CNN may have the missing Malaysian plane to obsess over, but we here at Cypher Avenue are fascinated with the prejudice and disdain displayed by Black Gay Men over a handful of interracial couples in the media recently.
This is especially surprising because, for the most part, the criticism has been based on what people are saying is a lack of black-on-black love being displayed in the media. As if these black openly gay men haven’t already done enough for representation by coming out publicly. As if a few popular black gay men dating white guys makes them inferior or “less than”.
“Disturbing Trend”
“Disproportionate Representation”
“I’m just like….. EWWWWWW”
These were just a few comments from black gay men posted on Cypher Avenue.
Why the disdain for white gay men?
The (closeted) black gay men that are calling Openly gay ground-breakers Michael Sam and Derrick Gordon “sell outs” on Facebook and twitter, are they actually just Bitter Bigots? Are they merely just thirsty gays wishing they could date a famous “wealthy” gaylebrity athlete?
The reason I say this is because we have seen MANY recent examples of Black-on-Black gay love in the media. We’ve posted many of them on this website. What other reason could explain why outraged black gay men are choosing to ignore them?
To highlight this point even more, in the following post we’re listing TWO examples of black gay couples that have been in the media for every ONE black interracial couple that has sparked outrage amongst black gays.
Interracial Couple #1. Michael Sam and Vito Cammisano
After years of dating, this awesome couple shared an historic moment together when Michael Sam officially became the first openly gay football player drafted into the NFL.
Black Couple #1: Deondray Gossett and Quincy LeNear
Together for over 17 years, these creators of the black gay television series The D.L. Chronicles recently married on the Grammy Awards to an audience of over 30 million people during Macklemore’s Same Love performance.
Black Couple #2: Octavius Terry and Jamal Sims
One is a wardrobe stylist/photographer, the other is a director/choreographer. They both are gay socialites in Hollywood who have no hesitation in showing off their extravagant lifestyles on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. They were also officially married on the CBS broadcast of the Grammy Awards to an audience of over 30 million people.
Interracial Couple #2: Derrick Gordon and Gerald McCollough
Black gays painted themselves when they saw the photos of 22 year old NCAA basketball player Derrick Gordon on the GLAAD Awards Red Carpet with 47 year old white actor Gerald McCullough. Although the couple (who had been corresponding for years) looked happy, many black gays were pressed and upset.
Black Couple #3: Kordale and Kaleb
The Hetero Black Internet had a simultaneous aneurysm when the photo of Kordale and Kaleb brushing a little girl’s hair began spreading online. Many black gays applauded the young couple, yet for some reason those same gays are now forgetting that they even exist at all.
Black Couple #4: Gee Session-Smalls and Juan Session
Friends of Cypher Avenue, the Sessions eloped in October 2009 and were the first black gay male couple to be featured on the HGTV series House Hunters. Since then they’ve hosted upscale social events in Atlanta and provide relationship advice on their popular LoveWorks website and YouTube series.
Interracial Couple #3: Jason Collins and Brunson Green
Although very private about his private life, openly gay NBA player Jason Collins eventually confirmed that he is dating Oscar nominated film producer Brunson Green. He also spent 8 years with his Caucasian college sweetheart and ex-fiance Carolyn Moos.
Black Couple #5: Dr. Ravi Perry and Paris Prince
Although the publication has now moved entirely to digital, Jet Magazine made history by featuring this black gay couple in their decades long wedding series in the December 10 2012 issue. Black heteros everywhere were just as outraged as black gays have been in reaction to the interracial couples.
Black Couple #6: DJ Baker and Eric J. Parker
Another friend of Cypher Avenue, openly gay Internet radio host DJ Baker has been hosting Da Doo Dirty Show, “The Longest Running LGBT-Geared Daily Urban Syndicated Radio Program,” for as long as we can remember. His show is a fixture in the black gay community giving us exclusive interviews with LGBT personalities as well as introducing the masses to many openly gay Rap and R&B artists. He’s been in a relationship with Eric J. Parker for over 5 years now and he regularly talks about their love and struggles on his show.
Interracial Couple #4: Shaun T and Scott Blokker
This hot married couple is smoking hot. No seriously. Its not even fair how great these guys look together. Everyone knows six-packed Shaun T of the “Insanity” workout videos. His husband Scott Blokker is no slouch himself, making the abs count equal an even dozen in their household.
Black Couple #7: Robert Brown and Nathanael Gay
This attractive black gay couple gave many black heterosexual Greeks ulcers when they released the video to their Crimson and Cream themed wedding. Many people called it a Gay Kappa Wedding because of Nate’s affiliation with the fraternity. They became a Twitter Trending Topic with the wedding video gaining more than 680,000 views. The couple subsequently appeared in interviews on websites like The Huffington Post and Ebony to squash the outrage from heterosexuals.
Black Couple #8: David Harris & Tre’Darrius Anderson
Speaking of wedding videos, teenagers David Harris & Tre’Darrius Anderson made history by becoming one of the youngest couples to ever get gay married back in January of 2013. Their wedding was featured on the Slice TV series, My Teenage Wedding. They’re still together and have since become advocates for making gay marriage legal nationwide.
We’re only halfway through the list and the only “disturbing trend” I see is that the black gay couples seem to be getting LEGALLY MARRIED a whole lot more than their interracial counterparts…So far the count is 6 married black-on-black gay couples to have been featured prominently in the media…yet there’s “Disproportionate Representation” between interracial and black gay couples?!
But wait, there’s more!
THE LIST CONTINUES! SEE MORE AWESOME GAY INTERRACIAL & BLACK COUPLES ON THE NEXT PAGE!
Umm..can we get the .gif of The Rock, next time? Ijs… lol
that is an awesome article! Thanks
Great post. *applause*
Thank you x5, brightened the rest my week!
Glad I could help homie!
Great points. Well executed #salute
Thank You for the post showing the differences. I have always been a proponent of interracial relationships. I have now problem with gay whites who date within their own, as well as black men who do the same. Just tired of people who have a problem with those men who date outside their own race. How does it affect them?
I’m for love.
I’m not for self hate.
I’m not bitter.
Let’s talk about the real issue that’s not being addressed.
No shade.
And that’s what a lot of them have self hate
That is the real issue being ignored in this discussion. It’s a lot deeper than people wanting to see images of black gay couples in the media. Although for some, that’s as deep as it goes. You can’t convince me that the black men profiled in interracial relationships have healthy self esteems. I know what self hate looks like.
And we know what arrogance and self-righteousness looks like. Who are you diagnose strangers and tell others what their relationships are really about? Bitter, racist, jealous, lonely gays who can’t get a man are constantly meddling in their affairs of others. What this is really about is projecting *your* self-hate onto others. You hate yourself, so of course that’s what you see in others. It’s really pathetic. Even if it *was* self-hate, of which you have no proof, how is their self-hate your business?
These guys are wealthy, happy, in love and fulfilled: you’re sniping and complaining about them from behind a keyboard instead of getting yours. And they’re the ones who have self-hate problems?
Unhappy people can never own their unhappiness: they blame their unhappiness on your happiness. Once you deal with your issues and find a man to occupy your time, maybe you’ll have a relationship of your own to worry about.
You actually proved the point of how media does prefer to showcase the interacial black couple before showing the black gay couple. Also your comparing apples to oranges when you are showing your “successful couples.” Millions of dollars compared to hundreds of thousands. I think you might not understand the point of the argument being made. THERE ARE NO PROMINENT BLACK GAY COUPLES IN THE MEDIA. There are though, plenty of interracial. There’s a problem…the idea of equating success to whiteness.
1st of all…you know what, never mind.
All of the black gay couples listed are successful too. The fact that you only equate success with the amount of money a person makes is a personal issue you have. The black gay couples listed have been discussed in the media as well, they are more publicly prominent than the average person. They may not be NBA players, but there are no openly gay white NBA players either. Being a huge international media personality and openly gay is still a rare thing, even for white people.
Yes, there are: remember Bishop Eddie Long and Kerry Rhodes. Oh, wait, their self-hate wouldn’t let them come out of the closet about their black gay relationships.
It’s funny that people claiming black guys in interracial relationships have self-hate, when really it’s the black gays doing the jealous complaining about the love lives of others who are the ones with hate issues, of self and others.
There actually are black NFLers, actors, NBAers in black-on-black relationships: they’re just too dishonest and cowardly to come out of the closet to be covered by the media. Those are the guys you should be whining and crying about — you can all examine the reasons for your self-hate together, while guys who are happy and out can continue going from strength to strength.
Just had to say loved this article, nit so happy with the manner in which you described the disappoint of some same gender loving people of color, but I am abosutely thill that you posted the very powerful and loving images of men of color.
Thank you for this! Hopefully this post will shut down all of those who complain that there aren’t enough examples of black gay couples in the media. My thing is even if there wasn’t I wouldn’t be that upset about it. I’m satisfied with the black couples that I personally know of that exist around me. This for me is more than enough. I honestly feel that if I didn’t see too many example of black love in my personal life this would impact me more than not seeing black love in the media.
Nope I’m still going to say it cause there is not the point is no coverage of black love black sgl couples high profile none
Ask any straight person who Don Lemon, Lee Daniels, Michael Sam, Jason Collins, and Shaun T are… 9 times out of 10, anyone who has a TV or internet knows who they are.
Now ask all those same people who Quincy and Deondray, Octavius and Jamal, Gee and Juan… or pretty much ANY of your examples are, and more than likely 10 out of 10 of them will have no clue.
That is NO SHADE to them, Q and D are my homeys… but its just a fact. They are known in LGBT circles, not mainstream media. And the mainstream images of Black gays are… men with makeup and high heels, or we are on the arm of someone outside our race. It’s not good or bad… its not a judgement. Its not bigoted, or biased… its just an observation of fact. And those images don’t reflect many of us.
And its NOT racist, bigoted or bitter to want to see yourself reflected in mainstream media… or to see at least ONE prominent Black gay male with another Black gay male. No one is saying interracial love is wrong or that they all should date only Black men. That is stupid. It would just be nice to see at least ONE prominent, mainstream celebrity Black gay man celebrate his love for another Black gay man. Just one…
And it would also be nice for other Black gay men not to beat up on those who desire the SAME acknowledgment and affirmations that everyone else does when they turn on their tv’s… to see reflections of themselves in mainstream media… not ALL the time, not to the exclusion of others… just inclusion.
Amen
This is just your opinion, though. There are a LOTS of people in this country who don’t know who Darren Young, Derrick Gordon, Shaun T or Lee Daniels looks like, or even their names…To be honest, I had to search heavily for images of many of these men and their white lovers. So to say that the images of these couples are all over the media is false. I know MANY white and black heterosexuals who saw this photo of Kordale and Kaleb way more than the photo of Derrick Gordon and Gerald McCullough.
You are crazy if you think that the Don Lemons and Shaun T represent us! White gay men want nothing to do with us outside of the bedroom!
Isn’t this the exact same argument or gripe Cypher Avenue has on inadequate black gay and “masculine” representation in the media?
I sense stone throwing in a glass house. Or am I wrong?
Idk…..
It most definitely is racist and bigoted to attack someone’s relationship on racial grounds. You can argue for diverse representation without tearing down others. Or at least I can. Bitter, angry people who aren’t fulfilled cannot.
If want to see more intrarace black gay relationships in the media, then you should be directing your fury at the dozens of famous blacks in such relationships who refuse to come out of the closet and/or deny deny deny when caught with another black man (see Rhodes, Kerry). Hmmm, could there be a psychological correlation between being confident and self-actualized enough to not let other peoples’ racism and homophobia direct your love life and the willingness to come out of the closet?
Talk about what would be nice: it would be nice for black gay men to be happy for other gays of any race who are in a happy relationship, instead of always finding new ways to rain on someone else’s parade.
P.S. And your premise is off — most straight Americans can barely name the vice-President, no way they know who Shaun T, Lee Daniels, and Don Lemon are. In what world?
