A popular heterosexual social media personality that I follow, solicited Black homo/bisexual male volunteers to discuss gay dating apps. He wanted to know of experiences when interacting with white or Black men, first dates, any loves lost, racism, etc. I’ve been in a committed relationship for years, so obviously it’s been awhile since I dated. Being that I enjoy most of the commentary and observations on racism from this blogger, I decided this would be my area of focus with our conversation after I replied to his open invitation.
Over the last couple of years there have been an exhausting abundance of articles, essays and videos across media addressing preferences and racism via gay dating apps. In my opinion, most have the same tone and message, which is ethnic preferences equal racism or bigotry. Many of these writings are told or delivered from the perspective of the rejected or offended gay man. Others are from the viewpoint of observer, preaching to the preference driven bigots or racists on how they need to be more open, change their thinking and update profile messages that have offensive language. I also want to point out that I think many times the usage of the term racist(ism) is misused and bigot(ry) should be instead. Racist basically means one thinks a certain race is superior or inferior, while bigotry is treating another group or race with hatred or intolerance. Being a bigot doesn’t automatically mean one is racists. Institutionalized racism exists along with bigoted and negative perceptions or stereotypes towards people of color. I think it safe to say that gay men who use bigoted or racist language in their online profiles most likely harbor these same sentiments in their offline day-to-day lives.
Even though I have written before about the No Fats No Fems controversy and discussed the subject in podcasts, I’ve been delayed with discussing the dating app racism topic until now. I realized once I completed my Q&A with the blogger, I basically had written my thoughts and main talking points that could be reformatted into my own essay. The blogger shared with me something that I kind of already knew once I had given him my responses; my views greatly contrast with those from the other Black gay men who he had interviewed on this subject.
*FYI, I’m will be using the term “gay” even though I’m referencing homosexual and bisexual men.
The topic of racism via dating apps is only a real issue for two groups of gay men. One group is non-white gay men (men of color) who are exclusively looking to date only white gay men. The other group is white gay men who go out of their way to preach to other white gay men that rejecting non-white gay men for dating, sex, or relationship is racist. This is not an area of huge concern for gay men of color who exclusively or primarily are only seeking other gay men of color.
A member of Cypher Avenue conducted his own personal survey while using OKcupid. He created two identical profiles, with matching academic qualifications (Master degree), “nerdy” interests in addition to hobbies and activities. He then selected two pictures of very attractive shirtless chiseled men as the profile pictures. The only difference was that one was White, while the other was Black. He then chose the same 25 Black men; one message was sent to each from the White male profile and the other from the Black male profile. None of the Black men he messaged responded to the profile that featured the Black male as the profile picture but all of them responded to the message with the White male as the profile picture. After conversing with these Black men while using the White male profile, he stated that “most of them had a warped idea of the intellect of Black gay men and one even stated that he sets his filters so that he only sees white men.”
When I have read articles and seen videos featuring Black gay men giving their testimony on how they feel rejected by racist White or Asian gay men on dating apps; there is never mention of why they (these Black gay men) only seek non-Black gay men. While crying racism, somehow they don’t examine themselves and ask why they’re rejecting other Black gay men.
I’m all for calling out bigoted or racist language that exist in dating app profiles, such as stating, “No Darkies, No Rice (meaning Asians), No South of the Boarder crosser (Latinos/Mexicans), etc.” However; I’m not for policing this type language. If one is on a dating website or app, they’re searching for something from the men that are available. The men who write these types of remarks within their profiles are revealing an honest open door into their true selves. This is a gift in the form of a large warning sign helping the reader to avoid them if they don’t agree with these attitudes.
I’m almost 40 years old and have been online since 1997 in AOL chat-rooms via dial up. When I became more active online, reading comments to certain articles or news stories, there were plenty of racists or bigoted comments from other users. When I begin gaming online, I found out the gaming community is filled with young and old trolls spewing racist comments. Racism and bigotry takes place all over the world and all over the internet. Why would it not exist on dating apps and online dating sites?
Let’s pretend that a white gay man didn’t use any racist or bigoted language in his profile but simply stated his preference is only for white men; for some this is still considered problematic. A Black gay’s preference for seeking white, Asian or Latino is ok and not racist but a white gay seeking another white gay is racist…how so? White and Black gay men who produce these anti-racism dating app articles condemning white gay men (who have white only preferences), while wearing their badges of liberalism, progressiveness and equality are eerily silent when it comes to Black men who have a preference for and only date other Black men. Why are they not calling the “Black man seeking Black man” profile racist?
The double standard message being presented is that the only preference to have is an all-inclusive one, unless it’s “Black man seeking Black man”, then that’s ok. If there is any group that should be against telling another group who they should or shouldn’t sexually interact with, its gay men.
Let’s put this in a larger perspective. This is not housing discrimination. It’s not police brutality or discrimination within the work place. It’s not homophobic persecution or #BlackLivesMatter. It’s seeking sex or relationships using gay dating apps.
Not wanting to date or have sex with someone doesn’t inevitably mean the person rejecting the offer, feels they’re better than the person pursuing. If these white gay men need to broaden their dating preferences, maybe these “seeking white only” Black, Asian and Latino gay men need to do as well. If a white man doesn’t want to fuck you or doesn’t want you fucking him, it’s not automatic racism or bigotry. You’re not a victim, you’re simply not desired.
Many of these Black gay men who seek only white men will also say that they feel sexually objectified or that some white men see them as only something to experiment with sexually. Or the Asian gay men who only seek white men will profess that they feel they’re regulated to the submissive bottom geisha stereotype. I’m sure anybody who is open to interracial coupling, wouldn’t want to be used as some “sexual experimental jump off.” I should point out that many people of a particular ethnicity do have sexual curiosities of those belonging to other ethnicities. Sexual curiosity is a human feature that is not limited to race. The peculiar thing is, are they (gays of color seeking white men) being used for sex or are they allowing themselves to be used for sex because of their thirst for white men? I think a white man at some point during the “getting to know you phase” will say, “I’ve never been with a -fill in the blank ethnicity- man before.” This could be a possible indication that he is viewing the male of color, as a “sexual experimental jump off.”
