Brehs, we present to you a new episode of the CYPHER AVENUE PODCAST where you’ll hear us give updates, engage in heated topic debates, interviewing interesting homosexual men of color and us verbally adding on to the articles posted on the website.
The episodes will be available in three ways: You can listen to them on the site, watch on YouTube or download a MP3 version to your computer for listening on you commute to work or while you’re at the gym!
In this podcast, Cypher Avenue founders Ocky Williams & Nick Delmacy discuss the end of Alpha-Male TV shows, Black Gay Man’s rabid obsession with Shonda Rhimes’ Scandal and discussing the outrageously discriminatory (yet intriguing) idea of having a Cypher Avenue Meet-Up for Masculine Gay Men only.
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Well, let the twitter attacks begin. LOL. Honestly, I can tell you guys are torn about this, or at the very least, torn about how to do it “Discreetly” without offending anyone. The more I think about a meet up like this though under the parameters you mentioned in the podcast, i.e. wristbands for the best of the bunch to mingle afterwards, I do sorta become uneasy a lil bit. I’m not a thug at all but I can imagine @Ocky and @Nick giving me the side eye anyways. LOL. I think you guys have done a great job of sticking to your very unique brand and, thus far, it has been a masculine vision with a welcoming presence for different opinions and backgrounds. I can imagine some of the more feminine members feeling that this would be a little bit more personal than one of you countering a viewpoint on this website. These are people who feel they have a connection and history to you guys despite obvious differences but to be excluded in a more blatant way socially…….. I don’t know. I need to think about this one a little bit.
It was only 75% as offensive as I expected it to be.
Some listeners will definitely be offended by what they heard on this podcast. I told @Nick I could see that being the case before it even dropped. But Hannibal can you tell me why you’re offended. Is it because you think it’s just blatant discrimination or do you feel that you are one of the members that they would, honestly, not like to attend this potential gathering? Just curious.
I’m not offended. I don’t care. I’m perfectly happy being my nerdy sexually ambiguous inbetween self. I was saying I expected them to really say and do things that would be offensive to those who are not “masculine” and it was only about 75% as offensive as I expected. I would comment on some general points but the thing was over an hour so I lost tracj of my thoughts.
I think the idea we came up with at the end of the podcast will be the way we do it. We’ll set up a small invite-only meet-up in a private location. That way no one will feel offended by getting turned away. Think about it like a fraternity, they occasionally have public picnics or parties but they also have private meet-ups, dinners, etc where only frat members are allowed.
Listen, gay men go to sex parties! SEX PARTIES! Parties where they go to have sex w strangers! In front of strangers…
So…if I cant judge any1 who partakes in that scene, how in the hell can anyone judge masculine men for wanting to meet up exclusively? Fuk that!
Im still listening, so I haven’t heard what the plan is/will be, but I had to say that while it was fresh!
I’m down for this invite only meet up idea, real talk… Aint shit wrong with wanting to be in like company… hell it’s good for the psyche… keeps muh fuckas from thinking they crazy and shit… Keep me in the know! I can bring margaritttaaaaassss!!!! HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAH
@rolandgarros28
I see what ur trying to get at, but I dont think anything is wrong w a masculine meetup. As, @ocky (I think) said, for a lot of masc gay men, the problem isnt a lack of interest in socializing, it’s the lack of a social atmosphere where we feel like we fit in.
As for offending ppl…who hasnt been left out of sumthin? We’re big boys, we should be able to keep it moving.
And who knows, they might have other meetups for all CA members, but it’s still ok to have something, for once, where actual masculine men who want to not stick out like a sore thumb in a room of gay men, and connect with other masc men, can do that.
SIDENOTE: Masculinity and ‘thuggery’ have nuthin to do with each other. Jus sayin…
I personally don’t care if any one’s feelings are hurt. I don’t know anyone on the site personally so I’m never personally offended by anything I read here. Is there anything wrong with masculine men wanting to only socialize with other masculine men? I would say yes but your point about everyone being rejected at some point is also true. Doesn’t make it right but it makes it reality.