I enjoyed the article immensely and even saw couples that I have never even heard of. The only thing I find odd is that clearly these men have been in media or work in some type of media-centric career so how could people miss them? Especially if one is very enveloped within media as a whole picture and not just one side or the other side.
To be perfectly honest, I still get both sides of the coin. While I personally don’t care who’s w who, I still liken it to black women’s gripe about how often you see successful black men w non-black women.
I think we’re in such infancy of seeing out gay couples of any race, that when guys like @viplister state their stance, it’s a ‘given’ that we’re supposed to not think that way, because ‘at least we’re seeing gay men openly displaying their relationships’.
I wasn’t even aware of many of the couples you included. Both, black and inter-racial. Great article!
I understand the author’s point, but I take issue with the notion that desiring to see black on black love in the media, or even acknowledging that there are more representations of interracial love in the media, is somehow bigotry.
As black people, we’ve always and continue to operate at a deficit considering the positive examples, thus models, we see of black love in the media.
The fact is that more brothers are not comfortable with their homosexuality because the images we see of such look NOTHING like us, and often mock “black & gay”.
The author seems to suggestion that we “stop making a big fuss, and be satisfied with the few we got!”
But there is indeed a phenomenon among black men to venture EXCLUSIVELY outside of our race to find love.
The author also seems to conclude that BECAUSE a black man expresses concern for the seeming dominant media image of interracial love, that we are somehow against it.
I am in a long-term relationship with another brother, and I will be here forever, no matter what.
With that said, I believe that young, black same-gender-loving men will find encouragement in more images of black on black love.
And we’d be fools to ignore the fact that many black athletes and celebrities, for whatever reason, do decide that they will never date another black man or woman, mostly integrating their white lovers’ culture rather than the reverse
Amen
There are a number of Ethnic groups who are unapologetic about only promoting relationships within their own Ethnic community such as; Jews, Hispanics, Italians, & Indians. These groups foster and expect their offspring to mate and marry within their own Ethnic group. It just so happens that these same Ethnic groups also have stronger family untits, and their offspring often fair better in life socially and economically as well. The truth is that White Americans and Black Americans have a relationship with one another that dates back hundreds of years. You cannot discount the psychological conditioning that has manifested itself across generations which in my hypothesis bears evidence to some of the behaviors that we witness today. Let’s not say, oh it’s just love when the psychosis of the mind could very well be pre determining your behavior patterns.
So much truth typed there, although probably falling on deaf ears. The authors of this site would rather label those that echo your sentiments as “bitter.” To address the psychological illness that drives many black men to chase after white meat (especially after they’ve realized any modicum of mainstream success- as exhibited in this post) is something the “love is colorblind” blacks are not even willing to acknowledge let alone discuss. It’s interesting how I only hear blacks (particularly males) adopting the “love who you love” philosophy. Other races simply do not do this. I still fail to see how making this observation makes one bitter.
I love all these post! You should be able to love whomever you like no matter what race they are. Love sees no color. We all bleed the same but come from different origins. I love all people…
Question to ponder beyond the Love is Love philosophy. In some of the most silent crevices of one’s mind, do we really believe that racial ethnicity plays absolutely no part in some individual’s decision making in regards to a romantic life partner? If so, then this collection of individuals is far more enlightened then say; Jews, Hispanics, Italians, or even Indians. For those Ethnic groups, racial ethnicity plays a huge role in romantic decision making. There is a prevelance of Black Men that consistently date outside of their race. I don’t think this conversation would even be taking place if Michael Sam was a Jew and his partner was Hispanic. The fact is that White and Black Americans are bound by hundreds of years. Their relationship was born from a violent and tumultuous time in our Nation’s history. A period that carries DNA and behaves like a recessive gene manifesting itself in the most peculiar of ways. Deep in our ( Black and White Americans) psychosis lies predetermined dispositions that dictate a number of behavioral patterns. There is an honest genetics based and sociological conversation to still be had around Black/White race relations in America and how those relations have impacted individuals, communties, and outcomes in America. It’s a complicated and difficult ball of yarn to unravel but we can’t just stick our head in the sand and say, oh Love is Love, and not address the Elephant in the room.
Well said
I am trying to follow your logic and connection to homosexuality.
“….The fact is that White and Black Americans are bound by hundreds of years. Their relationship was born from a violent and tumultuous time in our Nation’s history. A period that carries DNA and behaves like a recessive gene manifesting itself in the most peculiar of ways. Deep in our ( Black and White Americans) psychosis lies predetermined dispositions that dictate a number of behavioral patterns. There is an honest genetics based and sociological conversation to still be had around Black/White race relations in America and how those relations have impacted individuals, communities, and outcomes in America…”
A recessive DNA strings is a by product of America’s slave history? Last time I checked who same-gender loving people who reproduce at rates remotely large enough to create a recessive genetic string? What are these deeper positions that need to be unraveled?
What does what you are saying actually mean?
I am so glad to see all these sociologist, anthropologist, historians, and psychologist on this site. So much authority. I feel like I am at a peer-reviewed conference.
But I am glad that you wrote this piece because the growing sense of marginalization and shame was getting out of hand.
As a psychologist and researcher, I couldn’t help but laugh when I read this. LOL
Why should we just shut up and settle nope I will not as the media shove interracial gay relationships down our throats when there’s plenty single qualified black men showed us unknown couples i enjoyed but the point was there no showing much of black high profiled sgl couples or lesbein couples.
I can’t speak for everyone but, I personally don’t have a problem with a person dating outside of his or her race. I personally have even done it myself. But with that being said I’d being lying if I did not admit to sometimes questioning the motives of those who date EXCLUSIVELY outside of their race. In my experience when I’ve encountered black men and women who date exclusively outside of their race it’s often times because, they think less of the character of other black people. If a person thinks blonde hair, blue eyes, and white skin are aesthetically pleasing that’s one thing but, if a person believes those same features make a person more likely to be honest, intelligent, or faithful than someone who is black then that’s a little more than a “preference”.
I pretty much agree. I’ve dated interracially, too. I have no problem with interracial relationships, but I think it is categorically silly and disingenuous to pretend that some black men don’t do it because they’ve internalized negative beliefs about other black men. Are people actually denying this? Really?
Love this article, Nick. I’ve stated before, I personally don’t give a f@#k what someone else does in their PERSONAL life, be they celebrity or just plain ol’ Joes. I like to see black/black gay male relationships (ESPECIALLY two masc gay black men) and I like to see any other combo of interracial relationship, but that could be because I wasn’t raised to be discriminatory to anyone. Why should I limit my possibilities in an already difficult dating/relationship environment.
Where I do agree with some posters that say black men that date EXCLUSIVELY (white) men most likely have some sort of image issue, be it with themselves, with their black heritage, or with their perception of other black men in general again, that’s THEIR issue, not mine. I think PLENTY (not ALL, b4 some of yous get all “Up at Arms”)of black dudes (and a lot of latino dudes too) are fuckin ig’nant as shit and do stupid ass shit, stay locked up, stay callin’ women all kinds of b!tches and ho’s, stay ice grillin’ other dudes, stay talkin’ shit about any and everybody, stay walkin wit their pants under their knees and shit swingin’ everywhere(then wanna ice grill you for lookin’. Yeah, say some shit to me 4 lookin’ at u dude, I fukin’ DARE you LOL); but this doesn’t and will never stop me from being emotionally attracted to other black men, maybe cause me to be a little more selective but never discriminatory. I do understand the frustration, because it’s similar to masculine gay…
…dudes’ angst over the representation of the black/latin gay male in the media, but again, I don’t let that bother me. The Media is a fantasy world and if one is looking towards it for self-representation (in THIS country) then I feel sorry for you. Anyways, lemme just end this by saying I’m glad to see so many diverse faces of gay relationships.
I guess you’re feeling sorry for a lot of ppl then. There are plenty of studies showing that people are influenced by the media and the dominant views of society about their social group/identity. (Internalized racism exists like internalized homophobia/sexual prejudice does).
Interracial relationships have never bothered me for the simple fact that you can’t help who you fall in love with. To be honest, I feel like some people in the black gay community want a black gay couple that’s on the same level of Jay Z & Beyonce or Brad & Angelina to officially say “we’ve arrived”. Do people stop and actually think that maybe there might be some black gay couples that do exist but go unnoticed because those in the relationship don’t want their private affairs overly-publicized? I wish some gays would stop trying to live their lives vicariously through their favorite celebrity (or non celebrity) and put that same effort into finding their own boyfriends.
PS: Anytime someone says “I don’t have a problem with interracial relationships but ______________”, then guess what, you DO in fact have a problem with interracial relationships (gay or straight).
“I feel like some people in the black gay community want a black gay couple that’s on the same level of Jay Z & Beyonce or Brad & Angelina to officially say “we’ve arrived”.
THIS HERE…THIS IS IT!!!!
Lets call it for what the naysayers are saying it is.
Even though these black gay couples have been in the media they are not celebrities and therefore not successful and therefore are not good enough to be main stream representations of black gay love. Says who??
How about this for thought, fuck celebrities and stop looking for them to represent you. Yes it would be nice but its not reality. I would like to see Black Panther in the next Avengers movie…not gonna happen.
Wow, I actually reacted the same way “The Heteros” did when I saw Michael Sam and is boyfriend kiss. It felt like after all that pressure, the one that gets to celebrate with him is not even on HIS team!
After reading this article, I can see how a guy like Michael Sam would be attracted to something of a “lesser” physique and tone. If he’s around sculpted Black gods all day, I could see why he would want a ‘demi’ by his side.
That doesn’t even make any sense, bro. I think the one thing almost everybody (that’s nay saying this relationship) is failing to accept, is maybe Michael really finds dude attractive. Attractiveness is a COMPLETELY relative ideal, subject to each individual. Just because you may not think someone is on your level, doesn’t mean the next dude who may be just as attracTIVE as you are or more, won’t. My own personal tastes vary GREATLY and a lot of times what I may find attractive others wont, and vice versa. So I think that’s an unfair assumption to say that because he’s around “sculpted black gods” all day that he would want someone “less” than that (for any other reason than he’s genuinely attracted to and loves the dude).
YES! It is an unfair assumption; based on the only thing I know about Michael’s dude and that is purely a physical observation. We can only make an assumption in this case based on what we see because (to my current knowledge) no one knew his bf existed much less has anyone gotten a chance to interview this dude as of yet, right? Ok, So all we can do is react and let our perspectives change and grow. Isn’t this the intended outcome from this open display of affection? To change the minds and hearts of people around the world who react negatively towards this behavior? At least I am willing to be open minded. I wish I could say the same for more of my brothers.
There’s a lot of guys that don’t like overly muscular men…I’ve said repeatedly on our podcast that I prefer a slimmer guy…Not every gay man wants a “sculpted black god” believe it or not…Not every gay man wants a masculine guy believe it or not…Not every black gay man wants a black gay man, believe it or not.
Exactly, I totally agree with you! My disillusionment was in regards to the “Why” factor… There are only but so many reasons one man could be attracted to the next. This was just my theory as to why… I’m chillin’ in the shade….
Sometimes there is no reason Why…you just like what you like…I like black men with freckles…No clue why, I just do…So when I saw Derrick Gordon for the first time, even though he’s too tall and young for me, I was sold, lol.
I find your comment absolutely true. I think we as a community need to be more progressive in our views on relationships and stereotypes. People should love who they love regardless of color. Unfortunately, we find our love interests within the context of our present situations. For example, if I am predominantly around white people, there is a chance I will tend to date one. And vice versa.
As in siding with your comment, it’s refreshing to see that individuals look outside the color lines and date people based on whatever turns them on personality-wise. But then again there are those close-minded individuals who date white men based on the positive stereotype and look down on all black men based off the negative stereotype. smh
i’ve also noticed these couples vary in age.is anyone going to celebrate the fact that these guys show there can be long-term love for a sgl man at any age?
And if you meet someone of another race with whom you click,are you supposed to kick them to the say and wait for Black Prince Charming?
