My partner and I recently got into a heated debate pertaining to an individual we know. During the debate my partner basically stated that I need to have more compassion and understanding. He also said that I’m too judgmental and sees things through a black or white lens with no gray. That’s not who I am the majority of the time but honestly, it just so happens this time, he was correct. This is what caused the debate.
I’m no longer friends with an individual; however my partner is still friends with the individual and they frequently communicate via phone and text. Who cares right? Well my partner was going to meet dude for lunch and that’s when my Alpha Maleness acted up. The reason me and this dude no longer share a friendship is because he is a scandalous mental nut case (I’ll explain below). With my Alpha Male knuckle dragging mentality I felt that my partner’s loyalties need to lie with me and I don’t want him talking to my former friend. In reality, I don’t care who my partner hangs out with and I know I was just being a douche because of the individual involved. In the end, my protest of “who he can and cannot hang out with” went in one ear and out the other….as it should but not before the debate ensued.
I brought up my former friend’s character and actions but the conversation soon begin to include other men that we know. My partner in essence said that he knows dude is a scandalous mental nut case but said it was not his job to pass judgment. If he is committed to being someone’s friend he has to accept them for who they are and be a shoulder to cry on when needed. He said he gives dude advice and continuously lets him know that he needs counseling. No disagreement there. He said the friendship would end between them or any of his other friends for that matter if any lines were crossed.
This article came about because of the next thing my partner said, which is something that I have also said in the past. He stated my former friend, along with other gay men that we know “are good dudes except when it comes to this homosexual gay shit”. Of course heterosexuals do wrong things but we are speaking in the context about dealing with some homo and bisexual men. Let me explain what this means.
A man is an all-around good guy. He provides for and supports his immediate or extended family. He takes care of his responsibilities. He doesn’t commit any crimes. Periodically he goes to church on Sunday. He helps old ladies cross the street and can leap tall buildings in a single bound…blah blah blah. Yep he is an all-around nice guy except when it comes to his sexuality. You see when it comes to his homosexuality he’s scandalous and messy. If he is in a relationship he is not faithful. If he is single, he seeks out men who are married or are in other gay relationships for sexual encounters. You don’t trust him around your significant other because he might make a move or he makes sexual innuendos. He likes men in relationships because he doesn’t have to worry about commitments and the fact the men in relationships are usually very discreet and secretive. Often he socializes in the same circles with the men he is having the flings with and is friends with their wife or spouse, who of course don’t know what is going on behind their back. Excuse my language for a moment…“That’s some fucked up messy ass bullshit”. This is a good person, how?
Some of the reasons for this type of behavior as described by the men committing them are; that they are sexually confused (even though they are 35 years of age or older). They have been hurt or victimized in past relationships and don’t want to be hurt again thus becoming a victimizer, Sexual Addiction or just overall insecurities pertaining to their sexuality.
You see said individual/s are great guys except when it comes to their insecurities and practices pertaining to their homosexuality. Many years ago, my former friend was in a gay relationship and he told me about the foundation and go forward strategy between him and his partner (also a nut case). Once they hit the five year mark of their relationship, they would seek out girlfriends in hopes to make them their wives and start families, all the while keeping their gay relationship intact and secret. All because both thought homosexuality was wrong and didn’t want to go to hell. Yes, seriously.
Six years later after threesomes and infidelity that was committed by both, my former friend’s partner (who was very active in his church community) got engaged to the pastor’s daughter. My former friend found out through social media that his partner was engaged and that their relationship was over. He was overcome with grief.
From almost the beginning to the end of their relationship he would call me and tell me about their problems. He felt he could seek my advice because I was logical, didn’t sugar coat anything and I would be extremely blunt and honest. I thought I could be and had to be because as men and friends, we should be. At any time throughout my “telling it like it is” I would always suggest therapy or counseling.
After his break up, the sexual encounters with married men continued. My “telling it like it is” went up a notch. My line of thinking was “now that you have experienced a devastating emotional break up, why would you participate in something that could end families? Why are you seeking out married men”? Our conversations were now tense and became inconveniences because my blunt ethical and moralistic message was now interfering with the gloating of his sexual accomplishments. Instead of taking time to address insecurities he side stepped and over looked them. Everything seems fine on the surface and in public but when alone he continues to live in unhappiness and unfulfillment. Up until the end of our friendship, I stressed to him instead of seeking married men, seek therapy. Our friendship ended because I was too judgmental, lacked compassion and understanding, (let him tell it) unlike my partner who many view as a father figure and full of wisdom.
