The DL or “down low” has been a topic we’ve covered in posts and podcasts since our first website Discreet City. Till this day, the word “discreet” still screams DL for a lot of people. Well, whatever.
Something that I have always found peculiar is that when there is a story of a married heterosexual White congressman or White conservative pastor who is exposed as a hypocritical closeted homosexual, the main stream media never refers to him as DL. The Down Low is uniquely African American…we started the term. We created another vernacular barrier that Black people have embraced to negatively label many Black same gender loving men.
For many in the Black community, DL isn’t limited to living a homo/bi sexual double life (in the traditional sense) but has evolved to also describe a non-descript homosexual man. This means he is not easily or outwardly identifiable as homosexual to other homosexuals or heterosexuals. Another term for this is “unclockable.” Even if this man is not deceiving anyone (which is the crux of the DL outrage) by simply existing, he is guilty of “hiding” in plain sight thus partially being deceitful.
Since 2011, there has been numerous DL or closeted homosexual related scandals and rumors pertaining to African American celebrities or personalities. From Bishop Eddie Long, former NFL players like Kerry Rhodes and Kordell Stewart, Elmo puppeteer Kevin Clash, DJ Mister Cee, Andrew “I’m Not Gay No More” Caldwell, Rapper Young Thug, Michael Sam and the latest, former boxer Yusaf Mack.
Admittedly my degree of empathy is not equal between Eddie Long compared to Kerry Rhodes. While the good Bishop has long been against any form of LGBT equality, Rhodes was exposed by a supposed jilted ex-lover. Nonetheless; I think it would be disingenuous and delusional to not acknowledge the predominate factor that creates the down low or closeted men in the Black community, which are conservative ideals based in religion.
This is not about “well (White, Asian, etc.) people do it too”; this is exclusively about Black folk. We have a serious problem concerning the lack of empathy as it relates to DL or closeted LGBT individuals in the Black community; a community that through its actions and religious dogma, produces secrecy and hiding.
The typical recipe of ingredients for creating a down low man is as follows; teach him at an early age that society disdains his feelings and he is an abomination (not-natural). Teach him that his soul will burn in lakes of hell fire for all eternity. Teach him he is the same as a pedophile who abuses and kills children. Teach him he is a faggot and faggots are weak. Teach him that homosexual males want to be women and not a men. Add a heaping spoon of judgmental ignorant hatred and stir. Just look and listen to the video below but keep in mind its nothing you haven’t heard before.
This recipe has been passed around in the Black community for countless decades and has been inserted into the thoughts and minds of a large number of young males who may have same sex attractions. As it cooks, it destructively nourishes their beings, beginning possible long term struggles with denial, self-esteem, depression or other mental conditions that can fester and manifest in dangerous ways.
Through conditioning these males learn to hide who they are as they maneuver through life seeking acceptance within their families and communities. By doing so many do what they see their peers doing; date and obtain girlfriends. Like most humans, what these males have been taught in their early years of development (their sexuality is bad) remains and travels with them to adulthood.
This year I found out a man I briefly dated (if you want to label it) years ago, not only was a pastor of a church but was married with children. At that time, I was already out of the gay scene and I had no idea that he was a well-known DL pastor. I found out because someone on social media reposted an old exposé with his picture. I was shocked that so many knew of his personal business and affairs. The article also featured his online username, his bathroom nude pics, his phone number and several screen grabs of text messages. That post led me to another article which had a link to the pastor’s own rebuttal webpage. Of course it was filled with explanations like “I been lied on and my name has been dragged through the mud but I’ve been anointed with the blood of King Jesus…blah blah blah.”
In that moment, I truly felt bad for him. Growing up in the church and establishing a career and livelihood within the institution, he has been hiding his true self for almost his entire life. This is a direct result of the fear of rejection and alienation from those in his family and ultra-religious church community that have taught him to hate his sexuality. I sent him a message to do a possible interview anonymously via email, where I hopefully would get him to share his obstacles and explain first-hand why he is DL and closeted. I’m sure he’d forgotten who I was and expectedly my email went unanswered.
The latest DL scandal finds retired boxer Yusaf Mack’s sexuality being exposed by way of a gay porn scene he starred in. In a matter of days his story went from him being drugged and having no recollection of the film to admitting that he lied about being drugged and he is in fact bisexual. In an interview, he stated while walking the streets of his native Philadelphia, many associates who were previously friendly with him, were now shunning him. A friend pulled him aside and told him the reason people were not speaking with him was because they had seen the gay porn film he had made months before.
As noted, Mack’s first reaction to this news was to lie. This was his conditioned natural reaction of embarrassment and rejection by his community. I think it can be concluded that he wrongly assumed that no one from his “heterosexual” hood would see him in a gay porno. Being honest, my first reaction to the story was “why is this dude lying…doesn’t he know he is making the situation worse?” I think most can correctly assume he’s doing porn because he needs the money.
Mack has since released an apology in which he states;
“After reflecting on the mess I had made I realized that I hurt a lot of my loved ones – and the people I cared about the most were left disappointed and confused. It was unfair and time to come clean.”
“I want to say sorry to my children and my ex fiancé, I am so sorry that I was a coward and hid a huge part of my life from you all.”