According to the detractors, its only a problem if you are wealthy or in the media spotlight…so average guys like us can freely date interracially and no one would care. Its like they need validation from celebrities on self worth. What they are neglecting to mention is that they likely wouldn’t date many of these brothers in interracial relationships because they are either TOO OUT, TOO SOFT, or NOT URBAN ENOUGH. If we were talking about a DMX type thug dating a white guy, I might be able to see their point. But all of these men in these relationships strike me as race neutral folks, comfortable around any group of people.
“Its like they need validation from celebrities on self worth”
our whole society is too obsessed with celebrated figures,and we look to them to represent our individual tastes in their personal lives,rather than appreciating their work.Then again,I bet a lot of us didn’t even know who some of these guys were yet there’s still a backlash on who they date.
Exactly. Gays that never watch the NBA, NFL or NCAA are pressed about a person they never knew existed chose someone who didn’t look like them. And they don’t give credit if the sig other is non-white like latino or asian…if they’re not black, its self hate. lol
In light of only 14 percent of the entire US population being black including mixed race (and what portion of that percentage is gay men … if only 5-10% self identify out of the whole US), a gay interracial relationship is not exactly an unlikely scenario. And so maybe people are too quick to condemn it.
Having said that, a lot of people are avoiding the very real conversation to be had around media representation, image and self image in the sexual marketplace under the guise of preferences. Preferences are ok, but given this country’s racial contexts do need to be examined.
Why are Yall pressed? Are you mad bro?
Um nice try babe but every single black couple is a nobody in the entertainment world, when all the interracial couples are in the news today. Again another failed point. #sorryboutit #tryalittlehardernexttime
Representation only matters if they have a certain status?! There aren’t many superstar openly Gay people period who are known except for Ellen, Anderson Cooper and a handful of others. Most of society is straight. discreet or closeted, even white people, believe it or not.
Sorry babe not everyone is a celebrity whore nor does everyone judge a person’s self worth based upon their entertainment TMZ value. #growthefuckup
LMAO!!! WORD
Wasn’t that the point of the argument? Gay black CELEBRITIES who are in interracial relationships. Folks were called bitter for raising a eyebrow to the situation and at your defense for calling fold bitter, you gave examples of nobody black CELEBRITIES. You not there yet to be coming for me. How you can get there is giving me at least two relevant gay black CELEBRITIES who are in a relationship with a man of African decent. #nicetrythough
Maybe the “relevant black celebrities” in intra-race relationships, like Kerry Rhodes, need to stop hiding and come out of the closet.
Michael Sam is relevant because he had the courage to come out. It’s not his fault blacks who date blacks are chickens**t — and I’m pretty sure Michael Sam’s lack of self-hate influences both who he dates and his willingness to be open about it, in contrast to the self-hate and haterade of his critics and the black guys in same-race relationships who are too scared to come out.
“Haterade” Lov it, my dude. LMAO We as a community have the Haterade biz on lock (sadly).
It’s a shame, and it’s because many black gays have not confronted, processed, and overcome 1. the shame of virulently homophobic upbringings and 2. the betrayal of having the gay community condition us with messages — subliminal and overt — that black is ugly and inferior.
When you develop a fully-formed, self-actualized sense of sense and personal well-being, all that BS fades away because three major things happen 1. You stop worrying what the world thinks about both you and your choices that are nobody’s business but you and yours, 2. You become happy with yourself and 3. You thus feel happy for others.
The irony is it’s only when this happens that you become attractive to others, because people are drawn to happy, confident individuals: it’s not other people thinking you are unattractive that makes you feel unattractive, it’s buying into that which makes you *actually* unattractive.
I started getting approached by more and more people the same day I figured out in my head (with help from friends) that “it’s not that deep, people are not out to get me, and even if they are — who cares? Imma do me.”
Happy people are too busy being happy with themselves and their own fulfilling lives to be upset about what Michael Sam’s doing. In fact, they are happy for him. And they can actually argue for their priorities while still being happy that he is happy.
If we want to be accepted as attractive, first the defense mechanism of projecting our…
LOL!!! Really??!!! I want to say more, but I won’t.
Until Dj Baker gets a congratulatory phone call from the president for breaking a barrier none of us thought we would ever see broken…this list is a series of false equivalence. until kaleb and kordell do a bit more than post pics of them doing their kids hair this post gas no purpose. Bottom line we gave no out gay black public figures dating black men. The white men get Jason Collins and Michael dams…we get Kerry Rhodes. It’s problematic
I’m not mad, but judging by how many articles you’ve written on this..you might be.
In two whole years I’ve only written two articles about interracial dating. That equals a lot?! LOL
I knew the list was an epic fail when they included two men who don’t even sleep in the same bed because they want to protect their daughters from the evils of two men sharing the same bed.
Kordale and Kaleb came out to their kids last year.They are engaged now and their book comes out this week
I just looked it up on Amazon and sent myself a sample via kindle. Might go ahead and buy it.
The white media and community reached out to them…where were the blacks??? Sam’s family mainly dead or in prison, left him homeless. The only people that reached out to him where a white family that gave him a roof over his head, food to eat and taught him chores. How many gay black guys do you think were out…at the GD university of Missouri?? I can’t imagine dating a black ghetto guy in the DL so he can swim in the self pitying misery he left is particularly healthy or inviting to him.
He wanted to be out….how many black media people make it their business to find these guys? From what I’ve read, many of the gay black talking heads, think that it is not important to be out and proud.
With Collins…why didn’t they reach to him? The guy is docile, awkward, kinda socially inept and a real placid guy. What is there not to approach? But the black community have not reached out….
There seems to be a tick-list of what qualifies as black in the black media. It’s sad because if any of these so called black crusaders have a knowledge of Africa..you know the motherland..they would realise that temperaments like Collins are very Senagalese, not so called white.
Such a lack of knowledge of what it means to be black.
Mali in West Africa has some of the oldest books in the world…..sigh.
Wrong you are, sir! Love is love is love. That is a person of one ethnic/racial group can come to love a person of another ethic/racial group and that’s fine. On the other hand, we know that there is a tremendous amount of self-hating racism among African Americans whereby they hate black/African features-dark skin, broad noses, full lips and strong/nappy/tightly coiled hair. And because of that self-hating anti-black racism, they see is superior/preferred white/European features–pale skin, pointy noses, thin lips and stringy hair. I don’t know whether or not, for example, Shaun T’s affection of his husband is influenced by this self-hating racism but I do reject racism in all its form and all its permutations. ( I do suspect that his affection of his husband is influenced by that racism because in the USA, we swim in racism/racist media all day, every day.) So, I cannot agree with your attitude “as long as they’re happy, good for them”. I say “As long as they are happy and not influenced by racism, good for them.” I reject racism in all its forms and permutations–even if it is disguised as “just love”. And I invite you to reject racism in all its forms and permutations.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_and_Mamie_Clark “The Clarks’ doll experiments grew out of Mamie Clark’s master’s degree thesis. They published three major papers between 1939 and 1940 on children’s self-perception related to race. Their studies found contrasts among…
Can’t we all just have different opinions. Nick, you said (in a comment on an article earlier this year) Ocky wouldn’t want to chill with a softer dude like Tariq, should we beat him over the head for this, no. Some of us don’t want to date white men, that’s it. Some feel that a lot of black gay men in the NATIONAL spotlight (I am not talking about levels of success and money) are with white dudes, that’s it. We all feel differently about different things. I think we all can agree that black gay couples exist (all the black guys I know except two date them). I have no problem with IR couples, however it does seem that every time a black guy comes out and its a national spectacle, his partner is white. I mean, that’s it, it has nothing to do with value placed on celebrities, insecurity or what I think of myself and my man, its an observation (at least for me).
The criticsm we’re responding to on the site is that in which black gays claiming that black-on-black couples are not shown in the media. This article was to highlight the ones that have been shown in the media as gay relationships, despite the claims that only interracial couples are seen. The Huffington Post is The Media. Jet Magazine is The Media. The Grammy Awards is The Media. Twitter and Facebook is The Media. Cypher Avenue is The Media. We can’t help that some gays seemed to be obsessed with wealth only equaling success. Or thinking that persistent exposure equaling representation. I bet you could count on no more than 2 hands the amount of times you’ve actually seen any of these black men actually with their white lovers. So when people claim its epidemic, I laugh.
I know the bitter black critics which the author is speaking of. I’ve seen several people shun interracial gay couples, but a week ago they were attacking Donald Sterling for his anti-race mixing message. At a level, it’s hypocritical. Love who you love.
I’ve also seen the question: “Why aren’t there more black male gay couples in the public eye?” Well, there would be if more black gay men stood up. Example being Kerry Rhodes. He had opportunity to be in exactly the same position Michael Sam is as the first openly gay NFL player. But when his black gay lover was brought to light, he choose to dismiss the boy and destroy his happy relationship, rather than stand in his truth. We can’t demand others represent black SGL couples and at the same time recoil into the closet based on stigma and DL mentalities.
If we’re really real about it, I’m sure that we can all name a dozen SGL black gay couples who have hidden their relationships in order to “protect” their fame. Because of my proximity to Hollywood, I can name several dozen black DL men who are in relationships with black men, but run around with beards to conceal themselves. Maybe we should challenge these folks instead of letting Michael Sam’s happiness be the source of our anguish.
You are right with the Kerry Rhodes things and definitely right that there are probably many closeted black gay male “famous” couples.
Well said. Nothing to add, really.
1. What a fucking dumbass headline. Seriously.
2. “These 14 Popular Black Gay Couples” — So, just like in gay porn, “black” includes anything with a black person in it, including interracial couples who are considered now “black gay couples”?
Mr. Delmacy, if you have an agenda to push promoting interracial relationships, do that; however, don’t engage in intellectual dishonesty by engaging in false equivalence to make that point.
Have several seats. Wimbley Stadium, at that.
There are 14 black gay couples and 7 interracial couples…a total of 21 couples altogether…the article spans 2 pages…read a little more before commenting…
OK, I’ll admit I didn’t see the second page and completely forgot about Karamo getting engaged to a black man.
To be honest I am really tired of this subject.I could care less if a Black man decides to date or be with another race because at the end of the day it his life to do with it as he wants.However my preference has been and always will be a Beautiful Black Brother.The History between Black and White is one that won’t let me step out of that and even think about being with a White man.You can assert that Brothers are Bitter which I don’t agree with because Yes some of us are tired of seeing that everytime a Black Gay male of Prominence comes out he always is with a white man or some other ethnicity.You forgot to mention our lesbian Sisters Robin Roberts and Wanda Skyes who when they came out it was revealed that they also had white partners.The examples that you mentioned of Black Gay Love is mentioned where ? The mainstream media ignores the Fact that this type of Love even exists and therefore is always so eager to promote Interracial love.This same thing happens in movies,television or whenever a Gay male character is introduced into the storyline. If there was more of a balance then maybe you wouldn’t see the Brothers having anything to say about this.
Now that I think about it, I was just being a bitter b*%ch. I get moody at times. However, I do keep my sentiment that the interracial couples make MAINSTREAM gay media while the black on black couples make black gay media.
I think these gay couples makes more relevant and so glad they are in the media. They are from different spectrums of life that show diversity. It’s 2014 if you are uncomfortable that’s on you not them.
I don’t a problem with any of the black men in the interracial relationships presented here…except for maybe two. Don Lemon is, often, the go-to guy when it comes to black people/black communities and their feelings on some subject. I can’t help but wonder how his relationship influences his relations/interactions with other black people. Also, if Frank Ocean, who’s been promoted as this new “icon of hip hop” only “dates interracially” then what’s his true connection to the black hip hop community-at-large and how does that influence what he has to say in his music. Mind you these are questions that i wonder about with regards to straight blacks who date or marry interracially, as well. I think it’s useful to remember that, when it comes to people like Michael Sam, the communities these guys grow up and thrive in also influence their choices in mates. Who supports your choices, your livelihood, your personality(in addition to outside media images) influences mate choices. Considering most of the black “celebrity” gays in this article only became so AFTER they were already in their relationships, i don’t see why anyone would be mad.
love is a beautiful thing. cant wait till the day we stop fixating on race.