I was speaking just from the vantage point of the image or brand of Cypher Avenue. I sensed more concern emanating more from Nick than Ocky about protecting the brand so to speak. I’m not sure what that means because the site is directed toward masculine men. The idea about an invite only dinner I think would definitely be a better idea than some of the others. I was trying to point out that being blatantly discriminatory towards any group may not be the way to go. If you build the atmosphere, the people you want will come. Have hip hop thumping, talk of muscle cars etc and certain guys will not want to come. I would hope they would want to meet all of their supporters one day and show their appreciation. Maybe they will or maybe they want. Either way, if you don’t receive an invite, I don’t think anyone should let it turn you into an alcoholic. Find a group that wants you and be happy.
I used to always want to debate what can be perceived as the anti-fem environment on the site. Then I realized it is their brand. It’s a site for masculine gay men. So I just got in my line and now really only talk about the nerd stuff. Unless there’s an intellectual debate I can get into on other topics.
I’m glad you got that this is THEIR site. It was created because they felt there was a need, and they were correct, hence the surge in popularity as @Nick rightfully points out over and over and over. LOL. I wouldn’t say they were anti fem though. Sure, feminine guys are the brunt of a lot of their jokes but why visit the site if you’re constantly offended. Not you per se, but others who constantly debate this whole feminine and masculine thing. It does grow redundant to be honest.
I am curious about one thing though. When a masculine man says he doesn’t have a problem with a gay man’s femininity but he’s uncomfortable socializing with another gay man who enjoys the same hobbies, tv shows, movies, comics etc, what other reason would you have for being uncomfortable around said man besides his femininity. And this can be flipped to feminine guys who say they don’t have a problem with masculine men, but would never socialize with a masculine man who shares their same interest and values. I think there is an intrinsic distrust on both sides that is a big turn off for me personally. I don’t engage in it much myself because both sides are so engrained in their thoughts. It’s pretty much hopeless.
I’m an inbetween type. I can generally hang with anyone but prefer my nerds. Intellectually though I can see both sides of the argument. I think @nick and @ocky make a great point that I wouldn’t have noticed if I hadnt been on this site and that’s the fact that a lot of fem men do treat the term masculine as a negative trigger. I’m seeing that now. But I also understand the why. I feel like the brown guy in the dark skin versus light skin fight. I just sit back and watch.
“I am curious about one thing though. When a masculine man says he doesn’t have a problem with a gay man’s femininity but he’s uncomfortable socializing with another gay man who enjoys the same hobbies, tv shows, movies, comics etc, what other reason would you have for being uncomfortable around said man besides his femininity?” – @rolandgarros28
Very good question. We covered this in the podcast. But we talked for a long time so I understand how it could have been missed.
For starters, Men and Women can have VERY similar interests but there’s still something unique about “hanging with the fellas” or having a “girl’s night out.” Not to say that effeminate men are the same as women, but for some masculine men they see them being similar in vibe/demeanor/spirit when in their company, especially in a group.
Secondly, @Ocky mentioned in the podcast there are some masc men who prefer to chill with fellow unclockable men. And this DOESN’T mean only surrounding themselves with hyper-masculine men. I know, its fucked up to even say that but its the reality.
I still don’t quite understand it to be honest @Nick. It’s not fucked up to say what you said because it helps a person like me understand the position more. I have friends who are unclockable(a new word I learned in the live podcast) and some that are clockable. I don’t have an issue socializing with either. To me it makes more sense to shut people out due to their behavior, i.e. the flamboyant guy who does single ladies standing in line at the supermarket or yelling hey gurl across the restaurant if it embarrasses you. Outlandish behavior can be controlled but a deep voice or soft voice can’t really. My feminine friends are clockable not because they’re flamboyant but they have a couple of mannerisms such as a soft voice or a little roll of the eyes that give them away but they’re chill dudes who don’t draw attention to themselves or me. Why wouldn’t a masculine guy feel comfortable around this type of guy or not want to be friends? It does suggest, to some degree, a discomfort with femininity in men. Sorta like straight guys who say I have no problem with gay dudes at all man but shit I just can’t chill with them. Then you do have a problem with gay dudes. Do you understand what I’m saying?
@Ocky seemed very much opposed to even soft dudes being in his presence and it just seemed odd. Not necessarily wrong but “odd” when he kept stating he has no problem with feminine dudes. I guess it’s something internal in each of us that I will never…
I know u wrote this in response to @nick n @ocky but I of course wanted to chime in.
