Brehs, we present to you a new episode of the CYPHER AVENUE PODCAST where you’ll hear us give updates, engage in heated topic debates, interviewing interesting homosexual men of color and us verbally adding on to the articles posted on the website.
The episodes will be available in four ways: You can listen to them on the site, watch on YouTube, download a MP3 version or subscribe to us on iTunes for automatic updates!
In this podcast, Cypher Avenue founders Ocky Williams & Nick Delmacy discuss Dating in Atlanta, Having Casual Sex with Friends, The Eligible Bachelor Members on Cypher Avenue, Fly Young Red’s love for ”Boy Pussy”, Why Strip Clubs and the Ballroom Scenes are kinda ”Gross”, Examining if Nick and Ocky are actually effemaphobes in denial, inappropriate jokes about missing Malaysia Flight 370 and much more!
MP3 VERSION:
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*angry face* Why was being bottom made out to be funny?
Inside joke between two buddies.
Please…you know we don’t do sexual position shaming on The Ave.
I really enjoyed the podcast. Good work again bros.
Diggin’ the Podcast my dudes. Keep ’em comin.
1. Short response, I also think homeboy’s song is just another form of the typical objectifying rap song. I dont like it, dont dislike it either, I just dont care.
2. As far as the Ballroom madness goes, when I very first came out, I was into all that BS, never participated but I enjoyed the “ambiance” I guess you can say. Now, that I’m older and have a real life (and less patience for gay dudes), I don’t have time nor interest for it or the fukd up shady ppl that come along with it. I understand WHY some dudes do it…I think. Nah, lemme change that, I can understand YOUNG (as in teens to early 20’s)dudes doin it because it’s living a fantasy and they want to feel “fab”, I suppose. But at some point you gotta grow up and realize that shit ain’t real. I refuse to understand 30-40-50+yo’s still immersed in that lifestyle. But whatever, to each his/her own.
3. As far as The Effeminate Gay Male representation being the dominate in Media, I think unfortunately bro, we gonna have to eat that shit. To be honest, the stereotypically gay man is entertaining to the media and masc dudes are boring/unknown to them. Its fukd up, but they don’t focus on masc gay men because they have str8 men that fill that slot. Western Society can’t have 2 of a kind. For the viewers, they need The Cut & Dry/Normal Str8, and the Super Gay “Comic Relief”, because that’s really how they’re viewed in the media, like it or…
On your third point…Bro I feel you completely…but can we still talk about it? I mean we got to have some kind of outlet to vent right? Not saying it will change anything but sometimes it does feel good to get stuff off your chest. Regardless, you made a good point.
I mean didn’t CA just post an entire list of masculine black gays on tv like just the other day?
@Hannibal – They did put out a list, however the other side of the Gay Male Media Representation (i.e Effeminate/ Brash/ Bitchy/ Sassy, what-have-you) will ALWAYS outnumber masc gay male representation in the media. There isn’t now, and will never be, a balance between the two images, unfortunately. Just like there will never be a balance between the Str8 Representation and the Gay (of any persuasion) Representation, nor the Minority vs. Caucasian Representation in the media. Sad, but f#$k’n true.
@ocky, I FINALLY have a better understanding on your feelings towards effeminate men, something I was trying to understand since I joined this site. It was just something in your tone, from the CA meetup podcast #3 I think, that seemed very antagonistic towards effeminate dudes. You were saying you didn’t want to be friends, hang out with or have them in your life at all and It was very “strong” and I was just trying to understand but at that time, you did appear to be in any mood to try and explain it so thanks for finally doing that for real.
Another thing. I don’t understand why some people give effeminate men a hard time for being attracted to more masculine men as if they’re being hypocritical. It’s possible to be physically and sexually attracted to someone and not they way they treat you. Straight men complain about “crazy women” all the time to their homeboys and how they need to get away but they’re still straight and still like vagina. They just don’t like straight women who snoop through their phones and stalk them around town or constantly tell them men ain’t shit.