Its a big part of the problem that many black gays are negatively saying “The black couples on your list are NOT FAMOUS ENOUGH to compare to Jason Collins and Michael Sam” instead of positively saying “Its beautiful that so many black gay brothers are happy and MARRIED! We as a community need to make sure EVERYONE knows who they are!”
See the difference? It all stems from either bitterness or jealousy. ALL of these couples are positive representations of homosexuality. Let’s make them ALL household names like GLAAD and mainstream gay organizations/groups do for Caucasian gays.
Nick, I can definitely sense your frustration but, the truth is a lot of the same arguments you are making here are the EXACT same arguments that can be made regarding the “masculine vs feminine” discussions that are a big part of this site. The truth is there are positive images of masculine gay black men out in the media every day BUT those men are not always as PROMINENT as their feminine counterparts JUST LIKE many of the couples you showed are not as prominent as Shaun T and Jason Collins.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to see someone or something that better represents them in the mainstream media. It doesn’t make a person bitter, angry or jealous for wanting that and honestly, if that were the case this would be one of the most “bitter, angry, and jealous” sites out there. And bitter and angry is definitely not what this site is about.
The truth is there is still a lot of negative sentiment towards the black man out there in the world. And there are a lot of small minded people who aren’t going to see a happy couple who just happens to be interracial. There are a lot of naive people out there who see an interracial couple and instantly assume that the source of the happiness and stability in that relationship comes from the non-black element in the relationship. So, I think that’s where some of the eyerolling and cringing comes from sometimes. On one hand you want to see people happy but, on the other hand you don’t want to see that…
“the truth is a lot of the same arguments you are making here are the EXACT same arguments that can be made regarding the “masculine vs feminine” discussions that are a big part of this site.”
This is NOT true. We are saying that it is totally fine for a black gay man to date white men…even exclusively if they want to. That’s the same thing we have ALWAYS said about masculinity. It is okay for a gay man to date masculine men…even exclusively. Same applies to dating effeminate men.
The people in opposition are saying, “No, you must date people who look like yourself, otherwise you are self-hating…especially if you are prominently in the media.”
They want to see themselves in the lives of famous people. Yet many of the “real life” examples on this list were seen as “less than” merely because there names were not currently on the lips of news reporters.
“They want to see themselves in the lives of famous people. Yet many of the “real life” examples on this list were seen as “less than” merely because there names were not currently on the lips of news reporters.”
How is this not the same thing that the site based on? You constantly point out in article after article how you want to see more masculine black gay men in the media. You want to see greater balance.
And why do you want to see that?
Maybe a better representation of your experience in the media?
There are tons of masculine gay black men who are out there in the world on twitter, facebook, and in various web series. Yet I constantly hear the call for more balance on this very site.
That is the same thing. They are just saying it would be nice to see more representations of gay black men in relationships with each other in the mainstream media. No one is denying the value of the couples you showed. Their love is beautiful and special just like anyone’s but you know realistically that having your story be a blurb in Jet magazine or a cute picture with your kids going viral on facebook is NOT the same as having your story splashed on the Yahoo! front page or Huffington Post.
Yup I completely agree!
We call for more balance of masculinity by gay men because (like you stated) masculine men DO exist…yet are being ignored…That’s the SAME argument I made in the article! Why are gays ignoring that the black-on-black couples exist and only focusing on 7 or 8 interracial couples?
I listed 14 black gay couples and all you and others can say is “they aren’t famous enough” and “its not the same thing.” If you actually wanted more balance you would herald these couples and work hard to make them just as “famous” as the interracial couples that have enraged you so much.
Nick, no one is ignoring or dismissing these couples. All that is being said is that it would be nice to see gay black couples more prominently shown in the mainstream media. That is all that is being echoed over and over again. For some reason you’re acting as if we are saying the black-on-black couples you presented are less than. No one is saying they are less than. All that is being said is they are not as prominent. The media outlets they are being seen in are in some cases not as prominent or as well known as the places you may find their interracial counterparts. Its simple as that. I mean between Don Lemon on CNN and Kamaro Brown on OWN who do you think is more well known to the average American? One is clearly more prominent than the other and that’s it. No one is saying that these people are not important or valid.
“If you actually wanted more balance you would herald these couples and work hard to make them just as “famous” as the interracial couples that have enraged you so much.”
First, off the interracial couples shown in this article do not “enrage” me as you put it. The only point of my responses have been to as respectfully as possible state my opinion and try to explain why myself and some others may wish for a few more black gay couples in the main stream media.
Black gay men like to claim (read lie) that the black community is not homophobic or any more so then the white one and ALL of our woes are solely based on the evil evil white media that only cares for the whitey white people.
Sooo, since the black community is not homophobic, what are all you guys doing to get funding and support to start up black versions of companys like GLAAD? Huh? Whaaat? All those black diva’s….can’t the spare some chaange since they LOVE deh ghays??? Whaaat? I can’t hear anything.
Funny but it seems to me that Media Take Out or Bossip or Sandra Rose spend every available time putting down and belittling gay men like the ones you just mentioned. Can any of you name ONE white media outlet that does that?? Any??
In fact, white media is the only reason Frank Ocean or Michael Sam are able to breathe without having a boulder across their chest, inspite of black media IGNORING them or belittling them for being gay.
If they were smart, they’d stick to who is reaching out to support them.
This is the most ignorant drivel that I have read out of all of the posts! Are you serious? It was white gay people that stole and treated black gay men like crap! You know this and yet and still you want to deny this! The white gay community has never supported black gay men or people!
Why would you think that it would be stemmed out of “jealousy” and not frustration at a particular group of men who are white men who continually seem to steal from black culture? THEY made these “rules” and such! Stop pretending that most of these so called interracial couples is anything more than a fetish. All you have to do is look at the history of gay racism and you get my point. Sometimes, I think that black gay men can be so stupid at times for believing that he or she is welcome within the white gay establishment
Let people love who they want to love and be allowed too.
I’ve said this before and I’m still waiting for a discussion on it . If anyone thinks there is a lack of black on black love portrayed in the “media” heterosexually (?) ,given the power the gay community at large has overtly and under cover, do any of us think that stable black on black “gay”relationships will be portrayed front and center?
They can’t afford ‘us’ to get any smarter and savvy with money and influence than they are. The MONEY has to flow back to white hands.
Whether it is heterosexual or gay , we are to be seen as dysfunctional more often than not as a unit. Blacks unifying in any way on any platform is a threat.
Black Fems , and successful or otherwise high profile blacks in interracial relationships will always be favorites of the media.
We need to dwell more on the reasons for THAT. Why are expecting the system to be in favor of strong black men of any sexual orientation when overwhelming evidence proves that will never happen?
These people believe in evolution. And according to them their very survival as a race is in the balance.
The sooner we as men recognize what we are really up against. And stop fantasizing about what the “media” can ,or should do for us, we can move on to more productive discussions like our FINANCES and happiness in our RELATIONSHIPS.
We have to handle our OWN business in these areas. And not care about a system that wholly doesn’t care about us.
Let’s discuss what they clearly don’t want to see us achieving.
“And stop fantasizing about what the “media” can ,or should do for us, we can move on to more productive discussions like our FINANCES and happiness in our RELATIONSHIPS.”
yep…this right here; however we can have more than one conversation but still you make valid points.
For us to do this discussion justice, we’d have to all be honest and stop with the politically correct rhetoric. For the “you can’t help who you fall in love with,” crowd- just know that statement is a complete fallacy. You actually have more control over who you love then you’d like to think. You all are conveniently ignoring the effort you have to put into “falling” in love. To fall in love, you’d have to first be open to at least getting to know the other person. You’d also have to interact, spend time, and communicate with that person. This is all takes effort… on your part. You all act as if love is an airborne virus you can catch from riding the NYC metro. That’s SARS, not love.
It’s disingenuous to act as if these black men were helpless victims of interracial dating. This is just not the case. What’s not being said (by most) is that most of them were actively seeking non-black partners for whatever reason, usually to relieve their own insecurities. The bystander argument is not applicable in this discussion.
No one but you are saying they are victims! To say that is to say their relationship is a negative thing that happened to them. We don’t think that! Yes, they actively pursued a relationship with white men, but who cares? Why are you stuck on limiting black men to only dating black men? Must they also only date dark skinned men? What about biracial men, are they allowed? Why must we “stick to our own kind?”
Because Nick…if you date outside your race then that means “You hate you black skin…you hate yo’ black pants, yo’ black shoes….YOU hate BLACK PEPPAH!! LMAO…
EH…was supposed to be a GIF but it ain’t showin.
LMAO!
LMAO Why The F#$k MINE didn’t work? LOL BUt yeah, that’s pretty much how it’s seen if a black dude even THINK about f$%kin with “Other”.
Right and we’re talking about 10-12 people at the most out of millions. Who cares! And its not like all of these men were ONLY dating black men then started seeing white men as soon as they became famous. They were dating white men when they were flat broke nobodies too!
Exactly. Not for nothin my dude, but this topic of discussion is along the same lines of religion…NOBODY is ever going to COMPLETELY come to a mutual consensus, a complete agreement as to why shit is the way it is, nor come up with a definitive root reason/cause of any of it. I personally just see it as entertaining convo to get me through my work day, muh’f#$kaz gonna think they way they wanna think no matter what LOL
The answers to your questions are not simple ones, but I’m going to keep them as brief as possible, as I don’t want to be accused of writing a dissertation.
NICK: No one but you are saying they are victims!
This is not true. Quite a few of your discussion participants are saying just that by declaring “you can’t help who you fall in love with.” What they are saying is “it’s not your fault you fell in love with a white man.” Which to me is akin to saying “it’s not your fault your home was burglarized” see the connection? Both imply victimhood. The former statement is BS propaganda constantly on repeat to brainwash black people to work towards their collective demises. The conditioning works, just look at the blissfully ignorant black men commenting on this thread.
NICK: Why are you stuck on limiting black men to only dating black men?
I’m not stuck on limiting black men; however, I won’t ignore the fact that this interracial pairing is more than just a coincidence. More often the root of this behavior is psychological damage. Identifying this is not bitter hate. My problem is that black men are so easily mislead, and many mislead each other. We are programmed to advance other peoples’ interests at our collective expense that we are not even consciously aware of it when it occurs nor the social consequences of doing so.
“root of this behavior is psychological damage.”
Please sight your sources for this fact that you keep stating in reference to these black men in interracial relationships displayed in this article. No generalizations about the black community but recorded sources on these specific men. If you can’t its speculation, hearsay and gossip. Which are some possible byproducts of those that are jealous or bitter. This can be sourced.
*Sigh* The fall back “site your sources,” request. I knew it would eventually come to this. It’s funny how I don’t see this request from any of the posters that are generalizing with more “mainstream” (pro-interracial) comments, but it’s all good.
Anyway, I don’t understand the utility of your requesting references for research done on EACH of these men individually, as my contribution has been about the psyches of black people as a collective, not as INDIVIDUALS. These men are part of that collective. I think you knew before you made this bogus request that no such research exists on these men as individuals, and even by some slight chance there is research on them, the test subjects are NEVER personally identified. Critical analysis will tell you that when you start to see TRENDS, that means that there bigger social forces at play than mere individual choices. Nice try though.
However, my position still stands. So, OCKY, if you are truly interested in better understanding my position, I will be happy to give sources. But let me warn you, for those that don’t like long reading (dissertations), you probably won’t like these sources either. They’ll be books, not tweets.
There is a character count limitation on the site for a reason. The rules clearly state to not try to subvert them by posting multiple back-to-back comments. You must condense your thoughts. We don’t like seeing long blog posts and dissertations in our comments section.
http://cypheravenue.com/site/comment-section-tips-and-rules/
my bad…I did this (followed up one post with another post) on another post, myself.
