A couple things ran through my mind as I watched the new Vice Magazine documentary on poor, working class Black French Voguers.
1. There are seemingly no masculine black gay men in France…at least none brave enough to step in front of the camera for this documentary. I know what some are thinking…here we go again with the militant masculinity talk.
No, that’s not the case…Effeminate men are A-Okay in my book, let them live their lives to the fullest. But as a guy who has ZERO gender issues and doesn’t identify in any way with women (except as being fellow human beings with equal rights), I like to see gay men who actually like being men. Especially in different countries.
2. This whole ballroom scene, in general, is Gross to me. Yes, I said it. This is not an attack on femininity or a display of patriarchy, heteronormativity or any other academic multi-syllable word that feminists use. This shit is just gross to me.
Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who thinks that strip clubs are Gross too. The pungent smell of baby oil and sweat hits my nostrils even when I just see a video depicting those events, straight or gay.
But I get it, I really do.
In the past, I’ve watched documentaries on the ballroom scene like Paris is Burning…so I get it. You have gay men who are displaced from their real families because of their sexuality so they find new, more accepting “families” to join. They call them Houses…there’s even a Gay Mother (usually a man) who takes them in or mentors them.
And they compete with other Houses through a dance called “voguing”, probably the gayest dance style known to man…even more gay than men who twerk.
I remember when I was a teenager I accidentally watched the Madonna: Truth or Dare documentary on Showtime…yeah, I know…One of her dancers was this skinny dark skinned guy who spent most of the film shirtless. The horny young man in me kept watching to see more of him.
As I was watching it, my mother walked into the room. I scrambled to find the remote and quickly change the channel. You would have thought I was watching porn. It was too late.
“What are you watching?!” she asked with a judging tone in her voice.
Its the same judgmental tone that I now ask myself as I watched this documentary on the Black French Voguers. What the hell am I watching?!
The hooting and hollering…the cackling…the chanting…”Yassss Honey!!!”
Ugh…I just…can’t…
Would I be “grossed out” by the ballroom scene if it instead featured groups of black gay men in hyper-masculine Rap Battles?
Probably not.
But that may be part of the problem I have with it all….The fact that gay men DON’T engage in “masculine-leaning” events and activities to balance things out, probably bothers me the most.
Imagine a world where gay events on both ends of the gender spectrum existed? Instead, most of our gay events have female and feminine dominate themes.
Am I a victim of “gender policing?”
I don’t think so. I’m not advocating for these events to go away, or the effeminate men to be more masculine. Let them enjoy themselves to the fullest is what I say.
I’m actually advocating for more balance. Isn’t there room for all?
In fairness, this Vice Magazine documentary on Black Gay Voguing does dedicate a section to maleness and masculinity…30 seconds worth.
You read that right. Out of a total of 13 minutes in the documentary, 30 seconds of it focuses on gay men who are masculine (check the 5:30-6:00 minute mark). And even then, the narrator says that it’s a part of the competition where gay men have to pretend that they have “school boy realness” without looking gay.
“Looking Gay?!”
Gay men can’t naturally be masculine? According to the French Gays and the Vice Documentary producers, “Gay” equals feminine. The rest of us are pretending.
And why is “pretending to be masculine” even a part of the fucking competition? This happens in the American ballroom scenes too.
Okay, maybe this did in fact turn out to be yet another rant on gay masculinity. But can you blame me?
It’s just very frustrating to be a part of a culture that I have not much in common with. On top of that, its a culture that doesn’t seem very concerned with making sure that myself and gay men like me do have things we can relate to in the “community.”
While its fantastic that they have stepped up to the plate, even our latest representatives like Jason Collins and Michael Sam seem to be cut from a different cloth and are not very relateble to men like myself.
Even seeing new rapper Fly Young Red explicitly describing how he’ll skewer “boy pussy” over a trap song track doesn’t make me fill up with black gay pride.
What was the point of this post?
Who knows. Slow news day and I felt the need to vent a little.
While gay feminists out there may think that dialogue like this is “problematic” and “divisive”, I think its important to get it all out there and discuss these things frankly to possibly come to a mutual understanding.
Many gay feminists are only interested in regurgitating what they learned in their “Queer Studies” college class and lecturing you on why they are right and you are wrong instead of listening and finding a middle ground in thought/understanding.
Pro or con, share your thoughts on the documentary and the Ballroom Scene lifestyle below in the comments section. I’d be curious to see what all of you think, whether you agree with me or not.