I think the reason for that is we rarely ever see hyper-feminine men lusting after other hyper-feminine men…Like @Ocky has said in the past, they view this as a form of lesbianism, as if masculine men are wrong for being attracted to the same type of men they are attracted to…
Ok. I think I understand, although this could just be greed. Fem guys wanting masc dudes all to themselves or maybe fem dudes just don’t like to be rejected simply for being fem but that would be more of their insecurities.
Off topic a lil bit/maybe not but i wanted to get you and ocky’s opinion and anyone else who cares to chime in on something I’m dealing with and i could see it being something that impacts a friendship like yours possibly and one of mine. Say you have two masculine dudes(best buds). We’ll just call them @nick and @ocky. LOL One of them is very uncomfortable around effeminate dudes and prefers not to have them around socially but the other one is dating/partnered with an effeminate dude who doesn’t feel welcome around best friend. Best friend doesn’t invite him to gatherings, makes jokes when they’re all together, doesn’t include him in boy’s night outs etc when the boyfriends of others are included. Do you put distance between best friend if he can’t accept your effeminate partner? Do you go along with having partner excluded from certain events to make your homeboys feel comfortable? Do you pick a dude who fits in with your friends to begin with? This is like a Dear Abby question.
Yes, I am more comfortable being friends with and/or dating softer guys than Ocky. Would it be a problem if I were dating a dude who was not as masculine as the both of us? Not necessarily, but there wouldn’t be a whole lot of double-dates or anything. Yes, Ocky is less interested and open to hanging out with “soft” or fem guys…but he’s not a Nazi about it. Admittedly, as someone mentioned on the site before, we both do like the fellowship of men who don’t “look gay.” And yes, that means “could pass for straight.” But finding those guys is hard because they are either DL Paranoid or they want to date/have sex with you because they rarely meet truly masculine men either. So some of my other friends (and their friends) are not all hardcore masculine dudes with muscles and fitted caps…and because of that I’ve learned to not invite Ocky to hang with us when we link up or go out for Drinks. But it doesn’t bother me. Well, not anymore. So, no I don’t only date guys who i think Ocky would approve of, fuck him, lol. Everyone, friends & family, has a specific role in your life. In time, they teach you which role they should remain in for all things to be copacetic. This includes my role in the lives of others. Hopefully that answered your question.
What about middle of the road dudes? Can they be down?
Yeah, like I said soft or fem dudes…the non-Kaldick King types…Ocky wouldn’t wanna hang with Tariq but he’d love hanging with Kaldrick. I’m down for both.
Unfortunate. I was looking forward to hanging with Ocky one day and drinking a beer and martini. I guess I’ll just take my soft self to a ball or something.
@Nick, that did provide some real direction. I’ma let it flow and not force things.
and…….I won’t throw a temper tantrum if you guys introduce an “Ask Nick and Ocky section.” It’s all your idea. 😉
and…….thanks for giving me a vocabulary lesson in the process. Copacetic was new and precise. LOL
Im still too mad about Nick making me hear JJ Fool or whatever to have anything else to say.
About the whole thing about gay guys having sex with each other too much and evrything.I think it’s because we don’t have,or a least for a long time,havnt had the possibiliy of marriage.With straight people there’s the notion of will this last,will be be the parent of my kid and so forth.With us there’s not that same concrete idea of long term sucess to strive for so some guys just take what they can get and diregard the person or situation.Of course we can an do have same sex LTRs,but the guys we’re talking about think sex is their compensation.
Hmmm…I’m not sure that I agree with, or even understand, what you mean here…What I thought you were going to say is that gay men are quicker to have sex because the possibility for pregnant, that heterosexuals have to worry about, is eliminated.
What i’m sayinjg is some of these men are thinking more short term than long term.They think being gay limits their possibility of having someone to truly settle down with and things like that,so they are getting as much of what they can get while they can get it.Am i making myself clearer?
I’m just getting to watch this. When have fem gay men ever said masculinity is wrong?
