This is an excerpt from a draft of this article…
But what about the gay man who are hyper masculine? Is he like this because he is afraid of being called gay or fag? Is he like this because hyper masculinity is more attractive and appealing within the gay community? Is he like this because of personal insecurities?
LOL. Does hyper masculinity exist within the gay community? Of course it does; however (sorry for laughing) I’m thinking REAL hard to the last time I’ve come across a hyper masculine gay man. I’m sure they exist but it’s been well over 7 years since I came across one. I have been called hyper masculine or “aggressively” masculine (whatever the hell that means) but I know I’m just a regular masculine guy.
It seems like when a conversation about masculinity and femininity takes place within the gay community, it always exists within two extremes. For many masculine men we think of the Ultra Effeminate man and for many effeminate men they think of the Hyper Masculine man.
I stopped to pause and acknowledge what I just typed. I’ve been called and labeled hyper masculine. I was bothered by this revelation and acknowledgement and begin to reflect on the many times I have been called hyper masculine by gays within the last three years. I called my partner to pick his brain on whether or not hyper masculine is a fitting description of me.
His short answer was yes, “you can be perceived as hyper masculine”. He mentioned my natural scowl, the lines and wrinkles that exists from my eyebrow ridge up though my forehead, my overall facial expressions, how loud, assertive, aggressive and domineering I can get during conversations and in addition to my love of violent video games, TV shows, aggressive sports and movies. The lists went on and on. He also admitted how we both (him and I) can walk with our chests (if you don’t understand the reference then…).
As he proceeded with his explanations, I could feel myself getting defensive and zoning out. “Me, hyper masculine? Get the hell outta here; really? When? Say what now?”
I know he and I talked about being Alpha Males during our relationship podcast and I thought, “does this equate to hyper masculinity”?
Being that I was now in a defensive and antagonistic mindset, mentally, I began to rapidly examine my partner’s actions and demeanor. Humph, this dude drips masculine confidence to the point he leaves wet foot prints behind when he walks. His tone, demeanor, body language and aura no doubt states, “I’m a man, I know it and come test me”.
Enough of this; with a side eye and continued defensive stance I’d heard enough. Let me call my friend Nick Delmacy and pick his brain. Maybe through some form of friendship psychic osmosis, he will give me the answers or feedback I want and need to hear…Nope. This jerk basically said the same things. He added how certain actions and mannerisms he has committed, have also lead to him being called or perceived as hyper masculine. Wow. My main support systems have the same perceptions of me. These aren’t “passers-by” on the street perceptions. These are real, first hand perceptions from my partner, my friend and business partner. Those bastards.
What the hell was wrong with me? Why am I so uncomfortable and defensive about being labeled hyper masculine? I feel like I know and seen real hyper masculinity. As a black man in my mind it equates to the thugs, gang members, pimps, prison convicts and the bravado that exists within the majority of rap videos. That’s not me but I think I’m stating to get it.
My initial reactions are due to my mental baggage and perceptions as it relates to the term “Hyper Masculine”. These were my negative perceptions of what hyper masculinity is because by psychological definition, it’s a negative exaggerated male stereotypical behavior, in addition to what the world’s version of what hyper masculinity is; sexual aggression, behavioral aggression and abuse towards women and gays. Ok, Got it…but how again does this apply to me? I’m none of these things.
In the past, I’ve gotten drunk and “cried like a lil bitch” over nothing and will probably do it again. At the same time I can be quick to assert my dominance and establish control as Alphas sometimes do but Alphas should also know when to adjust and fall back. I know me. I have a beautiful spirit, in addition to my un-quivering loyalty and honesty. My ethics and attributes are stellar all the while attempting to be a master chef in the kitchen. I take pride in these attributes just as I do my maleness and masculinity. Together they help make up the totality of who I am.
My personality in conjunction with some of the regular masculine or traditionally male behaviors that I possess, within this overly sensitive day and age, can be viewed as “hyper masculine”. So what…that’s not my problem. Again, I know me and I’m a sweetheart. I don’t want anyone to exist under the boot of oppression or discrimination. Nor do I want those who are different to be cast out.