“I’m not looking for sympathy or even understanding, I’ve kept this secret for a long time.”
“It is time to move forward and this is me walking in my truth.”
“There are other men and women that are set up in the similar situations and I just hope I can be inspiration to be just be you.”
“The extreme taboo and harsh criticism of living a same-sex lifestyle, especially as an African- American male, makes it hard to be completely honest and comfortable within yourself.”
“But I had to remember that I am a champ and I can fight and will fight through this.”
“I am more than my sexual orientation.”
In the numerous articles, blog postings and social media commentaries; compassion or empathy from African Americans (both heterosexual and homosexual) for Yusaf Mack is almost non-existent. There were the typical derogatory responses from straights and not surprisingly, gays were not chanting the popular gay mantra of “it gets better”. No one was telling him, “The world is so much bigger than your hood in Philly. There are people who will support you regardless of your sexuality.” No one was questioning the current state of his mental health since the gay porn scene came to light. Yusaf Mack denied taking part in gay porn out of fear of rejection…and the Black community proved him right. After the gay film production company threatened to sue, Yusaf owned up. While this scandal continues to play out, I just hope he doesn’t do something drastic like Lee Thompson Young or Sam Sarpong and take his own life?
Fear of being revealed and then rejected by friends and family is the DL or closeted man’s Kryptonite. On the outside looking in, who am I or anyone else to say when is the right time for someone else to “come out” being that their personal hardships or plights aren’t known? I’m sure the longer they hide their true selves the harder it is to escape the ruse that has been established.
I don’t condone a down low lifestyle or any type of relationship built on or around deceptions. I haven’t been a down low or closeted man in years. I do however; fall into the category of not wearing my sexuality on my sleeve, thus for many in my community, I’m guilty of hiding in plain sight simply because they can’t readily identify my sexuality.
Why do so many in the African American community have such a lack of compassion or empathy for down low or closeted men? I think many hide behind the simple reasoning that these men are dishonest, but rarely will these same African Americans hold a mirror to examine how they personally contribute to and drive the deceptions committed by their sons, brothers, nephews, grandsons, uncles and fathers. Many never will stop and think what anti-homosexual language they have used around their children or family members. What unobtainable negative concepts of masculinity have they conveyed? What foolish micro-aggressions like “boys shouldn’t eat bananas” have they instilled?
The African American community doesn’t have a problem studying the generational psychological traumas of slavery or psychosomatic side effects as it pertains to fatherless households, police brutality or prison incarceration. Is it possible we can study the roots of generational anti-homosexual attitudes in the community as well? Maybe then we wouldn’t circumvent the magnitude European supremacy has had on shaping the ideals of sexualities of African Americans as well as indigenous peoples throughout history through mass slaughter, enslavement and religious enforcement.
The African American community has made strides. We have a Black President and First Family who supports LGBT equality. We now have many open Black gay (and non-gay) pastors and bishops who focus on love and not fire and brimstone. In addition, we have had a number of Black same gender loving athletes to break barriers. Also, there are elements of the younger generation whose views and ideals are not as rigid, so I do feel there are some shifts in a more positive direction. However; let’s not pretend LGBT suicide, youth homelessness and transmittal of HIV among black homosexual men is not prevalent.
Even though many of our paths are different, I’m sure we all know what rejection feels like. Sometimes it has a distinctive sting when it comes from people who look like you and are unwilling to show compassion or empathy.
OckyDub
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George Lee Oliver III
George Lee Oliver III
This is a great article, Ocky. I want to respond with something, but honestly dude, Im so f#$in' done with my peoples' mentalities when it comes to homosexuality; DL, Out, or other, that I just don't give a f@#k anymore. I don't see our community ever changes it's stance on the subject. There may be some here and there that are enlightened, but the better majority is still in the dark and prefer to remain there. I know its messed up to think this way, but damn man. It's like tryin' to get a dog to understand physics, it just ain't gonna happen.
It is a sad and bitter truth, but you are right. I do not see this changing much in my lifetime… It seems that a lot of Black folks are incapable of evolving on this issue.
media
All of this. Every single word!
Excellent article, very well written.
I've wondered this myself, why DL men are the scum of the earth apparently. Now some DL men are trifling and selfish but the general attitude amoung both straight and gay people is overly negative and divisive. Like you stated it drives men in this position to feel alienated and alone…makes them think and do things they otherwise wouldn't do.
I never knew there was speculation that Lee Thompson Young was gay. It broke my heart when I heard about him, he was so talented and seemed like such a beautiful person inside and out. It kills me how certain subjects within the black community like Homosexuality and mental illness (not to compare the two, I'm just saying these two cases in particular) are utter shunned or taboo to the point where someone like him(or anyone) could be driven to do the unthinkable. And we wonder why we don't get ahead! We don't support each other enough, we don't try to learn the facts or have compassion for those suffering.Too many internal problems that haven't been addressed properly to handle the other issues we face.
Tour de force! And why I f**k wit this site. This article needs to be widely disseminated.
