Picture this: I’m on the hunt for new Cypher Ave content. I remember I have a list of URLS and links to short films that I need to watch and see if they are interesting enough to highlight on the site. Damn, I’m hungry and thirsty. I make a quick run to the store for beer, chips and salsa to go with my evening of viewing black gay content.
Back at my computer monitor I open up the doc that I saved weeks ago that has the list. A Bitter Pill, we already posted that. Okay how about Toeing The Line? Hmm kinda interesting; seems like a typical gay interracial down low story line but looks can be deceiving. I copy and paste the URL in YouTube and view the trailer. Okay, saw the trailer and it states it will be released June 2013. Great, so it’s already been released. So I search and search and can’t find the full short film on YouTube. So I go to the link in the “about” section of the trailer to find the content creators website. I go to the website and I find the film I’m looking for to view and BAM…it’s a pay per view on demand!? I have to pay $2.99 for 24 hours access to view the 17 minute short film.
Nick Delmacy created a two-part article months back about the lack of financial support in the black gay community. The two-part article talked about low CD and download sales for black gay music artists, failed Kickstarter or crowd funding campaigns for up and coming black gay movies or web series and fans of said music artists and gay web series being “in name only” who never come out of their pockets to support the LGBT community they claim to love. The article was mentioned on numerous black gay websites, and tweeted even more, but I wondered how many black gays actually come out of their pockets to help support the entertainment productions that we say we love and so desperately need?
*Quick Side Note*
Are you aware that Cypher Avenue is basically the only website that actually highlights and reviews many black gay web series, gay short films, gay musicians and gay novelists on the internet? On top of that, we recognize many of them at the end of the year with out “Best Of” lists, giving them even more exposure. Many websites that cater to the black LGBT community, never even mention these web series and short films on their websites/podcasts/video blogs yet want to preach how we need to support each other and stick together as a community. STFU already.
So as I visit a website like The Branden Blinn Media Group (TBBMG on demand) to watch Toeing The Line, the first thing that pops in my mind is “that you mean to tell me there aren’t any black gay filmmakers or content creators who can create an on demand pay site like this for their content”?
In addition to creating an on demand website, how about also releasing your web series on DVD and selling them via the same website? DVD burning software and hardware make it easier than ever to mass produce your own DVD’s with title menus and all. I have done it myself for certain projects and YES it is that easy (coming from the guy who thinks Facebook is annoying and complicated). I know resources are limited; however Nick Delmacy created the Cypher Ave TV page all by his lonesome, not to mention the entire Cypher Ave site from the ground up.
Wouldn’t it be nice if black gay content creators like Deondray Gossett, Quincy LeNear, Lamont Pierre, Derrick L. Briggs, Patrick-Ian Polk, Sean Anthony, Lasto, Ernest Pierce, Kaos, Wayne Hobdy, David Summers, George Smith Hill, Maurice Jamal, Romaine Phillips, Lonnell Williams, etc. could come together like Voltron?
What if we could have the BGEMG (Black Gay Entertainment Media Group) that would charge to view or listen to content? The media group would receive 15% of all profits and the rest would go directly to the director of each show viewed on the BGEMG on demand website. Money earned could go towards better productions and possible better actors to star in the productions. By the way, I think Toeing The Line has been viewed on demand at least 84 times so that equals about $252. Hell that’s better than $0.00 received from viewership on YouTube.
Yeah…what if? I am on my third beer now so I guess I’m done with my rant on this subject. If you like or don’t like my idea, feel free to share your thoughts.
This link isn’t exactly about black gay content but Issa Rae is winning, yall. I was just talking about making a small donation to her Kickstarter campaign for Awkward Black Girl. That was a while back and now she’s got a deal bringing the show to HBO.
This is what all the black gay web creators want too, isn’t it? Producing your dream projects, on your own terms, and then moving to the big time where your target audience, and more money, is likely to be.
Question time: What’s the benefit of the customer paying for ON Demand webisodes when there are so many available web shows to watch free of charge? It seems almost as silly as paying for porn.
Also, aren’t producers getting paid ad revenue from You Tube? I’ve heard people can quit their day job from You Tube ad revenue alone, get invited to be a You Tube Partner, and produce their shows full time. So what’s real and what’s hype?
The content creators who are really making a profit from ad revenue are the ones who have successful channels by just turning on a cheap camera and filming themselves talking about whatever or doing something that some audience thinks is interesting. Real filmmakers with real production-related overhead aren’t turning a profit that way because our productions require more money to produce. Ad revenue ends up being pennies in comparison. That’s why I believe in keeping costs low for web productions. Usually, web filmmakers are trying to be credible and have other goals anyway (like selling a project, getting distribution, television licensing, etc.)
Thanks, man. Understanding that a little better.
@freefallseries has love for @cypheravenue! Going hard is the name of the game!
As a filmmaker, the main answer to this question is that each filmmaker has their own goals for their respective projects and careers.
Monetization is a huge part of being an online content creator, however, depending on where you are in your career, it’s sometimes not the main goal or your current project is not the project that you feel will really make money (i know that sounds weird).
In addition, it’s often not about being able to make a website to sell your content. it’s all about what your long-term business strategy is.
I’ve come to believe that the web is the best place to develop and cultivate an audience that will support you through not just web projects, but theatrical and TV projects as well. And web content creators have to be careful the money they invest in web projects, the return can be nonexistent. That’s why one must be ready to use the web as a springboard to other opportunities. I know two popular gay filmmakers who will NOT put their popular series on the web – and they have their reasons.
I end this to say – what you see on the outside is usually not the full picture w/ certain filmmakers and their projects. Until the YouTube audience (for example) gravitates to a culture of willingly paying for online content, filmmakers will continue to have other irons in the fire when it comes to their projects that viewers may not see.