My former friend grew tired of my constant ethical rants and moral condemnations. How dare I tell him that it’s wrong to have sex with a married man when you are friends with his wife? I dare I say you are a stereotype and a part of the reason why many view masculine gay men as hiding, being deceitful and on the DL? Over the years I grew tired of hearing the same man talk about the same issues while putting forth no energy to grow and evolve. Is he a good man except when it pertains to his sexual behaviors?
I don’t wear my sexuality on my sleeve nonetheless it is a part of the totality of who I am. My sexuality is not a personality or behavioral flaw. My morals and ethics don’t end simply because I am attracted to other men. My integrity doesn’t end simply because my penis gets hard. My insecurities are not an excuse (maybe a reason) for me to be deceptive and devious. I like to think my moralistic attributes and ethics are stellar. I take pride in them; therefore I hold my partner and my friend/s to those same standards. As an adult man, I do have some close acquaintances but currently I have just two people I consider friends; my partner and the co-founder of this website. I don’t worry about infidelity from my partner; if I did we wouldn’t be together. I don’t worry about my friend deceiving me, flirting with or making a move on my partner; if I did he wouldn’t be my friend. We share many of the same moralistic codes of conduct that should exist between male friends, brothers and lovers.
Our sexuality is not an instrument to be used for the mistreatment of ourselves and others. Strive to be a good person, regardless of your sexuality.
I’m a man and I’m a good person.
Sounds like classic compartmentalization. I agree with your assessment.
Wow. So can I ask you did he terminate the friendship or did you end the friendship? The reason I ask this is because when you speak of your moral code, I’m wondering if you feel that you could’ve continued with the friendship knowing the lifestyle he was living and the hurt it was causing to others? It’s a hard decision to make to end a real friendship and even more difficult when it’s because of your friends ethical standards and not something he is doing specifically to you.
I think I agree with your partner @Ocky, only because you didn’t mention anything your friend was doing to you specifically. Your partner probably has a different litmus test for what he can tolerate. Now if your friend was stealing from you or trash talking you or something similar, your partner would be wrong to continue to invite that type of person into your space via himself.
To the first question it was mutually understood. He got off the phone abruptly and I never spoke to him again. I was tired of being a broken record and attempting to be supportive of this degenerate lifestyle. Looking back to that last conversation (which was about him having oral sex with a married dude), I realize we were both attempting to hold on to something that had ended long ago.
Dude was toxic to me because I cared about his happiness and well being when he didn’t care about it himself. That’s energy I can channel towards me.
Ok. I gotcha. What’s weird to me is how this dude became one of your friends in the first place. Haven gotten to know you a little on this site, you seem to be very straightforward on issues like this and how gay men need to take responsibility for their actions. People usually gravitate towards friends who share their same sense of morals. Maybe he changed later in the friendship? But I’m so glad that you insisted on calling him on his bullshit because that’s exactly what it was. I hope your partner isn’t pacifying him and “babying” him because I’m sure your former friend knows that what he is doing is wrong. Actually, I think listening to his exploits over and over encourages him more because now it becomes entertainment to be shared among friends if you know what I mean. I’ve had situations similar, although with straight friends, and I usually give them my honest opinion and say I don’t want to talk about it anymore because like you said, it becomes toxic to you.
*sidenote* I’ve read you say several times you only have two close friends and you would like to have more. That’s probably all you need @Ocky. I’ve never had a lot of friends either. Like you, I have close associates, but 3 friends that I can really trust and it works. Trying to maintain closeness with too many people gets tiring. Like trying to split equal time with 15 kids.
LOL…well keep in mind I haven’t always been me. Meaning that I had to grow into who I am currently. I have done my dirt and been dirty also. Yeah I got a past.
yo, i love that word – toxic!
I actually, unfortunately, went thru this w my ex..after our breakup and attempt to be ‘friends’ period. He’d tell me abt all kinds of new fangled sht he was doin..no married men..but it still made me wonder what he got out of it. But he was lookin for easy attention post breakup. N I had to make it clear that me having a moral/karma/decency base was not bein judgmental..not 1 in the same..n im w u @ocky on this 1, 100..
@ocky for the very first time on this site, I feel nothing but anger and disappointment from the passage I just read. The description of your former toxic friend sickens me beyond words. And the total disregard shown to you by your partner pisses me off! If everything you detailed about your former friend is true, how in the hell can anyone take his side over yours? (Especially if that person is your current lover).