Unfortunately too many of us view things as black or white. We also stick our heads in the sand and refuse to listen to reasonable arguments. "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve." we spending too much time thinking that our way is right or the path everyone else should follow instead of taking a moment to view how other people may feel, experience, think…. We just have now time for compassion and empathy .
Now, I can understand why women would feel hurt if they were with someone who they found out was DL/Bi. There's the fact they were cheated on which is a trust issued and the fact they have to deal with the reality that someone they had a heterosexual relationship with, engages in homosexual activities.
I definitely believe that we have to be accountable for what causes our own mess… If you know that you are having something conflict in your life you can't enter into a marriage with a female and try to hide or think that's going to fix things for you. Being bisexual is fine and dandy but it's not fair if only the homosexual partners known this about you.
You can't use people and involve them into your own problems however, what leads men to these situation? Society is telling you that you are wrong and going to hell's deep frier. You are less than a man. If this is what you have been hearing in churches since you were a child, coming to terms with your non heterosexual sexuality is made all the more difficult and causes many internal conflict that's hard to handle for some.
So I think people should try to understand why these men do what they do/did what they did. Black people and many in the black church feed these monsters and then when they reveal themselves, get mad and self righteous.
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Great article @ockydub
I can relate to the DL struggle. I used to be one of those guys. Even now I dont flaunt my sexuality for the world to see. If someone asks, I'll tell them.
Coming from a different context, Jamaica, I can understand and condone a DL dude. When the alternatives in some cases are homelessness, unemployment and even in somewhat rare cases death, I cannot tell anybody to come out. Its their lives and their arew not first world protections in place to protect individuals from the social and legal implications of actions. I have seen many Dl dudes around me at gym and work and giving their particular circumstances I know they cant come out.
Mind you, their are openly gay people here and all around. What protects them are their immediate circles and how they conduct themselves on the roads and in public spaces. If you are gay and feminine always walk in groups as you are protected. It is better If you look powerful/ a high society individual, as Jamaicans fear those who have money. Finally if you come from a "bad" family ex a gang leaders son or close relative, people know to stay the hell away from you. Or the safest of them all. act masculine or be DL.
I have said this many times. Fear is extremely powerful, regardless of how irrational the fear may be. I think DL, the term is prolific in black culture because 1) it has been perpetuated by black women, 2) cultivated in our media culture, i.e.,, black media culture, 3) reinforced by black gay media and SGL/LGBT men, and 4) never properly addressed by men who may have overcome their fears and come out. That is a fundamental difference between when this DL-ness occurs in white culture vs black culture. White gay community feel bad for those men who may be DL but black gay community either embrace or shame DL-ness and NO ONE talks about the positives of not being on the DL.
@sekou when you are using "DL" are you meaning being closeted/discreet or are you meaning carrying on relationships with women while enjoying the company of men sexually?
I mean, if you boil it down, it's deception. It's semi-understandable deception, but still deception. I usually feel sorry for closeted men because I know they aren't living.
"I usually feel sorry for closeted men because I know they aren't living." Sounds like you got some empathy bubbling up.
Well when it comes to men that get in relationships with women and then see men on the side I treat it like I would any other person that cheats, it's wrong IMO.
I mean I do. I don't judge them. Especially the "closeted" church queens. I just feel bad for them because I know they can't love that life.
One other thing I think keeps getting missed is that I believe it is a myth that just because you are open about your sexuality, i.e., telling the truth means you are somehow wearing your sexuality on your sleeve. I think many men lie via omission which is for me another condition of shame. I believe in the notion that coming out despite how scary it may be, will ultimately improve one's life (I mean as long as it is a safe environment for you to do so, I stand in solitary with my brethren in Russia and the Middle East and Africa, and the Caribbean).
I do not have tolerance for those who are abject hypocrites – those preachers and congressmen who are breaching hell fire and brimstone on Sunday and getting their D wet on Monday is extremely problematic for me.
But I do have empathy for those men and boys who are not ready to come out for whatever their reasoning is and are choosing the DL lifestyle. Although I don't like men who are deceivers, secrets hurt and sometimes secrets can kill. There is nothing wrong with being discreet as long as their discreetness is not rooted in shame. No one like people in their business, unless you prescribe to that Kardashian lifestyle.
This is gonna sound a bit controversial, I am talking both in a sense, there comes a point where people- watch-people and if you are not in a relationship with a girl, questions will arise. At that point you have a choice ….. and when that choice comes with some f**ked up consequences, people do shyt that others would not approve of. I have seen it happen and I have a less harsh view on it.
Thank you for this point of view and reminder. It's hard sometimes attempting to grasp the struggles and horrors that LGBT individuals face in the Caribbean, parts of Africa, Russia, India and the Middle East where Out or being exposed can and sometimes do equals death or imprisonment.
One of the reasons I joined the foreign service and did so as an out black gay man is part symbolism and part hope for LGBT people all around the world. Because the places I will go they will know that their lives matter, that they are not wrong, that they should not be killed or imprisoned for simply being who they are. Also, my story goes a little further, I am a black gay American man something that doesn't get too much attention even in places as diverse as the State Department or within the ranks of the diplomatic corp serving around the world. Whenever someone tells me we have made it, I show them the historic picture of the 6 openly gay US Ambassadors currently serving, they are all white men. No women or persons of color, we still have a way to go.