This is a good topic so we’ve been letting a couple slide (even those that disagree) but this guy posted 3 or 4 long back-to-back comments. That was pushing it.
I apologize for that. I got a little heated and feel I was being a little backhanded there. I just noticed one of mine got deleted as well.
Last year readers told us that the comments section is intimidating to read if there are huge chunks of text everywhere. So we made the rule.
My bad, I wasn’t aware of your commenting policies. But seeing as how you deleted my responses to the SIX questions you asked me directly, I see you did not want/expect a thoughtful answer.
So as not to break the rules, and since you allowed the first two responses here are my very short answers to the rest your questions:
NICK: Must they also only date dark skinned men?
Not applicable to the discussion.
NICK: What about biracial men, are they allowed?
Depends on their consciousness and identities as biracial men
NICK: Why must we “stick to our own kind?”
Because it’s best for our long-term collective success
NICK: Yes, they actively pursued a relationship with white men, but who cares?
Apparently a great number of us do, or there would not have been 3 back to back postings dealing with the subject of interracial dating, with each post garnering well over 50 comments each.
NYC, with all due respect I think you’re directing that question at the wrong person. That comment regarding psychological damage was posted by “Straight_Up” not me. My stance on this subject has simply been that it would be nice to see more prominent black gay male couples in mainstream media. And to answer your question. No, I don’t feel dating outside of ones race period is a sign of psychological damage. In fact for the sake of honesty that would make me a hypocrite. Now, dating EXCLUSIVELY outside of your race that can be debated heavily and even in that case I wouldn’t be as harsh as to call it “damage”. I’d probably refer to it as negative associations and conditioning.
Now, like I stated in a previous post if someone is attracted to blonde hair and blue eyes there is nothing wrong with that. However, if a person believes that blonde hair and blue eyes makes a person more likely to be honest, faithful, or intelligent then that’s cause for alarm.
Question, Trey… Does this psychological damage that leads to Black Men wanting to date outside of their race only apply to black men that date white men as well as black men, or does it apply black men that date ANY other ethnic group as well as black? I would surmise black men that EXCLUSIVELY seek out white male companions most likely do suffer from some damage, but what about black men that date ALL spectrum of ethnic background and you just so happen to come upon them at a point where they happen to be with…a light skin spanish dude, or an olive toned West Indian. If we look at the situation in reverse and say, a spanish dude that ONLY dates black guys, is he fetishizing(is this even a word?)? Or a white dude, that grew up in a primarily black environment and had little contact with other white people aside from his immediate family (whom also came up in said environment), that only dates black guys. Is he psychologically damaged as well, or fulfilling a mental fantasy? Not trying to be ass as or “Come for you” like some one here would say, Im just trying to get an understanding as to whether you’re saying dating outside of one’s race period, is the result of psych damage, or dating one ethnic group in particular outside one’s race is the result of psych damage.
My bad…Straight_Up, meant this question for you. Dont know where I got “Trey” from.
I want to you as well on this one ha ha.
Many of us deliberately want to try a variety at some point in our sexual journey. There would have to those willing to articulate their particular truth after honest introspection to give you reason for their ‘consistent ‘ dating choices. This is not cut and dry.
I want to back up @ straight up to the degree I can. Because he really has a balanced take on this. It’s not radical, more realistic. Less politically correct and idealistic.
Simply ‘straight up’.
@straight up
You are on target. In an ideal world we all like the ideal that people are actually falling in love altruistically with no damaged ulterior motivation behind it. But with all that has gone on racially and clearly still is going ,on turning up sleeping with the “enemy” (I’m exaggerating largely) doesn’t come without serious justification.
Speaking from experience the black with the white is usually coupling “up” in their eyes financially or in the area of opportunity in exchange for satisfying the whites fetish for chocolate. If they can keep their sponsor convinced of love for “them” and not what they have to offer,,, jackpot.
On the other hand dating black,whether you’re dating “up” or not increases your likelihood of being replaced by that next better looking brother seeking a sponsor/mentor.
Why deal with those odds?
Let’s stop pretending these aren’t major factors in interracial coupling especially given the fact that black masculinity , be it, getting next to it , absorbing it or emulating it is what most men globally aspire to or wind up hating/envying.
Porn in which the black dick is seen str8 or gay is the highest selling and viewed in the industry confirms this.
It’s hard to conceive that you can grow up in this country ,be black and consistently couple with whites simply because you love this white person simply for “them”. For a black “man” it’s usually what you rep. And you are using what the masses perceive about black as your calling card.
Most people aren’t as altruistic in their “love” as they might want to “think” they are. There is far too much going on in society esp in race relations for that to be the case. Most are trying to ‘survive ‘ emotionally and otherwise by any means necessary,foregoing identifying with their true selves or roots.
I”m glad you see what’s up. The extent of the damage is deep. Many of these brothas on here are so programmed to advance outside interests, that they will get defensive against those of us that reject this ideology in favor for their advancement. Sad indeed.
I was brought up with the mindset that you and yours come first, always. Everyone else is a distance secondary consideration, if at all, and only after you and yours are secured.
Just to set you straight…I see you are a visitor to the site and I’m not aware you may have been visiting before this week; nonetheless I would implore you to read (if you choose) the many articles where we have discussed the gay men and the black community as a whole. Just a thought.
I’m already ahead of you on this one, boss. I’m not new @Ocky. I’ve been reading your site since your DC days. I have read the many articles you all have penned referring to the gay community and black people as a whole.
What I do notice is that, like everyone, you all make generalizations as well, without referring to the scientific data/sources/citations that you have requested of me. But on a blog, I really wouldn’t expect you to do that.
I seem to remember a post you made some time ago lamenting the fact that black people don’t like the great outdoors. Generalization? See, there’s plenty of it to go around, my friend.
Sir that post was based off a study I believe I saw on NBC Nightly News and also NPR. However the overall point (since now I know you are not a newb to the site) is stop acting like WE (The sites creators) are in some way delusional and don’t speak about the ills in the black community and in the black gay community….Did you freaking read the Gay Gate Keepers essay?
As my late Grandma use to say “man I’m done fool’n wit you”.
Straw man argument, man. I never once stated the co-creators were delusional, nor did I state that you don’t write about issues affecting the black community. Where are you getting this from?
Look, don’t take it personally because I’m not coming for either of you personally. We are having a dialogue on a very controversial topic, so there is sure to be disagreements. I stated my position and offered another POV as to why black folk’s open door policy on interracial mating/dating may not be in OUR long-term best interest. No matter how benign it appears on the surface, there are always unintended consequences to division.
Anyway, thanks for the dialogue.
Naw man. I stopped taking comments personally a long time ago. You are passionate about your POV, whats wrong with that?
I’m thanking you for keeping the convo going and lively. PLEASE feel free to do it anytime.
@straight up
And this is exactly how other races think. THEY come FIRST. African Americans are the only ones willing to put everyone else ahead of themselves .
Of course we will be labeled as ‘militant’ with this view ,or even racist but so be it.
Self hate on my part for dating white? I’m not so sure. But definite self ‘protection’ at a crucial time period in my life where I couldn’t afford too much room for error. But once I got strong enough to hold my own , it’s time go back ‘home’. Give back or even rescue.
The reality is , to go too deep for some ,will mean to question or address a lot of things about themselves. Most don’t have the will. It’s easier to float around with what’s ideal in a system that is far from being ‘ideal”.
@straight up
Lol. To add to your /our argument.
How many of us on this thread and those viewing can’t walk into a white club right now ,get on the auction block , and be SOLD to the highest bidder we can tolerate sexing and call it love?
Now take these same ‘high profile’ blacks in situations with whites, and take away the celeb status and put them in a black club and see what the bidding looks like. Or even if they are willing to get on the auction block in the first place…..
The point YOU are missing is that these are not random pairings-Frank Ocean and his guy both look like arty liberal hipsters. Don and his guy, like overtly educated media brats. Michael Sam and his guy like college boys who obsess over sport. The boxer and his guy even make their face the same! Jason and his dude are both obsessed with public speaking, gay advocacy and are ivy league educated academics.
Why are black people so intent on the elephant in the room? Not ALL black people get along….we come from different classes and backgrounds!
Not any of these interracial relationships come from a place where they would actually be around similar black people. I know from many sources that Frank O has mainly been with black guys…on the DL. This Willy guy was waaay to open for Frank which is one of the reasons he backed away….plus Willy’s mother is mixed with black but whatever!
None of these guys are coming from liberal coast cities where you can call them sus for their dating pool. Michael’s boyf was apparently the only other out gay guy in the athletics team! Have you heard of Don Lemon’s rants about the black community? He makes no excuses for the BS, so which black gay man will be man enough to own it with him??
And Jason Collins? Mr awkward? Really? Black gay guys would be into this geeky academic nerd?
GTFO. Such a hypocrite. Gonna have to ignore your posts now.
“Not ALL black people get along….we come from different classes and backgrounds!”
then later:
“And Jason Collins? Mr awkward? Really? Black gay guys would be into this geeky academic nerd?”
@john – If all black people are not the same, as you said, why would black gay guys not be into Jason Collins? People shouldn’t be closet geeks. There’s actually nothing wrong with being a geek. I actually think JC is kinda cute and has that boy next door adorable charm. Granted, I have not seen many interviews of him.
If what you mean is that would a majority of black gay men would not find him attractive, then yes. I can see that. He’s not super muscular, doesn’t have ‘swag’ or unnecessary bravado but he’s the kind of guy, from what I can tell, many dudes would f over because he probably is perfectly okay spending saturday night cuddled up with Netflix and his BF enjoying a quiet evening at home or maybe Sunday afternoons at the art gallery. Yet, probably treats who he is dating like a king but then guys find him boring.
Gay guys of all races, come in just a varied subcultures as straight guys of all races.
re: The Gay Nerd episode of Will and Grace.
When it comes to attraction, we of all people should know that sometimes there is no psychological or medical explanation for who we are drawn towards. You can write all of the dissertations you want to “explain” attraction, but it all comes down to the individual. I know myself better than anyone on this Earth, yet I can’t explain why I like black men with freckles.
Exactly, my dude. That’s why I don’t sweat dudes that state they don’t have a “preference” because I just assume they’re like me…similar features on different dudes can end up a game changer on the one I may not like that particular feature on (if that makes any sense LOL)
I’m here as a black man married to an older white man. We both started out poor and we are advancing together. I married him because I fell in love with him, and yes I am attracted to some white men, I also find some black men attractive. My second relationship was with an older black man and it went great…until it fizzled out. (he backed off) I’ve only been in three relationships.
Most gay black men I’ve encountered (and there has been more than white) are looking to have sex only. I get it. I was in the closet for a long time and the reason which I think is somewhat of a root: my religious family. In my 28 years of life I have never met another black atheist. I can’t synthesize Christianity with my sexuality, I in fact CAN blame that on black Baptist churches because I was raised in them. We all know what Im talking about. They may have progressed on the issue since I last stepped inside one 10 years ago, but I wouldn’t know. A lot of the self-hate I had when I was younger was attributed to religious black folk–not “thugs,” not “ghetto people” not violence, not men on the DL.
Something else to think about. His family accepted us first for varying reasons. Open arms. My parents needed coaxing and needed to adjust or “time.” But in the end there will be reasons all over the place as to why we see a lot of interracial gay couples. Let’s not forget, these are white men with black men too, not just black men dating white men. We are more open-minded.
As a homosexual, you are bound to be more open to others, so it just makes sense. Also, the math is there in the article! If there are less gay black men out of the closet, wouldn’t that mean you are statistically more likely to see a black man dating a white man in the media?
My last bit is this: I don’t care how other races have advanced, sticking to each other, and benefitted from helping advance their own race. That’s not how I think. I am a part of the human race, I’ve seen racism on all sides and I refuse to stick to those ideas. I am the same as white people, who are the same as Latinos, who are the same as Asians etc. etc. Hatred or seclusion in my heart is only bad for one person: me!