On any given day of the week; masculinity is labeled and viewed as…
Hetero normative
Archaic
Misogynistic
I.e. Negative and it doesnt fit into the gay mainstream narrative. Stop playing.
And it CAN be those things to some people in their experience just like femininity/feminism CAN be certain things to some people in their experience (some feminists man-bash, some uplift women without doing that just like some men present what they consider masculinity in a what may be considered a misogynistic way while many others don’t). Lets accept that in the same way masc guys may be generalized and attacked based off of stereotypes in certain forums, the same thing happens to more feminine guys by some in this and other forums. It goes both ways which is why I don’t get how both sides can’t seem to find some type of common ground in conversation/debate.
Good points but that wasn’t the question asked. Middle ground is hindered by those who control and dictate the conversation which are fem gays and their narrative.
1. I agree w @ocky on the lack of friendships that arent born out of sex btwn gay dudes. It’s one thing to be attracted to sum1, but why does it have to put simply getting to know each other on the back burner.
2. Ive said it many times before, but for many of us eligible bachelors, I think it’s the simple fact that we dont know how to meet each other; let alone being attracted and having shit in common.
3. I dont see many ppl taking Fly Young Red seriously as a rapper.
4. I want everyone (comments on the Voguing doc) to stop acting like they dont know wtf masculinity means. You guys are constantly defending ur stance and Im tired of yall having to do so. I dont run a website, but I also dont understand why yall have to beat a dead horse n why ppl keep playing like everything is interpretive art. That dude down the street is masculine. Heels and bags are not.
5. All we can do is keep showing up
1. I think the embittered gay men teach the new naive gay men how to be just like them. Its a cycle. They got burned by others so they give up and become like the ones who burned them.
2. I don’t agree. The eligible bachelors do know who to meet each other…they’re just too Discreet/Paranoid and are really just waiting for others to approach them or they’re afraid of rejection to approach themselves. Confidence goes a long way. Even with my own insecurities, I bite the bullet and approach men. To be honest, if I wasn’t the creator of this website I would be trying to get at some of you dudes who frequent this space.
3. He’s got a lil talent, I can’t lie…
4. In doing these two blogs I’ve learned that there is a large group of gay men who fit into the middle of the spectrum, not flamboyant but not overly masculine either. So I think many of them are frustrated in not being able to fit into either group, including ours. I sympathize with that. But we still have to keep beating the dead horse to push back on the overall narrative by the feminists and the white gays.
5. Please continue to do so.
I agree with all of your points. In regards to number 4, as someone that falls somewhere in that spectrum (a little softer side as you would call it lol but not fem or hypermasc) I think, at least for me, its less frustration about fitting into either group in the literal sense, and more so an inability to relate at times to the (generalized) extremes that both sides seem to present on certain issues/topics, jmo. The gray area often seems to be left out of the discussion I guess.
@achris, so how does it affect you in real life? Are you able to make friends with like-minded guys or do you feel excluded from both sides in social settings?
Yea my close friends are very like-minded…I have plenty of associates that fall in different places in the spectrum so I definitely don’t feel excluded from either side, in fact I feel quite welcomed (granted I don’t kick it with flamboyant feminine men but there are definitely guys more fem than me that are associates). I never feel the pressure to fall into a certain group simply bc most ppl I know don’t really put too much into grouping themselves (we all know what we are, who we naturally gravitate to for friends and dating, etc). If they are masc they are masc, if they are in-between they are just that, its not really a thing/issue, its not really discussed I guess. Dating wise, I date the exact type of guys I like/am attracted to and I think where I fall on the spectrum plays a part (I have enough masculinity but I wouldn’t say I am the dominant personality in the relationship which I don’t mind).
I suppose its just in the blogsphere that I feel many forums/posts/comments come from an extreme left or right point of view put thats just my perception.
“I suppose its just in the blogsphere that I feel many forums/posts/comments come from an extreme left or right point of view put thats just my perception.”