Well stated @lamontpierre but the only problem I have with this is you say monetization is not your goal, you have a long-term goal…Okay fine, but you’re on your second fan fundraiser for Freefall now. Short term monetization is CLEARLY a goal….even if its just make the quality of the show better or even to just continue doing it.
If money from fans will cover the “real production-related overhead” that you speak of, why not monetize the show in some form or fashion as a collective? That’s all that Ocky was getting at, I believe. I’m not a fan of this idea but its def one to consider if nothing else is working individually for anyone (I did my research, remember).
It costs money to do what all of the (more skilled) content creators do. We know that.
So instead of perpetual digital panhandling by a lot of indie artists (I’ve done it before and felt dirty and humbled when asking for handouts from strangers for art), why not go the old American Way and sell the product to the fan base that’s clearly there. @Coshamo clearly won’t be one of those people, but thousands of other fans may be willing. Even more so if its a part of a coalition like BGEMG or AFFRM ( African American Film Releasing Movement). Just a thought.
Thanks, Nick. The problem is I didn’t say monetization wasn’t my project’s goal. My initial statement was a bigger picture perspective that content creators face in general.
I didn’t touch on my project’s goals because I didn’t feel that was the question Ocky posed. My answer to Ocky’s question wasn’t that it was a bad idea or that I would never do it (it’s a great idea), I was trying to make the point that it has to line up with all of these content creators’ goals which I’m sure are varies from filmmaker to filmmaker. It’s a great idea in theory just maybe not as practical for the reasons I listed.
Also, I’ve personally studied (and met) the AFFRM team and think it’s a great movement. However, what you don’t know is as great as they look, are they really turning profits or is it an illusion?
My overall point is that there is always more going on than people think. That’s all.
Regarding negative comments, I don’t necessarily think it’s best for me personally to have such an important convo like this via a comment section, I think it’d be best for me to find another way to participate that can be more balanced and moderated. That’s all. But thanks for the respectful response.
But these are the articles that made me love DC before I was ever featured. Thanks again, fellas, for bringing these types of discussions to us. Looking forward to the responses.
Well, @lamontpierre to exit the comments section is your choice…just as it is your choice to just ignore the comments you don’t find worth responding to. Moderated? All @Coshamo did was interpret what you wrote and respond. True he was abrasive and he doesn’t like Freefall but from what I saw he didn’t call you out of your name nor did he use any foul language. He was nicer about the show than he usually is, actually. Man up, bro! (gonna get angry emails from fems for saying that, smh) But again, leaving is your choice, not sure what other moderated space/venue is having this conversation about black gay content. If you know, fill us in.
As for your comment, I can tell you’re about as conflicted on all this as the rest of us. No matter how many times you allude to your secret plan going on behind closed doors, I think we all know you’re grasping at straws. Almost every black gay artist is (except Lee Daniels a̶n̶d̶ ̶T̶y̶l̶e̶r̶ ̶P̶e̶r̶r̶y̶ ). Hell, even we’re doing it at Cypher Avenue. We all don’t know what will work b/c there is no clear established blueprint for indie content, let alone gay indie content.
I just mentioned AFFRM b/c they are at least trying. Same goes for Black&sexyTV, I like the coalition they’ve built. Damn near every Kickstarter that team has launched has gone well beyond its goal. If Freefall and the -ahem- better web series out there started a “BlackGay&SexyTV” that may win, branching off into Issa Rae type careers. Who knows. But consider this:
Ocky and I recently had a convo about George Smith Hill and his show Tha Life Atlanta. He’s now currently making a THIRD pilot to pitch to networks. I asked Ocky, why is he so desperate to appease these Caucasian networks when they’ve already told him “No” twice? To me they basically said, “Look we were really just being nice by giving you notes, we actually just don’t wanna do business with you, gay nicca.”
BET and TVOne will NEVER air a black gay show. Black straight ppl are too religiously stone-aged for that. So what’s left? Going straight to the people that crave the content and charging them just like Oscar Micheaux did nearly 100 years ago during the fucking GREAT DEPRESSION, of all times…
@ Nick..I think George Smith Hill wants to see his name on the big marquee and in his mind if Ian Polk can do it well so can he. Pitching his story to mainstream media houses is like selling heat to the Eskimos…they don’t need heat they need fish. Mainstream America don’t need to see a group of black men, gay men at that, and the life they lead. And quite frankly so does most of America. The show lacks content value and dramatic appeal. He is best served therefore with your idea- take it to his specified audience and charge to see it. But paid or free if your content is crap then there is no miracle here- it will fail!
LOL @ Eskimos. But you make some good points @ptseti. In relaunching our website we discussed how can we make it more “black straight friendly” without adding celeb gossip…In the end we realized the best thing to do is to appeal to the black gay/bi audience we know we have instead of some hypothetical black straight audience that will likely never come around. For example, I’ve noticed that even the heterosexual cast/crew that works on these gay web series don’t share the YouTube links on their personal Facebook/Twitter accounts. If that doesn’t speak volumes…
@Nick I know we seem to peacefully disagree a lot, but on this one..I FULLY agree with you. People have to service the audience they have and hope it grows. I still roll my eyes thinking about the added lesbian in The Skinny and how transparent a ploy that was to reach the ladies.
@ Nick…..A ha…you see that….SMH…so much for acceptance…these web series must understand one thing- their audience is limited to the people that understand their message, their struggles and their culture and reaching that audience is hard much less holding their attention. You’ve seen and lived the struggles with your site. If you try and reach everybody you eventually reach nobody – a simple philosophy in the entertainment business. So know your audience, speak the truth and they will come.
I dare say all these producers are on the ‘get rich quick’ fast train. Lamont Pierre talks about each producer having their ‘own agenda’ and ‘message’…that’s his reason for your suggestion of they all coming together may not work. Ummm I disagree. They are all in this thing for one thing- TO MAKE MONEY..period. Nobody is doing this to be a Dr. Phil…we have enough of him already. Its to make money. Thats’ why you do the thing you do!
