CA Podcast #29 – A Cypher with the Tops

By Cypher Avenue | Posted Feb 2 2015 | 43 Comments  


Brehs, we present to you a new episode of the CYPHER AVENUE PODCAST where you’ll hear us give updates, engage in heated topic debates, interviewing interesting homosexual men of color and us verbally adding on to the articles posted on the website. The episodes will be available in four ways: You can listen to them on the site, watch on YouTube, download a MP3 version or subscribe to us on iTunes for automatic updates!

In this podcast, Cypher Avenue founders Ocky Williams and Nick Delmacy join three members of Cypher Avenue to discuss what its like to be confident, aggressive Tops in the gay community.








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Cypher Avenue

Cypher Avenue is a direct response to the lack of a single website on the Internet catering to gay/bisexual men that love hip hop, pop culture, video games, sci-fi and mature, open minded conversations. Topics ranging from sex, sports, movies, new tech, science, fashion, comic books, politics, working out, hip hop, booze, television, cars, the outdoors, geek stuff, dating, and relationships; you name it, we have it.

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43 Comments Feel Free To Join The Cypher.

  1. alton
    NYCforEVER | February 2nd, 2015

    Awesome PodCast, AS usual LOL.

    A.) I’ve said it before on this shit, I don’t get bottoms that don’t like to get they shit sucked/touched. I get it if you really feel like you a chick trapped in a man’s body but, then again I wouldn’t be messing with someone in that mental state in the first place. But if you’re just a gay guy who’s NOT misplaced, then I’m sorry but you got a dick, dude. Like for real, I’m gonna play with the shit, especially if its mad big. F#$kin dudes be like…

    “Uhh uhhh…don’ touch my dick. I don’ like thyeeat. Stooooop!!…Just play wit my pu$$y”

    …UGHLLLL!! You ain’t got no pu$$y, Dude! F#$k outta here with that shit LOL!

    B.) For the end commentary on “accidents” during sex, I may be a little extreme wit it and it could be heavily influenced by porn, but I don’t like to see no shit (pun intended) out of the ordinary during sex. I don’t do bad smells and I don’t like to see shit “wrong”. I’m even funny about lube, I don’t like to see frothy lube, nothing like that. Turns me off and my shit goes limp quickly. I’m a weirdo with that. LOL

    Oh…”and ya’ niggaz is gonna STOP with this shamin’ bottoms with that f#$kin Bottom Voice ya’ll be doin’ Honey. What, ALL bottom’s spos’d ta talk like that, Huney? Ya’ll b!tches is…TOO…Tired” LMAO!!

    Nah, again @Nick and @Ocky, awesome PodCast my dudes!!

  2. Discordant | February 2nd, 2015

    Aside from the fact that you guys used feminine and bottom interchangeably (and I’m glad someone pointed out that mannerisms and sexual position are not the same thing,) this was a pretty interesting discussion. I would have liked the panel open to masculine bottoms as well, because it seems some of our struggles are the same. My boyfriend is also “comfortable” around his friends and, even though he’s a top and dresses “like a boy,” will use gay lingo, etc. when with his friends, but is otherwise masculine by your definitions (into sports, is aggressive, has swag, doesn’t use “gay voice…”.)

    It does seem like we follow hetero-normative social structures for our relationships, at least in expectations of who does what with whom and how, but I’m curious to know where the balance is in these relationships when both men are not feminine or “inbetween.” I suppose where it works with me and mine is, I’m more of a “nurturer” and he’s more of a “protector.” I’m guessing that’s the “Softness” in masculine men are panelists were referring to or was it something else?

    • Rod Turpin
      Rod! | February 2nd, 2015

      I agree that I think it would have been interesting for the topic to include either some masculine bottoms, or some more aggressive feminine tops as part of the podcast, instead of the commonly-conflated masculine-top combination. A little more role diversity could’ve added a different, interesting perspective in my opinion. In fact, I was really hoping that there would be a fem top voice to the convo, as they’re probably one of the most underrepresented groups in our GBT male community.

      Nonetheless, this was a really fascinating podcast, definitely lived up to my anticipation. I’m looking forward to what the next topic will be.

      • Nick Delmacy | February 2nd, 2015

        Thanks for the feedback. Just to be clear, though: We included all who were brave enough to participate and were available. If Feminine Tops exist, they did not contact us to be included. As for masculine bottoms, the topic wasn’t “Masculine Gay Men on Dating in General.” Including a bottom would be like having a discussion with “black men on racism” and randomly including a white person. Having said that, maybe we’ll now have another podcast just for Bottoms to give their perspective.

