I’m putting this video out there to spark reflection, male self-awareness and discussion. In no way am I attempting to condone or promote the traditions of this tribal culture or pass any judgments, I’m just putting it out there. I believe this video was recorded in the early to mid 1970’s.
Even though times have vastly changed in many parts of PNG due to Christian influences, from my readings, the traditional male initiation rituals of tribal Papua New Guinea center on ushering boys into manhood. Ingestion of breast milk is replaced by ingestion of semen. The logic behind this is that breast milk comes from a woman, therefore feminizing a male if ingested for too long and weakening him. Being that semen comes from a man and considered the “Life Force”, ingesting it will cause a male to be more masculine and strong. This video displays a particular adult male bonding ritual in which semen is applied upon the face and skin.
So here is what I would hope the take away and discussion can lean towards; Papua New Guinea’s tribal or rural societies from the outside looking in is one that we would consider an open male homosexual society. What we have defined as “homosexual” is the norm. Do you think this is a good thing or bad thing?
Outside of the context of this video, traditional male initiations (as it relates to a ceremony or ritual transitioning young males into adult manhood, facilitated by male elders) are virtually non-existent in western societies and cultures. Some examples of traditional male initiations would be true male circumcision rituals (around puberty) or hunting and survival rituals. Could this be a reason or play a part as to why many males do not embody the role of protectors and providers; due to a lack of elder male mentors and rights of passage in many communities? Is this a possible reason that boys and young males are more feminized?
Feel free to share your thoughts concerning my inquiries or anything you feel will add to the conversation.
OckyDub
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Manhood…effeminzation…lol. You almost sound like Afrocentric heterosexuals who say the reason there are so many gay black men is because of single mothers and “effeminzation”. The reason why you are seeing more “effeminized” black males is because black men have slaughtered each other, gone to prison, or left thus leaving many of these boys to be raised by unscrupulous hood-heifers that are commonly referred to as strong black women, thus taking on their characteristics. This is not across many communities, it is mainly the black community making issue of this. I’ve seen single moms of all races raising successful “masculine” sons, the issue seems to be black women not raising “manly” sons.
This +1000. But I wouldn’t just say ‘hood’ women. I’d say all women. I knew of this women-lovely one-who when travelling in South America had a one night stand with the guy, lied about being on contraceptives and got pregnant. She of course will never tell this man and was desperate to be a Mum before her mid thirties.
The kid is a boy. Will she seek out a male mentor? Or uncle because it’s important that a boy a positive male influence? Nope. She will proudly and selfishly do it by herself,suffocating him with her love and ‘wetness’.
If he is straight, he will grow up appreciating his female mate but no doubt will seek only women like his mother who take control. If he is gay, he will do the same but want to ‘be’ like his mother, whom he will feel he has more in common with because they both seek a male mate. Therefore completely showing no interest in the ‘protector and assertive’ male traits but in the more womanly traits.
That’s the biggest issue. White OR black. Poor or Rich. Hood or Middle class.
He will fear men who are seen to ‘manly’, just like his sole provider.
if you are saying that a boy who is raised by his mom solely becomes softer in life then i would say your an idiot. i know tons of guys raised by their strong masculine dads who have ended up softer than a flower and ive seen many upon many men who are raised by mothers being very masculine and well disciplined. your sample for your theories come from “i once knew someone” thats as dumb as saying that your going to rely on just nature to know when there is a tornado on the way.
OK, maybe it’s been entirely too long for me, but something about this whole concept is not only beautiful, but somewhat arousing (just bein’ real, y’all). Of course, the primitiveness & probable hygiene differences do NOT appeal to me, but the unity, openness and passion for “connecting” with each other left me with an increased desire to seek residence in another culture with less hangups, taboos & bigotry. Am I to sensitive, crazy or just horny?
Man…I completely feel and understand what you are saying. I do feel non-sexual male bonding and intimacy is missing from today’s gay and black gay communities.
Thanx, Ocky. I was hoping the message came across successfully, in spite of my overtones of sexual deprivation.
Can you offer a suggestion on how to do that and what that would consist of?
I have heard stories of some ‘male retreats’ that end up decaying into hook up parties.
I wish I knew the magic words to say, so I wouldn’t spend so many evenings watching DVDs alone. Like you mentioned, many “mixers” turn into hookup parties (and this extra shy person ends up NOT hooked up). The gatherings that don’t become orgies end up as ‘shade-fests’, where everyone sits around snapping, reading each other and calling each other “BITCH!”. In my olde age, I’ve developed a verrry low tolerance for l’Queenery’… it’s funny for about a minute, then… Please get offa my last nerve!
Amen!
That is so sad. I’m going to be real. I would expect at a mixer/retreat that guys would exchange numbers but I’d think the hooking up could wait until later. However, this is exactly why I’d pass if someone told me about a retreat. I’m just too jaded and skeptical.
I think I’d be better off trying to get non sexual male bonding by joining a straight bowling or rugby team. Something like that. At least that way I don’t have to worry about things becoming a roundabout way to sexual advances or Bey V. Rhi debate.
I share your desire DSnDallas. Male bonding beyond sex is something I seek as well. It is difficult to find among my SGM and hetero brothers.
It’s an interesting video and show the variety of human cultures. I think that the video said that most men eventually mate and marry women. It shows that there is no need for a man in that culture to be DL. “Homosexuality” is treated as natural.
I read about this tribe in Papua New Guinea and their custom of having young men ingest the semen of elder tribesmen, as it is believed that the semen of the elders provide youth with the wisdom that they need to become adult men. I read this article as part of the dozens of articles I had to read for a philosophy course I took as an undergraduate student. I remember reading this article late, late night after a particularly long day. I was so exhausted that I had to read the article TWICE to be sure I was indeed reading what I thought I was reading because I thought my eyes (or brain) were deceiving me. I couldn’t believe what I was reading. I was shocked to hear about this custom, and it did make for interesting conversation between myself and my other classmates.
