As promised, I’ll be dropping more quick and dirty podcasts (10-15 mins in length) via the Cypher Avenue site and also on the Octavius Williams YouTube channel.
In this 10 minute installment, I talk about self-identifying fem or “In Between” gay men who don’t identify or subscribe to stereotypical Gay Culture. Give it a quick listen and be sure to ‘Like’, ‘Subscribe’, and share your thoughts.
Much Appreciations,
Ocky Williams
@hannibal @cuspofbeauty
Thoughts?
I'll listen to it today
Cypher Avenue is insidiously becoming a website about camp guys. People seem to be obsessed with them in these parts.
This isn't about that though.
I agree with you that more voices need to speak up but as I personally know speaking up especially to an established voices is not easy I know this because it has taken me years to start speaking out and I am still not comfortable with it I believe over time it will work out.
To fem gatekeepers middle men are self-loathers who put up a good front. Middle men to them co-sign straight disgust with fem presenting men. Middle men have privilege of acceptance in some straight circles to openly identify as same gender loving but masculine. And to those fem gatekeepers you don’t need their subculture spaces to validate you since you get it from the real world. But often times they forget that being gay is an automatic deduction of manhood points in the straight community. And there isn’t a haven for middle men to feel wholly validated. Hence there’s no push back from them to fem gatekeepers for the safe spaces they created long ago for themselves.
I guess another way to say it is that people like boxes. Boxes that they dont fit but for other people sake they conform to fit and judge others for not fitting in their boxes. The truth is everone is an individual with their own mannerisms and whatnot .
I like being an inbetween fem gay man. I feel like we have more fun. queenie gays hang with queenie gays and masculine men only roll with each other. we can hang with both.
I have never really had a problem with effeminate gay men. I have had a problem with what you would call 'messy' gay men. And they come in both femme, masc, and inbetween forms. The stereotype of a 'messy' gay is flamboyant, out there, over-the-top, full of stereotypical mannerisms and speech, etc. But there are masc gay men who are just as 'messy'-they just express it more behind the scenes or in masculine or 'hypermasculine' ways-but the end results are still the same-backstabbing, gossiping, tearing others down, causing problems, etc. The femme gays get the blame for all of it just because the ones who are the messy are more visibly messy.
You know to stay away from the femme 'messy' gays..but the masc or inbetween 'messy' gays are not so easy to spot and are more of a problem really-you don't see it coming.
And yeah, the open and loud messy gays are more in control, because they are loud and messy, and nobody wants to speak out about it and if they do, they get 'dragged and read' because the ones who disagree(both femme, masc, and inbetween) do not want to get dragged and read themselves.
Nothing will change until the non-messy are willing to be bolder and speak out and are willing to face the wrath without wilting like dying flowers, and this goes for all spectrums among gays.
How does the "inbetween" works? I ask because I know I've seen some straight dudes show "fem characteristics" from rolling their eyes, poppin their gums, stick their tongue out real wild eating a bag of Doritos, etc. I wonder if there os a such thing as being an inbetween fem straight. Curious…ijs
I know there are absolutely numerous white straight guys who are like this….you are kind of surprised that they are not gay lol. One of the black gay guys I dated was kind of inbetween- or maybe just not 'hard' or anything and not doing stereotypical gay stuff. I have casually known some straight black men(as in at work) who seemed kind of 'suspect' but apparently they were straight(apparently lol).
Also can anyone gay or straight be both 'inbetween' and 'fem'? Hmmm….
I just read your about; so you advocate for your own queerness by trying to distance yourself from the “stereotypical”? Do you even realize that the culture you seem to be disdainful of has its own right within the community? I can already anticipate the discussions going on around here.
And no, I’m not a “fem”, like that should even matter.
I don't think they are talking about female guys not having a right . I think it's more about that fem guys are not the only type of gay person though they are perpetuated as the only type that exists. further even within fem community their are some who don't fit the exact mold that is portrayed. so defineing one.type of.gay excludes the others.
Similar. to saying there is one type of "black movie " the typical soul food movie. when there is more layers and different types of living black aka moonlight
That look like a light skinned version of me (with glasses) when I was a teenager.
I don't understand what constitutes as masculine, feminine, or in between, I don't understand any of this shyt anymore.