Thank you for sharing your story and also visiting. This was a good perspective.
@Darren Jackson,
You do bring up a valid point. Dating white for a real relationship is a whole lot easier for a variety of factors than dating black. I don’t think anyone would dare debate that.
I found that dating white (when I did in the past) allowed me an escape from black issues ie, dodging AIDS, higher levels of dysfunction, over inflated discretion. Too much extra ‘stuff’. That you may not have time for in certain eras of your life.
When my consciousness elevated in time , I wanted to face the issues of ‘my’ community and origins head on. I simply grew into that space. It became less about the come ups, opportunities or perceived damage control and less risk taking. Relationships are reflections of ourselves. I didn’t need to be around white privilege to feel good about myself anymore. I ‘arrived’.
I feel dating black as more of a responsibility if nothing more or less. Like giving back to where I came from.
How sad, depressing and narrow minded. It would shock you how mixed genetically we actually are…sorry.
Thanks for this honest perspective Darren. This may not be the case for all men in interracial relationships but it does shed some light on yours. The main takeaway though is that you have a genuine attraction for white guys. Nuff said. Why is that so hard for people to understand? White men can be very attractive, funny, intelligent, romantic, sexual, etc…and so can black men…So why is it a problem for some to say, “hey I don’t want to limit myself when I have a real attraction for these guys over here too.”
Well said. I’m a black atheist too and you only find us in hyper liberal areas! 🙂
Part of your story sounds similar to Michael Sams. His whole family have pretty much left him-pretty tragic but like you, he seems to be super close accepted to his boyfriends family. If I recall, his Dad publicly shamed him for being gay.
This topic really shows that some black men are scarred in many ways. They see any and all white men as “The Enemy” or “Sugar Daddies” or disingenuous. I do not subscribe to this belief. Many of these same men embrace biracial men and women but secretly slam their parent’s relationships on comments sections like these. I’m glad that Barack Obama’s parents disregarded the naysayers.
No one said any and all. That’s a bit of a stretch @ Nick. But it’s foolish to assume in this racist country with its history and present institutionalized racism that most having a pattern of interracial dating as truly altruistic with no underlying ulterior motive that they themselves aren’t even aware of.
And as I’ve stated in another comment, a PRUDENT reason many may date non-black for any period of time may be sheer damage control.
For example… You are adamantly single…why?…..
If women are having it rough with black men and stability/fidelity,multiple that times 3 among black gay men.
The country may be racist but clearly these white guys aren’t. We need MORE interracial couples if you ask me. People are people. This “stick with your own kind, otherwise you are self-hating” philosophy is one that I will never agree with.
Can’t help but wonder if so many people on here would be against interracial relationships (gay or straight) if 31 states had laws banning them. Then it wouldn’t be an issue of blacks abandoning there race. It would be about the “powers that be” telling us blacks aren’t good enough to be in relationships with whites…and we couldn’t have that.
This is in response to some of the statements. Yes a lot of black men see white men as the “enemy” and for good reason. When has the gay establishment ever been accepting of gay black men? I mean really! Look at what happened when Matt Shepard who was white was murdered and all of the media attention that he garnered but look at JR Warren who was black and nothing was mentioned and the latin Gwen Arjulo! Now we have these interracial couples. It’s just another way of white gay men and culture stealing from black culture and black men being too stupid to see it
The country may be racist but clearly these white guys aren’t.
Another fallacy. That’s similar to the “I have black friends, so I can’t be racist” argument. FALSE! Just because these white men are in IR does not mean they are not or can not be racist. The racist majority have been known to embrace the minority (e.g., blacks) when they stand to benefit from the association.
Racist Koreans, Arabs, Jews, etc. will set up business, engage in commerce with, and sometimes even employ black people. Why? Because it’s in their best economic interests to do so. I wouldn’t use their willingness to engage blacks as a sign that they aren’t racist. Same logic applies here, imo.
In these IR examples posted, it appears that the white men are in a greater position to benefit from being with their black mates than the reverse. Just sayin’.
Wow, black men like you really can push a black guy getting into the dating pool to try it with white guys! Nothing more offputting then the angry black gay man or woman.
Sheez.
Ya’ll still talking about this? Gay marriage was just legalized in two more states and ya’ll sitting up here talking about this? Maybe Nick can move to Idaho now and marry the white man of his dreams. *exits post*
Nick you’re grasping at straws on this one, unfortunately as for the non-interracial couples on here none of them will ever have or receive any continued media coverage like the coverage Micheal Sam, Jason Collins, Derrick Gordon, or Shaun T have received or will receive for who they are. Most of these couples have had one time recognition for appearing on a reality show where as the fore mentioned will continue to be covered by the media for the fact that they’re celebrities. Not to take away from the publicity they have received but we have to be honest outside the black gay community would they even be talked about ? The issue being over looked is if there is a black gay out celebrity in a relationship with a person of color why isn’t that person getting the media attention the rest are.
I think this is complete bullshit. Sounds a lot like internalized racism to me. And yeah, black people can be racist too. It’s the same reason that black people complained about Obama for not being “black enough” and were worried about what he’d select as his race on the census form. Get over it!
So apparently because this gay black man, who has made history, is dating a white man, that somehow his accomplishment is less? That’s bullshit. Just because his boyfriend happens to be white does not mean that he should be any less proud to be the first openly gay man drafted to the NFL! Stop hating on this guy for being in an interracial relationship! This is 2014 people come on!
I bet most of the dudes who have an issue with this post have NEVER dated a white guy before. Why is this important? Because if you’ve had nothing but horrible experiences with black men and you see another black man HAPPY with a white man, you feel you’re missing out on something maybe? I’ve said before that I dated only white men in my late teens through college and early twenties because they were the ones asking me out and I was too afraid to ask out anyone, including the many sexy black dudes on campus. I’ve always found black men incredibly sexy and had a desire to form a relationship with a black man but it never happened until now.
Funny experiment I tried with the guy I’m dating now, who is part black and part Korean. Yesterday, I asked him to read my dormant profile on a dating website and tell me what he would’ve thought of me. His answer: I would’ve felt you only wanted white men so I would’ve probably moved on. LOL And sure enough, all but 4 of the dudes that hit me up where Caucasian or of another race. But I guarantee a lot of those same black dudes who might have passed me over because they “thought” I liked only white men would be rolling their eyes and smacking their lips if they saw me out with one of the white dudes who showed interest. I’m happy I have a sexy black dude now but if it doesn’t work out, I know the whole community is available to me and not just the black portion.
Why is it ok for some masc guys to never date fem guys, but its not ok for some blk guys to never date white guys?
SMH…no one in over 100 comments said its NOT okay to NEVER date white men….Masc/Fem or Black/White…Do you, date who you want, its your preference…just don’t judge others who date differently than you…
Mmm bc the 1st line of dude’s post I responded to made me ask that and thats how some of these many posts come off, almost in a double-standardy (I just made up a word) type way, especially on a pro-masc blog…its no judgement at all…#justsayin
@achris, so I’m just a dude now. LOL. I wasn’t saying that it’s NOT ok to not date white men. The point of my post was to give an example of a black man(ME) who dated white men exclusively at one point in my life but at no point did I ever find black men unattractive or unworthy of my love/time. On the contrary, I desired that but it just wasn’t there for me. Could be my fault. Actually, a lot of it was my fault but seeing a black dude with a white dude has no affect on me whatsoever. Some of you are trying to psychoanalyze all interracial couples instead of just letting them be happy as @nick and @ocky and others have been saying for 48hrs now. I can assure you, none of the men on nick’s list set out to hurt @achris or any of the other guys on here. They’re just trying to find happiness man.
BTW, what’s the difference between a black man who refuses to date outside his race and a black man who refuses to date his own race? Nothing. They both are shutting themselves off from a whole swath of eligible men. I ain’t neither of em.
lol I was with you until the hurt @achris part. Actually i’ve been saying the whole time that I don’t have a problem with IR relationships, but when I read that “well they probably have never dated white guys /bad experiences w/ blk guys line, it made me think of the question I posed. It’s like, but I don’t want/have/need /desie to try them in the same vain that you may. I just wish more blk/blk couples were in the NATIONAL spotlight (not just the black gay media), thats it. As I have no problem attracting and dating blk men and my current dude is blk, i’m personally not “hurt” at all, it would just be nice to see more balance in the NATIONAL media (bc I know @nick is going to pull the “well blogs are the media too” stuff lol). #justsayin
And to your last point I do think there is a difference but I won’t even go there, I will keep that to myself. But I have never felt that I have lacked eligible men bc I don’t date white guys so I can only speak for myself on that. Maybe for some its limiting, iono, but I have dated great guys.
Disregarding the fact that EVERY black gay couple I listed has been on the NATIONAL media stage at one point….Why is it so important for you to see black gay couples in the same spotlight as Michael Sam and Jason Collins? Why do you care? Do you feel inferior without it? Do these prominent interracial relationships affect your dating life in a negative way? Are you even Out of the closet at your job or school or family? What difference in your life would come if you saw a photo on a blog of Derrick Gordon on a Red Carpet with a black gay man?
When we complain about femininity in the media, its because ppl automatically assume we all want to wear high heels and a purse because of the stereotypes. I can’t imagine ANYONE would assume you want a white man just because Michael Sam kissed a white dude on ESPN.
lol ok @nick…I honestly through that media line in there as a joke but to answer some of your questions…It is important to me to see blk/blk couples in the national spotlight so that gay black boys out there that are not exposed have some type of knowledge or reference point that it exists, plus, in the same way I like to see balanced imagery of black people/black males/black families, I’d like to see it for black gay couples in both real situations shown and scripted tv. You yourself did a whole piece on impactful masc gay characters that are on tv but still feel there is an imbalance. I feel similarly for this topic. I do not have a problem with IR relationships but there is a clear difference between being given an excerpt in Jet and having the cover of Time Magazine. Thats all I’m saying.
To answer your other questions:
Nope, I dont feel inferior, why would I?
Nope, hasn’t impacted my dating life, I never said it did…
Yep, I am out to friends, I am out to my family, I was out in college, I was out in grad school, and coworkers know I’m gay…….
Personally I have had both str8 and other gay ppl suggest that more successful blk men go after white men. They have (maybe jokingly) asked after I got my masters if thats what I would do (Mind you I am only in my mid-late 20s)…so I think some ppl do assume that more successful blks get with white just like they may assume all gay dudes are fem bc of the imbalance of what they see in the media.
I think we can all agree that ppl should be with who they want.
The people have spoken
First of all, I took offense to this article. It was due to the fact that you’re assuming that black men are “jealous” of white men dating “successful” black men. Let me correct you on a few things: Michael Sam was rejected by the NFL basically and Jason Collins couldn’t get an NBA team to really sign him! So you’re wrong if you think that anyone could be “jealous” of that! Yes, these guys can be considered “sell outs” because they have done nothing by of advancing gay black culture!
Having dated white men, I can HONESTLY tell you that they are bigoted and you know this! They (1) Looking for Mandingo! (2) Prey on the younger black gay male! (3) Steal cultures! Do you need a history lesson?
Calling a man that chose to be with a white man a sellout is ridiculous. As a black man that is open to the idea of dating other races, I get that a lot. You end up liking who you like. As far as not being offended because it was just “Michael Sam” or “Jason Collins” I don’t buy that. It could’ve Sinbad with a white person and inevitably someone would’ve brought race up because they were butt hurt.
But why does someone have to be “butt hurt” when they state the obvious? I mean a 47 year old white male with a 22 year old black guy? Come on!!!! I do consider black men that only date white men sell outs because they only want to exist in a white world that doesn’t want them! Look at that white lesbian gay couple that is suing a clinic because they had a black child instead of a white child! Look at the white gays that called black men niggers because Prop 8 failed. Look at the Badlands bar in SAN FRANCISCO that was sued due to the fact that they force their black patrons to show 3 forms of id as well as give up their seats to white patrons!