"All in the name of a sacred religion. " WHET!!?? YOU got sum'in against JEEEZHUS?! I know ONE thing…YA'LL Gays and Dowwwwwn LOWs needs ta get right wit GAWD and repent. cuz' when JEEEZHUS come, I know who AIN'T, gon' be wit me in the GLOWRAY! HEEEY!!! PRAISE HIM!!" LOL!!!
Great article man!
Thanks for clarification. I think in situations and areas where matters of sexuality can be a matter of life or death, there should be various levels of tolerance for DL men. I definitely would not tell anyone to live their lives if that put them at risk.
Americans and European countries have so much freedom and it's something we tend to take for granted when it comes to being open about sexuality.
See there. LOL
I think since we have that freedom we have a duty to stand up and be counted. As long as you personally are ready to do that. When I say be counted that doesn't mean go march in the annual gay pride parade but simply live as openly and honestly as you can to show people that you just as basic as the rest of them. :whoo:
Lol not Aunt Ester though! :heh:
I understand that different situations cause people to do what they. The last thing I would want is for someone to feel misunderstood….judgemental attitudes are so easy to fall into when you've never been in a specific situation.
In this post DL is broadly defined. I tend to think of DL men as narrowly, bisexual men who passed as straight who usually have wives, girlfriends or baby mamas. However for the sake of argument I'll go with the broad definition. There are certain groups of DL men in have sympathy for and others in have no sympathy for. I don't have sympathy for people like Eddie Long be they religious or political leaders. I think they deserve to outted and publicly embarrassed. I have some understanding towards bisexual men who choose to hide because of rampant homophobia of the black community. I also have understanding to the "unclockable" gay men who just want to quietly do them without any static from the community or the wider society. I used to feel that way myself when I was younger. As I've gotten older I came to the conclusion that things won't improve if we all continue to hide.
Indeed a great article. Until the phobia and stigma of being gay or even bisexual explodes and disappears from our existence, especially in the Black community, the DL man will always exists. People who have a religious view on any non-heterosexual because of the well known passage in Leviticus about "…A man shall not sleep with a men…" and all that is perceived with that and people who look at the typical "stereotype" of what a "gay man is" not seeing a man being anything other than a straight man don't seem to go left with their position at all and are indeed the primary fuel that allows gay and bisexual men to dwell as hermits and all them to put on the DL uniform on everyday. The Berlin Wall is still up. Hopefully, one day it will come down.
This is exactly why I'm critical of and despise religion. It is christofascists, islamofascists, and their minions in the political sphere which give legitimacy to atrocities like this
under guise of following the will of god.
Nigeria
Iraq
Iran
Damn this was a really good article. Can we also discuss why it is that when a woman says she's bisexual, it's a non-issue but, when a man says he's bisexual, people don't believe him and say he's using bisexuality as a cop-out to soften the blow of him actually saying he's gay? These are things we need to start talking about out loud instead of keeping it under wraps. I feel this is the only way we can begin to break down the barriers we in the black community have built that are destroying so many black LGTBQ men and women!
Great article. I do have a certain amount of sympathy for many DL men, so long as they aren't the ones perpetuating the cycle of shame, guilt, and self-destructiveness. I think things are changing for the better slowly but surely here in Black America, but, it's a slow process and has been ingrained in the steeples of our culture for so long it will take time.
Love the article. It's amazing to me that people have such disdain for these "DL" dudes and yet won't accept their part in the creation of them. Don't get me started on black women and their need to always play the victim in this scenario. They'd be okay with a man cheating with a woman, but since it's another man that's too far. C'mon! Is it deceptive? Absolutely. But ask yourself why they are being deceptive.
It's because some deceptions are worse than others and cheating with a dude makes them less than a man. Even on some of the comments on Yusef I saw one lady say he had all these kids because he was trying to prove something but he's still gay.
Again everything is black and white with a lot of black folks. You can't like Popeye's and KFC. It's either one or the other.
???????????? WHAT'S THE SOLUTION ????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Years ago white people wouldn't except biracial children if they were part black/negro, but these children were always accepted by the black family. They probably did so by asking themselves the question: "ARE WE NOT FAMILY" I wonder how many of them grew up to be prejudiced against DL men?
For many years GAYS and Lesbians were not accepted in American society.They were beaten, spit on, abandoned by family, and not hired! I wonder how many of them were prejudiced against DL men? ARE WE NOT FAMILY????
LGBT aka Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender. Should finally recognize that a man (and I'm speaking for myself) who felt he could totally be accepted for his bisexuality most likely would not live on the DL but would openly respond "Yes I am bisexual" if or when asked. So now I ask YOU LGBT community, ARE WE NOT FAMILY???
A murderer, thief, or a man who has extra-marital affairs with other women is accepted and will receive visitors while in prison. But the outed DL man is shunned by his friends on the streets of Philly! Even gay people say, "You're just confused!" Are we really??? Can a person not like chocolate and vanilla? Dogs and cats,
Most bisexuals that I associate with will only date or enter in a relationship with one person/gender at a time. We consider this being fair to the other party involved. Should things get really serious where both parties are talking becoming "exclusive" maybe then we may decide to show our hand. But even then we take a risk of being rejected and abandoned. I hear arguments from people who say, "If it was me I wouldn't care what people would say or think about me!"