Its like bein the only black kid in school. U prob have white friends who are nice, cool guys…but if a black kid(s) comes into ur school, n u guys relate, have some ‘blackness’ in common, u wana explore that friendship. It doesnt mean u cant have white friends anymore; it just feels good to have a/some friend(s) who u feel like u completely relate to.
Sidenote- I refuse to believe that all of these grown men walking around w soft/high voices, skipped puberty. I feel like thats often the kinda choice made becus (Im gay!) and again, this is why Cypher Ave exists. We need the 13 yr old kids who feel they might be gay to realize that they can also use the bass in their changing voices, regardless of which classmates they like.
I just think what is interesting that is not address or not ever been mentioned, is the how masculinity definitions changes by geographic regions. Growing up in the Midwest and having opportunities to live in the south and on the east coast, I have been bless with the opportunity to interact with people from may different backgrounds and up bringing. I have found that masculinity comes in all different walks.
The south seems to live in the more in the dark ages, if a person is not bumping Nas or Wu-Tang and wearing baggy clothes then a person is considered soft. I just feel that you guys prospective of masculine is very one sided based maybe on ur experiences in the south and mass media.
I just feel masculinity comes in all types, and it seems like u guys focus on the nigga that got to have the “hoodish” tendencies lol
FYI: I’m not from the south. I disagree that we’re in the “Dark Ages.” Many gay men like to say that masculinity is this sliding gender scale so that they will still be considered masculine. Anyway, to the point of the podcast, I guess if its our own private Cypher Avenue meet-up, we can determine what is masculine or not. That may be the way to go. Us “Cave Men” will have to settle with living in the dark age of Nas, Tupac and Wu Tang Clan music instead of Beyonce and Rihanna. *Sad Face*
Dark Ages might be harsh, but I have notice how the definition of masculinity has evolved within str8 men and the hetero-normal society but far as in the gay community if u do not fit in this one box, you’re feminine. It seems like there is only extremes, if you like Common, Juicy J, or Pusha T then you cannot like Ciara, Rihanna, or Beyonce and vice versa.
Not saying having your own rules for a meet up is bad or anything, but it just seems as your definition of masculine is very slighted, if that the best word.
Click on our main page and name the articles that make you believe that we equate masculinity with “the nigga with hoodish tendencies.” In the last 30 days we’ve done posts on science fiction films, cooking, mixed drinks, dating, relationships, fashion, interstellar space, politics, personal and physical motivation, etc…Methinks you may be hearing a stray comment or two about Hip Hop music and stereotyping us as Hood Niggas.
I am commenting based on what I am hearing in this podcast, you equate gay guys that watch Scandal as being soft. Its creating these extremes, the masculine guys watch 24, feminine guys watch Scandal.
I am using the hip hop references just because it seems as the R&B Divas, especially Beyonce, as constant reference as being effeminate, where hip hop is equates more of a masculine guy.
For myself, I sitting listening like damn how would I be classified. 24 is one of my all time favorite shows but I love watching Scandal. I like Rihanna but J Cole is one of my favorite artist. Some of my vernacular in the first post on this podcast may been extreme but I feel like that’s how masculinity is define based on this podcast, I don’t believe you guys really may feel this but it comes off as an extreme solely on this podcast
Dude, you have President Obama as your Avatar yet you basing our entire way of being on one podcast?! What if the Republicans based Obama’s entire politics on one interview or press conference? I really thought you were more analytical and sensible than that previous statement implied. But I’m not gonna debate this all day. You win. We’re Dark Aged Hood Niggas. Case Closed. *Plays the new John Legend Album in headphones*
Essentially Republicans do, that is what Democrats did with the 47% comment based on Romney. We made this guy a villian based on one comment.
All I’m saying is it sounds as there is this one definition of masculinity and if I cannot be defined by it, I cannot be consider masculine.
Based on this ONE conversation (and none other), I would agree with that last statement. We wouldn’t consider you masculine.
That’s what I am saying, based on this podcast, the definition of masculine seems EXTREME.
1.) We never defined masculinity in this podcast.
2.) If the casual depictions of our own personal likes/dislikes/interests made you insecure about your own masculinity, that’s a topic for another post.