There is strength in numbers. Business thrives when everyone’s idea becomes a great idea by the genie that is rubbing it. Just think about it – if they all came together, each man with his strengths and following – the community will have no choice BUT to pay attention. The essence of this group will be the unity in its variety. But we know – One thing the black man is not known for is his ability to work with his own kind. Memo to web-series producers- Get together. Where unity of love may not be possible- unity of purpose is.
@Nick I have in mind to support a consortium if it will improve content and provide access and opportunity. I do have a progressive heart @Nick and will show some support if I can see where the community as a whole benefits. I haven’t problem supporting good within our community as my track record speaks for itself.
Hell, even after the comments I made about Spike Lee I made a contribution to his project on kickstarter due to in part because of his track record and commitment to providing excellent content reflecting our story and truth. You jumped to fast on the trigger @Nick. I like @Ockydub ‘s idea at face value and it has potential.
Not far-fetched in the least. You’d think they communicate w/ each other often. Wait, don’t they…?
Haha, Voltron..lol
Voltron,REPRESENT
Ocky, I love your passion bro, and after reading your rant, I empathize with your frustration. Here’s a left field question;
“Are “white gay” content creators experiencing the same level of difficulty in terms of reaching their targeted audiences?”
And if the answer is NO, then we have a bigger problem than just fragmented hubs to view “black gay” content. Building a central model/vehicle to host on demand content is one thing, but challenging the habits of Gay Men of color is quite another. I like the idea you presented above. If you guys don’t find a vehicle that can connect ALL of this content, someone else will. Get together and take the risk.
“STFU ALREADY”… 🙂 I could have died when I read that… lol… Say it with more feeling next time… lol @Ocky.
This is doable. The consortium sought can happen, but based on Lamont Pierre’s assertion “he is not into that as his goal.” In other words he’s out for self. With his free fall series that sucks which I would never give a penny to. He, and those who think like him needs to wake up and smell the coffee. Being self-centered will not move anything forward.
Good luck with you proposal @Ocky. It’s a good start and a nice try, but you can see you already have a mountain to climb to get over the haters – especially those with a “not-so-great-of-a-show” – freefall is “falling.”
Wow. Is that what I said? I give up. I knew it was a bad idea providing some perspective in this kind of way. Enjoy the discussion fellas and shout out to the @FreefallSeries supporters and the rest of the web series creators out there. Keep your heads up! As you can see, the audience wants the content but the price of trying to get them to understand is too high and is reason for why most producers/directors (like me) in the industry don’t want to take a risk on LGBT content, especially not Black LGBT content. We take the risk with very little payoff, literally and figuratively, from our own demographic. Again, good luck everyone!
Whoa, you throw in the towel after one negative comment? Dude, you’ve never been on an internet comments section? Check the racist and homophobic comments on The Huffington Post and YouTube, way worse! If me and Ocky had given up after a single negative comment on Discreet City there would be no Cypher Avenue. #IJS
You can say that shit again.
Nick’s right. (Did I just say that?) You shouldn’t leave after just one contradictory comment. Even if it was more than one, then so what? You provide an informed voice, based on experience, and a unique opportunity to communicate with the filmmaker.
Kudos @lamontpierre
One of the things I learned very quickly as a writer was to not get too caught up on the discussion boards when it specifically talks about you or your craft. It’s a waste of time. You argue with one person when you could be creating content for many more who would appreciate it. I’ve lost hours on Kboards, a discussion board for writers, arguing with folks.
But, like you, I have no desire to join some gay black media group. For me, it would be like joining a gay black publishing group. I’d rather hone my craft, find ways to earn money for the work I put in and not give an unnecessary cut of my royalties from my creation to others.
Damn…ouch :l
The issues with black gay filmmakers is a problem that persist far beyond LGBT filmmakers of color . Most minorities in general (especially within the African-American community) have been brainwashed since birth, to believe they have no place in the art of filmmaking Many of our children of color are deprived from experiencing proper art courses in grade school, robbing them of having opportunity to value the beauty of creativity. The few who find alternatives to attend institution that support the arts, become even a greater minority in a sea of white (speaking from personal experience). So while many of our cacussian counterparts have access to the best education/equipment/support for filmmaking from the start, our creative community of color are stuck with just a dream that very few believe in.
Now I’m not saying this is an complete excuse for filmmakers of color to give up, but I think it presents a greater understanding of the up hill battle that is still being fought. Defeating the brainwashing of an entire people will take time. But it is becoming more an more difficult to delusion us, when we our witnessing such success/talent within our own creative community of color (I.E. Lamont Pieerre, Lee Daniels, Maurice Jamal, Patrick Ian Polk, Quincy Lenear, Sean Anthony, etc..). We as a community of color (regardless of gender, sexuality, etc..) have to value our visibility within the arts (something that the Cypher Avenue team presents proudly)
I like what you said about black kids not being properly exposed to the arts.Beyond rapping I noticed a lot of black kids don’t see any possible creative outlets for themselves early on. Even lots of young blk musicians I know grew up playing in church and often don’t go beyond there and are greatly unfamiliar with other realms of playing.
There are lots of black artists(music,film etc) with a great spark who offer substance to their fields,but they are largely unexposed ,as Ocky said.
Do you think maybe not being very exposed to lots of good and diverse art maybe makes us less aware of the level of quality we should expect? Perhaps there’s an attitude of “as long as im fairly entertained,it’s ok”.That would explain why a lot of mediocre products is allowed to thrive.and on the flip side,when we we make art ourselves,we go into with that same sort of something-is-better-than nothing attitude
hmm @thatguy and @inpaq I don’t wanna get too off topic but I had to followup on this somewhat. Is the heart of the problem the quality of the work? Just yesterday @blackpegasus mentioned that he financially supported a gay music artist that we vouched for and only liked one song on the entire album. Even I have my, er.., strong opinions about the gay web series and short films out there…Reminds me of local filmmakers here in ATL that try to charge $10-$20 plus gas money for me to see their shitty story/audio/sound indie film screenings.