So why not become empowered and view my “hyper masculine” characteristics as positive attributes to add to my repertoire? Oh I’m empowered!
I recognize that I have been influenced by the definitions and perceptions of hyper masculinity that are housed by others. The descriptions from my partner and friend are spot on; why shy away from them? It’s who I am and I’m good with that. I’m good with being aggressive, loud, domineering and assertive. I’m cool with my cave man like scowl and swag as I bipedally glide to and fro. Yes some of this may be as a result of my upbringing and environment; however what about the instinctual innate sum of parts that exists simple due to my biological masculine interests? I bathe in its richness and I’m satisfied that maybe it’s how I’m supposed to be. Maybe I was born this way.
Currently, just ordinary masculinity is viewed as a societal evolutionary hindrance that hastily needs to become extent. I’m tired of masculinity being treated as an affliction that needs to be eradicated so gender lines can be blurred to make the meek comfortable. In my opinion this is the cry of feminists’ centric thinking and attitudes.
Just for a quick example, depending on the context, when I hear “man up” in my mind it doesn’t necessarily equate to a man not having emotions and feelings, it means having more control over your emotions and feelings. I think this simple angle in thought and language interpretation is something feminist and many effeminate gay men can’t conceptualize. It may not exist within a feminist or effeminate train of thought.
There are elements of right and wrong or good and bad in everything. The examples that I gave above (gang members, convicts, etc.) show that hyper masculinity can embody many negative attributes; nonetheless very few of the negative attributes apply to me. I refuse to dim my masculine or hyper masculine light in order to make others shine or feel comfortable.
If throwing a “middle finger up”, is a display of hyper masculinity when getting ready to take a photo, well then, I’m going to say cheese.
Oh God not again. I’m not sure I get this lovely, hyper-masculine rant. If you’ve been told this for 3 years now, why are you shocked that your partner and best friend would agree? If I’m being intellectually honest, I know what you’re getting at but I really think it’s just a gay thing. I honestly never hear this term, “hyper-masculine” used amongst straight men. I’ve heard aggressive, mean, surly and even asshole but never hyper-masculine. I’ve met many aggressive/domineering women who scowl. What term would we use for them. Hyper-feminine? It just doesn’t compute for me. Can’t call them butch or man-like because that refers to them being lesbian. What you’re describing @Ocky is your natural personality which I’m sure would be the same if you were straight. Sure it might intimidate some women and a few men even, but I don’t see you as hyper anything. I just see you as Ocky. I don’t know if you even understand that but you alright. LOL
I think you co-signed on my point/s in your comment. However I think you need to understand that others (non-followers and new followers) may not understand your or my POV. This medium exists to share our POV with them. Being that masculine gay men are marginalized and reduced to equal D.L. it will be a while before we have the luxury of saying “Oh God Not Again”.
Yeah. @Ocky. That comment came off a little flippant but not the way I intended it. I thought about it after I wrote it and I just had a couple of thoughts/questions popped in my head. I went back and reread @Nick‘s article “In Defense of Hyper-masculinity.” I know you guys think it’s going the way of the beeper, but I just realized that I don’t think many people have a problem with it, including women or I should say black women. When I talk to black women at my job, friends, family etc., they abhor any man that may be considered weak or delicate or dare I say, homosexual. I think black women like a man’s man so to speak. With that being said, I don’t think they like for that man’s man to be as aggressive with them as he would be with his boys. I remember my sister told me one time that she dated a guy who was embarrassed to go to the bathroom when she was around and that turned her off. Reason being, she felt that normal men don’t really care about things like that and I understood where she was coming from. So…all this typing leads up to this. I’m not trying to equate effeminate men to women but do you think when effeminate men complain about this hyper-masculinity, they’re essentially doing the same things as some women in saying I like masculine sexually, but don’t disrespect me or scream at me or be too rough with me. Thus the many effeminate men who like masculine men but complain about them at the same time?
