CA Podcast #56 – The “WTF is Going On With Frank Ocean” Episode

By Cypher Avenue | Posted Sep 22 2016 | 36 Comments  

ca-podcast56

Brehs, we present to you a new episode of the CYPHER AVENUE PODCAST where you’ll hear us give updates, engage in heated topic debates, interviewing interesting homosexual men of color and us verbally adding on to the articles posted on the website. The episodes will be available in four ways: You can listen to them on the site, watch on YouTube, download a MP3 version or subscribe to us on iTunes or YouTube for automatic updates!

In this podcast, host Nick Delmacy is joined by critically acclaimed gay rapper LASTO to discuss the status of his music career, the LGBT music scene (including newcomer Young M.A.) and an in-depth discussion on The Man, The Music and They Hype surrounding Frank Ocean’s latest albums ENDLESS and BLONDE.

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CYPHER AVENUE PODCAST #56

 

About the Author
Cypher Avenue

Cypher Avenue is a direct response to the lack of a single website on the Internet catering to gay/bisexual men that love hip hop, pop culture, video games, sci-fi and mature, open minded conversations. Topics ranging from sex, sports, movies, new tech, science, fashion, comic books, politics, working out, hip hop, booze, television, cars, the outdoors, geek stuff, dating, and relationships; you name it, we have it.

   
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36 Comments Feel Free To Join The Cypher.

  1. BlackguyExecutive
    BlackguyExecutive | September 22nd, 2016
    0

    How is Frank Ocean ambiguous?
    [​IMG]

  2. Nick Delmacy
    Nick Delmacy | September 22nd, 2016
    0
    BlackguyExecutive

    How is Frank Ocean ambiguous?
    [​IMG]

    In 4 years and 3 albums, Frank Ocean has sang a total of 8 words possibly alluding to his mysterious sexuality. In that same amount of time, I've written 80,000 words on Cypher Avenue explicitly and clearly stating my homosexuality. See the difference?

    Also:

    1. When has he ever clearly said that he was gay or bisexual?
    2. Have we ever heard or seen proof of him actually dating a man?
    3. Are his lyrics not cryptic and full of hidden, oft mumbled, ambiguous references to fluid sexuality?
    4. Does he not mix pronouns to this day?

  3. Dante
    Dante | September 23rd, 2016
    +1
    Nick Delmacy

    In 4 years and 3 albums, Frank Ocean has sang a total of 8 words possibly alluding to his mysterious sexuality. In that same amount of time, I've written 80,000 words on Cypher Avenue explicitly and clearly stating my homosexuality. See the difference?

    Also:

    1. When has he ever clearly said that he was gay or bisexual?
    2. Have we ever heard or seen proof of him actually dating a man?
    3. Are his lyrics not cryptic and full of hidden, oft mumbled, ambiguous references to fluid sexuality?
    4. Does he not mix pronouns to this day?

    LMAO!

    I love his mystique and his blatant encrypticness. And I wouldn't care if it stays that way. f**k it, it should stay that way. It was the same with Prince. Though it was obviously CLEAR he was not straight and he never up and made a public announcement about his 60/40 bisexuality, he made it about the music and no man or woman cared, even with his asscheeks out in pants and the high heels proudly screaming "Burrrrrrrrrtchhhhh Yasszzzzzzzzzz". We shouldn't be so needy to want a gay or bisexual man or woman to shout "I suck dikk or eat p*ssy….And oh, hear is my music!". Straight men and women do not have to do that and us gays/bis shouldn't have to.

  4. OhSheit
    OhSheit | September 23rd, 2016
    0

    One of my least favorite podcasts :scust:

    • SwagJack
      SwagJack | October 4th, 2016
      0

      I follow a lot of podcasts and have noticed that my least favorite episodes are the ones where one or more of the hosts aren’t present or subbed with a guest.

  5. OhSheit
    OhSheit | September 23rd, 2016
    0

    Delete it.