Are the “fans” just coming in droves because the party is free but as soon as the club starts a cover charge will they decide the club wasn’t really “all that” to pay actual money and just find another free party? Or are they actually loyal? Issa Raye’s fans were loyal, she raised more than $26k OVER her initial $30k goal. Why aren’t the Gay Fans just as “loyal” when it comes to fundraisers that seem mathematically easy to reach given the YouTube view counts?
Quality is not the issue with the problem the article points out.i just wanted to get into Inpaq’s comments about blks not believing they have a place in fthe film industry and not experiencing the arts.
As far as the issue of gaining financial support,perhaps one good strategy would be to make the first five minutes of an episode free,and then if you haven’t paid,the stream cuts off.give them a taste maybe they’ll want more.
The club example you used was pretty accurate.If it requires sacrifice,most lose interest,unless they are truly invested.I will personally buy certain albums without hearing a single song just because I trust the artist. If we all used that approach with our film makers we could get alot done.When money is involved we have an understandably wait-and-see -first disposition. But like i said,if the creator has proven their self ,trust them.
People have to value the work as more than something to pass their time. For one thing,in our specific community,we have to see it as something of a cause.A lot of us on this site complain about not being represented,so we SHOULD help out getting shows/films out there about us.
With a figure like the one mentioned in the article ,you could easily skip one snack or something a week to help out.That’s far less than we pay to see other movies.Think of where civil rights would be if MLK made speeches but no one showed marched with him. People have to get motivated and not take the films and such for…
damn, bro.
Yeah lol i didnt realise I’d typed that much.I seriously hope I answered @Nick properly
you good. i was responding to a comment in nick’s reply.
I’d like to think that black LGBTQ content creators are getting paid for their youtube views (monetize). One of the reasons why there’s a bit of stagnation with black LGBTQ content creators is because some of them feel like this is a competition between each other when in fact, not all of them have the same end-goal(s) in mind. My fear is that when YouTube decides it will charge users to watch videos on their site, this will hurt them even more but I do like the idea of black LGBTQ creators creating their own media group hub; at least this way, everyone is being seen and content why might not even know about is finally getting some much-needed attention. I’ve supported efforts such as No Shade, Free Fall, etc. via their KickStarter/IndieGoGo campaigns and that can only do so much but I think forming a media group would really help out in the long run.
I believe that one of the reasons that white LGBTQA community supports online content financially is that it falls under the umbrella of their social and political agenda. What agenda does the Black LGBTQA community have? Dyck and arse? lol
@thinker , speak on that shyt lil homie!
Great observation.
Lol…. There so much truth to this statment ….SMH @thinker
I don’t think that’s really the case. If it were then all white shows would be kind of the same. From what I’ve seen they are all over the place just like the shows we have. I think they contribute more financially because they know there’s no shame in doing so. Just like women contribute to Issa Rae. However, it seems most black gay men are uncomfortable even posting gay series on their public profiles or sharing them with friends, let alone send their finances to it.
Whatever happened to Glo-TV, the Maurice Jamal paid site?
Good question…I actually donated to that cause..it had a solid, variety of programming for about 5 mins..then i realized after about a year of no new programming, they had been collecting my monthly paypal donations w/o any updates.
What? That’s inexcusably fucked up. And that’s yet another reason that makes people hesitant to contribute to these independent endeavors.
It seems like you would have gotten SOME type of update, text, Facebook message, email message, smoke signal, SOMETHING, if they’d been charging your paypal account on a monthly basis.
See there? But then we sit around and talk all this shit about our lack of support.
Whoa! That’s fucked up — good thing you caught that those charges were still being taken out of your account!
“Wouldn’t it be nice if black gay content creators like Deondray Gossett, Quincy LeNear, Lamont Pierre, Derrick L. Briggs, Patrick-Ian Polk, Sean Anthony, Lasto, Ernest Pierce, Kaos, Wayne Hobdy, David Summers, George Smith Hill, Maurice Jamal, Romaine Phillips, Lonnell Williams, etc. could come together like Voltron?”
In theory it would, but do you think all those male egos could co-exist peacefully for the greater good? I don’t know how many of you are familiar with Dennis Dortch of BLACK&SEXYTV, but they produce a slate of shows and have worked with Issa Rae and other YouTube partners to make their own programming. I’d love to see something like this happen with Black gay content creators (film, online, music, etc).
Yes! The Gayvengers!
“In theory it would, but do you think all those male egos could co-exist peacefully for the greater good?”
Great point…you know there are plenty of individuals of other ethnicities who put their differences aside if it means they can make money. Basically my dislike for you has nothing to do with my financial bottom line and the growth of our ethnic group’s stability.
Great topic. Just wanted to weigh in with this comment from an author of an automotive enthusiast blog that I read. The author co-signs on a reader’s compliment re: site cross-promotion..
READER COMMENT:
“My hat’s off to you guys at “Unnamed Website”. The production quality just keeps getting better. The topics are more and more creative and not just about test drives. How do we get more Host 1/Host 2 episodes – great chemistry. I keep writing and deleting because I sound like a massive fanboy, but credit where credit’s due.” 6/04/13 3:08am
AUTHOR COMMENT:
“we didn’t really plan for it to be as popular as it’s been, but I think the key to ongoing success of “Unnamed Website” is having hosts appear on each others shows as much as possible. It really shows that each host, while they have their own personality and specialties, all have great chemistry under the right circumstances and have a bigger range than specific shows let on.” 6/04/13 1:52pm
In my humble opinion, the problem with black gay content creators is that they seem to be bent on producing mass product with minimum funds. I can understand the urge to put out as much content as you can, but if you put out a lot of content ant it’s mediocre then it’s self defeating. I heard word of how much the DL chronicles team put up for their latest episode and was blown away. But apparently it’s amazing and touring festivals and I’m thinking it will yield more benefit int he long run to have one GREAT episode of something then 10 episodes of something that is univerally seemed as crappy.
