditional" gender behavior are truly two separate concepts, thus your idea of making one group fit in a box. Unfortunately, in many aspects of our society, individuals are forced in to a pre-defined box of masculinity.

  60. Ockydub
    Ockydub | February 16th, 2016
    0

    KouncelorAre re really re-defining masculinity? I am sure that if we were to travel across the world and;or through time, the concept of masculinity has taken different forms. In the US, the ideas of masculinity tens to take the form of physical aesthetics and outward behavior where as in the past or in other cultures it has been more about who you are and what you do.. your role in life or society.. much more substantive. The same would apply for femininity.. or hyper-femininity for that matter.

    I do agree that gender and "traditional" gender behavior are truly two separate concepts, thus your idea of making one group fit in a box. Unfortunately, in many aspects of our society, individuals are forced in to a pre-defined box of masculinity.

    ….
    The conversation is not about history and traveling across time. It's about a conversation and post in reaction to the AXE commercial in which black gay men wearing make-up, female clothes, female accessories and female high-heels, vogueing. This is undeniably and unmistakable effeminate. To say this is now masculine or to say masculinity needs to be redefined to fit this mold of effeminate gay maleness is madness….in addition to not acknowledging or celebrating the gay men being feminine.

    What's the saying "Live in your truth?" There is nothing wrong with living in your effeminate truth. If acceptance is desired and wanted, learn how to accept yourself first (not you personally) and accept others who are not effeminate.

    The fact that we have to have this type of conversation demonstrates how feminist gay group think and propaganda doesn't allow opinions or points of view other than theirs and how destructive wanting everything to be feminine is.

    Is femininity this fragile?

  61. Kouncelor
    Kouncelor | February 16th, 2016
    0

    I

    Ockydub….
    The conversation is not about history and traveling across time. It's about a conversation and post in reaction to the AXE commercial in which black gay men wearing make-up, female cloths, female accessories and female high-heels, vogueing. This is undeniably and unmistakable effeminate. To say this is now masculine or to say masculinity needs to be redefined to fit this mold of effeminate gay maleness is madness….in addition to not acknowledging or celebrating the gay men being feminine.

    What's the saying "Live in your truth?" There is nothing wrong with living in your effeminate truth. If acceptance is desired and wanted, learn how to accept yourself first (not you personally) and accept others who are not effeminate.

    The fact that we have to have this type of conversation demonstrates how feminist gay group think and propaganda doesn't allow opinions or points of view other than theirs and how destructive wanting everything to be feminine is.

    Is femininity this fragile?

    I hear where you are coming from, but I have to ask, what makes something feminine? What makes something masculine? This is where history and culture are relevant to this discussion because masculinity and femininity are defined constructs that are traditionally associated with particular genders. There are plenty of men wear dresses and heels who are not gay, or who do not have a "feminine" bone in their body. These terms are subjective and, i'm sure, have many definitions of varying degrees. I'm sure there are some concrete consistences despite the varying degrees, but in the end, none of it should really matter.

    So the goal may not be, so much, to re-define masculinity, but rather, to move away from those the term and just be the man that you are. Why? Because you can be and should be the only one who defines you. Freak the haters. THAT is what is powerful.

  62. Ockydub
    Ockydub | February 16th, 2016
    0

    Kouncelorwhat makes something feminine? What makes something masculine?

    KouncelorThere are plenty of men wear dresses and heels who are not gay, or who do not have a "feminine" bone in their body.

    Again..really? Imma wait right here for you to provide some examples to back up this point.

  63. Kouncelor
    Kouncelor | February 16th, 2016
    0

    and, this one really exudes effeminacy

    and the married one:

  64. Ockydub
    Ockydub | February 17th, 2016
    0

    KouncelorThere are plenty of men wear dresses and heels who are not gay, or who do not have a "feminine" bone in their body.

    So you decided to use something that is obviously comedy to prove your horrible point…smh. What's worse is that I think you're serious.

    I'm literally watching / reading you contradict yourself between Threads. You just stated in another thread:
    ****************
    "There was a guy i dated for a minute… nice guy and what I would call naturally feminine.. not queenie. Among other issues, what was problematic to me was the fact that when he drank, he loudly referred himself as a girl ("This Girl…." or "this Bish"). Sorry, no, not sorry. I am dating a man. not a girl or a man who refers to his man-parts as p*ssy or cl*t.