        • Discordant | February 3rd, 2015

          Except you specifically included versatile men in your ad as well, granted, they didn’t answer your call. I enjoyed the podcast and hearing their points of view, as I enjoy this site’s point of view in general, but there seemed to be a pervasive mentality of bottom = feminine throughout the discussion (all the way from its inception.) Whenever you decide to do a follow up on the bottom’s perspective, you already have one volunteer. 🙂

          • Nick Delmacy | February 3rd, 2015

            Granted, during a few jokes we used the “gay voice” when speaking as a Bottom, but I wouldn’t say that necessarily meant “Bottom = Feminine” as a theme. Clearly Masculine bottoms were repeatedly acknowledged (and celebrated) in this discussion as all of the TOP participants stated that they prefer masculinity in their BOTTOM partners.

            • hannibal
              Hannibal | February 4th, 2015

              It was at the very least HEAVILY implied that bottom equals feminine

              • Ocky Williams | February 4th, 2015

                None of that makes sense. I will say maybe we can ease up on the gay voice. But I just find it so funny.

                • alton
                  NYCforEVER | February 4th, 2015

                  It’s f$%kin HILARIOUS because it’s not something that’s far fetched or grossly exaggerated. We ALL have heard the “stereotypical” gay voice on someone, in some place, at some point in time. Irony is that majority of people that are offended by people mimicking the “Gay Voice” are the same ones talkin’ shit about people ad nauseam regarding other (superficial) things; i.e their weight, their clothes, their hair, face/appearance, etc etc. EVERYbody expresses an opinion about something someone else has/does. I say keep doing the voice, yous don’t have to ease up on shit. LOL

                • Nick Delmacy | February 4th, 2015

                  Funny thing is, I also do a ignorant hyper-masculine gay dude voice but no one seems to have a problem with that. My voices are very specific to a character I’ve created in my head, lol. I imagine my Gay Voice dude to be a fem, bitter feminist that hates Cypher Avenue, interracial dating and anything heteronormative.

                • Awkward Black Boy | February 4th, 2015

                  Can we retire the word “heteronormative”? Can it just die along with “fleet” and “turn up”?

  3. SB3000 | February 2nd, 2015

    This was dope. Glad to have been a part of it. And btw, great editing @nick

    • African King | February 2nd, 2015

      I really appreciate that ending point you made about gay men and the apps. I am so over apps and I only used Jack’d for four days. You have a bit of an exchange then people talk about how horny they are. I do wish we as gay men had a longer attention span. Not to say all gay men just have sex on the brain before actually getting to know someone but DAMN. It does sure feel like that is all there is.

  4. BlackguyExecutive | February 2nd, 2015


    I thought this was an excellent discussion and the sample of voices was decent. I found myself laughing out loud at times. I don’t think there was significant bottom shaming in this Podcast either but I am sure there will be commentary.

    After listening to this I guess I am what y’all called an “in-betweener” (Needs a new name). I am not overtly feminine by any stretch of the imagination but I am sure that I have some qualities.I am not hypermasculine either but I definitely have parts of me that are set in my ways. I tend to be low drama as part of my personality but I am a little emotional (probably the Capricorn Type A). I tend intellectually driven, overachieving, and solidly middle ground. I can mesh well with all kinds of groups accept the polar extremes. I also think that in-betweeners just to borrow lingo from ball/drag culture are a mix between trades and butch queens (I recognize the extreme examples).

    The masculine men that I have dated have all been bottoms so I don’t think outward appearance is a solid characteristic and I think most of y’all agreed that sexual position is not a determining factor in masculinity scale. On the other hand, I wouldn’t be the open man that I am today without having dated a pretty flamboyant fashion gay. It really resonated with me when everyone discussed feeling comfortable to be in public. When I dated the flamboyant man he really forced me to be accepting of myself…he could not hide his gay and therefore me being with him in non-gay places meant I couldn’t hide my gay either. After a while I was to the point where I honestly didn’t give a shit. I would have been nice to have a masculine man who prefers feminine men on the panel. That insight would have been nice.

  5. thatGuy | February 2nd, 2015

    I was glad to be a part of it. Thanks @nick and @ocky. Can’t wait to do more!!!!

  6. JasonAKMitchell
    JAKM | February 2nd, 2015

    It was fun to do the podcast.

    I can’t wait for the chance to do another one, and share more. Thank God I found this site…a home for me to be who I am in all that I am.

  7. Coon_dalini
    Pensive | February 2nd, 2015

    Smh. So I’m in a relationship married or otherwise committed. I go get head from Becky and jack off with Tuan. I’m busted yet ,,I HAVENT HAD SEX?…… GTFOH!

    The things people are coming up with as a excuse to do what they want is ridiculous. Bill Clinton started this bull shit.
    Sex can rightfully be any activity done with another creature that’s getting you off and would have a significant other feel some kind of way if they found out.
    When I encounter people that think like this , I run. No way , no how , relationship material.