  6. jusrawb
    jusrawb | September 23rd, 2016
    0

    The reason I like Frank Ocean is because his projects are different then what I'm use to. His content is often times cryptic which makes me want to find out what it means and I like that challenge. He also tells a story which I like when artist do that. I hear a lot of comparisons and expectations but that's the thing I think he doesn't care about competing or meeting expectations; he produces what he feels and how he feels. I think people want to really put him in a box and not be so abstract or ambiguous instead of understanding accepting that just not him. Just want to end by saying yes I'm fan but with every artist I like there are songs and things the I may not agree with.

    At the end of the day everyone has their likes and dislikes and opinions. There is a variety of music for everyone.

  7. Noosphere | September 23rd, 2016
    0

    Don’t know if you’ve posted this on the forum already but in case you haven’t I think you’ll see the relevance. Officially out today.

  8. Nick Delmacy
    Nick Delmacy | September 23rd, 2016
    0
    Dante

    Straight men and women do not have to do that and us gays/bis shouldn't have to, either, music or otherwise.

    As critical you are of bisexuals, this is surprising that you are giving him such a pass.

    On top of that, straight men and women are not so cryptic about their sexuality, especially the straight musicians. People like Prince may have played around with gender in appearance, but he was VERY clear on singing and talking about his love for women.

    Frank Ocean is not. I would argue that it was not "obviously CLEAR that he was not straight" before he posted that story on tumblr 4 years ago. On top of that, it was just a story. One that was very vague and could not be verified. Also, it was a pretty PG rated story. He didn't say he fell in love with a man and that they had kissed, made love or secretly dated. He said he fell in love with a dude who was his best friend, told him about it, got rejected, cried and nothing else happened. That could describe most heterosexual friendships when they separate for college or the military.

    Even if the story is true (which I believe it is), for a celebrity musician who is "obviously bisexual," the public has only been exposed to his hetero side, never his gay side.

    If they can dig up Hilary Clinton's emails, you mean to tell me that Frank Ocean is Gay/BI but NO ONE has a photo of him on a date with a dude or anything? I guess that's possible, but as far as his public persona, he's Gay/BI in name only.

    For a supposed "vulnerable musician," in his lyrics he's very closed lipped when it comes to that side of his sexuality…

    • SwagJack
      SwagJack | September 23rd, 2016
      0

      Well, there was Willy Cartier.

  9. Nick Delmacy
    Nick Delmacy | September 23rd, 2016
    0
    SwagJack

    Well, there was Willy Cartier.

    Unconfirmed rumor debunked by the fact that Willy already had a girlfriend at the time of their supposed relationship.

  10. Dante
    Dante | September 23rd, 2016
    0
    Nick Delmacy

    As critical you are of bisexuals, this is surprising that you are giving him such a pass.

    On top of that, straight men and women are not so cryptic about their sexuality, especially the straight musicians. People like Prince may have played around with gender in appearance, but he was VERY clear on singing and talking about his love for women.

    Frank Ocean is not. I would argue that it was not "obviously CLEAR that he was not straight" before he posted that story on tumblr 4 years ago. On top of that, it was just a story. One that was very vague and could not be verified. Also, it was a pretty PG rated story. He didn't say he fell in love with a man and that they had kissed, made love or secretly dated. He said he fell in love with a dude who was his best friend, told him about it, got rejected, cried and nothing else happened. That could describe most heterosexual friendships when they separate for college or the military.

    Even if the story is true (which I believe it is), for a celebrity musician who is "obviously bisexual," the public has only been exposed to his hetero side, never his gay side.

    If they can dig up Hilary Clinton's emails, you mean to tell me that Frank Ocean is Gay/BI but NO ONE has a photo of him on a date with a dude or anything? I guess that's possible, but as far as his public persona, he's Gay/BI in name only.

    For a supposed "vulnerable musician," in his lyrics he's very closed lipped when it comes to that side of his sexuality…

    I am not critical of bisexuals. I am just not here for bullshyt. If it's blue, it is not orange; it is blue. And if blue and orange is combined, then it is purple. Be real about your sexuality or die.

    And "fell in love" is not a platonic term in the case of his confession in the letter. It is clear what that term means and its referring.