I only mentioned butt hurt because this topic really gets people angry. Is it possible that these men happened to be attracted to the white guys they were with, or even liked them? You make it sound like they aren’t even interested in the person themselves. I understand and get all of the examples, but what does that have to do with me falling in love with a white man?
For me it boils down to this, many black gays will say “you should be able to love who you love” as long as its another black man.
So what’s wrong with that? Why should there be “interracial love” before “black love?” I seem to recall that it was WHITE men who made up the law of interracial couples not being allowed to marry….You DO know that, right?
You say that you understand the examples and such but I don’t think that you do. You see, just because you’re in the house doesn’t mean that they see you as an equal which is what it’s all about. To pretend otherwise when so many black gay luminaires came before us is a complete mockery. You’re not a lighter skinned black man and it is a rare white guy that will welcome you into HIS world outside of anything sexual! I think that it has EVERYTHING to do with you falling in love with a white guy. 47 year old white male with a 22 year old black guy? Depending on WHEN they “got together” it might be seen as statutory rape.
Before I make my point (briefly) I’ll say that I have no problems with interracial relationships (IRs). When done for the right reasons, they can be beautiful. I also know that, for some, internalized racism and stereotypes drive the desire for IRs. That said, Ocky, can you please explain why your comments on this thread are dramatically different from your posts dated 10/16/2013 & 9/14/2012 (pasted below) about black gay couples in MAINSTREAM media (e.g., movies, television)? I genuinely want to know.
“However I would just once love to see a functioning non-dysfunctional loving black gay couple within *mainstream* media.”
“I strongly believe if there were more positive representations of homosexual black men in relationships in the media; it could eventually lead to a reduction in the spread of STD’s and lessen promiscuity, even if only by a small percentage…”
First off…thank you for reading and following us enough to be able to go and pull quotes from past articles. That REALLY makes me feel happy and feel like someone is acknowledging my POV. This is awesome man!
However tell me how my view points are different exactly. I’ve looked through my comments here and like you stated the quotes you listed are from 10/16/2013 & 9/14/2012.
In 2014 we have had 2 BLACK gay male couples get married at the Grammys, another couple was all over the internet and media for showing a pic of them combing their kid’s hair. Literally days after the 10-16-13 post Lewis Duckett and Billy Jones got married.
Nonetheless to get to the point & observation that I believe you are making in regards to my comments; YES we need to see more Black Gay Men displayed in SCRIPTED movies and television. ALL the men listed here…none are Movie or TV celebrities / stars / characters on shows. That’s was the content of those posts you are referring to.
The men displayed in this article are real people like us, not fictional scripted characters that are few and far between on the big and small screens. Does this make sense?
Actually, I clicked on the link to one of those posts and read it just before I respond. I just did a quick scan to see what I might find. I was not aware of the context of that post (what stories you did around the same time)
If I understand you correctly, the difference between your past posts and your current comments is that you want to see SCRIPTED portrayals of black gay couples. (You also mentioned actors, etc., but I’ll leave that alone.) I was focused on the striking similarity between what you were saying in your past posts about SCRIPTED couples (because small-time venues like Logo TV with Noah’s Arc just doesn’t cut it). That sounds at least a bit similar to what people are saying this post, that the lesser known couples don’t cut and they want bigger, more national, visible/consistent representation. Ijs.
It’s good to see someone say the same ting I stated but it a different way…..date whomever you want, it would be nice to see the media show gay couple of all races in loving relationships black/ black latin/latin asian/asian you can’t tell me they’re not out there….
This article doesn’t shut down the discussion about high profile black gay men in interracial relationships. It underlines it. The men in these interracial relationships are in the public eye and reinforce the view that among straight black people that gayness is a predatory white encroachment on black men and masculinity. It also sends a message to black gay men and society at large that we incapable loving ourselves. The black gay couples are largely unknown outside of the black gay community. On a personal level I’ve never dated white men and would never date a white man. 1: I don’t find them sexually attractive at all. 2: Part of me still thinks of them as the enemy. Yes I know not all white men are racist or want to harm black people but that is still the first thing that comes to mind when I see an interracial gay couple. White men have been fucking us over for centuries why would I let one physically fuck me? Yes I think people should be free to date or love who they want but for me on a visceral level I’m put off by this.
If I understand what you are saying…because the straights don’t recognize the black gay “non-high profile” relationships therefore they should not be acknowledged and celebrated by black gay men?
Again the same thing is basically being repeated over and over again…these black gay couples are not famous enough and their images are not doing enough on a grander scale to combat white and black heterosexual’s anti-gay sentiments.
Here’s a thought…why don’t we look at these black gay relationships to use as muses to better ourselves SO WE CAN HEAL AND GROW?
WTF???
Seem to me that it’s not enough for just the Black Gay Community to be able to recognize these (and other lower key, gay black “celebrity” couples). They need THE WORLD to see and recognize them as well. Therefore if they’re not on the Brad/Angelina, Will/ Jada, Robin/ Paula level, then it’s not good enough and doesn’t count. smh
EXACTLY! Its good to know some of you guys here in the comments section “Gets It”…Also notice how they keep changing the goal post every time a new valid point is brought up. In the comments on the Derrick Gordon article, hardly anyone mentioned “Prominent” or “High Profile”…everyone was saying “We want to see more black-on-black couples in the media”…I do this post and all they can say is “They aren’t famous enough!” Why are they forgetting that internationally famous black gay men is still are rare thing? Especially amongst the type of black gay man that they seem to want to see get famous (ie: masculine, non-drag queen)
Your absolutely correct. Its not the numbers that matter. What’s important is what kind of coupled black gay men get the coverage of major media. That coverage is what drives perceptions about us and its what drives our own ideas about who we are and how we should live our lives. Many of us copy what’s popular regardless of how much sense it makes. The question remains why do such a high percentage of high profile black men (straight and gay) NOT chose black partners and how does this affect the self esteem and behavior of us black folks? Will some graduate student please study this already!
Class. Duh. Where in the world are they supposed to find black gay men of the same stature, class and interests? All those gay high profile men are not…ghetto and are pretty arty bookish geeky.
Why can’t you GET that?? All these black gay couples are very ‘stereotypical’…not very liberal arts.
This attempt to point out alleged self-hate in others and instead reveals your own hatred of self is the perfect example of the mindset that continues to keep so man black gays damaged and mentally unwell.
There is so much wrong with this — where to begin? The first problem is announcing that black gays should be living their lives to please straight homophobes. Congratulations: you have so internalized the anti-gay hate homophobia of the straight black community that you are now allowing their values to dictate your love life. Who cares what black straights think about the relationships of black gays? Newsflash: the color of who you date doesn’t matter to homophobes — haters gonna hate. Stop buying into the false notion that you have to please straights to be worthy.
Second, the absurd notion that you should worry about the message your relationship sends. When you are happy and self-validated, you don’t choose relationships to get validation from “black gays” or from “society” or from anyone else. Gays with internalized homophobia and racism often date twins to feel validated, I notice. It’s the only way they know how to feel good about themselves, and that’s unhealthy.
Finally, the “visceral” reaction to white gays, wow. What would we call a white gay who “viscerally” found black gays unattractive? A bigot, and we’d be right. You don’t get a pass for bigotry for being black.
When you actually begin to feel that other people should be picking partners based on how it makes you feel, how it makes straight homophobes feel, how it makes society feel — I’m sorry to report the real issue is your own hatred of self. Michael Sam’s relationship doesn’t say squat about whether or not I love myself — my love of self comes from within and is always there. It’s not based on anyone else, not even the guys I have loved.
MLK spoke often about this and he is still right, which is how he was able to be colorblind, non-homophobic, and able to fight hate with love. You need to find a love within yourself, for yourself, that society, black straight people, black gays, and indeed no one can take away. Then not only will you come to love others — including white people. You feel invalidated by Michael Sam’s relationship with a white dude? Really?
The problem is you, dude. Get your mind right.
…. …. …. okay I get where you’re going with this article….and you win…..this time *fades into darkness*
This was a great article and an awesome read!
I love all the pics and stories. Well done.
I just really wanted some of that Alvin Ailey couple’s cake. That cake is the best looking thing in this entire article. ha ha ha…
Secretly, I want those interracial relationships to “fail.” Especially the one between a “22 year old young black male to the cradle robbing 47 year old decrepit wretch.” In all honesty if he has been dating this young male for “several” years he had to have been stalking him while he was under age. Hell, the 22 year old is still a “baby.” What the hell could he possibly know about dating a 47 year old “white male.”
Some of y’all are making excuses for excusing this obvious transgress – black males in the bed with white men. ugghhh… that’s a real turn off for me. I don’t get turned on by white men at all. They can’t do anything for me… period. History has lessons and when you fail to learn them they are “ofttimes” REPEATED!
In fact, history is passing you by, boo, just like it is all people obsessed with identity politics. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but nobody gives a rat’s behind what turns you on. I’m assuming you’re under the erroneous impression that other people car because you care about what turns on other people, but that’s what’s known as a personal problem.
Pluralism, diversity, multicultralism, assimilation and exposure are not just here — they are increase. Intermixing is going to increase. The bitterness and crying of a few sad elephants will not stop the show. Get over it.
No, absent any other evidence, actually I wouldn’t just call a white man who is not sexually or romantically attracted to black men or any other “type” of man a bigot. I’d call him a bigot when he treats another person differently or denies him rights or statuses because of that difference. No one has the right to date, sleep with or marry whomever they please. Attraction cannot be dictated or policed, and people are not bigoted for not being interested in dating or sleeping with people with certain characteristics — sex, weight, hair color, skin color, mannerisms, language barriers. To suggest that someone has to be completely open-minded when selecting romantic or sexual partners or else they are a bigot or a racist is just absurd thought policing. Ironically, this argument is used often by white men who want to date men of color who aren’t interested in them (yes, and vice versa, sadly): “oh, you’re a racist if you won’t date me!”
Black Couple #8: David Harris & Tre’Darrius Anderson are both young men in the porn industry, that still have sex with other men. For money! That is not a marriage make. It’s a relationship of convenience. “We just got married, but we sleep with other men for a living. So it’s okay?!” But again, they are both still very young. Good luck to them both.
Hmmmm. interesting. I didn’t know who they were to begin with, but if what you say is true then (for me) it kinda eliminates them off the list.
Well…. you know a lot of gay guys love to say “We don’t like to let the heteros define our relationships.”
However, to me, it’s not anything about the ‘Evil Hetero Agenda’. It’s about the monogamy, as that’s important to me.
This may work for them and if it does, then great. If they are a happy couple and that keeps them emotionally attached to each other and they don’t mind the physical with other people, cool. It is not for me though. I’m going to hope they have set their rules up for this type of thing. There’s a few white couples in porn that do this as well BUT they are older. These are some young guys and I wouldn’t recommend anyone, gay or straight, bi, poly or robotic to get married young until you know who you are, to some degree, as an individual. Live life a bit.
I’m not one for an open relationship and I’m not polyamorous. It’s complicated enough to do deal with ONE person, let alone when you introduce a stream of new people OR just one other regular person.
There is one person I know who does this and for him, his bf AND his gf, the three of them love it and all get along and it’s all roses and rainbows.
@controlledxaos – Agreed, my dude. I’m adamant about monogamy (even though I’m startin to believe the concept is a farce nowadays, str8 or gay) but I also have learned that to each his/her own. Its the sdame shit with str8 people vs. gay people/ gay marraige, gay etc….if you don’t like it, mu’fuka then dont do it. I can’t hate on dudes that are into open relationships. Whatever works for them.
I have a Live and Let Live policy.
I don’t have to like what other people do as they don’t have to like what I do, but I want them to be able to be themselves as I am able to be myself.
Even if they are both porn actors, it doesn’t invalidate their marriage. If they’re honest with each other about it (and if its public, they must be), then they can choose any form of work or pleasure they like. Just like how some married couples are swingers, or others may enjoy threesomes, the kind of sex you have only degrades the marriage if you’re not honest and open with your spouse about it. Any other judgements beyond that are simply that: judgements.