I can go on, but I’m seriously upset right now because I know the damage individuals like those can cause. I’ve seen the ruined marriages and drama filled elicit affairs. I’ve seen guys lose their damn minds behind dealing with married men. And I’ve also seen the single gay guy destroy relations. @Ocky, I agree 1000% with you my man. Don’t waiver in your resolve. You are RIGHT! and you partner if all f*cking wrong!
LOL…Don’t hurt em PB. I hope you have calmed down by now. Well my partner understands my position as I understand his and we respect each other so I’m good.
FYI; we rarely if ever talk about my former friend because he knows how I feel and where we stand but to what I eluded to before, He can hang out with whomever he wants, we are men. Also my former friend has never done anything personally to me that was damaging while we were friends. It was his behavior towards life, sexuality and how he treated others that caused us to basically terminate the friendship.
@Ocky, I’m with @BlackPegasus even though we got into on it Mused some months ago and I think he’s pretentious :).
If my man (which I have) were friends with a guy like that we would need to have a serious talk and I would be concerned. Listen, I remember there was a time when my younger brother was a complete asshole back in high school (stereotypical jock) and at first I couldn’t understand how he always had such a solid core of friends who thoroughly enjoyed his company and tolerated him. But I later realized that they were all seriously complete superficial assholes too, so that’s why they luxuriated in his company … they were all insecure bullies and abrasive homophobes. So I said all that to say this, that old cliche of birds of a feather flock together is sooo true. That was why you had to do away with your friendship with him … two completely different class of people babe (or in other words birds).
And people can say well nobodies perfect, we all got problems so therefore don’t judge. But the truth of the matter is if people really believed THEY WOULD BE ADVOCATING FOR NO PRISONS!!!! A wise man is constantly casting judgment to avoid unnecessary drama and to make sure he’s living the best life he can.
I mean would you be friends with a “cool guy” who has a habit of stealing indiscriminately? Or a “cool guy” who loves sleeping with underage children? Or a “cool guy” who likes beating up the homeless? Let’s not be delayed fellas …. stop…
@TheTruth, What are you talking about here? for one thing, A wise man isn’t constantly casting judgement on people. When I imagine a wise man, I imagine a figure like the Buddha, or Jesus, and from my knowledge, they did very little judging in their lifetime… I like to take a quote from Doctor Manhattan (the Watchmen): “Without condoning… or condemning. I understand”
Also, you’re committing a very popular informal logical fallacy called ‘Equivocation’ when you use the word Judge. When you first use it (we all got problems so therefore don’t judge), you’re referring to a judgement of the person (this person is bad, or this person is evil) However, when you further your argument to talk about prisons (if people really believed THEY WOULD BE ADVOCATING FOR NO PRISONS), you are using a different definition of ‘Judge’, in which you are judging the actions, not the character of the person. People are put in prison, not because they are bad people, but because they performed bad acts.. there’s a difference.
@The Truth – I’m “pretentious?” lol…really?
While I do slay many of them on MUSE Mag, I don’t recall arguing with you. And didn’t you once say you’d like to meet me? What gives? 🙂
Hold on Pegusus, pump ya wings in reverse bruh. My connection with this brother far exceeds what he does or with whom he does it with, THAT IS HIS BUSINESS! I don’t throw out the baby just because some of the shit fell out of the diaper and landed on the floor. That may be ok 4 u holy-r than thou brothas, but it aint cool 4 me. If he can deal with the consequences of his actions then so can I. He is his own man and has to answer 4 his own mistakes. I can tell em what he is doing is wrong til I’m blue n da face, but this is a grown man, & until he is ready to change, dammit, it aint gonna change. ALL of us have friends/buddies that have some out of this world shit wrong with them, but if without a doubt I know that, that a muthafucka would go to war for me then he is in, no questions asked. All of us also have some past indiscretions and it took a few of us a longer time to get over ours than others, but as fucked up as u may B, r might have been, somebody who saw u for the issue laden individual that u were or R, continued to stay there to kick yo ass back into play after the coach benched u for fuckin up. Living in glass condo’s & dropping boulders from 767 Dreamliners do not a good teacher make. (In short, after being the student and going through the difficult path of life yourself, don’t be so quick to toss away someone that is going through the shit of their life.) I make my own judgement calls, decisions, etc. and never ask for r need a co-signer… DUCES!