In this sometimes overly sensitive politically correct society, there are elements within it pushing the narrative that it’s not acceptable for certain individuals to pursue who they want because their preferences are offensive and others will feel rejected or shamed. Yet these same progressive minds will still profess that “you should be able to love and marry who you want to.” This is the same mindset far right conservative use when they say they want the over-reaching Federal Government out of their private lives but are against a woman’s right to choose and want a federal ban on abortions.
The vast majority of the human beings on our planet are intra-racially coupled. Why would it or should it be any different for LGBT individuals? Even with some people who are interracially coupled, many times if you look at their dating history, they still may have been with more individuals within their race vs. outside of their race.
As a Black man I have encountered racism and bigotry countless times in my life. Racism has “rejective” components within it being that people in power can discriminate against, thus reject. I feel and understand the pain it causes. Within the context of dating, I will not feel diminished because some white man on a dating app doesn’t want me; which isn’t any different than a Black man turning down my advances.
I’ve dealt with rejection throughout my entire dating life as I’m sure most people have; the caveat is that I don’t think people know how to rejoice in their rejections. Rejections are blessings. This is something that I learned and grew into overtime. Dating can be frustrating AND rewarding. Looking back, after all the dating rejections, I was still able to find sex and companionship with people who didn’t reject me. This should be the focus, not the afterthought. I know my stance is on the outside of this popular topic but I’m not gonna cry any tears over these dating racism “victims.”
Plain truth. Well written and thought out. I have to admit that I fall into the "they racist (white or black) because of the blunt preferences listed in their profiles. Especially, being that I don't date or really want to date outside of my race. I have also made that abundantly clear on mine. Eye opener on all points.
WOW!!! Talk about the pot calling the kettle "black". I don't think it's ever been suggested that people of color who exclusively date outside their race doesn't involve SOME bias. But just like their Caucasian counterparts, having a "preference" is not automatically "racist". And I've yet to see a person of color online publically stating they will reject all Caucasians and using derogatory language to do so.
I think Black men seeking black men usually stick to the apps or online sites they are familiar with or should I say cater to them. So IDK if the hypothetical you posed would present itself in real world gay dating apps situations where black gay men are using the same type of language certain white gay men use for only want to interact with men of their own race.
" If a white man doesn’t want to f**k you or doesn’t want you f**king him, it’s not automatic racism or bigotry. You’re not a victim, you’re simply not desired."
I love this statement here. Many of the dudes who are offended by this tend to be ones that are only seeking attention from the group that overwhelmingly doesn't desire them. If they would open their options a little, sh!t would be a little more promising. It's not an all encompassing fix because of the simple fact, one may not be what the majority are seeking, {white and/or} muscular, model-esc, exotic looking, but it certainly gives one more "leg room" in the dating/ hook up game. I personally don't have a lot of luck in the dating/ hook up game, but I accept that I'm none of the above, at least in my own opinion (muscular, model-esc, exotic looking) but I'm at least willing to entertain any ethnicity because there are beautiful dudes in every category. So if one person rejects me, f#$k 'em, on to the next.
Let's take that statement you quoted as logically sound, but then match it up with the one I saw a lot which was "No Blacks." Racist or nah?
Oh, I was just thinking about the point
I was just thinking that should I be upset with guys who feel that way-when I do too? I was on Zoosk and Match for a minute. Trying to expand my choices. But I was deleting just about every white man suggestions they provided for me based on similar interests. Because the reality is for the most part-I don't desire them. Of course, their are beautiful white men that I have seen. So, that's not they are unattractive. It's just my preference. But, I hear what you're saying that if I am only sticking to the familiar-then the article didn't really apply to me.
Cosign I've said this a million times. Just because a white man does want to date of f**k you doesn't automatically make him a racist. Another point is even if they are racist why would you want to get in bed with them anyway? I find funny that people, name non-white gay people, and especially black gay men are somehow surprised that white gay men are racist. Just because they're gay doesn't automatically make them your "ally." Homosexual/bisexual white men are still white men. Thus they have the same belief that they are the "master race" just like heterosexual white men. So if that's what they think why would such people form an intimate or sexual relationship with you when they think your "inferior?" The alarm clock is ringing but many of us refuse to wake up.
"Another point is even if they are racist why would you want to get in bed with them anyway?"
Probably some sort of twisted self validation. Same as gay guys wanting to sleep with str8 dudes and women tryin to "turn" a gay guy str8.
Let's talk about racism in the form of objectification. I am one who prefers black men or other men of color, but am open to the possibility of meeting and dating a white guy. But that's only if they don't use the word "c*ck" or make any statements to the fact that they "like" or "only like" black guys or BBC. I don't like to be the object of someone's glory because I'm black and it troubles me that whenever I do get hit on by a white guy, it devolves in to a conversation about my c*ck or the excitement of being with a black guy.
I think it's pretty obvious that most white men even the ones who claim to be attracted to black men just see black men as a walking oversized penis and not a complete human being. Unfortunately there are black men who go along with such nonsense. The Mandingo fetish alone is enough to turn me off aside from the fact that I don't find white men sexually attractive.
My sentiments, exactly. I'm open to any and all ethnicities (why is CA saying this is misspelled?) however, I refuse to be someone's fetish. There's a kinda cute little white dude I see here at work givin' me the eye all the time (I say kinda cute but he's not my type at all. Too fem leaning, as if he belongs in a white "Gay Teen Coming of Age movie" and he looks like a little lesbian from certain angles) but I would never take it there, not only for the reasons I mentioned in parenthesis above, but because I can see in that "eye" that the attraction is more fetish/ fantasy leaning on his part and I'm nobody's "BBC Vending Machine", sorry.