Insecure, not a chance, but i mean it just made me think about how others may perceive me, based on my personal choices of shows, movies, and music I like.
Just do you, don’t worry about what others think. Even if you may be perceived as a little soft or inbetween, you’re still very welcome here on Cypher Avenue.
“It seems like there is only extremes, if you like Common, Juicy J, or Pusha T then you cannot like Ciara, Rihanna, or Beyonce and vice versa.”
Specifically in the statement “you cannot like”
Who said that?
You did not say that, but that how I perceived some of your comments on this podcast. It comes off that if I say yes I watch Scandal, no I have not seen the Wire, yes I like Rihanna then I am not defined as masculine.
The perception I got off this podcast is that in the gay world, certain things like what I listen to or what I watch on tv defines my masculinity.
Either I’m doing a poor job of projecting or what I’m projecting is not being received. IDK
I am aware that we human beings are diverse. There are male cultural and traditional customs that vary by region or country (holding hands (Arab countries), arching eyebrows (Latin countries), and face painting and tattooing (many countries)) but masculinity is masculinity. As a masculine man, I feel I can still easily recognize it in most of its forms….especially here in the US.
In my experience usually in-between or effeminate men, need masculinity defined or are confused about what it is and want to see the “lines blurred” (whatever that shit means).
FYI…in the Dark Ages of the south (late 90’s early 2000’s) they mostly bumped Outkast, Goodie Mobb, Eightball MJG, Triple 6 Mafia, Pastor Troy, Lil John, etc. Not Nas or Wu Tang. I was living and so I know.
From the Podcast, Scandal = fem gay / Breaking Bad = masc gay…I don’t think I said that but I can clearly understand the perception that may be given.
@william (DW) got it and actually I agree with you about the perception.
My partner (to my understanding, I didn’t really care) has watched the first season of Scandal and really enjoyed it. He is no doubt a masculine gay man. The point that maybe was missed and not articulated well by myself is that many black gay men astoundingly gravitate and identify with women and female pop divas/celebs and things women like. i.e Scandal who’s main protagonist is a female.
If someone is coming to Cypher Ave for the 1st time and hears this podcast they may get the impression that if you are a man who watches Scandal than you’re a fem queen LOL…so again I understand the “perception”. I personally have no desire to watch Scandal. I know Masculine men look at Scandal and listen to female R&B/Pop singers and gospel music. I’m far too intelligent to be so rigid in my thinking…so again lesson learned.
@william (DW)
Okay I just listened to the podcast. I take back this statement. Yes I am aware of how things can be perceived; however I said nothing to imply that only fem men watch Scandal.
If someone listens to this and the take away is that what they watch or listens to defines their masculinity than that is on them.
Fuck that!
Ok let me explain this, @ocky and @nick, I am saying based off this podcast i got that perception, while i been listening and reading since discreet city, this podcast left this impression on me, i guess especially after how ocky commented on str8 men shouldnt watch this without there girl present. I did want to stir the pot a little but didnt want to make a big deal of it.
I dont want to be a whinny and sensitive nigga like @leeb860 mention. To clarify just cause I have an opposing opinion and have vocal on this article about it, i still support and love the site.
Back to Draking and Drinking I guess.
I love hearing opposing opinions but…That’s the thing though: The fact that you’ve been reading since the Discreet City days made your entire perception head scratching. You took a couple statements from ONE podcast and formed a entirely wild idea about how we view masculinity. Even going as far as calling us “Niggas in the Dark Ages of thought with Hood tendencies.”
You yourself admitted that ppl taking Romney’s 47% comment and creating a one-dimensional character around that was wrong, yet you did the same thing all throughout this thread. Even still, it was a flawed analysis because NOTHING said in the podcast implied we were “niggas”, had “hood tendencies” or were grunting Dark Aged Neanderthals. Hip Hop equals “hood tendencies”? Breaking Bad equals Dark Ages? Really?! I can see if we said we only wanna be around masculine, Timberland boot wearing, multiple tattoo having, basketball dunking, fresh out of prison crooks who we can smoke massive amounts of weed with…But we didn’t.
I agree you may not have been whining, but you definitely were defensively projecting your own insecurities in your comments based on not much in the podcast itself except us jokingly voicing a dislike of Scandal and Beyonce.