I personally say more power to them. I’m glad they are proud. You may have some sense of self loathing or a superiority complex which makes you uncomfortable with the images. I don’t know. And how many masculine Frenchmen are there period
You must have missed the parts where I said “more power to them” as well.
I didn’t miss that. I also didn’t miss where you said it grosses you out
Those two positions can be mutually exclusive. I could think that onions are gross but also NOT think the people who like the taste of onions are gross.
I found your critique of the ballroom and/or vogue scene is holistically disingenuous and your ideas of masculinity limiting in nature. I feel that you place far too much attention on mannerism instead of the complete being, most of which are presented in male form. I personally don’t identify with the ballroom scene nor would I call myself overtly masculine in the heteronormative kind of way but I think that I have expanded my understanding of masculinity to find it in the most feminine of men. I don’t understand what exactly you would find appealing in “black gay pride” or what would be acceptable to what seems like a very narrow perspective. Would you suggest that men who are more “straight-acting” are higher in this mystical hierarchy of gay men, or would you suggest that “men who sleep with men” but are not gay higher on this social latter? Maybe I need to take a moment and reread this posting because I am not sure of the point.
@johnnyvboykins, when anyone on this site refers to effeminate men, they usually are referring to mannerisms and the “obvious”: arches eyebrows, lip gloss, dude in women’s apparel etc. I think everyone knows what they mean here. Right or Wrong. You just assume they’re gay when you see them or when they start to speak,
Right…we speak on the extremes here…Kinda like when we talk about “ghetto” people, we don’t mean ALL people who live in the hood…We’re talking about the NIGGAS that embarrass us. LOL.
I understand what effeminate men are and the stereotypes listed. What I don’t understand was the point of this blog posting. It reads as disingenuous but I will reread it when I get to a real computer.
I just don’t understand why a man, even an effiminate one, is ok with others refering to him as a female. The narrator kept calling the man a she. SMH. That’s disrespectful to me.
@Nick, I understand your frustration. I really do. I just think your disgust is misguided. Think about it. These guys are having fun and they have no idea who you are or that you excist so they’re not trying to be disgusting to you. I see the same sense of frustration and disgust eminating from straight men when they see two men together. Nothing can be done about people being who they are and there probably isn’t even a reason to be justifiably disgusted by it. This situation is remarkably similar to black pegasus and his constant viewing of Bossip and such.
@rolandgarros28 – I’ve already formed my opinion of your pathos and methods here on this site, but I just thought it would be amusing to hear the justification for it in your own words.
QUESTION:
– Why did you find it necessary to mention my name in a comment clearly meant to chastise Nick?
@blackpegasus, I will amuse you just once today. LOL. I was not attacking you and i didn’t tag your name for that reason because i didn’t want a back and forth but i see you noticed it anyway. I was actually suggesting to nick that he might be engaging in the same type of behavior for which he was critical of you. Maybe he sees the situations as the same and understands your feelings today or maybe he doesn’t see the similarities. *shurgs*
You two need to let out this aggression and frustration you have towards each other. I’ll buy the supplies and rent the room if yyou let me tape it.
@hannibal – forget him… .Why don’t you and I go grab some Peach Ciroc shots and discuss technological singularity and the ongoing debate of Mild versus Medium Pace Picante sauce?……oh and you can film it.
The difference with the two situations was Black Pegasus was freely going to spaces on the Internet that he knew would be toxic and vitriolic, even encouraged others to do so. The situation here is different in that the spaces I’m going to, they are supposedly welcoming places to black gay men like me. Unfortunately they seem to have the opposite effect and drive men like me away because they only recognize and cater to one end of the spectrum.
I think you totally missed the point…I’m not advocating for these events and the people who enjoy them to not exist. I’m advocating for more balance. When gay men propose or attempt to create events on the other end of the effeminate spectrum they are met with accusations of exclusion, patriarchy, heteronormativity, internal homophobia, etc…These fem-leaning events are seen as the norm and vigorously defended by gay men like yourself and others.
@Nick, I’m not defending these events. There is nothing to defend. They exist for the people who like to attend those types of events. The example I used about the sports leagues was a valid one. Those are predominantly masculine gay men playing football, rugby basketball etc. I don’t think I’ve heard the gay police arguing to shut them down because effeminate men are excluded reason being they’re not excluded; many simply don’t want to spend their weekends getting tackled in mud and pile driven into hard courts. The events don’t have to be exclusionary based on titles. The ritual itself will exclude certain people without you having to designate the event “the masculine gay event” or “the effeminate gay event.”