You are such a “boy”,… “why do you always look like you ready to fight somebody?”…”you walk like you about to football tackle somebody?”…These are things I hear all the time from gay men, and my physique doesn’t make it any better. I guess they expect you skip like a giddy school girl, and have a cool-aid smile on your face all the time. Even though the thoughts and views of this article, has been echoed plenty a time on this site, it never gets old to me because it rings soo much truth to my life. Gay men, even the masculine, ones are intimidated by this. I understand why but at the same time I be thinking damn, you got that much bitchness in you afraid to say hello? Never thought of myself as hyper masculine either but I am pretty sure people view me that way…Lol SMDH
@LEE B Does it bother you that they say these things? Maybe I’m not sure what the issue is lol. Do you feel like it hinders you in some way when it comes to operating with other men?
@achris It doesn’t bother me at all. Sometimes it’s said as a compliment and sometimes gay men say that because they don’t see it often, at least without it being a front, then when they realize I like men, they don’t know how to take it. It’s almost as if they want me to be less masculine so that they will feel more comfortable around me. I can’t help the person I naturally am and I won’t tone it down just to make insecure gay men feel more comfortable around me. I recently tagged along to a house party with a friend and I chatted it up with a few kats. I have seen a few of them in the grocery store or the gym and all of them said that I just don’t look approachable, yet they have wanted to speak when ever they would see me. When I left the party my homie gets texts from a few guys in the party asking why he didn’t introduce me to them. He told them they should have just spoken to me. They all said they just didn’t know how to come at me. And this was at a all gay house party lol. It doesn’t hinder me though. It actually hinders them from getting to know someone that they actually want to get to know…. But it can/has caused me to bump heads, with the very masculine males I have been in relationships with. That issue eventually worked itself out when we both realize that there is a give and take when it comes to dealing with another aggressive, strong minded, dominant, intelligent masculine gay man.
Hmmm…this here may be my favorite comment of the week.
Mmmm ok I get it. I have definitely gotten some of those same comments before (aggressive, unapproachable, opinionated, strong-minded, etc.) but I would not consider myself hyper-masculine at all. I think I’m pretty regular actually but those things are just PART of my personality. I guess maybe I have a different idea of what hyper-masculinity is. Ive met some guys who claim to be alpha males, but I have had to start things up with them (which is fine) because they said they were more on the shy side or didn’t want to get rejected (can someone be shy and hyper-masculine?). I don’t know, I just think its an individual thing and its all so subjective, but I see where you are coming from.
That is somewhat the point of the article. I never considered myself hyper masculine either and IMO it’s a term that is over used by many. However if I’m going to be perceived that way, why not embrace it and make it my own.
Btw, I am not an alpha male, but I do go after the things I want in all areas of my life. I find it kind of funny when guys say they were scared to approach me (or others I know) or use some wack pick up line instead of just starting a regular convo then they say “oh, I’m a traditional male and I like to lead…” and ish like that. Its kind of funny to me (although I don’t hold it against them) but it just adds to alot of my questions on the idea of alot of these topics.
I feel your pain. I too have been accused of being hyper masculine.
Lol I sense so much sarcasm in this comment lol.
Gay is Gay….
Gotcha but what does that have to do with this article?
I honestly don’t think there’s such a thing as being “hyper masculine”. If anything, and even though I don’t know you on a personal level, I’d peg you to be simply an alpha male/”masculine”. The word hyper would make me think that you walk up and down the street beating your chest cave-man style proudly proclaiming your manhood to any/everyone with 2 ears.
A part of your post really intrigued me; it’s when you said “Just for a quick example, depending on the context, when I hear “man up” in my mind it doesn’t necessarily equate to a man not having emotions and feelings, it means having more control over your emotions and feelings. I think this simple angle in thought and language interpretation is something feminist and many effeminate gay men can’t conceptualize. It may not exist within a feminist or effeminate train of thought.” I respectfully disagree with that notion. I think for all black men who are gay, when they hear the phrase man up, they flashback to their younger days when that phrase was thrown at them, 9 times out of 10, it was equated with them appearing “weak” and the black community loves associating someone in tune with their emotions/feelings being weak and in turn, them being gay (sadly). In the grander scheme of things, I think that’s the root issue of homophobia (mainly black homophobia) but that’s another topic for another day.