Another thing that bothers me is that a lot of LGBT content creators shoot on a write/shoot upload basis. I would rather them have everything lined up storywise and carefully crafted for the whole season then just shooting and posting and seeing what sticks and adjusting as they go. That’s also self defeating to me as your story isn’t maximized and leads to holes.
As far as people teaming up…I think certain ones do. I know the producers of Drama Queenz collaborate with people all the time in one way or another. I think since no one has broken through everyone is hesitant to fully help because no one has actually made it yet. I think it would be great if George Smith put this reality stuff on hold and used his obvious resources to help fund another scripted project and leveraging that for his show. Just my thoughts.
Wait, wait…I didn’t want this statement to get lost in the shuffle. Nick stated…
“I’ve noticed that even the heterosexual cast/crew that works on these gay web series don’t share the YouTube links on their personal Facebook/Twitter accounts. If that doesn’t speak volumes…”
Does this mean that they (the str8s) think the production they are working on is bad or they have a problem with gays or gay created entertainment?
I want to believe the heterosexuals that work for Lee Denials have links and mentions of the projects (past and present) on their social media accounts.
Or maybe they have their own personal projects airing at the same time that they would rather promote? Your reasons are probably accurate to a degree as well but I think the conflict of interest is a big one too.
The main difference is Lee Daniels is Gay but he doesn’t make gay content. I’d be surprised to see heterosexual black men sharing the gay film they acted in or co-wrote on their Twitter/Facebook timelines.
I’m team @Nick today apparently. Over the past few years I’ve met straight actors/directors who have been in fairly popular gay shorts/tv shows and they are always shocked that the work is as popular as it is with the gays. And of course introducing yourself by telling them you were a big fan of the gay project they didnt know was popular is like coming out of the closet to them.
I’ve mixed feelings about Daniels. Yes, it’s good to see a brother who is openly gay and doing his thing. On the other hand, I sense self-loathing, toxic exhibitionism, and a desperate need to be accepted by the larger culture in his work and interviews.
Yeah, Ocky, it DOES speak volumes. The good looking dude from Kick-Ass described his closet case role in a Mr. Madea movie as “deviant.” Too many of these straight actors think they’re slumming when they do gay roles. And we have a tendency to give straight actors in gay roles far too much credit. As if they’re Dustin Hoffman playing a fucking alien or something.
There are plenty out, black gay actors who can really act and are fine as hell. They need to be cast.
Ur talkin about that fine ass Omari Hardwick, btw.
As for gay castings, its the same issue w being out in pop culture across the board. Gay actors and singers have a hard road to tow if they come out. Esp, when it comes to leading man status. If you look a certain way, ur automatically cast as leading man, aka, every woman’s new heartthrob. Unless he’s playing the black friend in a white cast, Omari Hardwick would never be the funny friend. Same thing w, singers, Trey songz’ entire image is based on him being a pretty ladies man. If they came out as gay men, no1 would want to bank on them, because their entire female fan base no longer lusts after them.
I do agree with you about everyone throwing oscars at every str8 man who plays a gay character, and I totally would love to see out artists shine, but i dont see that happening for a while, unfortunately.
I hear what you’re saying SB3000. But old ass Sir Ian McKellen has been out for years. He’s in NOBODY’s major target demographic but he’s been in every major block buster geared towards heterosexuals and making major bank for a while now, such as the X Men and Lord of the Rings franchises. Neil Patrick Harris plays a man-whore on that show I never watch and has lucratively played him for years.
Yes, they’re white and the rules are different. But if Frank Ocean and Jason Collins can dip their toes in the risky waters, then so can a masculine black openly gay actor.
@ Ocky..not that they don’t like it or support it ..just that most of their friends and friends friends may not support or want or identify with their line of work so why preach to the unfaithful choir?
That is a intersting point…. But I bet Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal had absolutley no problem going on every morning, and late night talk show promoting Brokeback Mnt…. but then again that is/was a big budget white gay movie
Bradley Cooper(The Hangover) still talks about his first film where he played a gay camp counselor and had a bareback anal scene in it.
Just makes me realize that black people need to be more progressive on so many levels.
Ocky…that’s very interesting query you just opened up. Without saying too much, I will say that I’ve had the honor of meeting director Lee Daniels and he has a way of making you laugh and feel comfortable in his presence. Having said that, I will also say that lots of people who work on these productions still carry some fear and loathing of homosexuals. They will of course list his production in their respective resumes, but there will be no cheerleading beyond that. But once you have a distributor for your project, the homophobic heterosexuals who worked on that production’s filming matters not…
I still don’t understand why its so hard for black gay content creators to pull off successful fundraisers like Issa Rae and her team over at Black&SexyTV. No content creator has even been able to answer that, nor have they been willing to try.
It’s hard in my opinion because its so hard to please people enough to get them to support your project. They have 10 reasons why the project sucks and will fail but won’t donate $1 to help out. We all desire quality content but it’s not cheap to execute. We can’t continue to be so negative towards peoples visions. Have an opinion that’s fine but also help to make it better too. We don’t support if it’s not free.
How much did it cost you to write your comment? Having an imagination, being creative and being able to write your creative story down on paper is free.