One thing I found interesting was the idea that gay men are attracted to heroines. Before I even knew I was gay I was doing this. I preferred Xena over Hercules, Buffy The Vampire Slayer is my favorite show. Anything with Milla Jovovich kicking ass I’ll watch and I love the Underworld series. Something about them I just find enjoyable. I don’t watch Scandal though. IT seems like a laser pointed cliche machine aimed at hitting every note of dialogue that they know will make black women and gay men snap their fingers. Does that make me less gay?
@D.W. – I see what ur trying to say, but I think u might be reading a bit too deep into it. I know @nick n @ocky go in sometimes, not to speak for them, but I think that’s more out of frustration that black gay men are too often seen as one-sided, diva worshipers. Hence, the existence of cypherave, lol.
Trust me, Beyonce is great at what she does, n I like some of her, Ciara, and Rihanna’s music. Love on Top is one of my fav songs! Maybe its becus it sounds like somethin my fav artist ever, stevie wonder, would have made, but…regardless. U can like whatever u like, I just think that ppl are often quick to take issue with the ‘examples’ used on here, as opposed to the points attempted to be made.
Life doesnt have to be any more rigid than u make it. No1 suspects anything about me when I walk down the block, because Im a naturally masculine man, but it’s possible that ‘Love on Top’, Ciara’s ‘Body Party’, or Rihanna’s ‘We found love’ is playing in my headphones. Or it could be Camp Lo’s ‘Luchini’, Gucci Mane’s ‘Pillz’, or Nas’ ‘________’ (pick one)!
Masculinity is natural to masculine guys; what u like to watch on tv or listen to on ur ipod, is irrelevant to the bottom line.
I think this seriously needs to be revisited: “There’s a little bit of BitchAssNess in you and you gonna have to correct that. You got some weakness about you and your crew need to tell you to stop with that tender weak shit. Don’t nobody wanna get on the field with a weak ass person!” http://fanscapevideos.buzznet.com/user/video/2501351/making-band-4-studio-fight/
lololol..I forgot about this! Diddy aint shyt!
N FYI, @ocky n @nick aint shyt either for that ‘men on film’ reenactment around 0:43:00…smh
Making The Band 4 was my SH!T in high school! Never missed an episode! Pretty much my introduction to reality TV with a POINT and dealing with the music industry.
Y’all are extra ridiculous for that Bad Ass Bitch song for real i choked on my pizza the first time it played outta nowhere
I have come across quite a f ew dudes who want to be like their divas,and even use Knowles or Fenty as their facebook name.not knocking them for it though.I guess if you’re interested in more feminine things like fashion,make-up, and general strong female qualities someone who embodies of all these on a high level with garner great attention and admiration from you(?)
Dude, every time i heard that shit i laughed loud as hell Lol I bet that shit was nicks idea! Lol just too damn funny !!
I think that’s going to be stuck in my head forever now haha too crazy
LOL I remember listening to the podcast and thought that song was so random. It made me laugh so hard and think about all the ratchet females back in Houston who say that about themselves EVERY DAMN DAY.
It was so random lmao just when I got myself back under control form the laughter it would pop back up
I always find it funny when dudes on this site get offended by the comments and post that @nick and @ocky make as it relates to artists, music, and shows that masculine men like. I think breaking bad and Game of Thrones are the shit… But There have been artist and shows that nick and Ocky have said that no “self respecting masculine man should watch” that I like and I never got offend, nor did I feel less masculine because of what they said. I laugh it off and say to my self ” these dudes are a trip”.
Why are gay folks soo damn sensitive and whiny?!?!?!!?!!?
Interesting indeed…
I think they take offense because they feel we are questioning their masculinity? I don’t know.
“Why are gay folks soo damn sensitive and whiny?!?!?!!?!!?”
@leeb860 I think you already know the answer to this…
True…. Just wish people would learn to have a sense of humor sometimes with out it being personal.
Now let me go play this Brandy album and cry about how my exes have done me wrong 🙁
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LMAO… My man w the struggle cornrows looks like he just found out they ran out of lunch
Nick’s gif game is something serious lol…. I have really enjoyed this site today man.
Ditto..def had some good laughs on here today
lol @leeb860 are you being sarcastic? Or for real?
Nothing wrong with listening to Brandy or any R&B for that matter. Definitely one of my favorite vocalists.