This is basically what we stated in the podcast, to us its mainly the media (film, tv, websites, etc) that pushes the hyper-feminine stereotypes making it appear that all gay men are like that or really want to be like that and are repressing it. This is partially the reason why we push the other end of the spectrum so heavily…the other reasons is: We are actually what we portray on the site in real life, lol
1. Agree 100%. Which is why Im not surprised when I see a young gay dude who has been kicked out by his family end up in a ballroom house. It’s not like there’s a visible masculine ‘community’ of gay men for said young guy to run to.
2. Idk what else to say, lol
3. Im sure he is, but I cant take sum1 seriously who’s song is called ‘boi pussy’.
4. It’s more aimed at the guys who try to redefine masculinity, simply for gay men. It’s like, funny is funny, talented is talented, while all subjective, but you’d sound crazy saying someone is funny or talented ‘for a gay guy’.
5. While it does apply, I didnt mean to the site, lol. I meant masculine gay men have to keep showing up and being visible, so that we can one day hopefully not be a myth.
LOL gotcha!
RuPaul will not be pleased with this podcast.
Now that made me cackle!!!
First and foremost I’d like to say I’m new to the site and I’m really enjoying the different topics and opinions that are exchanged. You guys are doing a great job. Now as far as “Boy Pussy” I don’t think it’s supposed to be a grammy worthy song. While it’s not something I would listen to, or watch other than to make fun of I don’t think there is anything wrong with it. If this were a straight rapper and the song were about pussy we wouldn’t even care. I can remember seeing videos like this early in the morning on Bet’s Uncut. Pussy is so early 2000’s. The topic in this podcast that stood out to me though was about the blurred lines between friendships and sex. I have one gay friend that there has never been any sexual tension, or feelings involved whether unrequited or mutual. Everyone else, I can’t say the same. I agree that I would like to able to have the same bond with gay men that I had back home with my straight friends who are like brothers to me, but I don’t know if that’ll happen with most. I think it’s the equivalent to the question “Can men and women be just friends?”.
Agreed. Single gay men think all other attractive single gay men are potential partners, even if they get turned down and are now just friends.
I would sleep with at least half of my friends if given the chance #Shrugg
Is that because you’re just attracted to them, or because you like them?
I’m confused by your question. Are you asking if its because I’m physically attracted to them or emotionally attracted? If so…it’s a combination of both I’d imagine as I don’t typically hope to sleep with someone I’m not physically attracted to.
Lol yeah i realized that after i reread the question
Completely agree. I am envious of men that have non sexual bonds with men. I have plenty of friends, but It wasn’t until I watched this that I realised the reason I don’t have a lot of gay male friends is because I’d rather not even get into that slippery slope of “we’ve had sex, but we’re just friends” bs
We’re actually getting some interesting and substantive YouTube comments on this podcast as well…I’m surprised.
https://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=6mYxw0DQFvo
sup guys.. I actually listened to this whole damn thing last night lol when I couldn’t sleep. I thought the podcast was good as always but I gotta REALLY disagree that that Fly Young Red sh*t song or video is progress.
Did you see the thousands and thousands of hate comments? – there really is a backlash growing on many fronts & this only adds to it.
People still have a lot of hate, and the video and song reinforces a stereotype that we are nasty unclean funk. I think this sets us backward right when people were starting to see us as men they could relate to.
But that is my opinion .. other than that the beat isn’t that bad. oh well fuk it. I’ll be in ATL from the 5th thru the 9th helping a close woman friend. But anyway let’s hook up .
btw not everybody is so focused on anal sex, or even into that… some people are into man2man and equal/each other and all that .. + health, the gym, helping others, swimming, current issues etc.., just life man!
(This is an opinion essays I wrote a while back perhaps will add a new view point to the discussion)
In the wake of all these anti-gay laws cropping up throughout the world, it really got me to thinking as to why there is so much hatred and vitriol towards Gay folks, unless you are gay one will never truly understand what that means; much the same way men will never have a full understanding of what it means to give birth, intellectual knowledge is not the same as experiential knowledge.