Having a web series about 4 effeminate gay friends in their 20’s looking for love has been done repeatedly over the last 10 years and is lazy. Good story and good acting is pleasing to people. Bad story and bad acting is not. Calling it out and stating the obvious is not being negative but being aware. Donating a $1 is not going to make a content creator have a better imagination.
Well @act1scene2 those critical people are not fans so why would you expect donations from them? I was referring to the people who claim to be fans and gush over the artists with praises and positive comments but they never donate even just a few dollars.
I worked with a couple of the well known names that are listed above in the past. Ever since I decided to start my own projects neither of them have reached out to show support in any form, shape or fashion. It’s painful when you work with people to help build their brand, especially as an intern only to be treated as an enemy. With that being said I embrace the opportunities I had working with them and will move forward with working and building with creators who are serious, committed and dedicated to bringing high quality content to the community.
This is some true shit right here… A lot of people only looking out for self yet preach supporting the community… I can understand people may not want or have the time to show up on set or donate money, but sometimes something as simple sharing links/videos with their fan base goes a long way. A lot of folks don’t even do that.
Having said that, @bluntedmuse , I think sometimes we all have to be better and more consistent with marketing. Sometimes emails/tweets fall through the cracks so being diligent/persistent in soliciting the attention of certain people can make a big difference…sometimes. LOL.
Thanks for adding your feedback.
LOL I see… I’ll let everyone know that Im extremely horrible at social media and being diligent in responding to anything right away, its not that I being rude, Im literally running around NYC… I always eventually respond. It may take a couple days to catch up with everything, BUT, late as ever, one will hear from me….. I need a PR, assistant or something to handle Twitter & Instagram
Thank you for being bold enough to tell the truth. I’m beginning to get the feeling that the only place black entertainers show unity is at an image award. And then after that it’s business as usual. I did a No Shade marathon yesterday, btw, and I love it.
Thank you Eric! Glad you like.
No Shade has lost some of the original polish. It needs new energy – where that will come from I have not a clue, but I will suffice it to say that some characters need resuscitation therapy. It’s called creativity. Breath some life into your script. Add some vigor – straight acting dude is starting to act “too gay.” LOL… I guess being around all that fem energy will rub off on you. Next thing you know he will be wearing a dress and heels talking about he’s bringing out the “inner woman in him that he always new was there.” Shiz crazeee… swear
Thanks for that, it was very enlightening!
So No Shade lacks creativity and “original polish” because the masculine character appears to have fem qualities? Your gripe with the show is the possibility of Noel becoming a cross dresser? Of all the things one can critique based on lack of creativity is the effeminization of a character?, and here I thought you were going to offer some groundbreaking, thought provoking, mind blowing solutions to improve our content. My fault.
But not that gif tho, I can see you actually doing that LMAO
Actually you should read more often that way you can actually see the words and take them at “face value.” I said it lacked some of the “original polish.” That means that when it first came on the scene it “had polish.” READ, DAMN IT, READ. Either that or wait til you come down off your high.
Don’t tell me I hurt your lil feelins too… ahhh fuck naw…Go cry to @Nick too. Go tell ’em I didn’t like EVERYTHING about your show so, thus, you are highly offended.
Alright I’m stepping in to nip shit in the bud…we rarely have to do it but when we do: Coshamo is usually involved. Please no trolling and baiting people into word fights here, fellas. This is not the BGC forums. @Coshamo You wrote this just a few days ago regarding Spike Lee: “He should know how to conduct himself in a classy manner regardless of whether the party/interviewer says anything he may disagree with.” We should all remember this advice when posting replies on Cypher Avenue. If anyone out there needs a reminder, here are the commenting guidelines for this website: http://cypheravenue.com/site/comment-section-tips-and-rules/
^This gif has been me the past few days ^
I get the message, COSHAMO, causes ALL of the DRAMA on cypheravenue. Normally, I am well spoken and restrained, but seems as though when certain people “come around” I have to kiss their ass and say I like their show – that will never happen. If they can’t take decent, well written criticisms of their “works” then they are in the wrong business. Suddenly, @Nick must MODERATE all of COSHAMO’S comments because Some “producer/director” had their feelings hurt for – get this – what many on cypheravenue are already SAYING: “bad content, poor acting, lacking polish/lackluster, poor plot, lack of chemistry/cohesion among cast members, poor lighting, poor sound, poor camera shots, poor writing, too much sex, etc…” but only when COSHAMO “repeats it” – what has already been said by a number of “bona-fide, certified, regular, members of cypheravenue” – then all hell and damnation has suddenly come about.
@Nick, I have been very restrained on the new site, mores so even. But if nobody can respectfully criticize their content without them crying because everybody doesn’t “kiss up to me like my ‘dumb/no acting cast members do’ then I’m offended.” REALLY? Then a new consortium is badly needed. I might start making movies. I can start with a soliloquy about how I don’t “care” for directors who catch hurt feelins from COSHAMO.
COSHAMO is going on vacation/hiatus!!! I need to make everyone happy being Yes “men.”
@Coshamo Throw a public tantrum and display hurt feelings all you want. We will NOT tolerate comment section trolling on this website. You know full well that this isn’t about you not liking a web series and saying so. This is about your reply comment made this morning that I had to edit because it was disrespectful. Stop acting innocent and like a victim. You are a grown man. If you can not follow the rules like everyone else, then yes…it may be best to take a break/vacation/hiatus or whatever.
Terry, I just saw you in Goons Vs. Gays and I love it. You’re versatile. Well. You know what I mean.
Lol thank you, I’m looking to expand on the characters I play in 2014.
Looking forward to it 🙂
Our team has watched many content creators (straight & LGBT alike) do IndieGoGo, Kickstarter & GoFundMe campaigns with little to no success. White content creators don’t have this problem because many have access to money or they themselves come from higher paying jobs & can fully finance these ventures.
And to be honest, many white content creators did a good job planning for success BEFORE the first pilot episode was released. Many black content creators did campaigns as an after-thought or because someone else was doing one.