Just asking. What type of events are you referring to when you say events on the other end of the effeminate spectrum and would you say that the organizers of said events leave them open to whomever wants to attend? If they aren’t open, they are exclusionary on both ends of the spectrum but who says it’s wrong to exclude in every situation. We all do it to some degree with the company we keep but if you’re going to do it, don’t duck it because that only makes you appear wrong and guilty.
@nick when you have displaced kids, full of energy, craving company and to belong, when you have pent up energy and creativity with no where to release, then you can understand the ‘vogue scene.” The average age in that scene is probably 23. They are young and when society does not give them the opportunity to express themselves and be who they are then they have no choice but to create their own outlet and perform. And thats how I see it- a gay man’s outlet to be who he is. As they grow older they will release that side of them but at least looking back they can say they have lived a life that they enjoyed and they were fulfilled.
In the end @nick life is not about being masculine or feminine, gay or straight, rich or poor , black or white, religious or non-religious. It is about understanding who you are, not afraid to express it, live it and die for it. How many of us have the privilege of saying I lived my life on my own terms? Not many. A lot of us are trapped with society’s standards, brainwashed into believing man behaves this way, woman behaves this way. In the end who lives your life..YOU. and that’s what makes life so appealing..we are all so different.
The beauty lies in our differences, not our similarities. So let them vogue, let them be feminine, let them be masculine. In the end its their life, its our life. We must live it on our own terms, by our own standards. In the end the standard you choose will set you free. Sexuality must be free.
So far I see comments that are completely missing the bigger over all point which is…THERE IS NO BALANCE. As stated…
“The fact that gay men DON’T engage in “masculine-leaning” events and activities to balance things out,. Imagine a world where gay events on both ends of the gender spectrum existed? Instead, most of our gay events have female and feminine dominate themes.”
Thoughts about what you think masculinity is or isn’t in secondary to a fem dominated “community”. This point is consistently and purposely ignored.
What I typically see in the discussion is that masculine gay men lament that they don’t want to be involved because they don’t see themselves represemted . however they miss the self defeating nature of that mind set
I don’t think that not wanting to be a part of a dominate power structure that doesn’t appeal to you is defeating or a defeatist attitude. I’m all for pointing out the lack of balance and representation that again is constantly ignored by mainstream Gay.
OK help me understand. If your complaint is that you are not visible yet you wish to not be seen… How exactly do you expect to be visible?
This argument will forever be the which came first? The chicken or the egg? I will say that there are events created for gay men who like certain activities. Balls aren’t for masculine men unless you’re a masculine man who likes fem men. Balls, most pride parades, most clubs cater to those that support them. Fem guys will dance in the middle of a club until they drop dead. Masculine men will hold up the wall so a first time visitor will leave with the impression that the club was filled with only fem men.
There are many events for men who like different things as well. There are many gay sports leagues where you will find masculine men and there have been documentaries like that but of course most of these men portrayed are white. I don’t know what the hell to say. Masculine black men may be boring as hell to their own detriment.
There are plenty of masculine gay men that want to be seen. We highlight them on this site all the time. However, you hardly ever see/hear them heralded in the mainstream gay culture because they are not “fabulous” enough. They all think like @rolandgarros28, if you aren’t a flashy queen you are “boring.” Look at Fly Young Red…I believe that one of the main reasons that he got so much attention over the last 48 hours was the fact that he was a masculine man celebrating male femininity.
I don’t understand the point being made here. The author of this piece stated that he finds the ballroom scene “gross” then goes on to call for balance. It sounds as if the real complaint is that scenes like this exist at all. Why should masculine gay men desire to be a part of a scene that they see as gross in the first place?
Masculine and feminine gay men have their own spaces to celebrate what’s important to them; and neither seems to be interested in including the other for the sake of balance.
…and thats why there is Cypher Ave! :p
We have identified the “problem” so what would be your solution?
As a minority with in a minority, masculine gay black men dont usually make their presents know or their voice heard.
Also I just relocated to Tx and thet have a gay sports league and something called the gay games that are more masculine outlets.