    Bottom line, we (and you) should not be so needy to want nor require (or serve a legal warrant) to know whether he likes meat, fish or both. It's about the music. f**k everything else!

  11. Nick Delmacy
    Nick Delmacy | September 23rd, 2016
    0
    Dante

    I am not critical of bisexuals. I am just not here for bullshyt. If it's blue, it is not orange; it is blue. And if blue and orange is combined, then it is purple. Be real about your sexuality or die.

    And "fell in love" is not a platonic term in the case of his confession in the letter. It is clear what that term means and its referring.

    Bottom line, we (and you) should not be so needy to want nor require (or serve a legal warrant) to know whether he likes meat, fish or both. It's about the music. f**k everything else!

    You contradicted yourself in the span of one sentence.

    [​IMG]

  12. Dante
    Dante | September 23rd, 2016
    0
    Nick Delmacy

    You contradicted yourself in the span of one sentence.

    [​IMG]

    Not even a little.

  13. SwagJack
    SwagJack | September 24th, 2016
    0
    Nick Delmacy

    Unconfirmed rumor debunked by the fact that Willy already had a girlfriend at the time of their supposed relationship.

    Never mattered much. Could be poly/ bi. Just sayin. Plus Frank doesn't seem like the type of dude who would confirm or deny it anyway, following your logic. Furthermore, do we have any photos/ confirmations of him being in a relationship/ dating with a woman?

  14. Nick Delmacy
    Nick Delmacy | September 24th, 2016
    0
    SwagJack

    Never mattered much. Could be poly/ bi. Just sayin. Plus Frank doesn't seem like the type of dude who would confirm or deny it anyway, following your logic. Furthermore, do we have any photos/ confirmations of him being in a relationship/ dating with a woman?

    Well you just reiterated what I've been saying: Frank Ocean's sexuality is still unknown and ambiguous…Unlike those of us on this website, including you.

    Look, I have no issue with FO being discreet and ambiguous…I just take issue when ppl claim him as a Gay or Bisexual representative when even he hasn't said that those labels actually apply to him. And for all we know, they don't. It could all just be performance art.

  15. SwagJack
    SwagJack | September 24th, 2016
    0

    The reiteration wasn't intentional. Doubt if it's performance art. It seems unlikely that a Black male artist operating largely within a heteronormative Black music realm would allude to having gay/ bisexual feelings simply as a marketing ploy (I'm sure there can be a side bar convo about Young Thug with regard to this). I just think Frank's the type of artist that prefers to set boundaries when it comes to disclosing info on his love life, which is nothing new. I don't know that I care what team Frank plays for. I like his art and that's all I really care about. But I understand how much his sexual identity (perceived or confirmed) probably means for other folks.

  16. Nick Delmacy
    Nick Delmacy | September 24th, 2016
    0
    SwagJack

    I don't know that I care what team Frank plays for. I like his art and that's all I really care about. But I understand how much his sexual identity (perceived or confirmed) probably means for other folks.

    I just love how everyone is giving Frank Ocean a pass simply because they like his music.

    And for the second time, you evaded the entire initial point I was making. He's ambiguous. Can you at least agree that he is ambiguous? You say that you don't care to know his sexuality. So at the very least admit that "yes Frank ocean is ambiguous sexually. Not openly gay or bisexual."

  17. SwagJack
    SwagJack | September 24th, 2016
    0
    Nick Delmacy

    I just love how everyone is giving Frank Ocean a pass simply because they like his music.

    And for the second time, you evaded the entire initial point I was making. He's ambiguous. Can you at least agree that he is ambiguous? You say that you don't care to know his sexuality. So at the very least admit that "yes Frank ocean is ambiguous sexually. Not openly gay or bisexual."

    Never felt like I was evading your point because I didn't know I had to reiterate a point that you said I'd already reiterated. I also mentioned that Frank is likely an artist that wants to set boundaries to what he wants to offer the public and how he offers it. Hard to give someone a pass on an issue that I don't really care too much about. I'm genuinely indifferent. He's ambiguous. I'm not disputing that. And his ambiguity is likely intentional. Maybe he doesn't like labels/ boxes. Plenty of folks now a days are the same. Some of them are likely visitors to/ members of this site. I'm fine with that.