For me it does, thats just MY opinion. Same as “Swingers”, why be married if you just wanna fuck around like a single person. For that, just have a partner and have a”open relationship (which I feel is BS too). Bottomline tho, long as they’re happy, vaya ellos. I can only speak for myself when it comes to relationships, but in (my) eyes, they’re not married. Sorry, bro. I know madd dudes are gonna disagree with that, but we’re all entitled to our opinions, none of which are right nor wrong, they’re just that…opinions.
Its perfectly fine to have your own views on what constitutes a relationship or marriage. And you don’t have to personally recognize a marriage that doesn’t fit those views. I’m always a little ambivalent about judging how “real” someone else’s marriage is though, since at the end of the day the people in the marriage and the law of the land both hold far more relevance to that issue than I do as an uninvolved third party. Its kind of like when people say that they don’t personally recognize gay marriages, it doesn’t really do much more than try to demean them, at least that’s how I see it. I do understand that its not typically traditional (and I personally would not be comfortable in a relationship with those terms).
You make a good point, bro. That’s why I made the comment…as long as they’re happy, they can do them. I’m really no authority on a relationship of ANY type, to be honest. LOL But with marriage I just feel anything more than two people being involved, isn’t a marriage. But it is what it is, my dude. To each his/her/their own. I’m just super Ol’ School I suppose LOL
Nothing wrong with being old school 🙂
Really ? please provide a link to any video you have seen them in . FYI the video on the internet labeled Youngest Married Gay Couple is not them . It is a video from about five years ago that someone decided to give that title for fun. Looking forward to reading the list of videos they have done. Tre is on twitter and often states he doesn’t believe in open relationships. So I’m curious about these videos you are talking about.
The couple has absolutely performed in adult videos for Flavaworks/RawRods under the names Meko Mills and Lamar Love. This, however, does not negate their marriage and the fact that they are an example of a Black Gay Couple in the media.
I’ve always thought that people date “other” versions of their first love (from a movie, a poster, an NBA play-off or the school cafeteria). How do we recreate that urgency…that desire? I think people who say they don’t know what they want, know exactly what they want (check their internet history). I tend to not believe what people say. Posing just gets in the way of truth. It’s exhausting. “I’m smart. I got a gym membership. I’m employed. I drive a Benz. I live on a hill with a view.” So freakin what? Dated that, dumped that. The urgency determines more than any resume or bio could ever communicate. If genuine love shows up in a white man’s body, so be it. I congratulate you. We all want what we want when we want it. What everybody else thinks about it is just words in the air floating around complicating things. So what now, we gotta entertain what some stranger thinks? Go home and fry some pork chops like you did last night. Make enough for me. It’s ridiculous. The love lives of celebrities are not to enlighten the plight of any community. It’s to fulfill their own personal urgency, not unlike the one the rest of us have. We want what we want. They want what they want. God bless the child who finds an outlet, whatever color it may come in. I just hope mine is some percentage of black and can speak spanish or portuguese with a gym membership, a job, some equity and a BMW. That’s where I’m at…where are you…and what difference does it make? To me? I’ll…
One we all are human! Secondly as one of the people of a multinational background AKA Black! I must say that no matter your multinational blend of a mix, It’s of one’s history to love another human being!
When in history have white men ever loved black men? They’ve hated us since we’ve come in to contact with them, me personally, not even 20 yet, and I have experienced a hell of a lot of hate from white men simply because of my race. But to each is own. Find “love” in who ever you do.
Its been the opposite for me…Whenever I’ve been around someone who has been homophobic, materialistic, superficial, egotistical or tried to test my manhood, its always been by a BLACK man, not white. In my life, my fellow brothers have hurt me and offended me more than white men.
I’m sure many white men can say the same…whatever environment you are in are likely the ones who will hurt you. I’m sure white men will say the same about other white men being homophobic and egotistical. I am assuming you are/were in an environment that was/is MOSTLY black, so of course most of the assholes you will meet will be black. Living in Indiana, I have met assholes of all races…including white. I’m sure if you lived here, you would run into white men who have the characteristics of the black men who treated you like this. The crusade against gay people in this country is being carried out by white right wing homophobic evangelicals. Black people have treated me very badly as well being light skinned gay, not “manly enough” and speaking proper to the point where I had severe social anxieties. I made the mistake of running to white as sanctuary, and then saw that they see me as nothing but a “nigger”. I even went as far as supporting George Zimmerman in 2012. I came back to earth though…white ain’t always right…or refuge. At the end of the day, THE VAST MAJORITY of white men gay and straight want a white mate. Especially gay ones, most of whom only see black men as sex objects. NOT ALL…but most.
You’re projecting, that isn’t what he meant. I agree with him but then I have a degree further then High School, so don’t live on warped self pity that the ‘white man did it’.
Even if I was only high school educated…cognitive reading and research at any age is a beautiful thing.
I wonder if a lot of black people realise the first forms of literature were found in Timbuktu West Africa? Sigh.
Seeing the way black people articulate themselves now or behave, you’d never know we were a learned, open minded and intuitive race, way back then.
You came out of left field with that conversation…I have never blamed white men for anything. I am just speaking on the many negative experiences I’ve had with them (and black people), so don’t come at me with your condescending BS. I was second in my class and am majoring in Finance, so I know about research. I don’t know what low class black people you live around, but I know many black people who are articulate, open-minded and intuitive…and I’ve seen many white people who aren’t. Ever heard of a hillbilly? There are tons of them where I live and across America. I know white men generally have a less than flattering perception of black men, yet they are CONSTANTLY AND ALWAYS put on a pedestal in the gay community by men of ALL races.
If that was the case then why is it that more white gay people are bigoted!? Have you not seen at how they react to us?
I’ve seen how we all react to each other. It’s all fucked up.
But it was white gay men that started this to begin with! When has white gay people ever been welcoming of black gay men outside of the bedroom? I don’t like the non talented Jason Collins or the ignoramus Michael Sam! They only date white because they hate being black
I don’t personally know too many white gay men nor have I dated any to answer that question. And c’mon man. How can you know that they hate being black? I’m sure that there are black men out there that are like that, but that isn’t the case for everyone.
Jason has long immersed himself in white culture. Before he came out he was engaged to a white girl! Don’t get me started on Michael Sam! I have dated white men and let me tell you, I wish that I had NEVER touched one! They do not or will not treat you the same! They are looking for a mandingo and if you’re not one then they treat you like dirt!
Well I’m sorry to hear that. I don’t know about his upbringing, but if he were surrounded by white people his whole life perhaps that’s just what he’s used to being attracted to. I don’t know the case, but making white gay men into these heartless beings and gay black men that like white men into sellouts is not solving anything. Even though I haven’t been around too many white gays I can tell you about all of the shitty things blacks gays have done to other races and each other since I’ve been in Atlanta. We are not innocent.
I was that younger black gay guy at one point who dated older white men and when I decided to grow up and be my own man, that white man did everything in his power to try to control me and my entire life! I started out with a gorgeous black man like myself and I should’ve stayed with black. I immersed myself in white gay culture and totally forgot my own truth until one day, I woke up and ended finding my own strength! I do think that Jason is a sell out more so than the others because he pretends that color doesn’t matter when in fact it does. It was the white gay establishment that reject the black establishment in the 1970s. so you see, it’s like I said before, I wish that I had never touched a white guy and although black men aren’t innocent, it is nothing compared to the sheer ignorance and bigotry that white men like to expouse. They call you names like nigger when you don’t want to date them
So based on your experiences, are you characterizing or generalizing? I know plenty of black people who have horrible experiences dating other black people but that doesn’t stop them from dating black people…and it shouldn’t.
If I’m generalizing then so what. White gay men do this all of the time. Are you saying that they can do but we as black gay men can’t? I know of plenty of black men that have dated white men and have had a horrible time while I know of plenty of white gay men that have dated white men that were also treated badly. What’s your point?
Why are people getting all butt hurt over Michael Sam and Jason Collins…still? Those ships have sailed. Regardless of their ability to play their respective games, even if they were super successful, you’d still be butthurt. You just can’t please everyone. Performance on the field has nothing to do with who they are dating UNLESS that person is dating them only for the money potential. Right now, Sam’s basically an unemployed black man. The guy he’s dating didn’t drop him like a hot potato because of that so there must be more to it than just potential NFL money and whatever is in his jock strap.
Not every white man is trying to hook up with black men because they are looking for BBC or Phatty Phat Ass. Hell, what’s the difference when it’s BLACK men looking only for black men because of BBC or Phatty Phat Ass? It’s objectification either way. I’ve had black guys sound disappointed when I told them that I was not mixed race. Hell, I felt objectified from that.
A nice body, nice dick, nice ass or any physical attribute is not a solid foundation for a relationship. That’s only good for a hook up. If the hook up evolves into a relationship, great. But the feelings in the relationship are what keep people together, not the physical. There’s always someone more muscled, thicker, longer, bigger, better looking etc.
As far as ‘dating’ white men who objectified you, that’s not all on you but you have to admit you were complicit in how they treated you. If you didn’t like being treated that way, or felt objectified, it was on you to leave when that happened. Or at least talk about it.
Not all white people are evil and not all black people are good.
So you’re saying that someone is “butt hurt” if Sam and Collins were successful. Not true. I seem to recall Sam recently stating that he isn’t in the NFL “not because of his talent.” Essentially that would ring true for Collins as well according to Sam’ theory and that isn’t true. When a white athlete named Robbie Rogers came out, it was celebrated. Sam WANTED to believe that his color didn’t matter when that isn’t true because no matter what white people tell the media, it does matter and we all know that you have a bunch of fat white guys making the decisions as to whether or not to place Sam or even Collins on a team. But their lack of talent only compounded the situation. You say that the white guy didn’t drop Sam. I say that he didn’t drop him YET! Now the white press is implying that Sam didn’t make it because he is “invisible” and “not willing to do interviews.” Sam is basically headed towards a documentary on Oprah due to the fact that his prospects for the NFL have come to a standstill now that Dallas cut him. Cyd Ziegler noted that: “Once Sam announced that he was gay, he would never truly be a football player” Now this isn’t the BLACK press saying these things or in charge of his career but the WHITE press. But have no fear, he’ll be good for reality TV. So there are PLENTY of reasons for that little white boy to stick around….You sy that not every white guy is looking for a “mandingo” or big butt. Come on now, don’t delude yourself. I am mixed race but that doesn’t mean that to white men I am like them so the sword cuts both ways….No I wasn’t “complicit” that would be like saying that all of those black people that were raped, killed and etc were “complicit” in his or her own treatment and yes it is “generalizing” as you say….I didn’t say that all white people were evil, just the vast majority of the one who “pretend” to date black men. You should really know history because it was white men who started this whole thing and you know that. It’s still going on UNTO THIS DAY. Do you need references? But then you know that. Right?
yes it is “generalizing” as you say…
Then my point has been made.
And mine is made as well. White men generalize so why can’t I if I want to? If there’s one thing that I can’t stand: a negro who thinks that white based stupidity crap of “love is universal” crap!
*ROcks back in rocking chair*
I agree with everything Bud Morris has to say.
Hmm. Last I heard, Terrence Howard was giving it up to Lee Daniels, going the extra mile to ensure that Daniels didn’t give that role in Empire to Wesley Snipes.
If there’s anything about Gerald McCullough that makes me mad, it’s that he’s my age and should be MY boyfriend.
As married gay Ailey Dancers, there was the one that Judith Jamison married back in teh early seventies, Miguel Godreau. Still not sure how exactly that happened, but happen it did. And since Dwight Rhoden and Desmond Richardson left Ailey, formed their own company and split up before they could ever actually get married …
I commend them all. Me and my husband are happily married with children…we r masculine, and we break a lot of stereotypes….
Honest question: What does it take away from people to allow others to date who they like? Again, an honest question.Please don’t attack me for asking.