:khart1::bronbad:
One time I was thinking…Hey maybe I should hookup with this thirsty ass white boy to get some practice out of it before I go scoop me a brown skin Adonis. Might help with sexual performance anxiety. :umad:
I'm a black man whose attractions is for other black men. So the question of why some white men don't date black men doesn't concern me. I figure that because I do not have attraction for white men that I understand how they might not have an attraction to me either. But again it's nothing that I will ever lose sleep over. However!!! I am confused over black men who clearly say they're interested in whites and hispanics but don't care to list black. And……. their own ethnicity listed is black. That leaves me scratching my head & there has been times that I have gotten a headache thinking about how that could happen. So you don't like your own?
I feel you. But I've visited a city where interracial relationships, straight and gay, are the norm. And the mixture is always white paired with a minority (black, Latino, etc.). So much so that it appeared that gay black men don't even consider each other. I could literally count the black gay couples I saw on one hand…and still have a few fingers left over.
yeah, I'm only attracted to black dudes. but I'm still not a dikk enough to put BLACKS ONLY on my profile or NO WHITES…I just block them like a good boy.
I'm not attracted to White guys. I date Latinos. I have a friend who is black and only dates guys that are white or pale. I made a note of his bf's using him because he's their fetish. He never listens & goes after them same ones and gets tossed to the side between 2-4 months….every time..
I see lots of cute looking white guys but it ends there. Sorry if I sound mean about it. I wonder why…When I see them sometimes I'm like he's kinda cute…& then that will be it. No further feelings…Hmmmm
….I've only ever dated one white guy and he literally made me feel uncomfortable in my own skin. And what sucked about it was that I genuinely don't think he knew what he was saying and doing were extremely problematic, highly offensive, and down-right dehumanising. He has stripped me of my race before (saying that I'm not really "Black-Black" (what the f*ck does that even mean?) because I'm not from the states), he has fetishised and objectified me (saying something about Black dudes' asses), and even participated in cultural appropriation (especially in his speech by replacing english words with other words in a different language because he thought they "sounded better.").
In regards to not being "Black-Black", I've even got that from my fellow Black men….saying sh*t like I'm not really Black because I'm African (as if African is a race) and that I'm "different" from other Black dudes they have talked to….And you know yeh, saying sh*t like that is not really cool….being stripped of your entire race in once sentence is something that is hurtful and painful….I wish people were more careful with what they say.
:mindblown:
I don't think it's necessarily an issue of individuals being racist themselves, but individuals living in a racist society that exhalts whiteness as the highest form of beauty. And then makes black men desirable only if they fit a Mandingo fetish. I do think there is some merit to black guys who exclusively date white men being the most vocal about this. I remember watching a video before of a gay black dude being interviewed on racism in the gay community. He talked about how racist it was for white gays to say "no blacks," and then he went on to say "I don't really date black men either." Negro, what?
Exactly…WTF:sucka:dafuq3:birdman:
It's like the counterpart to people like my classmate saying she wasn't black because she's Haitian despite walking, talking and looking like any other American black girl.
I've occasionally seen explicit declarations that other races shouldn't waste a person of color's time with a message, but simple, non-inflammatory statements like "looking for another brotha (maybe Latino)" seem more common. I've also seen lots of white guys take the friendlier, PC route of stating what they prefer rather than what they don't like, sometimes listing practically every group besides black or Asian.
Just as many white and asian men beg for the "BBC" daily, I've seen countless tumblr pages built by white men who love black dikk, countless white men lusting after black men on Pornhub/Xtube/etc on and on and on … I mean you'll find them proclaiming their love for black dikk constantly on craiglist, a4a, and at the bath houses. Black men are in fact the highest desirable because we're seen as hypermasculine and hypersexual … like come on. If anyone is least desirable it's white and asian men because are known for having smaller dicks, less suave, and being more feminine
But what if that black guy is a bottom?
Dominicans are famous or should I say infamous for saying "I'm not black I'm Dominican." When I was in school this one Dominican dude said that. I laughed in his face because he was dark as midnight and had hair like steel wool.
If this is racist, so are profiles that say "No Whites."
How often do you see those profiles though? I've see literally 3.
I think it's important to say first that this "racism" or bigotry is not the MOST serious, but it's also not entirely irrelevant. Desireability (or lack thereof) does impact a person's self esteem and mental well-being. Furthermore, we do live in societies in which certain people are considered undesirable, and even less than human. While this sometimes includes race, it's more harmful regarding gender (women, femme, trans and gender non conforming) disability, fat, disease, etc., sometimes to the point where people believe it's ok to harm, abuse, violate and murder people based on these identities. Dating and sex are actually very harmful spaces for many people. Perhaps one solution is greater self love, in part so that we stop internalizing rejection. This however will not stop the racism, bigotry and discrimination of the world and we can't pretend it does, especially from places of relative social privilege (male, thin, able-bodied, etc). While some people say we need more inclusive standards of desire, I think that maybe what we actually need is less social emphasis on attractiveness and romantic status as kinds of social capital and prioritize alternative and broader forms of love and commitment. Personally I don't check for white boys (diminutive intentional), but I do find POC who only like white people to be sad. Not that there aren't gre-…decent white people out there, a white man has to be extremely attractive, or extremely committed to anti-racism and anti-imperialism for me to really be interested.