  8. hannibal
    Hannibal | February 2nd, 2015

    I’m listening to it now. My head is in process of exploding. Hmph.

  9. klothesmindedsince78 | February 2nd, 2015

    Awesome podcast – drops the mic…exit stage left.

  10. socalbtm
    socalbtm | February 2nd, 2015

    definitely look forward to listening soon as I have time

  11. SB3
    African King | February 2nd, 2015

    This was a great listen. I am glad it finally dropped. Now you guys need to do a BOTTOMS podcast lol

  12. TheRealJD | February 3rd, 2015

    This one was perfect for this rainy day at work earlier. Loved it 100%. As an athletically college football fit *inbetween* bottom like my brother Black Guy Executive I for one didn’t find it to be a bottom bashing episode, just more so one sided. For me it was mainly a case of “what do tops look for?” “is it all about the ass with a top?” etc lol and I feel I’ve received some answers finally lol. Yes E Lynn Harris (RIP) and B-Boy Blue really messed me up lol I thought pretending to be something I’m not (a soft spoken soft bottom that is constantly submissive with the “yes daddy” mentality) thinking my DL top husband will come from the heavens with the body of God, amazing career, car, home and we will live happily ever after….WRONG!! Lol no diss to those authors but its unrealistic and will set your standards super high looking for a pro athlete boyfriend, when in reality the manager at McDonalds wanna spit game but because you’ve read the latest BGC story you curve him.

    As for the dick sucking topic…I don’t let every top suck my dick because not every top can suck dick lol I like my sloppy top to be just that …sloppy with no hands lol. These guys take notes from straight porn and suck dick like its going to win them an Oscar lol (PS….”Straight” guys give the best head FYI). Same with fucking…not every top has good dick, just as not every bottom has good ass.

    All in all A1 podcast like I said before. I do think you guy’s should do a masculine bottom round table. May learn a thing or two! Also would be interesting to have a thick/chubby boy round table

  13. ControlledXaos | February 3rd, 2015

    Interesting that the tops would bottom for the right guy. Again I’m simple. So I just identity as verse. Whatevs.

    FemBots… Well clearly people are fucking them because I have never known,,, many who were at a lack for sex. Even the sloppy fat ones get play. But it goes back to that Late Night hook up, yes. Go with you to the grocery store, hell nawl!

    MascBots… I have only met one. I view them as three headed unicorns.

    On holding precious to penetration…for me, I do not necessarily need to wait months and weeks but it’s an invasive process so I need to form some type of trust with someone, even if I’m feeling them. Though I play tic for tac so if you are ok with it early on, I am too.

    On approaching guys… I don’t have a problem finding ways to initiate conversation with a dude. Guys do not approach me however. Which can be frustrating if you let it get to you. But as I say, Permanent Bitch Face is a thing and I obviously have it. Lol but it is nice to know someone notices you and has the big and hairies to step up.

    Good podcast. I wish there were more conversational ones mixed in with the traditional ones. The topics don’t have to be polarizing but it’s good to hear different POVs.

    • alton
      NYCforEVER | February 3rd, 2015

      LMFAO “Permanent Bitch Face”

      • ControlledXaos | February 3rd, 2015

        Pretty much.

        Other than wearing shades, I have no idea what to do. I am constantly thinking about something when I’m by myself so maybe my Thought Face is Permanent Bitch Face? Oh wells.

  14. Jronn
    J-Ronn | February 4th, 2015

    Decent podcast…

    one thing this podcast exposed IMO is that we as a community
    Conform to hetero normative tendencies more than some will admit.

    I heard somethings that made me SMH and something’s that
    Were excellent points.

    At the very least … At least a conversation has started from
    This podcast.

  15. uncommonicon | February 4th, 2015

    As a masculine bottom who recently started dating men (2 years ago) I’ve checked out the site off and on and I have to say hands down that this is one the best podcast that I’ve had the chance to listen to. I gained a knowledge from listening. I think its time for me to be more of an active member. Keep up the good work!

    • Ocky Williams | February 4th, 2015

      Thanks and please come back often and also check out our other podcasts!

    • thatGuy | February 18th, 2015

      Awesome dude…Welcome aboard

  16. Deacon
    Deacon CJ | February 6th, 2015

    What the HELL is a “In Between Guy”, this Podcast was all over the place, I gather the discuaaion topic was guys who consider themselves to be MASCULINE TOPS, which is different than guys who consider themselves to be TOTAL TOPS, however being a top doesn’t make you masculine just as being a bottom doesn’t automatically make you feminine. Just from the way you classified bottoms as submissives is somewhat telling that for this conversation you equated being a bottom with being submissive to mean feminine that to be a top you have to be “heteronormative”. I could be wrong but at no point do I recall hearing anyone respectfully acknowledge the fact men can be both a bottom and masculine. if the point was to discuss what it’s like to be a confident, aggressive TOP in the gay community I didn’t get that. maybe my disconnect comes from not believing all your guest were tops, or that my expectations differed from what was actually discussed.