  18. Noosphere | September 25th, 2016
    0

    Seriously tho the search is over — *this* is the guy. Bi or gay depending on who you ask.

    Kevin Abstract

    Tell me I’m wrong

  19. Noosphere | September 25th, 2016
    0

    He’s about to blow up. Same management as Frank (Frank since moved on) and Odd Future. Same production and co-writer team as Frank.

    Made the “best song (AND video) of the week” list on multiple music blogs.

    Plus HE himself directed one of the best fuckin videos of the year.

  20. Noosphere | September 25th, 2016
    0

    I’m the most annoyingly anal Frank Stan out there (regular posts on Reddit and KTT) so trust I’m triggered by the podcast. But I’m not gonna take the bait ..I’m gonna rise above it with Buddha Enlightenment shit like only Frank’s crying boys can.

    Except to say there are numerous references to his sexuality not least of which in the autobiographical Futura Free “you must not have got the memo [tumblr note] I don’t cut bitches no more”. Decisive. The case for the defence rests.

  21. alton
    alton | September 26th, 2016
    0
    Nick Delmacy

    You contradicted yourself in the span of one sentence.

    [​IMG]

    LMFAO!!! It took me a second to understand what this meme was referencing LMAO

  22. Tom Brown
    Tom Brown | September 26th, 2016
    0

    Frank Ocean is a very talented young man for his generation of fans. It should not matter if he sleeps with a woman, men or both.

  23. Nick Delmacy
    Nick Delmacy | September 26th, 2016
    0

    I think everyone is so caught up in their knee-jerk defending of Frank Ocean that they are missing the point I was making about his representation of sexuality. 100% of you would not be on this website if it were ambiguous. You're here because it is a site specifically aimed for, created by and featuring discussions relating to Gay and Bisexual Men. Not vague, fluid sexuality.

    Its cool that FO is discreet. My only point is that you can't have your cake and eat it too…You can't say that you are happy that FO is a successful openly gay artist, and in the same sentence say you don't know or care about his sexuality.

    That's like having a favorite priest who never talks about religion, never goes to church or places with other religious people and you don't really even know if he's a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or even Atheist for that matter. You just like the way he looks and talks about stuff, lol.

  24. alton
    alton | September 26th, 2016
    0
    Nick Delmacy

    I think everyone is so caught up in their knee-jerk defending of Frank Ocean that they are missing the point I was making about his representation of sexuality. 100% of you would not be on this website if it were ambiguous. You're here because it is a site specifically aimed for, created by and featuring discussions relating to Gay and Bisexual Men. Not vague, fluid sexuality.

    Its cool that FO is discreet. My only point is that you can't have your cake and eat it too…You can't say that you are happy that FO is a successful openly gay artist, and in the same sentence say you don't know or care about his sexuality.

    That's like having a favorite priest who never talks about religion, never goes to church or places with other religious people and you don't really even know if he's a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or even Atheist for that matter. You just like the way he looks and talks about stuff, lol.

    "I think everyone is so caught up in their knee-jerk defending of Frank Ocean that they are missing the point I was making about his representation of sexuality"

    This is the issue with most people when it comes to things they're passionate about, e.g. Religion, Celebrities, Vices, etc. The automatic response is to go on the defensive. LOL I used to be like this with certain celebs when I was much younger, 'til I had the reality check that these mo fo's {celebs} ain't payin' er' bill of mine so why am I goin so hard? They gonna be just fine with or without my "defense" so why waste my energy. Side note, maybe because I dont listen to hip hop nowadays but, is Frank Ocean really that big to warrant a "knee jerk" defense mode?

  25. Nick Delmacy
    Nick Delmacy | September 26th, 2016
    0
    alton

    is Frank Ocean really that big to warrant a "knee jerk" defense mode?

    I didn't even think to ask myself reasons why they have the knee-jerk reaction until you posted this response.