Some black gay/bisexual men play to the "mandingo" stereotype. These clowns make it difficult for black gay men who don't play to stereotypes about black male sexual prowess. Why should white gay men deal with black gay men who have standards for how they want to be treated when some black guys apparently think that going "mandingo" on a white guy makes him a king (if only for a few minutes)? I realize the temptation is very strong for black gay men with intense sexual/emotional needs to go for the lowest common denominator of sexual gratification for its own sake but if you want to be in a committed relationship, exercising discipline and self control is crucial. The choice is yours. There are a lot of white gay men who will sex a black man in a heartbeat, but white gay men who want a black gay man for a partner/husband (although they exist) are relatively few. It is important for black gay men who know their worth and who are on the hunt for a partner/husband to know how to date. There are exceptions to everything but, generally speaking, you cannot sex your way into a committed relationship with a quality man of ANY race. If you want to be partnered/married, learn how to date if you don't already know.
Yea Ocky I totally agree with you on this one man. I have to catch myself sometimes on this. Being in a predominantly white area I often come across white guys who don't hide the fact that they aren't interested in black guys and in my head sometimes I automatically think this means they are racist. But just as I have my preferences they have their own preferences also so it doesn't automatically mean they are racist. I think a lot of guys get angered by the rejection and are quick to yell racism in their frustration maybe because it is easier to deal with the rejection that way. Granted, some of these dudes may be racist, but you can't make that conclusion just because they aren't interested in you due to the color of your skin.
As someone who has never found a white person attractive, especially not enough to want to date, I don't find myself concerned with their preferences.As long as they arent in my inbox trippin I could care less. Once it crosses that line we have issues. My father is a multiracial black man (Louisiana creole and Acadian) my mother is Eritrean and Italian so I was raised in a pretty racially diverse environment but I've also witnessed racist views about dating among whites, even those in my family.
@NickAuzenneNOLA Would you be open to dating white guys again in the future or will you just stick to black men? You'll do fine either way.
Mine is too….we homies
:troll:
It's kind of hard for me to not view these dudes on the apps with their preferences and f**ked up profiles as racist when the experiences that I've had with a few on/offline haven't been too great. I'm not talking about dating or rejection either, just talking to some about politics, race, news, etc. I simply just don't f**k with some of their views. No different from some straight white boys. I don't think I'd be friends with a white gay man either, the ONLY thing I'd probably have in common with is with some hipster dude, as some non-white men that are my type don't share the same taste as me.
So yeah there may be a double standard there but I'm not really checking for them to be pressed about their preferences or "preferences". Like I said before, and I wasn't joking either, I'd have sex with one. It's not like I find their entire race to be disgusting looking like they probably do of mine. Maybe if I came across some decent white gay men they could probably change my mind and we could be friends/date. I ain't opposed to it, I just don't trust them after some racist experiences that weren't even on the dating apps.
I guess I'm in my black twitter stage right now. f**k em :yeshrug:
Quick question, what is everyone's dating experiences with dating men of Latino descent? Not just Afro-Latino but the entire spectrum. I don't wanna sit there and think I have a quality guy who likes me when his preferences are similiar to the Asian gays.
I could care less about white men and their preferences. The white gaze doesn't factor in the way that I view the world. I am attracted to African American men and other black diaspora men ( afro cubans, africans from the continent, afro Caribbean, afro brazilian etc). In a eurocentric society, the values and norms of white people are upholded. I don't subscribe to those norms and values. In fact, I find those values to be twisted in many ways. I embrace blackness in all its beauty and diversity.
Never said it wasn't.
Lol…I say NO WHITES in my profile. I dont care whether its construed as racist…nor do I care or complain if white men specify no blacks in their profiles. They have nothing that I want anyway. I will leave those concerns with the snow queens and black people with low self esteem. BTW racism is not the same as prejudice. Racism is systemic oppresion which requires an asymetrical power relationship. The power of the dominant group imposes its norms and values on a relatively powerless group. Blacks do not have the power to impose their norms and values on white society. So, blacks cannot be racist…prejudiced but not racist. I could care less about white people …the looks, norms or values. I do not fond white men attractive…nor do I crave for their validation ( like sone of these pathetic negroes).. I find white society as pathologically hateful and spiritually dead. If that is prejudiced..so be it. I cant ..nor do I want to impose more norms..on white people. I jusr dont want to be bothered with them or the sick society. BTW Martin Luther King expounded upon the sickness of white society after his Chicago campaign ( shortly before he died). The past history and cutrent circumstances in the USA makes me desire to not be bothered with them at all…too much EXTRA baggage beyond the baggage that we all bring to the table.
Its kind of sad to read these posts. These are grown ass black men losing their minds because they did not get a white man's validation. Pathetic, weak negroes. These negroes are ideological descendents of those losers who snitched on Nat Turner and Denmark Vesey because they were so happy on the plantation and wanted massa good grace. With all the disasters befalling black people right now…growing income inequality,; police murders of blacks; despair and dysfunction in poor black communities due to economic and social isolation etc…these negroes are worried about whether a white man wants to sleep with them. SMH.
Eh, la bas mo che kouzen!
A few observations from skimming through this thread:
1. Black people can be prejudice too.
2. Even black men who outright say they aren't into white men feel slighted by white men. The dating equivalent of, "you can't fire me, I quit."
3. Just because the dudes you date are black, that doesn't mean they aren't fetishizing you just as much as white men. I hear just as many brothas regurgitate the "black (and Jamaican) men have bigger dicks" stereotype. Also, can't tell you how many Bottoms I've seen fetishize fitted caps, beards and tattoos on "masculine appearing" men. shyt, I would argue that most members of this site subconsciously fetishize masculine black men.