It's hard for someone to say what they will do until you've walked in those shoes……ARE WE NOT FAMILY??
This is an important article, we definitely need to have more understanding and empathy for the DL folks
DL "brothas" are not going to be getting any compassion or empathy any time soon from straight black people. There are a number of reasons for this, chief among them is that the straight black community places the blame for the high HIV/AIDS infections rates among black women mostly on the shoulders of DL men. You've heard the storyline: black men who secretly have raw sex with men and then come home and have sex with their wives, girlfriends, baby mamas, etc., giving the virus to those women. J.L. King's 2004 book about the "down-low" single handedly set the stage for where we are now regarding this DL issue. The DL and all the highly negatives associated with it are not going away any time soon: many straight black people apparently believe that ANY black gay man who is not obviously and/or openly gay is on the DL. Whether he dates women or not. It seems to me that a "masculine" black gay man who does not sex women (but who is not open about his sexuality) is often seen as MORE of a threat to the black community then the more "clockable" types. This entire DL mess has contributed greatly to the state of toxic warfare that currently exists between the sexes in the black community. It seems that the only time a DL "brotha" comes up from the DL, so to speak, is when he is forced to like Yusaf Mack. I'm sorry but I don't have any sympathy for Mr. Mack. Men like him are the problem. Straight black women, justifiably so, do not want to sex men who themselves are sexing men. When they think of this their minds immediately go to becoming infected with the HIV/AIDS virus and who can blame them. What's the solution? I think that the primary responsibility falls on the DL "brothas" to come up from the DL. They need to be honest with their female partners. NO MATTER WHAT the consequences. The secondary responsibility is on masculine black gay men who do not date women to come out of the closet and tell their stories. Why is a masculine black gay man who does not date women but who is not open about his sexuality a "problem"? Masculine black gay men who do not sex women are not really a problem but it appears that many straight black women think they are a problem because if they see an attractive straight acting black gay man some black women are going to be "interested" in him and wonder if they have a "chance". Straight black women need to see that there are masculine black gay men out there who are not trying to date and/or have sex with women. Masculine black gay men need to tell their stories and show that they are not these monsters having sex with men and then having sex with unsuspecting women possibly exposing them to HIV because that's what many straight black women think. This act of understanding on the part of masculine black gay men who pass for straight might help contribute to peace of mind, even sanity, among a large number of straight black women.
Everything you just said is 1000% correct.
I agree. Bisexuality exists and yes WE ARE FAMILY! As a gay man, I have no issues with another man telling me he's bisexual (not "I don't get into labels" or pansexual). I know that he is sexually and physically attracted to men and women and with that, as long as he is faithful to and respects our situation and him being with a man, we can ride out into the sunset.
Very true.
Yeah. I feel some empathy and understand how toxic attitudes pushed Mack to do what he did. I hope he lives a healthier, more honest life going forward, but fear doesn't justify life-altering deception. I'd feel pissed or at least deceived if I were one of his loved ones too. Not to mention that, upon being discovered, his response wasn't to own it but to continue harming and spreading deception by slandering the porn company. Reminds me of stories of homophobic high schoolers who crap on clockable gay dudes or hidden gay Republicans and preachers who fight LGBT matters. I get why they do it and, when they're discovered, hope they grow change their ways, but I can't let the pain they cause slide.
It's easier to empathize with DL guys that are simply closeted and not using others to portray a certain lifestyle. They're primarily harming themselves and I wish they felt free to live their lives fully and openly. The ones discussed in media tend to be those that confuse or hurt others due to insecurity or trying to appeal to those who don't even respect them.
Addendum: "I'm sorry but I don't have any sympathy for Mr. Mack. Men like him are the problem." I tried to delete the second sentence during the editing process but the change would not go through. Mr. Mack has come out as gay (not bisexual, but gay) in a recent interview. He also said during this same interview that his 23 year old daughter told him to "kill yourself, you embarrassed the family". There is real pain in his eyes as he says this. My question is who taught this young woman that it was OK to hate gay/bisexual people? Obviously, this is the homophobic world he grew up in. But he helped perpetuate that world by not being honest about his sexuality. If he had come out to his daughter while she was a child she might have had a different idea about what gay/bisexual men are about. Instead this young woman found out about her father's sexual orientation by way of a gay porn video that features her father with a penis up his butt, two penises in his mouth at once and hotly tongue kissing two men. Quite possibly the daughter has seen all or part of this video. This man's actions perpetuates the tired (for often true as in this case) DL narrative of an irresponsible man who does not care about the lives of the women and children he was supposed to provide for and protect. Imagine what some straight black women must be thinking: if this black man (a boxer) could be on the DL ANY black man could be on the DL. This is why is a perfect example of why it is so important for masculine black gay men (whether they date/sex women or not) to be open about their sexuality. Ultimately it helps all of us, gay, bisexual and straight to understand each other better. After I saw the video with Mr. Mack looking dejected about what his daughter said to him I have deep compassion for him. I wish the best. Note: The kind of dejection that Mr. Mack is obviously dealing with now is the kind of dejection that more "clockable" or openly gay men deal with all the time. This is partly why I initially had so little sympathy for him. As a man who could "pass" for straight he has probably laughed at and/or told his share of "gay" jokes and worse but now that he has been "outed" he can see homophobia for the evil, hurtful thing that it is. Maybe he will use his newfound knowledge to help the community he now finds himself a part of.