The representation is there but its not as visible as the fem end of the spectrum
I don’t think the problem that effeminate gay men are willing to express themselves and create their own venues for their self expression. The issue is that many masculine identified gay men choose to fly under the radar and don’t involve themselves in these types of scenes because of the supposed image that they project. Which is kinda sad when you think about it. However, if the scene is to be more inclusive of the more masculine brothers, then they are going to need to move beyond their disgust of the scene and immerse themselves within the culture. Or, perhaps they need to create spaces that caters to the nuances of the members of this segment of our community. I personally don’t agree with your opinion of the scene, though I empathize with it because I didn’t really get the ballroom scene either. Once I began to attend the balls out of my own curiosity, I began to appreciate the creativity, talent and utter ballsiness “the children” give during these events. And I am by no means anybody’s masculine identified anything. If there is a change that we desire, then we have to work to make that change occur. Complaining about the lack of representation when you refuse to be the representative that could help initiate the change only ensures that the things remain as is.
Wait, so masculine gay dudes need to immerse themselves in atmospheres that is dominated by fem gay dudes so they can feel a part of a culture they don’t have anything in common with besides their homosexuality? Nope, I’m good.
I think in this case I will not be a part of the “if you can’t beat them, join them” mentality. I’m absolutely the change and representation I desire in the media and community.
I agree with you- I’m so tired of the notion that to be “really” gay a guy has to act feminine- the straight media, and I think a LOT of straight people think only feminine men are gay- even a portion of the “gay community” think “butch queens” are putting on a macho act–that somehow there are no “naturally” masculine gay men. That idea is a distortion of the truth about human sexuality. There are probably more “naturally” masculine gay men then there are fem gays. The fact that I am gay means, I am attracted to masculinity, not femininity– if I was turned on by “girly” behavior, I’d be straight, wouldn’t I? This culture is bent on putting labels on EVERYTHING, and cannot seem to understand that, perhaps, if you need boxes for everybody, you need to make even more boxes- infinite degrees of categories…
The Wizard of Oz before the curtains were pulled back.
I thought this was interesting. I guess that’s all hahaha.
To call for more balance, I think would be facilitated by a dialogue that is less inflammatory/judgmental (despite the good for thems and that they can be them rhetoric) and displays the same openness and willingness to engage in something “new” that the balance might entail. lol
But also, spaces such as this are intentional. Part of their purpose to challenge the norm. So instead of even making it about so called balance (as academic as this may sound), why not create a dialogue that allows these socially constructed binaries to find the metaphorical middle ground. How could these categories envision themselves interacting in a productive, progressive, fun, “whatever adjective fits what the goals might be” way?
You are speaking and thinking of a certain type of gay utopia. Gays are still people meaning that they can/are be elitist assholes. We have tried on numerous occasions to have dialogue which resulted in us being lectured to and told how we are doing gay wrong. Enough.
I have watched Paris is burning and found out Madonna did not invent Vogueing. In viewing this new documentary, I came away with the thought that the creativity of the art form is fascinating. The sense of family that these houses provide is commendable. Although I cannot relate to this part of the community, I’m happy it exists for those who need and want it. I’m in agreement that there is a lack of balance on the gay scene in general. It frustrates me a lot. I do know that my visibility is only as good as my willingness to share my version of what gay is. Once I began that journey, the people around me saw an alternative to what they’ve seen perpetuated in the media. I can count on two fingers the openly gay, black, masculine men that I know. When we become more comfortable in our own skin, and people see more of a variety of the gay black male, we’ll start to see a balance. Someone mentioned the documentaries on gay sports leagues that featured predominantly white men. That’s just it, black masculine men are too busy hiding to be visible anywhere. At least these men band together. I have a hard enough time trying to throw a Super Bowl party with gay, MASCULINE men, who actually watch sports…Now that’s frustrating too…LOL
“No, that’s not the case…Effeminate men are A-Okay in my book, let them live their lives to the fullest. But as a guy who has ZERO gender issues and doesn’t identify in any way with women (except as being fellow human beings with equal rights), I like to see gay men who actually like being men. Especially in different countries.”
Wait, see this is why folks get on yall. Just because a dude is fem doesn’t mean he doesn’t like being a man. And being a man is not defined by just being masculine. Careful. And you accidentally watched the Madonna? Accidentally? lol Its ok man.