Lol…I dont feel slighted by white men at all. I simply dont care about them. I dont need or want their validation. Not everyone is interested in them like that. Everyone is not grasping to be accepted by white men..only pathetic negroes with low self esteem need that validation and acceptance. In regards to being prejudiced against Whites….I stand accused. Whiteness is a social construct (as race, in general , is). It is an amalgamation of different europeans. Those europeans do not ethnically view themselves as being one people in Europe. For example, the anglo saxons see themselves as different from celtic people. It is a social construct that was created to enforce domination and genocide.. And has a real social import. With the bloody and genocidal nature of Anerican history ..and the current situation of Indigenous and black people..I feel ok with not particularly feeling warm and fuzzy about those who created and maintain those conditions. If that is conceived as prejudice..so be it. White racial chauvanism is the material basis for this so called prejudice amongst blacks and other people of color
On this charge, I stand guilty.View attachment 1422
I just joined (stumbled across this site a long time ago and have lurked) to say that some of these comments are why white guys remain as lurkers only. Some times it just seems like there is just hatred for whites and we are all lumped in together based on our lowest common denominator. Basically seeing white 'society'(whatever that really means) labeled 'sick' and pathological, etc and realizing of course, that 'white society' really means 'white people' is just too off putting in the sense that the place is just not inviting for any whites and that too many members simply do not want white people here or would be uncomfortable with their presence and commentary.
Yes I realize that you all must have gone through this kind of thing in the reverse form many, many times. But would you be apart of a website that involved it? I mean I have seen the word 'cac' used on here. I would never, and in fact, I can't remember ever belonging to any forum or messageboard(and I have been on a lot and am currently on several involving all kinds of things form urban development to weather to entertainment) that would even allow any expressed racism or the use of derogatory racial terms. That would get a warning, followed by a suspension or ban (or sometimes just an outright ban).
And just for some info yes, I did date several black and hispanic men (and I mean date as in get to know one another, go out to eat, go to movies, have dinner with friends, etc. etc..you know..dating!) mostly in the eighties before I met my partner. My partner died in 2001 and I have been(and will remain) single.
It just really saddens me and makes my heart hurt to see the what seems to be such a division among gay people. I don't know what happened when it comes to social justice issues and white gays, maybe the Aids crisis diverted things, but we are all not like what you see on apps or racist websites. In some ways it seems worse than it was 30 years ago.
Lumped together by lowest common denominator?…that sounds like what white people do to people of color everyday. This a a typical reaction..condemning the victim of racialized injustice and terror for being angry about that oppression. This guy must not read the racist trolling that goes on throughout the internet. Or the racist and or insensitive comments by white gay men. Or the comments of whites supporting the extrajudicial murder of black people by police and vigilantes. Under those conditions, it shouldnt surprise white people that some blacks dont want to be bothered with them. I supposed to feel warm and fuzzy about white people when a black teenage boy cant go to the store to buy skittles and ice tea without being preyed upon by a sick racist. This is why I couldnt date a white person…even IF I was attracted to white men. The simply see the world through skewed eurocentric glasses. They seem completely oblivious about racist oppression in American society…and when that oppression is pointef out, it is met by riducule, minimizing and a defensive attitude. White people…in the main…love their darkies to be happy and accomodating to their sensibilities.
Lumped together by lowest common denominator?…that sounds like what white people do to people of color everyday. This a a typical reaction..condemning the victim of racialized injustice and terror for being angry about that oppression. This guy must not read the racist trolling that goes on throughout the internet. Or the racist and or insensitive comments by white gay men. Or the comments of whites supporting the extrajudicial murder of black people by police and vigilantes. Under those conditions, it shouldnt surprise white people that some blacks dont want to be bothered with them. I supposed to feel warm and fuzzy about white people when a black teenage boy cant go to the store to buy skittles and ice tea without being preyed upon by a sick racist. This is why I couldnt date a white person…even IF I was attracted to white men. The simply see the world through skewed eurocentric glasses. They seem completely oblivious about racist oppression in American society…and when that oppression is pointef out, it is met by riducule, minimizing and a defensive attitude. White people…in the main…love their darkies to be happy and accomodating to their sensibilities.
:ufdup::babylawd:
Thanks for your feedback. I think a lot of non-people of color don’t comment or even visit this site because it doesn’t appeal to them, their lifestyle or points of view. As one white gay man stated on a message board about our site, “why do they have so many images of black men on their website?” He made this comment because he was so accustomed to seeing mostly if not all white men on the gay websites he visits. We’re not going to morph this site to appeal to a more white gay audience, when the overwhelming majority of mainstream gay websites already accommodate a majority white gay audience.
I just did a search for the term “cac” and the only time it appears here is when you just used it. I have never seen nor heard of the term “cac”. This is new to me and don’t know what it means or stands for. Nor have I seen where someone of color stated “I HATE white gay men or white people” on this site. We don’t and have never tolerated this type of behavior and have deleted comments or banned individuals who have in our 5 yr history.
The men here are speaking from their experience and stating their preferences. Speaking for myself and obviously having written the essay; I don’t have a problem with black or white men stating their preferences or wants when it comes to sex and dating. I don’t see them as racist, which in my opinion is an overused and misused term.
If men of color want to come to this site and vent about their negative experiences being on the receiving end of white racism, bigotry and prejudice, I’m not going to prevent that. As you stated “basically seeing white 'society'(whatever that really means) labeled 'sick' and pathological, etc.”…Yes; absolutely many people of color have this view based on history and experiences in their day-to-day lives, that many in white society have chosen to ignore, don't speak out against it or act like it never exists. I haven't read all the comments here, if you saw these sentiments, did you reply to the person or did you think or ask yourself why they felt that way? FYI…some views concerning white supremacy and racism have categorized them as "sickness" or mental illness/disease, which is something people of color have been stating for years (not saying I agree with this by the way). Simply Google "racism is a mental illness."
Gay men of color having a popular centric space like Cypher Avenue to freely discuss white gay racism and race, while reading commentary on the subject matter written by masculine leaning gay men of color, is unfortunately something that is almost impossible to find.
It’s really hard to even address when these mainstream sites don’t even broach the subject matter or topics of race in the Gay community because it’s not something that is impactful to their audiences. Many times when the subject matter is broached on mainstream gay websites, it’s out of touch with trolling or ignorant commentary from many white people in the comments sections.
If a white or black person chooses to visit this site and not challenge or spark discussion if they feel they’re viewing generalizing statements about white people, that’s not something I have control over. Just as you have spoken, all who visit have a chance to speak their minds.