Corrected this.
Black women need to take responsibility for their own sexual behavior. If a straight man has raw sex with women and contracts HIV, they are not going to have gay men as a scapegoat in that case. Folks can't blame a third party on why they have an STD.
We are all directly responsive for our health and blaming people your partner had sex with before you is incorrect.
These ladies are not too worried about STDs a d safe sex in the first place because if they were, the ones who have baby daddies wouldn't have them.
You have to be an active participant to prevent a pregnancy and reduce STD transmission. Many times these ladies are not doing that and these issues go hand and hand whether they realize it or not.
ControlledXaos Would you say this in a room full of straight black women? I think not if you wanted to live to see another day. Most straight black women are deeply invested in the idea of blaming DL men for their high HIV/AIDS infection rates. This whole DL scenario is now at the level of a belief system (a dysfunctional belief system but a belief system nonetheless) among many straight black women these days. What you say is true about certain sexual situations (man sharing, casual/random sex, etc., for example) but consider this: Iyana Vanzant did a series a few weeks ago on Oprah's OWN network about two married (to women) black gay pastors. Their wives and families did not know these pastors were gay. They came out on Iyana's show. One of these preachers stated that he cheated on his wife with "five" (my guess is that if he admitted to five there were probably more) men during the marriage. I'm sure the wives of these two pastors were not using protection with their husbands nor would most people expect them to. In hook-up situations of all sorts, sensible people use "protection". On the hand, when a woman is married to, or in a committed relationship with, a man she is probably not going to be using or thinking about using any kind of protection. And no reasonable person is going to blame her (assuming she was faithful to her husband/partner) if she comes up with something she can't get rid of.
Sorry, but if a woman is in a committed relationship and contracts HIV from her partner, she has every right to feel betrayed and to blame him. Also, historically, black women have been the black man's strongest ally, so we simply cannot dismiss their very valid concerns with a heartless "you need to look out for yourself".
So glad you wrote this article Ocky. I think about this a lot. As much as there are some things that annoy me about DL men, at the end of the day I do have sympathy for them. I realize the factors that keep men in the closet and it bugs me that some of these guys never find the courage to be their true selves. A lot of these guys are hurting on the inside and live their whole lives like this. Going through this as a child and young adult was rough and luckily I found the strength to break through the bonds that kept me in the closet. But to go through this for most of your life can't be easy, it's sad when you think about it. And I wonder if there will ever be a time when homosexuality is acceptable enough to where guys don't look at coming out as a suicide act.
ControlledXaos Would you say this in a room full of straight black women? I think not if you wanted to live to see another day.
I sure would say it in a room full of black women with zero phuqs. People need to hear and read the truth and sometimes, the truth is ugly and it hurts.
You have to be an active participant to avoid getting an STD. You have to be an active participant to avoid getting pregnant as well. The same circumstances that cause unwanted or unexpected pregnancies are usually the same ones that can lead to acquiring an STD. If a woman has sex with a man knowing she hasn't taken precautions that would lessen the chance of her getting pregnant, but she doesn't get Pregnant and instead gets an STD, she still has to recognize her part in the risk taken and the consequences that caused her to acquire the STD. You can't be mad at the acquiring the STD but had it been a pregnancy, be OK with it and surprised when you are not in a fully committed relationship or dont fully trust the guy.
If someone lies to you about their STD status, that's different. But recognize that a risk was taken regardless of what the outcome may be if you have sex with them. HIV tests are usually free. Get tested at the same time if you are single before you have sex with the guy. Any time Simone puts up something blowback about an STD test, that's a sign. If they get upset about you questioning their truthfulness when a test isn't going to hurt or harm… That's a sign.
On the hand, when a woman is married to, or in a committed relationship with, a man she is probably not going to be using or thinking about using any kind of protection. And no reasonable person is going to blame her (assuming she was faithful to her husband/partner) if she comes up with something she can't get rid of.
Yeah. I didn't say anything that went against this particular situation but many women out here are having unprotected sex with no ring or with zero commitments. I would not expect a married couple to not have raw sex. I would not expect a married couple to whip out condoms for sex either.
My statement was never meant to be a catch all for every situation where men who have sex with men who also have sex with women also bring STDs to them. It's the same as if they were sleeping around with women and having unprotected sex and catch an STD and bring it home.
Bringing the STD to the committed partner is the issue. Where the infectee gets the STD from, female or male, isn't something one can go around blanket blaming gay people for.
So if women are out here with no reasonable expectation of commitment while also not taking precautions to avoid pregnancy, why are they having raw sex with someone they don't fully trust?