Black people in general have a problem working together & supporting one another. And since someone mentioned BGC, you can talk about how the black LGBT community has a history on and off line where we make it our business to “read” one another & being the best at “giving shade” & tearing one another down.
In closing, I agree, black content creators do need to work together. It is disheartening to hear that Sean Anthony was not supported by other content creators. Black content creators should form a group to change that. I’m with teaming up with other content creators to do something stronger & all of us benefit. We can ask for contributions, but we must be willing to accept input & ideas from others.
@cedricquincy why do people still use kickstarter though? It’s ALL or Nothing stance makes it hard to set a realistic budget. You dont wanna shoot for how much you actually need as it may be unattainable, but you dont wanna go to low because then what’s the point. I’m a also a content creator about to start an IndieGogo campaign. And another thing, in my opinion, is that a lot of black LGBT content creators don’t seem to necessarily work together because they all want to be the first certified breakout hit. That’s what it seems like to me.
What I’ve seen is that most content creators use IndieGoGo or GoFundMe because they get to keep portion of what they raise regardless of whether or not they are successful. Kickstarter can be beneficial if you are willing to take the chance with ALL or NOTHING.
And I agree, a lot of black LGBT content creators aren’t willing to work together & help one another. We want to see one of our “pieces”
(without violating the sites rules) in webseries form as well. And we are willing to work with another content creator to help them & are open to learning from one another so that all of us benefit. Hence the reason we’ve given money to & done a marketing campaign for FREEFALL. My team & I have written four other content creators in the past year and Lamont & Geno are the only ones who have ever written us back. Of the cast members of many different series, the cast of FREEFALL are the ones who I see grinding for their show the most, not to mention interact with their fans constantly.
I’m open to working with anyone to further a good webseries & to keep great content alive.
I’m just making sure I understand this. You’re talking about being a fund raising group. Is that right? In addition to raising funds you want to be included in the creative process by being hired as writers.
Who is your team and what is their experience? If everybody on the team is new then what are their goals exactly? Specifically. If anybody wanted to donate to your team then where do they send the money? Who’s watching the money? And who determines how it gets distributed?
Are content creators going to be contacted, like the folks at Freefall or No Shade for example, and be told, “We’d like to donate to your cause and would like to be included in the some creative capacity or writing process in turn.”?
Or will you seek out new creators, who don’t even have a little internet fame yet, and make some kind of offer to them? You said you would have given STREET BEHAVIOR $714 if you had known they needed the cash and you could have written for the show. How do you have access to money?
Are you already a consortium? Do you have an IMDB page? Is there a website I can go to so I won’t have to ask all these questions?
I’m not trying to be an asshole here. I have no experience in this sort of thing myself. But a whole lotta people talk a whole lotta stuff online and I’m just trying to separate the wheat from the chaff.
It’s chilly in here. It’s as if someone covered the convo in SHADE!!!
My bad.
lol. I will say from my own personal experience different content creators will barter things, even credit, to sort of work together. One group may be strong on casting but weak on equipment and will trade those with another group and they share credit on each others productions. Or at least that’s the way I’ve generally seen it done.
I will co-sign on that!
Sean, I have JUST discovered Goons Vs. Gays and it’s hilarious. I have a lot of catching up to do with you guys.
@bdee Asked a lot of valid questions…There are a LOT of people out there that see a train already in motion and want to jump on board after the fact.
“Bitch you wasn’t with me shooting in the gym” – Drake
Wow, lots has been said. Late to the party. So I’ll just focus on the original article…
First, as much as I love this website, the following claim or “side note” couldn’t be further from the truth…
“…basically the only website that actually highlights and reviews many black gay web series, gay short films, gay musicians and gay novelists on the internet…”
Just saying…
Second, just like white folks, black folks are not a monolithic group. Why is there this assumption that “black folks” have to come to together? The article lists gay black content creators. Each one of them are doing very different things. Why should they “come” together? Each one has an unique vision and put in different skills and talent to bring that vision to light.
Third, why should gay black content creators form a media group? Is there a white one? An Asian one? An Hispanic one?
If the complaint is the quality of content being produced, the market has a remedy for that. Content creators, or any sexuality or race, have to become more savvy and do research before taking a plunge.
Getting support is good, I guess. Personally, I don’t need supporters. As a writer of gay black fiction my goal is to garner and cultivate patrons. I don’t need or want anyone doing me a favor and purchase my work. I have enough people who look forward to buying my stuff.
At the end of the day, many of these webseries will fade away and the best written and well…
Thanks for adding to the discussion @gavin-ml-fletcher
“First, as much as I love this website, the following claim or “side note” couldn’t be further from the truth…”
Please name other websites that actually provides in-depth interviews and reviews of black gay web series, black gay short films, black gay musicians and black gay novelists as opposed to just sharing a few links and/or copy/pasting a short synopsis? We’ve reviewed whole seasons of black gay web series and entire books/albums from black gay artists, including interviewing them.
Why should gay black content creators form a media group? Is there a white one? An Asian one? An Hispanic one?
Yes, there are a few examples out there:
AaFFRM: http://www.affrm.com/ Was started to provide a collective independent distribution outlet for black indie filmmakers.
Black & Sexy TV: http://blackandsexy.tv/ YouTube channel collective of Black filmmakers distributing web series from several different filmmakers, some of whom are not founders of the collective.
IMAGE Comics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_Comics Comic book distribution company started by collective of former artists/creators for Marvel & DC coming together to release their own work and retain ownership of the characters. Comics include SPAWN and THE WALKING DEAD.
UNITED ARTISTS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Artists Film Studio/Distributor founded in 1919 by D. W. Griffith, Charlie Chaplin, Mary Pickford, and Douglas Fairbanks, with the intention of controlling their own interests rather than depending upon the powerful commercial studios.