I speak for no one on this site but myself and a lot of peoples of varying colors when I say welcome to our world. I'm sorry that you feel folks have made you feel uncomfortable on this site and I don't mean to minimize your feelings but please take a moment to magnify that by a billion 24/7 365 for generations in everyday life in EVERY facet of life and maybe you'll see why some people have the perception of what you've described.
I myself deal with negative or lessened perceptions and the feeling that my presence makes people uncomfortable EVERY single time I walk into my job or a store or drive or travel or go to pay with my debit card and am asked for ID or try to hail a cab (Praise technology for LYFT) or pass a fellow brother in blue or go to a restaurant or….
This is why I commented: " I have a white friend who said he was too afraid to comment, since this is, in his words an more "urban online community" and he feels some type of way, not negative but maybe he would not be accepted. I said he was being irrational." This is from the thread about 'have you told people about the site' Yes I realize that this site is focused on masculine gay black men, and also is not only a place for discussion, but a safe space for said gay masculine black men to vent. I realize that.
But I also think that it is not unreasonable for white guys to feel hesitant about the site-that is all I was saying and I probably should have mentioned the quote. This was also just related to some of the comments on this article, not on the article or the merits of the article. You stated "If men of color want to come to this site and vent about their negative experiences being on the receiving end of white racism, bigotry and prejudice, I’m not going to prevent that." which is fine, but with that I was just trying to state that the venting may make white guys hesitant to post. i disagree with some of the comments (or a few select viewpoints in a few comments), but it is hard to challenge them being white in a black space. I guess maybe I should have simply manned up and signed up and directly questioned the few comments I found disturbing and let the chips fall where they may.
I swear I did see that word 'cac' or 'cacs' somewhere-the search function is not letting me search for the word itself. Now I will probably spend hours searching for the damn thing myself! lol. And it is just short for caucasian and is not exactly the worst thing to say regarding whites. Anything said about whites, as you must know, does not have 400 years of slavery, oppression, and discrimination to back it up. It does not have the same weight or impact. And I never stated that anyone directly said they hated whites. C'mon now, what I said was misrepresented with that-you used quotation marks as if that was some kind of quote-and it was not.
I guess I will just keep reading, listening and posting, and see what happens. There is a lot here that does pertain to any gay man who is masculine(well, masculine for a white guy..lol) and who does not identify with the 'gay elite' that runs the gay narrative and who has non-traditional interests ( I hate fashion, reality TV, the drama and bullshyt, 'shade' etc. and have mainly hung with masculine or in-between guys). When I stumbled across this site I actually looked for something similar, any messageboard or forum where there was actually a grown up dialog between black and white gay men, and I agree with this statement: "It’s really hard to even address when these mainstream sites don’t even broach the subject matter or topics of race in the Gay community because it’s not something that is impactful to their audiences." There is no dialog regarding race in the gay community. Which sucks. I can't even find a site for gay masculine white men that in any way really compares with this excellent site.
I guess what I was trying to convey that, 'Gay men of color having a popular centric space like Cypher Avenue to freely discuss white gay racism and race, while reading commentary on the subject matter written by masculine leaning gay men of color,…" is great, but I hope you can see how white guys might feel a bit hesitant because of this, without being 'irrational'. Maybe this is just not the space for an occasional dialog on race that actually involves whites commenting?
Maybe whites you disagree with something may not want to be perceived as racist?
Maybe we as whites just need to grow thicker skins?
Maybe I should start a thread about what members think about white gay guys on this site and get some feedback on what the actual members think about this. (Can I even start a thread being this new)? I mean there have been more than one thread about race in some form or another already, right?
Do you guys think that I am simply in the wrong space being at Cypher Avenue?
*sorry this is so damn long and convoluted.
"Lumped together by lowest common denominator?…that sounds like what white people do to people of color everyday. This a a typical reaction..condemning the victim of racialized injustice and terror for being angry about that oppression. This guy must not read the racist trolling that goes on throughout the internet. Or the racist and or insensitive comments by white gay men. Or the comments of whites supporting the extrajudicial murder of black people by police and vigilantes. Under those conditions, it shouldnt surprise white people that some blacks dont want to be bothered with them. I supposed to feel warm and fuzzy about white people when a black teenage boy cant go to the store to buy skittles and ice tea without being preyed upon by a sick racist. This is why I couldnt date a white person…even IF I was attracted to white men. The simply see the world through skewed eurocentric glasses. They seem completely oblivious about racist oppression in American society…and when that oppression is pointef out, it is met by riducule, minimizing and a defensive attitude. White people…in the main…love their darkies to be happy and accomodating to their sensibilities."
This is NOTHING at all like anything I said and sorry, it comes across to me as prejudiced ranting from someone who apparently also sees the world through 'skewed glasses'. You might want to consider that all white people are not monsters and not all white gay men make insensitive racial comments on the internet. I am not oblivious to racial oppression or white privelege, I did not ridicule anyone, and I did not minimize anything.
One can be angry about racialized injustice and oppression without condemning an entire race of people.
I can see why some white gay men may feel shy about joining or commenting on the site. While we say the site is by and directed towards gay/bi men of color, we (the creators of the site) try not ostracize white gay/bi men who may like the "style" of the site, articles and conversations here. White gay men are into "urban" culture and media too.
While we all may disagree on the racial politics within the community, we (the creators of the site) do try to curb and discourage people from using derogatory terms such as "snow queen", etc. So I agree with @ockydub about the term "cac" not being used here on the site. If it was, it slipped through the cracks. I'm familiar with the term and know that it is used excessively on many other heterosexual black message boards. So I'd recognize it if I saw it, but again, could have slipped through the cracks.