I agree that sexually active straight black women who are not married or in committed relationships should take much better care of their sexual health than many of them do. But here's the thing. I've often heard HIV positive black women blame their HIV+ status on "heterosexual sex". This declaration is meant to absolve them of any personal responsibility for their condition and it works with many straight black people because it implies that she is the innocent victim of a DL man who "gave" her the virus. It doesn't matter to many straight black people if the "heterosexual sex" took place in a marriage/committed relationship or whether the black woman in question met a stranger at "da club" and had unprotected intercourse or anything in between. In the black woman's mind and in the minds of many straight black people it was the DL man's fault. She gets to be the victim and he's the monster who infected her. I'm not saying I agree with that I'm saying that this is how many straight black people look at it. Fairly or unfairly, many straight black people believe that DL men are destroying the lives of straight black women by infecting significant numbers of them with the HIV virus as if black women have no self determination in any and all sexual situations. This is why there is not going to be any "empathy" for DL men any time soon among most straight black people. Here's a very interesting story: I was having a discussion (in an internet setting) with a straight black man about HIV infections in black women. He was blaming gay/bisexual men as a collective for the high HIV infection rates in black women. I asked him what about GAY MEN who have NEVER had sex with a woman. His response to me was that gay men and bisexual men have sex with each other and then bisexual men have sex with women (and men) so gay men are, therefore, "indirectly" giving the virus to women!!! lol So he still found a way to blame gay men (who don't have sex with women) for HIV infections in women. The meme of the DL man as an "agent of death" among straight black women is not going away anytime soon in the straight black community.
Yesterday, 12-1-15, was World AIDS Day. "Black News, Opinion, Politics and Culture – The Root" did a post entitled "True Stories – Positive Black Women". It was written by Kirsten West Savali. Ms. Savali profiles 4 HIV positive black heterosexual women. These black women spoke of how they became HIV Positive and the hardships they faced. They generally described being in heterosexual relationships/marriages and being cheated on by their "down-low" partners/husbands. These black women speak of the devastation of finding out they were HIV-positive and that their partners/husbands were sexing men behind their backs. In one profile, the black woman said that her partner knew he was infected and infected her ON PURPOSE. Ms. Savali's article is an indictment of DL men if there ever was one and let me say that I don't think that frying DL men was the primary (or secondary) intent of her article: the article's main intent, I believe, was to humanize HIV positive black women. There will be no empathy for DL men in the straight black community and if these women are telling the whole truth there shouldn't be. I have gone back and forth somewhat over this issue and I've decided that regardless of how homophobic society is in general, or black society is in particular, I have NO empathy/sympathy for men like Yusaf Mack. They deserve whatever they get when they're "outed". Black men like Mr. Mack make all black gay/bisexual men look creepy at best and monstrous at worse. There is no sugarcoating this. The solution to this problem would be for DL men to come up from the DL (but we know that's not going to happen on a mass scale). Also masculine black gay men, who do not have sex with women, could help by coming out of their closets and telling their stories (but that's not likely to happen on a mass scale either). The only realistic way forward that I can see is for each "conscious" black gay man to live his life openly and with integrity so that the straight people in his life can see that we're not all messed up inside. Those conscious black gay men can show the people who know them that at least a few us actually like who we are and have found a way to THRIVE as relatively sane openly gay black men. Enjoy your day, men.
Sigh…the closet/DL (as a whole) would not exist if HETEROSEXUALS were not anti-homosexual. If your focus (like many in the black populace on this topic) is on the effect and not the cause…the effect will continue. If this is not the starting point in the conversation or discussion then…
The closet would not exist if the gay/bisexual men who are in the closet would just stop being afraid and come out of it. This is not the Middle Ages. This is not the 1950s. It's 2015, soon to be 2016. It's not against the law to be gay in the US anymore. Sodomy laws in America were declared unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court more than 10 years ago. We now have marriage equality in all 50 states. You are giving straight people way too much power. Straight people don't have all the power unless you've been indoctrinated to think that they do. What if the black Civil Rights Movement activists of the 1950s and 60s had waited until viciously racist white people of that era decided to stop being racist to make their move? They (we) would still be waiting for Jim Crow to end. What if Rosa Parks had decided to give up her seat on the bus to the white man because she was scared she would be arrested or even beaten/killed? No, Rosa stayed in her seat, faced down her fears, took control of the narrative and changed the world. The same thing can be done with homophobic straight people. My generation of black gay men (baby boomers) were mostly afraid although a few of us were brave: my activist years, for example, were approximately from the mid 1980s to the early 1990s (not to pat myself on the back). I'm frankly surprised that a younger generation of black gay men (20s and 30s) are still, after the victories LGBT people won in recent years at the highest levels of government, so afraid of straight people. Things are not going to change until and unless a critical mass of black gay men take control of their (our) narrative and begin an honest and open dialogue, regardless of the consequences, with straight black people about who we are. White gay activists challenged straight white people starting in the late 1960s (the Stonewall riots) and look where they are now. I'm surprised that a younger generation of black gay men, at least on this site, don't get this. There can be no change without decisive action on our part.
I'll just say this…your point of view is short sighted, unempathetic and dangerous and helps continue the very subject matter. Agree to disagree…thanks for visiting.