Based on what I remember reading there is something significant I want to point out. This really cannot be classified as homosexuality per se, because this tribe is indeed AGAINST the practice of homosexuality as we know it in the western world. It should be noted that this tribe FORBADE two young men engaging in homosexual activity and exchanging semen as it was thought to “rob” each of the participants of their budding wisdom and manhood. Based on what I read, the tribe was against the practice of homosexuality and same-sex attraction as they still promoted heterosexuality and procreated with women. Having said that, it really is just a ritual with possible spiritual and religious roots, but there is no sexual intent in this ritual.
Yea, I immediately distinguished the difference between this and homosexuality. Once they pass the ‘ritual age’ or whatever, they’re gonna end up w a bunch of wives n babies.
Not fully true. Within some tribes the men and women still live in the same village but sleep separately and only sleep together to reproduce. The men sleep together in the Men’s House even though they have wives and children.
When the boys finally become men, they move into the Men’s House.
But is that the case with THIS tribe? And even if what you are saying is true about men and women sleeping in separate quarters, does that really constitute homosexuality to you?
Interesting…
But do they be smashing in the men’s house?!?! Lemme stop playin
It’s interesting, this is a good example of how parameters of sexuality are very different across different cultures. There’s nothing inherently homosexual (or sexual) about what they’re doing, but if you told the average male (at least in the U.S.) about it they would swear they’re all gay. Like another commenter mentioned, most of these boys will grow up to take girlfriends and wives.
Observing and judging this ritual from our perspective does bring up issues of homosexuality and heterosexuality. However, I don’t believe that these labels truly apply here. If homosexual activity were allowed outside of this ritual, then the hetero/homo labels might apply. The single-sex living quarters suggest rather rigid norms. Perhaps it could also be a cultural survival mechanism because the elders are best equipped to pass on notions of manhood and womanhood, particularly within an immersive environment. The fact that there are clear patterns of heterosexual activity for the purposes of procreation and some degree of shared parenting, these seem to be cultural norms that go beyond a sexual context.
So reading this article was quite interesting and it does show that perception is everything. And In response to Jamie’s comment, I think black men being feminized while it may have something to do with being raised in a single mothered household, I also believe it’s based on the child’s perceptions of things. The other day I was watching rich kids of Beverly Hills, where EJ (Earvin Johnson Jr. a.k.a Magic Johnsons’s son) is overly effeminate, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it, in fact, I find him hilarious at times. And he was raised by both his parents, who I presume are still married to this day.
Also I think there’s a perception on masculinity. Like something tells me the writers of Cypher Avenue (Nick and Ocky, which I have so much respect for you guys so please don’t go in on me. lol) But it is my assumption that they probably would not regard all the guys from the webseries Freefall as masculine, when indeed I do. And sometimes I feel that unless a guy is so hypermasculine or kind of “thuggish”, they won’t regard them as masculine. And I’m not saying that’s what it is, but that’s sometimes how it seems to me. However, do know that I understand their viewpoints along with the many others presented. I hope Nick and Ocky don’t go in on me for that comment *crosses fingers* lol.
Now that video of the tribe was quite interesting. I do believe in today’s society, men could bond alot more. I’ve noticed alot of my heterosexual male friends, I can’t really have deep conversations with them. And sometimes one might just chalk it up to say “oh well that’s your friends”, but sometimes it seems to be very universal at times with all straight masculine men. I feel that gay men both masculine and feminine are able to have deeeper conversations and a deeper sense of self. And I don’t know if its because being gay in this world humbles you on some accord and kind of forces you to be open minded, but it seems to be something I’ve noticed. All in all thanks Nick and Ocky for another great read and challenging my mind. And Jamie as well for your comment, I hope you take my response as nothing negative but simply feedback from another cypher as I am open to hearing yours and others as well.
Man stop with the “don’t go in on me”. Your viewpoints and opinions are just as valuable as the site’s creators and the other members and contributors.
There are many aspects of my personal views that are rigid concerning masculinity so you are correct in your assumptions or observations but I’m still very open minded and flexible…hence me posting this article and video.
I’m kinda on the same wavelength as you regarding perception of masculinity/effeminacy. Case in point, the guy that made the video clip regarding the whole “Miss D, or whatever the f#4k his name is and the Kings vs. Queens fiasco, saying they invited him to the panel just to attack him, I personally wouldn’t consider him a masc dude. Most dudes porbably would because of the deep voice and muscles, but for me just something about the fem lull in his voice. I don’t have the deepest voice myself, but I don’t have no lull or lisp. But again, it’s all about one’s personal perception.
Okay so I was trying to look at this objectively and I was doing a good job up until the part when dude was cheesing as he stroked dude and checked out the other guys piece. I busted out laughing and then couldn’t stop. Now that I got that out of the way, I do feel there is something beautiful about male bonding and there isn’t enough of it in “this community”.
Everyone is different point blank. I was raised by my mom when my parents separated and I am just me. The single parent theory is just that a theory to having men be effeminate. Then what about females that behave like guys and raised in a single family household? I looked into the soy theory and that turned out to be nonsense as well. People just develop into who they are naturally and within their environment. You have guys that are masculine in public and when they are behind closed doors its something different.
I watched the video and it was just guys in the tribe having a ritual. The same can be said with guys currently from the Middle East having sex with each other and not placing a label on it. The video was interesting and educational. Watching it also goes to show how Christianity and outside influence controls people. I am sure the members of that tribe do not have a sexual label on what they do they are just doing what is natural to them.
Loved it. I learnt a stack of really good things from this. Thanks for taking the time to write it