@nick with the gif though! lol
@SB3000 The white/black example you used isn’t quite the same. In that instance, you would never say you are uncomfortable being around white friends and you would maintain those white friends and can hang with them socially. I was speaking of masculine dudes who can have EVERYTHING in common with a dude but would never consider chilling with them because they are a little soft but saying they have no problem with soft dudes. I understand feeling naturally comfortable around certain people. Hell, when I walk into a meeting at work and I’m the only negro, sometimes I do feel uncomfortable but I would never say I wouldn’t hang with any of these white people because that would mean there is something about them that I don’t like and don’t want around me.
I do think both masculine and feminine prefer to stick with their own, maybe out of comfort, but no one will admit that they are physically uncomfortable around the other for fear of being labeled anti-fem or anti-masculine.
to sum it up: I don’t think you should ever make the statement, “I don’t have a problem with fem dudes, I just don’t want to be friends with them.” And you can also substitute fem for masculine and make the same statement.
I think a better example that @sb3000 could have used was Football players and Basketball players. Both groups of people may be athletes and jocks but sometimes the Football players may just wanna hang around fellow Football players. They don’t have a problem with B-Ball players, they just prefer to chill with others like them. Anyway, @rolandgarros28 this just may be a concept that you’ll never be able to grasp because you lack the internal instinct for tribalism that most others have, lol.
Lmao. You know. You may be right Nick. Maybe I do lack a natural instinct for tribalism. I’m able to hang with almost anybody granted not in every situation or environment. I don’t invite middle aged white women to my house parties and i’m not BFF with any 92 year old senior citizens but I wouldn’t go so far as some in saying I have nothing in common; therefore, i don’t want to be around them at all. I’m playing a little bit of the devil’s advocate but really, it’s just an observation that most gay dudes I’ve seen seem to only mingle with people just like them, even in platonic friendships. I have two older straight brothers and their male friends run the gamut from muscled and tall to short and thick, white and black. I’m just making the point that gay dudes really don’t even ask themselves why it is they only want to hang out with masculine dudes or why feminine dudes only want to run with feminine dudes. Gay groups just seem so homogenous.
@Ocky, it’s not a problem for me if you don’t want to keep company with or be BFF with effeminate dudes. It’s clear you’re unapologetically against that possibility and that’s fine. I’m sure you’re cordial to everyone. My question though remains. Why can’t you even envision having any kind of relationship with a dude who shares most of your interest but may be soft? I mean you can’t even go fishing with a soft guy? LOL
LOL no doubt man. I think we’re talking in circles now. Several guys have answered your question in the comments already and we spoke about it for 10 minutes in the podcast itself. Seems like no one is giving the answer you want them to give, but I think this is pretty much covered.
” I have two older straight brothers and their male friends run the gamut from muscled and tall to short and thick, white and black.”
I noticed you didn’t say feminine. You mentioned body types but not femininity…what does that tell you about your brothers?
@Ocky my brother is military and one of these friends I’m referring to is also military and gay and a little feminine and his partner is even more feminine. We all hang out when I go out to visit along with their other friends.
I don’t want to beat a dead horse to death so I’ll leave this topic alone before @Nick chokes me out. LOL I get it. You want to be around who you want to be around. No more questions.
I would say asked your two str8 brothers why they like to hang around regular guys?
Your questions remind me of a person who likes Lima beans asking a person who doesn’t like Lima beans “why don’t you like Lima beans or want them on your plate”? simply because you like Lima beans…no answer is going to satisfy you.
I don’t like hanging around fem men because we don’t have masculinity in common. For me its a very simple answer. I’m confused at the mystery.
First having everything in common with another human being in my opinion is impossible.
Second @rolandgarros28 “As a masculine man I prefer not to keep company, hang around with, be BFF’s with men who are effeminate” that’s a problem for who and why?
I def agree w ur ‘sidenote’. I guess the part I wasn’t taking into my response was the discomfort aspect. I, personally, am not uncomfortable around fem or in-between guys. I def wonder what happened to them during puberty, lol, but Im def not uncomfortable. I have a ‘friend’/coworker who runs an interesting gamut. He can fem it up sometimes, but Ive also seen him butch it up to the max n get turnt up in a club when some shit went left. We don’t hang out often, but he’s good ppl.