Other that that, this was a really insightful post; good job Ocky!
I have to disagree with you. Ocky makes a good point about the expectation that men should be in control of their emotions. Back in the day there was no debate about this. It’s feminist thought that has comprised what for a long time was accepted view of masculinity. All boys especially if you’re of certain generation have been displined by their fathers, uncles, coaches or older males to get a hold on their emotions, to stop bitching and “man up”. My father and my uncle did this with me when I was a boy and I’m glad they did. It toughened me up. The world is a harsh and unforgiving place to men especially black men. The best way to survive it is to have inner strength and be in control of yourself. I still remember my uncle saying “nobody gives a fuck about your feelings but you”. He is right. It may be brutal but that is how the world works. Like it or not men are still more accountable and treated more harshly by society than women. That has nothing to do with homophobia.
Also to clarify my point…for me, having more control over your emotions doesn’t mean you can’t be emotional or you can’t cry.
Good article! I like your story and as always keep it up @ocky.
I have gotten that I don’t look approachable until I got into college. People always compared me to my identical twin brother. They said he was the “nice twin” or the “good twin” and that I was the “evil twin”. LOL. As a masculine guy, I just learned to smile more and now people approach me now more than they ever have. I am glad that people approach me now for friendship but I wonder when the day will come for relationship. Maybe I have to be the aggressor. My twin says that he sees me as the more domineering twin so maybe I will have to play that role.
Honestly even after reading this article I still don’t quite know what “Hyper-Masculinity” means. To me it just seems like another word for “masculine.”
In the gay world people are only interested in portraying/acknowledging extremes; you’re either extremely effeminate or extremely masculine.
When it’s cut and dry like that it’s easy to label and identify you but as most readers on here know there’s a whole lot in between those extremes.
The “problem,” if you will, as I see it is that being masculine means different things to different people. The best comparison I can give is with religion; when someone asks you do you believe in God they’re not asking you if you believe in a higher power, they’re really asking you “do you believe in my interpretation of God?” The same thing goes for being asked are you masculine, that person is asking are you their interpretation of masculinity…how can you possibly answer that when masculinity seems to be some abstract concept?
We’ve all come across effeminate men that have defined themselves as masculine, and I’m sure a lot of times those guys are just flat out lying but there’s also a lot of men out there that genuinely believe this about themselves but because they aren’t “extreme” or “hyper” with it or they don’t meet whoever’s definition of masculinity they’re dismissed.
This is a delicate topic in the gay community. When I wrote this “Real Men Don’t Cry: A Defense of Hyper Masculinity” essay on Discreet City it got similar eye-rolls from effeminate and/or semi-masculine dudes. (http://cypheravenue.com/real-men-dont-cry-a-defense-of-hyper-masculinity/)
I wouldn’t call myself hyper-masculine but I def feel that I have hyper-masculine interests. I’m not the biggest sports or car fan, but I love macho centric media like testosterone filled action movies and gangster rap music. I can’t stomach romantic comedies, I don’t care about celeb gossip and I have the fashion sense of a troglodyte.
Does that make me hyper-masculine…or just masculine? Probably both.
I think guys like myself and Ocky would be viewed as just regular masculine guys in the Heterosexual community but when it comes to Homosexuals, our aggressiveness, interests and attitudes can come of as being a little hyper-masculine…which for many gays implies that we’re overcompensating or trying to hard to distance ourselves from the rest of them.
If that were the case, we’d really be going hard with opinions against fems and the flamboyant gay community as a whole, not giving a fuck about who we offended. But that’s not the case. We’re just GENUINELY not into mainstream gay culture or the interests mostly shared by women. There is not some super repressed part of us that deep down really WANTS to like all that but we can’t because we don’t want to be viewed as “gay.”