That pretty much sums it up 1000%. The reason why there are (and will continue to be) gay and bisexual men on the DL/in the closet is because of the overall stigma that comes from heterosexual men and women who see homosexuality and bisexuality as they have always seen it, even with there being natural fact that a human being can be non-heterosexual and it not being because of molestation/rape, lack of parenting (i.e. single mothers) or some "How To Be Gay/Bisexual 101" workshop that's been going on. It's not to say that those 4 straight women and many other straight women that have dealt and are dealing with gay and bisexual men on the DL/in the closet should endure the aftermath of having HIV. However, at this point, we all know that HIV/AIDS and other STIs/STDs are not because of someone being gay or bisexual. Only idiots will think so. The fact is that until the social culture of heterosexuals can incorporate the idea that sexuality is not just heterosexuality from the household to the church and the narrative that heterosexuals put out there in society about homosexuality and bisexuality is washed away, there will be no extermination of the DL/closeted man, especially those men who are Black. Thus, there will be more stories of straight women joining the same club those women are in.
What you're suggesting still won't change the fact that openly gay men are vilified in the black community as public enemy #1 just like DL men. The black community doesn't make a distinction between openly gay and bisexual men, closeted gay men, and dl men. Also it doesn't change the fact that too many heterosexual black women are cavalier about their own safety. They like to play the victim even though they are just as guilty of perpetuating homophobia which creates the DL problem.
You don't stop "living your truth" because straight black people don't like it. You keep being you. That's how you show you have backbone and build credibility and respect. One reason why many straight black people group the categories you mentioned together is being we black gay/bisexual men have failed to tell our individual stories. We can't blame them for being confused about who we are when we are afraid to set the record straight. If you lose relatives and "friends" along the way, so be it. You didn't need those people anyway. It's not like you're a kid who still needs those people in order to have a roof over your head. Every gay man should have a gay support system anyway as protection when (if) straight people (including relatives) start acting crazy.
Your first statement will NOT happen if there is blatent homophobia and the backlash of even being gay or even bisexual within our communities, especially amongst Black people. There shouldn't be gay and bisexual men on the DL. However, look forward to a lot of gay and bisexual men being on the DL, until homophobia is exterminated.
Straight black people have no reason to change their homophobic ways because they are perfectly comfortable with things just. the. way. they are. We (black LGBT people)are the ones who are suffocating underneath the weight of black homophobia. If we don't take the initiative to nudge them in the direction we want them to go they will continue to do as they always have and we will continue to live stunted lives.
I really don't see a need to respond anymore to this topic. However, I cringe reading the BS in your last two statements.
I'm 100% behind you on DL gay and bisexual men and the world they live in, including the many issues with those men in general. But it's completely sad that you have this mental standpoint of not accepting that homophobic and biphobic heterosexual men and women play a BIG part in the reason why DL gay and bisexual men exists.
Much success!
this is a really good article i enjoyed reading this a lot, i'll keep my personal comments to myself so as not to offend anyone…
Very true and inspiring, bro!
Or, maybe it’s just a weak and pathetic excuse to be a pimp, player, cheater, woman abuser. A DL man gets himself involved with a woman because he needs someone to love and take care of him, meanwhile he’s out having unprotected high risk sex with other men, constantly lying and causing drama to her life. DL men don’t deserve sympathy, boo hoo, tears, you were forced in the closet. At the end of the day. a cheater is a cheater and a liar is a liar, and a DL man can easily ruin a woman’s life. If you feel so driven to the closet, then stay in it, and be the straight man you pretend to be.
I get the "hurting women" position you are taking. However, you are too lost in that position to see the environmental and social issues that have birthed the DL man.
And WHY did I respond?…lol You trolling sir!
Huh? This sentence doesn't make sense.
This is a really old article so I doubt anyone will see this but I guess it will be cathartic to get it out for my own self. My former partner was on the DL. I found out when I had inexplicable fever and sever stomach pain that landed me in the hospital and an abnormal Pap smear that I had an infection, STD. I had tested clean after my partner before him, and had never cheated. I asked about it, and after threatening to break up because I knew he was lying he admitted to cheating and it being with men. When I told him I was done, and didn’t want to be with him, because of the lying, he beat the shit out of me. Then blamed me for having caught a charge (I didn’t call the police a neighbor who heard him screaming and breaking stuff did).
And here’s the crux and what makes it so heartbreaking, we had had many MANY conversations about sexuality and what we liked and if we wanted an open relationship etc. when we started dating. He had EVERY opportunity to be honest and he could have kept his sexual activity the same, and I could have been spared being really sick. We could have used protection and tested regularly. When I asked him why he didn’t want to go that route he said, HE DIDN’T WANT TO SHARE ME WITH ANYONE ELSE. That’s all flags of narcissism right there and that has nothing to do with sexual orientation, just being a shit person.
I know that navigating sexuality especially for men of color is difficult, I haven’t lived it but I can imagine that is is terrifying and it’s sad that there is so much judgement.
That being said, what I cannot abide is breaking the heart of someone else and risking their health and life while continuing DL behavior while with them. That is cruel and I have no sympathy for men that do that.
For anyone wondering yes, I left him and I was so traumatized by that relationship I’ve been scared to date a man since.