But, as someone who’s friends are all str8, I just think it’d be nice to know some masculine dudes like my friends, who happen to suck dick! lol
there are several elements at play here, none of which are mutually exclusive, they are all connected in someway. we as masculine gay men are the majority within the minority. so for that reason for us to be proud of our masculinity it’s almost like we are bragging for the fact that we can blend into the woodwork of a heteronormative society. So for guys who may be more feministic in their mannerisms, may feel slighted by us because they can’t hide the way they naturally are, who may have it harder in a culture that constantly reinforces gay as being unnatural even though if its in your nature to be gay then thats what’s natural for you. we as gay men are all apart of a marginalized group, because of that we have the burden of representation. we aren’t judged as individuals, we are all viewed by the dominant culture as being all the same. so for that reason we feel a strain of solidarity, having to have the burden to represent for everyone who fall within the same category as us.
But thats what I question!?!? How ‘natural’ is it for men who are born w balls n testosterone, to be so feminine. Trust me, I get it, some guys have a feminine nature as far back as they can remember. But I still think a lot of guys adopt a ‘higher’ voice and certain mannerisms becus once they know that they’re gay, this is often how they see ‘gay’ represented.
When I told my mom, she said, ‘are u sure, ur so manly’, and I had to put her on.
I genuinely feel that as more of us naturally defy stereotypes, we will see more young men realizing that it’s ok and normal to be a typical guy who happens to like guys. Its not about the extinction of fem guys, it’s about the presence of masc guys to show that gay men, like white men, asian men, black men, or firemen, are not an anomaly.
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If people can be “naturally masculine” why would it be far fetched for them to be naturally feminine? I have 2 brothers. One older and one younger and the oldest one is just…well he’s a jock. Total meathead who only thinks about sports, cars, chicks and food. My little brother can just replace sports with hip hop and he’s nearly the same way. Then there’s me who is just a soft in between nerd type. All came from the same folks but turned out completely different. It wasn’t the environment as that was always the same. So something happened along the way lol.
Hook me up with your brother yo, the Hip Hop one…
He’s like 21 with a live in white girlfriend. She’ll kill you first.
@hannibal
I hear u..thats why I said, for some guys, its nature. But I refuse to believe that if, back in the 70’s, masc gay men ere out n about n present, that all of these young dudes would be ballroom queens.
I dont care if u walk down the street singin single ladies, personally. Do u. But if u can turn around n talk to me about the Mayweather fight, even better. I still might not date u, but I can accept u 100, cus u’ve at least accepted ur balls!!! N it’s ok.
I feel like we need to start an intervention for gay men to feel ok w the fact that they can accept the fact that they’re born w testosterone.
N FYI, I want no confusion there. I can respect anyone who respects themselves. So that includes the man singin single ladies. It was a dope song for Bey. I used to date 1 of the dancers for a min..true story..
*will not go into the discussion* *will not go into the discussion*
always feel free..bcus I always make sense homie..
Well I was just a bit confused. At first it seemed like you were making masculine gay men out to be the pariah’s of black gaydom which I think it false. Then it sounded like you were merely saying more masculine gay men would feel comfortable being masculine if they saw more masculine gay men. I think that’s false too. Then it sounded like you were saying masculne men are femming it up to fit in. I’m sure I disagree with everything you said but I’m not sure what you were saying.
I was ABSOLUTELY saying that more men would realize it’s ok to be a masculine man..even tho ur gay..that was the point!
I wasn’t aware that they didnt know it was ok. Most masculine gay men I know are totally fine being masculine. They just like to stay in the house complaining that no masculine men go out…as they sit at home.
Kinda confused about why ur confused abt THAT part. If u had told me u were confused abt dating the dancer, I cldv fukd w that..but ur confused abt the blk n white?
I was confused about what point you were trying to make. Now that you’ve cleared it up I can simply disagree.
I win, bcus @ocky is wifed up..n for any1 who doesnt know, wifed up means a committed relationship
great gif choice..me n @ocky still gotta go 12 rounds over that mofo
@hannibal
Dude, its all good…Im acknowledging that diff dudes fall into diff categories, but I ask YOU, do u not think that more young men would be able to take diff paths if they were visible? I knew I was attracted to men at 13, while still bein attracted to women, when I was into my barber (who happened to be my sis’ bf best friend) n the barber next to him. But I’ll also say I’ve never felt womanly or feminine. Whats the inquisitive part abt that?