Either way, I def think the tone here from men of color regarding race is def something that has concerned me for some time. But the men are speaking from their personal experiences dealing with white gay men in the "community." I can't control that most of their experiences have been negative. I wish that was not the case…or better yet, I wish that men who have had positive experiences would speak up more often.
Thanks again for the feedback. Start as many threads and leave as many comments as you want. This space and it's features are at your disposal. Keep in mind (as I'm sure you've seen), thread postings don't have to be race or even homosexual related. Please share this dialog with your friend and tell him he is welcome. Different perspectives and experiences always help but if the topic is race or racism, I would be prepared for possible strong reactions.
*I think I finally managed to quote someone correctly!
Actually The 'white friend' was mentioned by a black member in the thread about site members mentioning the site to friends or coworkers. That was the whole reason for my comment. That member stated that his white friend was hesitant to join because he felt 'some kind of way' and thought it was just an 'urban' site.
I was just really responding in this thread to that post in that other thread. Again I should have made it clear from the beginning post that I was responding to that issue mentioned in that post in that other thread. I was just using some examples from this thread to respond to that post in that other thread. My bad for that. To be honest I personally don't know of anyone who might be interested in this site, unfortunately. I have always liked different viewpoints, different ideas-I find that stuff stimulating. Most of my friends have been very different than me in some way, and my partner was not like me at all. I never understood why gay white guys would seem to want basically a clone of themselves…you know the type-dressing alike, looking alike, looking like damn incestuous twins!
What is the fun in that? What do you learn from that..how do you grow as a person from that?
Anyway I will try to be more careful about how I word things, and have a thicker skin(and defend myself if I feel the need to do so).
This is NOTHING at all like anything I said and sorry, it comes across to me as prejudiced ranting from someone who apparently also sees the world through 'skewed glasses'. You might want to consider that all white people are not monsters and not all white gay men make insensitive racial comments on the internet. I am not oblivious to racial oppression or white privilege, I did not ridicule anyone, and I did not minimize anything.
One can be angry about racialized injustice and oppression without condemning an entire race of people.
*How many times is this post gonna pop up? lol. I will just respond to it the same every time.
Yes, we all see the world through skewed glasses..don't we? The difference is that in America…the skewed, sick, distorted visions of white people are taken as the norm and valid. If a person of color expresses anger ..particularly…the ancestors of lynchers and Indian killers get upset about the anger…not the source of the anger.A white man can shoot up churches and abortion clinics..but they are not terrorist. White people and occupy federal land and threaten to kill law engorcement…yet they are not considered terrorist or threats. Let those actions have been carried out by Muslims of color…and I can only imagine the response. European Jews can be angry about the holocaust and say never again. European jews are still white after all. Their pain was acknowledged. Germany paid reparations to ISRAEL for over 40 years. Some European Jews refused to visit Germany for years. Yet. that indigenous people and black people are not supposed to feel a certain type of way about a people who sent typhoid infected blankets to Indian areas…as a gift. A group of people who lynched and burnt black people alive…then went to enjoy their church services. The outrages continue…Trayvon Martin, Freddie Grey etc. Where is your outrage about those incidents? Are you protesting those outrages…or are you just trolling BLACK oriented sites and policing their opinions. ( to use FOUCAULT TERM). Do you exoress such outrage at white trollers who post venomous, racist posts about people of color…that has been much commented on throughout the internet? Read a few of those comments that are posted about peope of color..and you can see why I see a sickness running through white america. Do you protest as vigorously against discriminattory carding at gay clubs? BTW…Martin Luther king after the Chicago campaign stated that he didn't realize how sick white America is Your seem oblivious to the source and the reason for the anger of some people of color.
I am not oblivious to the source and reason for why people of color are angry. And yes, reparations were paid by Germany, and I believe that some form of reparations should be paid for descendants of slaves. Whether cash payments, deductions, tax breaks, subsidies, etc. it should be done because everything that has been done is not enough.
I see it this way. It is like someone was assaulted and hurt, and then afterwards the assaulter paid (at least partly)for the hospital bill, lost wages, helped that person out, etc. -they kind of partly made up for what was done like what would be done in a civil case. But the assaulter never paid for the criminal penalty, a payment for doing the actual act. This is how I kind of see it. Apologies have been made for the act, but it needs to be more than that as a penalty for the act of enslaving other human beings or we as a nation will never get over the existence of slavery, not to mention improvement of race relations.
I DO express outrage at internet racist trollers. I also do so in my real life, and it has cost me at work and in other places. There is a price to pay for speaking out, as you eventually become 'that guy' who always speaks up and some people have a problem with that and you become a pariah to some people. I have filed complaints about both racism and homophobia at different workplaces(including my latest one) when the black woman in question was afraid to file it herself. It went nowhere (to our outrage and disgust) and again added to my reputation as a 'trouble maker'. I am used to not exactly being the most popular person – I have always been the 'black sheep'(no pun intended) and I have no problem with being unpopular with certain people or groups because I am used to it.
The idiots in Oregon are basically domestic terrorists, have committed criminal acts, and should be dealt with accordingly. I believe the US gov't is afraid of another Waco, and a resultant OKC bombing, which outside of 9-11, was the worst terrorist attack in the US-done by white militants/militiamen like those in Oregon.
Yes there is a sickness in America, but you simply do not seem capable of distinguishing between the sickness and those who revel in it, and those who oppose it. To you, all white people are guilty and evil if not from their own beliefs and actions, then from the actions of long dead 'ancestors' (mine did not even get here until the 1840's, never set foot in an slave state, and three male relatives with my extremely rare last name(I am the only person in the United States with my exact first and last name)fought in the Civil War for the Union. I only mention this because many white people do not even trace their ancestry that far back in the nation-many having ancestors that did not arrive until the 20th century. just sayin')
In your eyes, we are all the same, a monolithic block of racists and white devils who are evil and are all the descendants of the worst monsters of this nation's history and there is no redemption for us no matter what we do. I feel sorry for you for your apparently all encompassing hatred for an entire race of people.