As for Ocky’s essay, I agree that “masculine” is a dirty word in the gay community, sometimes for good reason. But its a necessary descriptor in a community of same sex men who are actually VERY different from one another when it comes to masculinity and femininity and the inbetween.
It took me a long time to decide exactly what I wanted to say (and I’m still not totally sure I’m 100% of the way there), but here goes…
I think the thing that bothers me (and many more of us who aren’t exactly “hypermasculine”) about the article is the idea that you appear to be proud of something that you admittedly have not worked to obtain, almost to the inference of degradation of those who don’t meet that standard.
It is my true belief that you don’t intend to offend, nor do I believe that you even intended that reception of your article in the first place.
While I’m sure you can’t relate to this example because you are so “hypermasculine,” it reminds me of America’s Next Top Model when Tyra is talking about how great the winner is, even though she isn’t exactly saying that these are qualities the runner-up does NOT possess…but it could definitely be taken that way…lol #my2cents
I fail to see how your behavior as you described it in the article qualifies as “hyper masculine”. Often time I find that gay men especially of the softer variety can be such whinny bitches. They tend to call gay men who exhibit typical male behavior as hyper masculine when they are just simply masculine. The problem is as I see it is they have bought into the notion that gay men as a whole are supposed to be “quasi women” so anytime one shows regular male characteristics like Being less emotional, more dominant, forceful, enjoying violent video games and movies, sports, automobiles and motorcycles, firearms etc. they get hit with the hyper masculine designation. But even if one is hyper masculine, so what? This is really not about you I believe it’s more about them. I’d be willing to bet real money that those who through around the hyper masculine label feel either threatened, inferior, resentful or all of the above. I say fuck ’em.
“Hyper masculine” seems to imply that it’s a façade or, as touched on, the person is going above and beyond in one area to cover up a weakness in another. My thought process, though, is whatever happened to people being individuals meaning we would fall on all ends of the spectrum and not be slightly different versions of the exact same person with the exact same qualities?
I think it’s cool to be gay (or same gender loving for those that prefer that wording) and to have all different types of people fall under that umbrella from Elton John to the NFL hopeful who just recently came out. I have some rough and tumble brothers, uncles, and a father who are about as masculine as they come, and I’ve never heard anyone call them hyper masculine or point out that they weren’t being authentic? Are we trying to say that a man who is attracted to other men have to fit some form of mold? Would that make us more unified?
Personally, I’m glad to see the extremes because it gives us more color and variety. I’m attracted to men, masculine men, so I personally love when a guy isn’t defined by being gay and can still be a man even though he likes men. However, that isn’t to take away from those of us (including myself) that may not be as masculine as say an Ocky is.
My advise as it relates to who we are as individual gay people is to be you, whatever that is and let others be themselves as well. Masculine, feminine, and in between, and be glad for the variety
This is an interesting topic. While I’ve never heard the term “hyper-masculine” in str8 or gay terminology, I’ve been told repeatedly that “you dont look gay”, “you look like you wanna fight someone”, “you always look pissed off, unapproachable” blah blah blah. Trust, I have NO prob with any of this because it’s not something I can really do s@#$t about, it’s just my natural look/personality. I WANT to say I’m the nicest person in the world and la la la, but truth is I can really be an a$$hole at times. I have a short temper; I don’t fight but only because I don’t wanna get locked up. I can be a smart-ass, I’m cynical/sarcastic, but most of these traits were actually acquired from dealing with dumb a$$ dudes over the years. The ONLY setback I have with my personality, and this topic was addressed in another article on here, is that it’s (for me) very difficult to meet another regular, “everyday” type guy. Not only because it’s hard for dudes to read me (and me them), but I personally think a lot of supposedly masculine (blk & latino) dudes that claim they want another masculine dude, are subconsciously intimidated by said masculinity and tend to go for “less threatening” effeminate men. Not ALL, just SOME/most. I’ve even been told by some friends to “act more feminine”. I refuse, LOL I feel I have some effeminate traits, majority of gay guys have SOMETHING effeminate about them, just most of us our regular personality/demeanor overshadows it