Masc men, blk or white are not visible enuff in media..but there’s always a man who will get up in drag for rupaul, or be another accessory to some ‘diva’ of reality tv..just sayin..
so no soft/feminine allowed.ok.got it.
First off let me start by saying how funny this podcast was, you guys are too funny for real lol. I was laughing throughout the whole podcast. As for the masculine only meetup, there is nothing wrong with doing that seriously. No one should be criticized for wanting to hang out with those who they have a lot in common with. If I’m not mistaken I thought that’s how most of our friendships work right? When you guys gave the example about when couples spend time apart from each other to hang out with their respective friends it’s the same exact thing when masculine gay men want to meet up with other masculine gay men only.
I think with feminine guys so many of them have been bashed for being soft or very feminine for as long as they can remember so now they are hurting on the inside and have become overly sensitive. Any comment made where the word masculine comes up, they feel like they are again being attacked for their femininity. I remember you guys brought this up in a previous post. Their reaction really points to a personal issue that they need to resolve. I hope some of them recognize this so that they can fix the issue and for once fully recover from the backlash they may have received when they were younger or are still currently experiencing.
Once again
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Hey I’m just offering my two cents lol. And I love this gif with the rock.
This is my first post on the site but I’ve been reading since the tail end of Discreet City before the conversion/migration. I really enjoy these podcasts but I think the reason some people went over the edge on this one is exclusion. I’m not going to rehash it too much since it was commented on earlier but no one likes to be excluded. Some of the backlash probably could have been avoided by having 2 events, one private, and one larger CA event. Ironically, I’ll admit the larger CA event probably wouldn’t have accomplished what some of us wanted without the filter of the private event.
I’ll reiterate that I really did enjoy the podcast. Did it hurt? Yep, rejection typically does, even in a minor form such as this. For those of us in-between’ers as you guys call it, or most masculine out of our group there’s no place for us to go either. I live in a straight bubble so it’s not always easy to find what I’m looking for. There was a comment I read on this site from @Nick or @Ocky, that we all need a “PLATONIC friend” (emphasis from the OP) like ourselves to talk to and I agree but they’re very difficult to find.
That said, I applaud you guys for the idea and I hope it works out for everyone.
I know I am MAD late on this, but in listening the only thing I was really confused (for lack of a better word) on and I think Nick was trying to get to this in a way was the actual point of the all masculine meeting. If it is acknowledged that masculinity (or femininity or in-betweenininity lol or w/e) doesn’t necessarily determine your interests, then why have a meeting where the only requirement be that you are masculine??? And just to put it out there, I am not against the idea of masc or fem or in-between or whoever have a group for themselves, I just am confused on the purpose if the only way someone gets in is based on their “clockability” and they can turn out to still love Beyonce and have absolutely nothing to contribute to the type of event you are going for, that is if the event is strictly for non-dating purposes.
Good stuff. The masculine heteronormative has long been seen a symbol of oppression to the gay community at large.
The responses you guys mentioned from the folks in the gay community that aren’t masculine comes largely as a knee jerk reaction. A lot of them are probably remembering when they were ridiculed and bullied (or worse) simply for not representing that masculine heteronormative ideal. Masculinity, in many instances, is probably a bitter reminder of how they were made to feel abhorrent or defective. Because there’s an accepted mainstream stereotype of homosexuality, many non-masculine gay dudes feel like they’ve succeeded in creating a world where they don’t have to feel abhorrent or defective any longer. So when a website touts itself as a place for masculine gay men, it could be prodding old wounds for a lot of folks. It’s seen as exclusionary, which is what a lot of them experienced prior to getting comfortable with the fact that they didn’t fit the norm.
But the irony is that there is no social monolith in the gay community. And now that a cross section of dudes are trying to congregate and get comfortable with the fact that they don’t fit in with the “norm,” the fem and in-between dudes are crying foul. Throw in the fact that a lot of those same fem and in-between dudes are attracted to those same masc gay dudes and you’ve got yourself quite a quagmire. Giggidy.
Hehe….gigidy