    • Awkward Black Boy | February 7th, 2015

      An In between guy is a filthy creature. A mudblood that has both masculine and feminine traits. They are to be shot on sight due to their switcheroo ability.

      • ControlledXaos | February 7th, 2015


      • alton
        NYCforEVER | February 11th, 2015

        “FILTHY…MUDBlood!” lmao!!

      • thatGuy | February 18th, 2015

        Too f&^%ing funny. I’m gonna have to use that one

    • SB3000 | February 7th, 2015

      I actually pointed out that bttm doesnt mean fem,and if u see the comment way down below from @discordant, he points out that he was glad that someone pointed it out.

    • Nick Delmacy | February 7th, 2015

      “Maybe my disconnect comes from not believing all your guest were tops, or that my expectations differed from what was actually discussed.”

      You summed it up right there.

      You expected caricatures/stereotypes and didn’t get that. You only heard what you wanted to hear. Three ordinary men repeatedly said they prefer to be the aggressor in dating and prefer the Top role during sex, yet you didn’t believe them for what ever reason. They also stated they prefer Masculine men. So if three Tops say they prefer masculine men, that clearly implies the existence (and celebration) of Masculine Bottoms.

      • Deacon
        Deacon CJ | February 10th, 2015

        Nick your assumption of what I was expecting in the conversation is wrong…..I was expecting a focused conversation on Being An Aggressive Top, what I heard was a conversation that went off on tangents more focused on masc vs fem & so called heteronormative perceptions. Your statement shows your preconceived ideas of what you think others think a top is, was I looking to hear stereotypical caricatures no, do I question if all three of your guest were tops, yes, one out the three came off as trying to hard to give the percetion he was a top, that’s just my opinion. What I did expect was a conversation about what makes one an agressive top comared to being a regular top, I’ve heard this topic discussed before within the Leather community and figured your podcast would give a different perspective, what I heard for the 1st 30mins was conversation on masculine vs feminine, it was like a listening to an E Lynn Harris book on tape. The Conversation from there went to tops bottoming for the right dude, hook up sex compared to relationtionship sex, by the end of the 1st hour the conversation was more about bottoming in a realtionship than it about being An Aggressive Top. So much time was spent on what type of dude you would let top you, how he would have to be masculine, discussing how would two masculine guys work together, again nothing said on being an aggressive top. It was more conversation on masculine vs feminine, what a top looks like and what a bottom should look like to the podcast participants. Like I stated I was thinking it would be a conversation about being an aggressive top instead it was a conversation on being masculine from guys who consider themselves tops.

        • Nick Delmacy | February 10th, 2015

          Ah, Okay. Actually, we never advertised to deliver what you expected. In the original post calling out for participants, we listed exactly what questions would be asked. All of them.

          The original call also said this:

          “So if you’re an outspoken Top or Dominate Versatile gay man who’s not shy or afraid to voice your opinions, send an email with a brief reason why you should be included to with ROUNDTABLE in the subject line.”

          So it’s odd that you assumed our discussion would be similar to one had in the Gay Leather Community.

          Out of curiosity, what would even be the answer to the question, “What makes one an aggressive top compared to being a regular top” that doesn’t involve listing explicit sexual acts, hyper-masculine stereotypes and caricatures?

        • ControlledXaos | February 10th, 2015

          It was a conversation. Not a lecture.

          I don’t think they had a syllabus to follow.

          • Deacon
            Deacon CJ | February 10th, 2015

            It was what it was, nothing more….the back & forth does reminded me of one of the reasons why 2nd Sunday didn’t last in ATL…..everything isn’t meant for everyone.

  17. Inda Men | February 7th, 2015

    Great podcast guys!! Taking notes here!

  18. JodyBell87
    JodyBell87 | March 15th, 2015

    While I appreciate this topic, I think it’s only right to do a cypher with bottoms.

    I volunteer as tribute..

  19. Aejae
    Aejae | October 22nd, 2015

    I know I’m VERRRRY late in commenting on this, but I have to be honest. This (and the one you did with LastO) was probably my favorite podcast y’all have ever done, and I’m a bottom! It was interesting to hear what tops liked in a bottom and what they are really attracted to. I kinda took it as a lesson like I was in class taking notes. And a big shouts out to Jay! I don’t know if he’s a member of this website, but I have to say that he was my favorite! I can only observe from the way he talked that he was kinda more of the reserved out of the other two, and I think that he leans on to the one that I would prefer to be my “type,” if I could say that. Really love his dimeanor. Again, I loved the podcast. You didn’t even have to do one on bottoms if you didn’t want to because I already knew what the conversation was going to be about.

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