@G Andre – let me just state that my views expressed about the FORMER friend of your NOW boyfriend was delivered in the context in which his trifling antics were detailed on this article. I am the last person who will place judgment on others. My mindnumbing anger came at the behest of your insistence to remain friends with this individual despite the problems it was causing with the person you love. If this individual was a stand alone issue that didn’t involve others, then he would not reserve my judgment nor anyone else’s. But the fact is, his behavior does involve others and that collateral damage is the reason why I am pissed! @Ocky has stated that you and he are “good” so far be it for me to be angry about the situation now. Much luck to all three of you.
I commend you for sharing something so personal with us. Honestly, I don;t think it’s his sexuality that makes him fucked up. I think that he’s just fucked up as an individual. He doesn’t seem like a very dependable or responsible person and that belies sexuality. Those are deeper issues.
Yes. Well you know the saying; “hurt and damaged people, hurt and damage people”.
Wow people actually do those things (paragraphs 7 and 8 specifically)?! There is no way in hell I would allow someone like that in my space and I would definitely have had the same feelings as you toward the situation @Ocky. It’s not about judgement, it’s about making intelligent decisions regarding the people we allow in our lives, something we have full control over. I don’t know him but I doubt his homosexuality is the reason he does these things (things that would make me more than question the person’s character). His actions (which happen to be gay acts) are just manifestations of some f’d up stuff going on inside..
A lot of guys seem to think their sexuality comes with an alternative code of conduct
I really do like this article. I can relate to being a broken record to a girl that just could not get the message through her thick skull. No matter what I told her, she just would not listen. She would keep doing the same thing and not seek professional help. I left that girl alone and I have no clue what she’s up to now.
LOL see I was forward thinking about this article…meaning that if some other website wanted to repost it “@nick” in an article would seem out of place and to readers who are not familiar with Cypher Ave. I got us…see that’s that visionary stuff I be spittin hot fire about son LOL.
o yea?? @ocky – gif game proper..i aint got nuthin else to say homie…
I would like to read their version of the bible, because it clearly sounds like a Dr. Seuss book. Just because we are gay men doesn’t give us a pass on going after married men or shit like that. I will say that I was in that situation a while ago. I was messing with a guy who had a GF, but I was going through my “hoe” phase and didn’t care. That hit me like a ton of bricks after the fact. it had nothing to do with that particular relationship, but the overall re assessment of where my life was heading. I quickly pumped the breaks and followed my morale compass again, after I found it. Sounds to me like this guy will learn his lesson soon, as we all have, if he doenst learn it soon then it will hit him harder than a ton of bricks. Keeping your distance from guys like that is a good thing. Let them go through what they have to go through and let them move on.
That last statement is the key thing: Just because someone is still dealing with character issues in their lives doesn’t mean you have to join them. I have no problem eliminating ppl from my life that make me feel like I’m regressing. If not totally eliminate, then I at least move them WAAAAAYYYYY to the back of the line.
As far as men dealing with homosexuality, I get it…we all “progress” at different speeds. But that doesn’t make you wrong for not wanting to deal with Down Low Closet Cases looking for “genuine” friends if you got past all that years ago, especially if their ass is over 35 years old!
Loved this article. I am tired of gay men doing reckless irresponsible shit. Being gay is not an excuse to mess up families or manipulate people. Misery loves company and you are the company you keep.
Big ups for being judgemental and selective of the people you are around.
My grandfather used to say,”If you don’t stand for something, you will fall for anything”
People wonder why gays have a bad reputation. Stop equating DL and selfish behavior with homosexuality, they are really just traits of damaged people across the board. When are black people going to mature and seek therapy?
Wow this is unbelievable to me. This dude must have some serious issues going on if he can go to sleep at night and not feel the slightest guilt about what he is doing. I can’t even fathom how anyone would be okay doing some crap like this. Looks like he is acting out the pain he feels on the inside. The whole time I was reading this I was just irritated that he could carelessly do this and basically disrespect his friend which he obviously doesn’t care about. Being gay doesn’t mean we can live our life without having morals.
I just thought about an experience that a guy I was talking to had with his gay roommate and man this dude was foul. He had some serious issues that he needed to deal with. He was pretty much messing up the lives of others with no shame and hesitation. I cannot surround myself with others either gay or straight who don’t conduct themselves based on a sound moral code. I have a low tolerance for this. Those are the folks who don’t care the slightest bit about your life and will not hesitate to bring turmoil your way because they are so unhappy with their own life.
Articles like this make me feel less lonely when I make the same case to my “friends”!