    I had to think, what is the difference between Frank Ocean, Don Lemon, Jason Collins, Michael Sam and Derrick Gordon, all black men who publicly "came out" around the same time…

    What is so different that the black gays kinda turned on all except Frank Ocean?

    The difference: The others all revealed and confirmed non-black lovers and boyfriends.

    I think that's it. The day Frank Ocean pulls out a non-black twink model boyfriend, that's the day they'll stop defending him.

  26. Dante
    Dante | September 26th, 2016
    0

    I just text Frank to ask him to give a press conference about his sexuality at the next Presidential debate. I'll let you know when he responds. This is an emergency, indeed.

  27. Nick Delmacy
    Nick Delmacy | September 26th, 2016
    0

    Frank Ocean in the Closet Be Like…

    media

  28. jusrawb
    jusrawb | September 27th, 2016
    0
    Nick Delmacy

    I didn't even think to ask myself reasons why they have the knee-jerk reaction until you posted this response.

    I had to think, what is the difference between Frank Ocean, Don Lemon, Jason Collins, Michael Sam and Derrick Gordon, all black men who publicly "came out" around the same time…

    What is so different that the black gays kinda turned on all except Frank Ocean?

    The difference: The others all revealed and confirmed non-black lovers and boyfriends.

    I think that's it. The day Frank Ocean pulls out a non-black twink model boyfriend, that's the day they'll stop defending him.

    I cant speak for everyone but that was not the case for me. I haven't turned on anyone, I said good for them all when they came out and went on about my life. Before they came out I didn't know or care for any of the people you named except Frank Ocean. By the way wasn't Frank Ocean rumored to have a non-black twink model boyfriend already ? I personally don't have a problem with interracial couples. I think my issue is your generalization of black gays since I am one that happens to be a fan of Frank. I just don't understand who are these people that is looking at Frank Ocean as a gay God and why does that bother you so much if you can clearly see Frank doesn't represent himself like that? He doesn't have to be what fans want him to be, if he want to make music for straight and gay fans and not exclusively gay fans I don't see the problem.

  29. ColumbusGuy
    ColumbusGuy | September 27th, 2016
    0
    Nick Delmacy

    I didn't even think to ask myself reasons why they have the knee-jerk reaction until you posted this response.

    I had to think, what is the difference between Frank Ocean, Don Lemon, Jason Collins, Michael Sam and Derrick Gordon, all black men who publicly "came out" around the same time…

    What is so different that the black gays kinda turned on all except Frank Ocean?

    The difference: The others all revealed and confirmed non-black lovers and boyfriends.

    I think that's it. The day Frank Ocean pulls out a non-black twink model boyfriend, that's the day they'll stop defending him.

    I just responded to the 'black gay comes out and has white boyfriend' thing in the Derrick Gordon thread, and I will admit that response was from my own perspective.

    But I will admit, if I was a young black gay man and all of these black gays who were coming out all seemed to have white boyfriends I probably would be a bit 'wtf' and all. Maybe it there was more of a spectrum of black with black, black with white, black with other, etc. then people might respond differently. But it all seems to be so(excuse the pun)'black and white'.??? I would hope I would not be saying 'Coon!' and 'Self-hater' and all, but as you younger guys say, I can see being a little salty.

    *see how I sucked up with including you as 'younger'? Wasn't is pathetically obvious! lol:franko1:

  30. Nick Delmacy
    Nick Delmacy | September 27th, 2016
    0
    ColumbusGuy

    I just responded to the 'black gay comes out and has white boyfriend' thing in the Derrick Gordon thread, and I will admit that response was from my own perspective.

    But I will admit, if I was a young black gay man and all of these black gays who were coming out all seemed to have white boyfriends I probably would be a bit 'wtf' and all. Maybe it there was more of a spectrum of black with black, black with white, black with other, etc. then people might respond differently. But it all seems to be so(excuse the pun)'black and white'.??? I would hope I would not be saying 'Coon!' and 'Self-hater' and all, but as you younger guys say, I can see being a little salty.