Gender Identity meaning: I have no desire to take on traditional female traits and characteristics. Nor do I have a desire to blend the genders or redefine what it means to be masculine. An effeminate man may not want to be a woman, but many of them willingly adopt characteristics, dress, slang, etc from women and then say they should be included into masculinity. (this is a generalization for the sake of discussion, not all effeminate men do this) I say, be who you are, I accept your individuality, but don’t change one thing so that the new thing can be included.
Regardless of your personal feelings of the ballroom scene, you have to respect the constant creativity these young men display.
Unfortunately, these boys do have gender issues. This goes beyond just being gay. Being gay does not mean you have to act like a women. There are male models that are gay but do not wear womens clothing or act like women models. I agree with Nick this is gross. I can’t relate or understand why a man with a penis would want to dress and act like a women. Clearly, these boys need a father figure not a Gay Mother figure. The next question you have to ask is this art or an express. I do not believe this is art. I think this is built up testosterone mix with alot estrogen tablets and hair weave. We need to be real and those boys need help….
First of all, homosexuality is a mental state, if we agree that homosexuality is not natural then it’s to state that your mental state is positioned to be inclined that for every male there should be a female, your human brain has been positioned like this since the beginning of time,now for any change or aberration to this supposed “fact” the brain positions itself to assume the other role, the existence of masculine gay men is only to prove that perceptions gained as a result of experience (I.e upbringing, education etc) shows the versatility of the human mind (brain) .effeminity is not a culture, or a lifestyle….it is a science of the human mind.
Why indeed are you grossed out? I think you have very definite ideas of what masculinity is and anyone that doesn’t conform to that idea has their manhood called into question. You and others who think like you really come across as bigots with a siege mentality. “its the fems, the fems are coming.” Let me say this. My dearest friend is someone who outwardly would be considered effeminate mostly because of things he’d say or how he’d say them. Recently, he told me that he was trying to get away from acting like a girl. As his friend, I support his decision to do whatever he wants to have a better life. What didn’t occur to me until only recently is the girl vibe he used to give also came with wisdom, love, honesty, integrity and a belief that regardless what others inside and outside the gay community may think, everyone has value in the sight of God. Instead of constantly looking at effeminate guys as the other or as something shameful, you should try remembering that many of the people who’ve been at the forefront and frontlines of the Gay struggle have been the “girls.”
I hear what ur trying to say, but at the same time, why is it so hard for so many others to hear that it would be nice for masculine men to be acknowledged outside of the bedroom?
EXACTLY!!!
I completely agree with that statement, however what outlets are being created to promote the masculine side of this? Like the suggestion above about rap battles or perhaps a dance off that doesn’t feature the ballroom culture
So you’re basically saying is that Men and Boys can’t give off “wisdom, love, honesty and integrity”…that is a female or “girl” quality. Of course, I disagree.
I repeatedly said live and let live. I don’t mind fems, just these events gross me out. Even other fems don’t like Ballroom and Voguing scenes.
Lastly, the fact that Flamboyant Fems may have been on the forefront of the gay struggle doesn’t mean that I can’t think some (or all) of them are loud, obnoxious, attention seeking, embarrassments that I don’t relate to…They are not all angels that EVERY gay man should be best friends with.
These effeminate gays are really setting us backwards. I believe we can not move forward with this way of thinking. Mainstream media looks at this and laughs. The gay community accepts it because its African Americans making fools of themselves. We look like a bunch of coons on this documentry. This is not reality. These young men have gender issues.
Question, if a man of a different race is “acting white”, do they have a racial issue within themselves?
To make a generaization like that over simplifies it.
Again, I walked balls, I vougued fem and I never want to be a woman nor did I have any gender issues. I just liked vougeing/dancing.
If you were to attend a ball with an open mind you might find it entertaining.
A lot of the time we are so quick to judge others because we have been so judged. As black men and moreso as black GAY men. I once gave a drag queen a ride home only because she was a friend of a friend and I had to challenge my own belief system about drag queens being the most repulsive people on earth. In the process of giving her a ride home, I IMMEDIATELY noticed the stares and the discrimination coming from other black gay men. They were looking at me as if I smelled like hot shit. The looks screamed “What are you doing with that thing.” While I was taking the drag queen home, her sense of loneliness was debilitating, she came on to me after she asked me to take her to the drive thru to get something to eat. The whole event was pure drama as she had no money to buy her food and the girl at the drive thru looked at me with disgust because of the passenger in my car. I am SO glad I did what I did because it gave me a chance to see the other side and how the oppressed often oppress others. Who isn the hell are we to get mad at gay men who feel displaced by society (which we ALL should feel that way) who make their own community? I think that’s COMMENDABLE. It may not be my thing but DAYUM it’s no wonder why so many of us are alone. LIVE AND LET LIVE and always remember there are people who are repulsed and disgusted by masculine gay men even MORE than they are fems because they feel that at least fems are open about their shit. … I applaud these brothers/sisters as…
“always remember there are people who are repulsed and disgusted by masculine gay men even MORE than they are fems because they feel that at least fems are open about their shit.”