Gay people are here as spiritual messengers, here to remind us of the oneness of Love; at its core love has no form it has no restrictions, once you move past the inherit illusion of this mortal coil; the only thing that’s left is the soul. The soul is who we are. We are the fingers of god touching the face of this world. And our purpose is to spiritualize the material and bring the experiences of the material back into the heart of God.
If you understand the purpose of reincarnation as I understand it, each life is like a layer of paint on the canvas of the soul, each layer adds to your experiential knowledge. Being Gay is not a sin or a mistake from god, God is beyond the frailties if humanness. Others would argue that being Gay is unnatural that it goes against basic biology; the root of the word natural is nature, if it’s in your nature to be gay then that’s what’s natural for you.
A lot of people try to hide behind the Gospels as a justification to disseminate there hate, but…
I think the problem is the whole concept of gender and how people perceive it to be dualistic (in regards to fems).
Also yall said before that men are becoming fem, which I say considering gays are just getting accepted how do you know most gays weren’t always fem but never felt safe enough to act on it.
Liking masculine stuff is kool, its just the consistent profession of disgust of femininity (or hyper-femininity) that is problematic.
In regards to the 1st part of this Podcast…I think most (gay or str8) dudes don’t feel the need to actively pursue friendships because ideally that’s not something that should need to be “pursued”. Friendships usually just occur. You’re hanging out, someone strike up a convo, people vibe and maintain contact over time, and then before you know it you’ve got a new friend. Relationships/Fuck Partners/etc, all that shit comes with all kinds of criteria and requirements and all other kinds of madness and needs to be “pursued”. I mean, some dudes don’t need to pursue shit because it falls in their laps, but for the average dude (gay or str8) that’s not the stereotypical “fuck everything on two legs” Manwhore, we do tend to have certain criteria that preferably we’de like to have met so we have to actively seek that out. Me personally (I cant speak for anyone else) I’ve tried the meeting new friends shit (not with gay dudes, because I’ve found it never works out) with str8 dudes and it’s always been a hit & miss time thing. Just recently I was really kool with a dude at my job. We went out for drinks and started talking about past relationships (bad ones) and I mentioned a dude I dealt with. Mind you, I never once got the vibe this cat was gay so I never tried to push up on him. Just that NONE of the dudes at my job fuck with me, partially because I do look like I’ll f#$k a nikka up for talking to me, and partially because there’s a LOT of effeminate…
…dudes in my workplace and Im just not interested in getting to know them, on any level. Anyways, long story short, we finished up our beers, bullshitted some more about little things here and there and went our perspective ways. Come to find out dude has now cut me off. I’ve never pretended to be str8, never mentioned anything about my sexual preference. Most people (the women) in my job know Im gay, I know it pisses them off, but they know so I just assumed at some point someone may have mentioned to him and he just didn’t give a fuck, Wrong. LOL Anyways, Im rambling on. Point is dudes don’t seek friends because it’s not something of top priority for most of us, just something that happens or dont happen. Top (social) priority for most dudes is getting ass/pu$$y/dick, or finding a “Cuff Up”/Fuck Buddy/Temp BF/ or LTR, and that RARELY just happens out of the blue.
One other thing…to expect gay dudes to be able to exhibit the same friendship based traits with one another that str8 dudes do, it’s not gonna happen (like Ock mentioned, it’s a Utopia) We’re gay, we’re attracted to men. Chicks say the same thing about trying to be friends with str8 guys, it’s near impossible cause at SOME point, unless one or the other is just BUTT ugly, they’re going to get it in. I believe it’s the same with dudes. It’s very difficult to establish/maintain a friendship with your “prey” so-to-speak. It’s not “impossible”, but there do need to be certain “filters” in place in order for it to occur, and one of those filters is usually the level of attractiveness. Two fly ass, gay dudes (especially masculine) 9 1/2 x’s out of 10 are gonna end up gettin’ it in within the first few months of a “friendship”, if that was not the initial intent of the encounter. Its like expecting a snake to befriend a mouse.