    *see how I sucked up with including you as 'younger'? Wasn't is pathetically obvious! lol:franko1:

    Yeah I appreciate your empathy for Black gay people wanting to see more examples of Black gay relationships…but the observation that I've tried to make repeatedly is that these examples already exist, ppl just seem to ignore them and focus on the interracial couples.

    1. I wrote a successful viral article about this: These 14 Popular Black Gay Couples Shut Down All Bitter Black Gay Critics of Interracial Relationships

    2. Many more examples have cropped up since I wrote that article.

    3. Social media Gaylebrity Black couples have multiplied tenfold

    4. This website always discusses black gay love and couples, even featuring podcast interviews

    5. Most movies, network television shows and web series that feature black gay men show them dating other black gay men, not white men.

    So I just don't understand where all the interracial resentment stems from (besides jealousy) just because a handful of Black Gay Celebs are dating/married to white guys.

    For the record, I think Frank Ocean is likely Bisexual (60/40 – gay/str8)…but if we got confirmation that he was dating a beautiful white twink, I would be happy for him.

  31. ColumbusGuy
    ColumbusGuy | September 27th, 2016
    0

    ^^I think the ones who date the whites have greater visibility and are more widely known and that is a big part of the problem. *People*(in a general sense, the masses) have often heard of Michael Sam, Don Lemon, Jason Collins, etc. even if they do not know they are/were dating whites, even if they did not know they were gay. What black gay guy with another black gay guy has that kind of general visibility though?

    Which of these black gay guys with black gay guys has been on the cover of Time magazine?

  32. Nick Delmacy
    Nick Delmacy | September 27th, 2016
    0
    ColumbusGuy

    ^^I think the ones who date the whites have greater visibility and are more widely known and that is a big part of the problem. *People*(in a general sense, the masses) have often heard of Michael Sam, Don Lemon, Jason Collins, etc. even if they do not know they are/were dating whites, even if they did not know they were gay. What black gay guy with another black gay guy has that kind of general visibility though?

    Which of these black gay guys with black gay guys has been on the cover of Time magazine?

    Not to be argumentative, but its not like we even see these black gay men with visibility with their white boyfriends that often. When I wrote that article posted above, I had to search HARD for photos of Jason Collins, Don Lemon and others with their boyfriends. I can see if they were like Musicians who blast their relationships all over People Magazine and Entertainment Tonight, these guys are the opposite.

    Anyway, I do get the point you are making though. I just don't see how/why its a big deal when there are only so many gay openly gay men available to date (census says its around 3-6% of the total population). If anything, the men open to dating outside their race are smart because it gives them more dating options, IMO.

  33. ColumbusGuy
    ColumbusGuy | September 27th, 2016
    0
    Nick Delmacy

    Not to be argumentative, but its not like we even see these black gay men with visibility with their white boyfriends that often. When I wrote that article posted above, I had to search HARD for photos of Jason Collins, Don Lemon and others with their boyfriends. I can see if they were like Musicians who blast their relationships all over People Magazine and Entertainment Tonight, these guys are the opposite.

    Anyway, I do get the point you are making though. I just don't see how/why its a big deal when there are only so many gay openly gay men available to date (census says its around 3-6% of the total population). If anything, the men open to dating outside their race are smart because it gives them more dating options, IMO.

    yeah I am just saying I can see why they may be a little 'offput' that is all.

    *and damnit I was on here and had my Just for Men coloring on my goatee(just to make it salt and pepper to match the hair)and left it on too damn long and now I have a black goatee!!! which looks stupid as hell. smh. I blame this site! lol

  34. Nicholan
    Nicholan | February 16th, 2017
    0

    Nick, after listening to this Podcast episode it seems like you contradict yourself a lot. Nothing that anyone can do, will satisfy you lol. You’re a very particular type of guy, I get it.

    One minute you are going IN about how so many dudes are “TOO gay,” but on this episode you basically have a problem with Frank Ocean not being “GAY ENOUGH.”

    Like wth…lol

    It was good hearing from Last-O in this podcast. I will say that I sided with him on most of the debates. Being that he’s an artist himself, and an artist who really takes his craft seriously, his perspective is a lot more open and understanding–in my opinion.

    All in all, good episode!




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