    I actually do not think it is discriminating. In my opinion (MY opinion), a lot of that behavior is LEARNED behavior.. that queenieness. it's one thing to be feminine, but the 'Guuuuurl' and "Chiiiile" stuff is just being a queen. Folks are NOT born acting like that."
    ****************
    But yet you're here questioning what is feminine and what is masculine? Why not start by using your own examples? We're done here.

  65. Kouncelor
    Kouncelor | February 17th, 2016
    0

    Actually, the pic and the videos are not comedy. Those are real people…leading real lives.. doing what makes them happy.. or at least trying to find their happiness. If you received it as comedy, that's on you.

  66. Ockydub
    Ockydub | February 17th, 2016
    0

    KouncelorActually, the pic and the videos are not comedy. Those are real people…leading real lives.. doing what makes them happy.. or at least trying to find their happiness. If you received it as comedy, that's on you.

    WAIT WAIT…the first vid…really dude? There is no context…just a bad show. Why is this an example?

    Second video…the dress wearing dude…did you listen to it? How is a man dressing up as a women who calls himself Melloney not feminine? I'm not questioning his sexual orientation, I'm saying he is feminine because he chooses to dress like a woman and call himself by a woman's name?

    If you think men wearing female clothes wanting to addressed by a female name or performing in gay/drag bar is masculine…we good.

  67. Cyrus-Brooks
    Cyrus-Brooks | February 17th, 2016
    0

    @Kouncelor I have to agree with @Ockydub on this one I've stated this before as well in my comments. Trying to "redefine masculinity" to include feminine behavior or clothing strikes me as both dishonest and ridiculous. If we're going to redefine masculinity to include any and everything then masculinity ceases to have meaning. That's why we have words in the first place to define things. This is one of the problems with contemporary western society. Masculinity is smeared as something "toxic" or bad. While the clear distinctions are blurred which leads to confusion. Younger people often times now don't know what's expected, required, or acceptable. This is having disastrous consequences for boys and young men and especially black boys and young men.

  68. ColumbusGuy
    ColumbusGuy | February 17th, 2016
    0

    KouncelorI don't the problem is with Masculinity itself, it's that the common definition and application is, in fact, exclusionary. Individuals in society are seen as offensive, quite vocally, if they do not fit the narrative, and ostracized..

    I think there are good things and not so good things that have been associated with both femininity and masculinity historically. Femininity has nurturing and caretaking-good, weakness-bad. Masculinity has strength-good, overly aggressiveness-bad. The problems come from people taking the worst of these and acting out on them (women who are bytchs, men who are bullies and physically abusive).

    The problem is people not minding their business with masculinity, and (without good reason) attacking those who do not fit the narrative. But at the same time, you cannot really 'redefine' masculinity. That makes me think of people who say we need to 'rewrite history. There is no such thing. It is what it is. What we can do, is correct the historical record to reflect what history really was. You can point out that men wore wigs at one time or wore dresses at one time, but those are 'trappings', really imo.

    I can see both sides here. Let's say Yusef-the-prolific-father-porn-star starts wearing dresses and heels. Is he then feminine? If you make fun of him and he beats you to within an inch or your life, is he still feminine? Are the 'trappings' of masculinity really what masculinity is, or is it what is inside, what a person thinks and feels about things, and about themselves?

    I am old school so I have a very hard time thinking that makeup, heels, dresses, and feminine pronouns on men are masculine. I will own up to that.

  69. alton
    alton | February 17th, 2016
    0
    Ockydub

    So you decided to use something that is obviously comedy to prove your horrible point…smh. What's worse is that I think you're serious.

    I'm literally watching / reading you contradict yourself between Threads. You just stated in another thread:
    ****************
    "There was a guy i dated for a minute… nice guy and what I would call naturally feminine.. not queenie. Among other issues, what was problematic to me was the fact that when he drank, he loudly referred himself as a girl ("This Girl…." or "this Bish"). Sorry, no, not sorry. I am dating a man. not a girl or a man who refers to his man-parts as p*ssy or cl*t.

    I actually do not think it is discriminating. In my opinion (MY opinion), a lot of that behavior is LEARNED behavior.. that queenieness. it's one thing to be feminine, but the 'Guuuuurl' and "Chiiiile" stuff is just being a queen. Folks are NOT born acting like that."
    ****************
    But yet you're here questioning what is feminine and what is masculine? Why not start by using your own examples? We're done here.
    [​IMG]

    LMFAO!!!!
    [​IMG]




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