Look, there is no reason to have a further discussion with you. Post whatever hateful thing you want and vent to your heart's content. I will not be responding to you again, and please, if you decide to post, do not quote me(besides this post, if you choose) in the future. And no I am not trying to 'police you'.
And if most, or even a significant(meaning more than just you)number of posters or members on here do not feel comfortable with my presence here, then please, let them message Nick or Ocky and let them know, and I want them to then let me know. I do not have to be here and if people(more than you) do not want me here, I want to know, so I can make my exit.
I realize that among other things that this is a safe space for gay black masculine men to vent about things including racism and if my presence is a hindrance to that, I don't want to be here. This is another reason I will not be responding to you again.
This exchange illustrates the reason why i could not date white men…even if I were attracted to them ( which fortunately, I am not. I unapologetically love my black brothas ONLY). Most whites..and I never said all whites. .just don't get it. I never said all white individuals. I even said that race is a socially constructed category. I stand by my cobdemnation
My fault…my overall indictment of white society. Whiteness was constructed as a category of domination in a racialized hierarchy. This is not particularly controversial. The 1968 Kerner report condemned white society as being deeply implicated in the precarious position of blacks in American society. This commission was composed of mostly white academics and politicians…hardly angry black radicals ( to use that tired trope). Furthermore, you have academicd luke Tim Wise ( who is white) who condemns white society in no less harsh terms than I do. Unfortunately, most entitled white men respond to any hint of anger or criticism from black people or other people of color by bashing the victim. His outrage is misplaced. With all the hate speech on the internet directed towards blacks; with the rise of neo fascist politicians like Donald Trump and the tea party; with the police murders of black people ( including 12 year old black boys) and some white people justifying those murders….I am wondering why this man doesnt direct his anger towards the perpetrators of these acts. I have never seen anything on this site ( or mostly all black sites) that would constitute hate speech. I have seen anger..sometimes harsh..directed at white racism and the experiences that some of us as people of color face while living in a majority white society. You have whole web sites advocating white supremacy and even genocide against people of color. Go to any comment section following a story involving black folk. And you will truly see hate speech of the most sickening kind. Instead of directing his energy at white racism, he wants to police black opinions and basically say that we should not be angry..and tell us how to express that anger. We don't have to go back to 1840s to see examples of white racial chauvinism. The murders of Trayvon Martin and many others by police …and many white peoples support of those murders…are happening NOW. Like I said many times before…I cannot even inagine dating a white man. They just don't get it ( with few exceptions). What I said about white society is no different than had been said by the Kerner report, Tim Wise and many others. Its a black thing…most of them don't understand ( as the saying goes). To sum it up and bring it back to the topic of internet dating: a white man saying no blacks in his profile doesn't matter in the least to me. I don't find white men attractive physically…so I am not checking for them anyway. They also bring to much racialized baggage to the table. I LOVE BLACK MEN ( African American, African And Diaspora black men)…thats the only ones that I am checking for.
Yes! I just remembered the ignore button!:gladbron:
This is my last comment on this matter…the behavior of the white troll illustrates everything that I said about entitled white men who get upset about black anger…but doesnt seem to get as upset…if upset at all…about the source of that anger. Hit the ignore button. Place your head in the sand while black suffering increases. All too tupical…and people wonder why I have no intetedt in white nen…beyond the fact that I dont find them physically attractive. As a whole..white men just donr get it.. So I proudly say BLACK ONLY in my profiles.
No one group of people share a collective characteristic, despite how we tend to generalize. I can say Caribbean Latinos tend to be more open to dating black men, but there are some that wouldn't even stick a black dildo in their a$$. Same for Central/ South American Latinos, many wouldn't even entertain the idea of dating a black man, but others seek them out, some to fulfill some sexual fantasy, others because they genuinely are attracted to black dudes.
So that being said, you can pretty much answer your own question through observing the dude you're with.
1. How is yous' interaction with one another?
2. Do yous go out in public a lot, e.g. dinner, movies, bars, etc?
3. Do you know or have at least met on more than one occasion, any or all of his friends?
4. If so, how are his friends toward you? (birds of a feather…)
5. When you guys meet up, is sex usually at the forefront, or do you most times just chill and/or go out.
I would argue, especially by your definition of racism, which is some kind of inferior or superior complex between the races, is in fact, what is happening, at least, on a physicality level. The general feeling I receive is that white men feel superior in beauty and physical stature, while some other races feel inferior, especially because we all subscribe to an ideological standard of beauty and maybe even a hierarchy or racial beauty.
I also at times feel inferior, I can’t stand it when a six foot beefy muscular white male calls me buddy and asks me for favors. I feel like a dirty ethnic person sometimes.
It is so irritating when people confuse preference with racism. Saying you only like guys that are 6ft or taller, or you only like muscle guys, or you only like thin guys are preferences. It has nothing to do with race. These preferences mention above includes all races. So whether you are black, white, hispanic and etc. You can be tall, muscle or thin. So you see the difference? When you exclusively say your not into another race, yes it is a form of racism. Go back and read the definition of racism. It’s doesn’t just mention superiority, it also mentions discrimination. And whether you are black or white, if you have no blacks, whites, hispanics, you a practicing a form or racism. This is why we have so much racism in the world today. Part of the reason is because people try to dismiss there racist acts as preferences. Preferences don’t involve race. It is a reason we call it racism, because it has to do with exclusion of someone race. This is America, you are free to date and screw whomever you want. But call it what it is.
And to the guys who only want white guys but get mad when they don’t want you. If you don’t want your own race, why should a different race want you? Think about it. Hell you don’t even want your own race and a difference race suppose too want you. Trying being attracted to your own race and maybe more difference races will gravitate towards you. It’s something said when someone is a attracted to there own race. It shows you value your race. And if you don’t value your own race, why should another race value you?