I don’t believe that to be true at all. If you said there are people who are MORE repulsed by DOWN LOW gay men, I might agree with you. But not all masculine men are on the Down Low. I would go out on a limb and say that Ru Paul faced more repulsion while growing up than Michael Sam did.
Dudes are out there still voguing?! Ha ha, someone needs to tell them it’s not 1990 anymore.
I was apart of the ballroom scene and I wasnt diaplaced. The allure of the scene is that fiminiinity is celebrated and even rewarded. Its not about saying I want to be a woman, its abour celebrating your individuality and creativity.
When you grow up ridiculed, harassed, bullied, ect. for being feminine and when you find a community that embraces that, it is very intoxicating because you dont have to hid or apologize.
Also if you look at the core values that the ball room scene tries to convey it is really similar to frats and other extra curricular organizations
For Gay men on here of a certain age, do you know if Gay pride Events/Parties from the past catered to masculine men at all? I’ve watched youtube videos from gay pride events in the 70s and 80s and i can’t tell if they were more masculine leaning as some suggest. Admittedly, most of the older videos are from San Francisco for some reason and the people were just waaaaaaay out there anyway. What about the early part of 2000s?
Personally, I don’t have an issue with masculinity or femininity. I do however, tend to steer clear of people that are putting on and reaching towards either extreme. Specifically speaking on this post I don’t think there is anything wrong with the opinion stated. If the over-the-top nature of the people in this documentary gross him out, then so be it and he has that right. We all have our own issues with whatever groups we are a part of because they tend to give the impression that this is what we are about. Although we do have to remember that people ultimately aren’t out trying to be the spokesperson for Gay Black Men whether they are masculine, feminine or somewhere in between. I think we all just want to live and whatever path is most comfortable to us we will pursue.
Why can’t we be a big tent community and be at peace with that co-existence? I never got the whole vogue thing, but that just meant that I went somewhere to something else with my time.
I love cypher avenue but people on here (esp the writers) make it seem like there’s a masculine agenda going on, talking bout effeminate peepz set us backwards? And effeminate people are disgusting? Really?…effeminity will always be part of the gay culture till forever, so face it and move on, in a community where identity is a huge deal I don’t blame anybody for seeking out an avenue to find one.
I agree really with everything you’ve said. I’m not into strip clubs or drag shows. The Ball room scene and everything that goes with it really is a world apart from my gay life. I met my man buying a car lol. I think my dislike of that subset of gay life is because I’m not attracted to fem men. My friends say I always date bull dogs lol Thick masculine men with deep thunder voices. Dislike may be too strong a word. I have no ill feelings for the fem group, I just do not connect with how they think or act.
We are not just refugees from straightness, binary – on and off – top or bottom. We have the possibility of inventing ourselves. I have a deep appreciation and love for even the most flamboyant gay black men because often times they have been the most courageous because they are outwardly gay in spite of themselves. I have melted in the arms of these soft and beautiful creatures. I’ve also wrestled with the most masculine dudes with the most open hearts. And I love it that way. Sometimes I go out feeling like some kind of lady but attract the most pretty dudes waiting to bend over. And sometimes I feel like bouncing a backside and am overtaken by some kind of brown warrior who demands nothing but surrender. I feel so privileged to love the spectrum and to have evolved into someone who is happy to travel a whole range of mannerisms – but be undoubtly a Man. My life would be impoverished otherwise.
I’m all for the comments pointing out issues of “femininity” and feminine gay men in lieu of the negative perception of being gay. I 100% agree with you all.
But I’m having issues with some people in these comments having argumentative back and forths with people having any issues with femininity and feminine gay men, but have issues on people challenging their views and it being wrong and/or otherwise (i.e transmen).
without femme gays, drag queens and yadda yadda there owuld be no gay rights or stonewall..