Just to name a few…
@Nick
Your website is the Noah’s Arc of websites concerning black gay culture. Fine. But to claim that Cypher Avenue is, and I quote,
…”basically the only website that actually highlights and reviews many black gay web series, gay short films, gay musicians and gay novelists on the internet.”
Is flat out incorrect. In the article itself there is a banner image with “content creators.” Three of which do review black gay web series, shorts, actors of said shorts, rapper and novelist. Heck, one of them even sat down on a panel to with gay black novelist to discuss gay black literature. Also, I’ve been approached by a number of gay black blogger and pod casters for interviews. In fact, King Brooks from Rainbow Lit, a publication that highlights, reviews and interviews black gay novelist and their work, hit me up on Facebook the other day for information on my work. Now, is there a dearth of folks doing what you and these folks do? Heck no. But to say you are the only one, as the author of the article stated, is like saying Noah’s Arc is the ONLY gay black tv series.
As to the question I asked and you highlighted:
Why should gay black content creators form a media group? Is there a white one? An Asian one? An Hispanic one?
You didn’t answer the first question. You just listed media groups… groups that I would contend are not the best examples when considering the context in which a black gay media group was suggested in the article…
Gavin, as an author you should know that words are important. The quote from the article was:
“Cypher Avenue is basically the only website that actually highlights and reviews many black gay web series, gay short films, gay musicians and gay novelists on the internet”
The key word being: BASICALLY. The context in which the word was used here is: “for the most part.” So we never said that CA is the ONLY website covering these artists. I would argue that we are definitely the most visited out of any of the other websites you named, but that is a different discussion. Either way, none of the sites you mentioned review the works, they just occasionally share links. When we Google a lot of these artists, not many results come up besides our website and web pages that the content creators have started or submitted themselves, which is unfortunate.
Secondly, the first question you asked in that paragraph was answered in the article itself. Didn’t need to repeat that information. The listing of the groups was to refute your implication that no one else was forming media groups. I feel these were good examples solely because all of those artists decided not to wait for “the powers that be” to distribute their work and generate 100% revenue off of the product. All of the black web series creators are trying to “pitch” to networks, starting a media group COULD help them avoid wasting years of network rejection. might be worth a try.
Again, thanks for joining and contributing to “the Noah’s Arc of websites.”
Nick, you’re right. Words are definitely important. I guess couldn’t get beyond the author’s use of the word “only.” So… “Cypher Avenue is (for the most part) the only website that actually highlights and reviews many black gay web series, gay short films, gay musicians and gay novelists on the internet”
And since words and sentences are important, I refer back to the initial comment I mad and say that my comments were directed to the original article. At no point did I question that you guys did more than, “just sharing a few links and/or copy/pasting a short synopsis,” or that you guys are very proficient with SEO, sadly more than the said content creators. I mean, if you want to add context and enhance the article to provide clarity… go for it.
The article suggests that a gay black media group would prove to be a remedy to the issue of gay black content creators’ financial woes. Before I even get into why that assumption is wrong in my opinion, are we in agreement as to that being the answer to my question… Why we even need said group???
As to your examples… Image Comics was initially formed because the content creators wanted “ownership and creative control” over their work. I don’t think that’s an issue for black gay content creators today. Image has also had a very rocky history… I could show how problematic the two incarnations of United Artists is but I’m running out of characters. Hint…
LOL look, this is a lot of back and forth over nothing. I added extra context to my comments to clarify my responses, not the article. Am I not allowed to elaborate? You’re setting the response rules?
No matter what other words you highlight, the entire sentence quoted still means the same thing. We’re not the only website talking about this content, but we’re def “basically” one of very few. Especially for new people searching for the content online.
The original article merely threw out a suggestion. We don’t have the power to force anyone to do anything. I’m assuming from your responses that you’re a content creator, you can choose to do whatever you want.
When writing this article, @Ockydub merely saw how weak the web sereis and music content creators marketing, fundraising and monetization models were and made an alternative suggestion. After repeated failed fundraisers, the creators might be interested in other ideas.
The first reply you make is to challenge me to name other sites that do what you do. The article says there are none and you reply and say there are none that do as well a job as you. Then you felt the need to define “basically” as if it needed to be defined. Personally, I like apples and oranges but they are different.
Now, if you would have said, “sure there are others but none do xyz like us…” That would be different. But if that’s “nothing” to you, cool.
The author of the article invited comments on his thoughts. I simply gave mine, you chose to engage in the back and forth, sir. Am I allowed to disagree with his idea? Like I said originally, the market will handle unsuccessful ventures.
I read your article about financial support of content creators. I’d advise any artist to read it. It was the same article the author cited. So for me, it’s hard to read this article and think about the one you wrote. I personally don’t see how he can go from that to this suggestion.
But once again, to my original point before this back and forth about nothing…
Content creators who have weak story lines and production value will fall to the wayside. Those that have great stories, great production and solid marking, things that a few of the examples in your article had, have to find ways to monetize. Some folks are doing this through pay-on-demand on distributors like Amazon.com. Some, like Aaron Blackwood are using services to get folks to pay for content…
Semantics. If you said “I’m almost finished writing my web series.” Ignoring the word “almost” completely changes the sentence. This is what you did. No where in the article does it say we are the absolutely the only ones mentioning content creators. None of the examples you mentioned reviews episodes of web series and/or Out music artists on their website. They only list or share links.
Obviously not everyone’s plan is working, as evidenced by the fundraisers. This article was just an alternative suggestion. I answered all of your questions with specific examples yet you chose to ignore them. *Shrugs*
Oh my. I was not prepared for all this aggression.
What was the name of that one show with the bisexual guy? Not Ken, but the other one? It was posted recently, 3 episodes of it. Is that still running?
Interesting discussion.