The Cypher Avenue podcast is officially back! Not only did we return to the scene with our longest podcast yet, we also recorded it live! We had very few glitches and a lot of great questions asked by listeners so it was a total success on our end.
Our topic for the show was Relationships, Sex, Dating & Down Low Denial as Modern Masculine Gay Men.
What does that even mean? Well, we feel that show many other (awesome) websites, bloggers and video commentators never really speak on the sex/dating experience specifically from the view of masculine gay men. Or even bisexuals. Or even men who are more reserved or private and not heavily into the gay scene. We’re here to offer that perspective through conversation as well as questions from our Cypher Avenue members.
Hopefully our first show was both entertaining and informative. Let us know what you think.
MP3 VERSION:
Did I miss Cypher Ave Podcast #2?
Excellent job fellas. Glad the podcasts are back.
“Tight titty shirts”, lol (offense taken!! :D)
Another good one tho. As for the relationship segment…as a 20-something, it definitely hit home…the truth kinda sux. But I agree w/ yall for the most part.
IDK what it is w/ us that we’d trust & hook up w/ a stranger (regardless if we talked online & texted for a month..1st visits mean more). Gettin stabbed to death @ 3 a.m. is never on the agenda, but I feel like we all (or many of us) err on the risky side every once in a while. And maybe it’s just my occasionally morbid sense of humor, but when @nick brought this part up, I literally burst into laughter. It’s all truth tho.
LOL yeah my brain works in weird ways
So I just finish listening to the podcast and I have a question for @nick and @ocky and all other viewers, but as a masculine man when it comes to sex, do you ever feel less of man being penetrated or even “cleaning yourself out” (douche’ing)?
How do you handle that feeling? It’s something as a younger guy I def have issues dealing with.
I can’t say penetration has ever made me feel like less than a man. Is it possible that you feel that way because you just don’t like sex as a bottom?
I enjoy it, it just sometimes i feel a lil weird and like my manhood has been taken sometimes
Oh damn. Well, if you only feel that way sometimes, I wouldn’t trip on it. I’ve talked to straight dudes who don’t like it when a chick is on top during sex because they feel like she is in control. The act itself however, doesn’t make them any less of a man though. My suggestion: Find a way to take some control when you bottom.
You can’t feel like that. If every bottom felt like that there would be no bottoms.
But not all bottoms still identify as men, and im not a bottom, being a versatile guy has it challenges. I want to make my sexual partner happy and satisfied but literally when a guy is try to plow inside u, I feel I lose some of my power and my manhood
Bro, that’s just an idea that comes from a society with a fucked up sense of what it means to be a man… All of that stuff about someone’s manhood being taken as a result of anal sex is a cliche’ that comes from prison culture and used to describe the feeling a man has after having sex forced upon him.
I struggled with that same shit real bad, even now when I do it I have to be with someone who’s not overly aggressive and dominant, that’s just not cool lol, but I do allow myself to enjoy it and not trip off it.
If your partner makes you feel comfortable enough to share that with him and you don’t feel forced into it, don’t cheat yourself of the experience by letting your concerns drift to whether or not the act jeopardizes your manhood. Sex doesn’t make or break a man – its a beautiful event that brings people closer together. Your manhood is established by being responsible and true in your intentions. The strictest top can be the biggest nothing of a man.
Take control of your own perception bro and allow yourself to like it if you like it man… The cleaning up part is always gon be a necessary bitch, but even that doesn’t infringe on your manhood, that’s just good hygiene! lol
@william This is a question that you will need to analyze and answer from within. If you receive pleasure from being penetrated then why do you then feel shame, loss of power and manhood? Only you know you better than anyone else.
Is it past experiences, society norms, ideology? Only you know.
I need to start marking my calendar for these podcasts, I would be calling in like a muhfucka lmao…
This was a deep one fellas, especially for a 20-something like my man Drewski mentioned. I think there was some solid rationale as to why men in their 20’s appear to be so relationship hungry. On a very remarkable level, the sheer fact that y’all pinpointed this demographic allows those who identify with it the opportunity to assess themselves for themselves. Now you have the 20 somethings that see problematic behavior patterns and begin to develop a better approach to relationships.
The incessant drive to be in a relationship is caused by different things to different people like you guys outlined here. I think the age range that was highlighted, which I belong to, really needs to be aware of their own behavior patterns. If we remedy some of these ill developed senses of self and relationships early on, then we will be less likely to enter our later decades damaged, bitter, and completely unable to sustain a satisfying relationship.
Still, we need courage to do this soul searching and the steadfast belief that it is naturally better to be single if we haven’t been presented with one that genuinely makes us feel comfortable. Dudes just need to relax, take the time for what it’s worth…
I think discussions like this is really good to get/keep everyone on the path of encouragement. Looking forward to the next one!
Thanks for that message. Very insight and on point.
Yes, yes, a 100 times YES. Thank u.
The podcast was everything and more. The whole down low thing is what I’m dealing with right now. I will get through it though. Not that I’m on the down low BUT I am suspecting that someone I’ve met possibly is.
I like how you guys just keep it TOO REAL. LOL. Was entertaining. Can’t wait for the next podcast.
Thank man for listening. We really enjoyed doing it and I can’t wait for the next one.
Fo sho! I can’t wait either man!
Nice work on the podcast and love what you’re doing with CA
Regarding being single and in my 20s (I’m 32), I remember how scary it was to abandon key assumptions upon which society tells straight dudes they can rely: eventually, you’ll have a wife, a house, a car, and a few kids. No matter what happens in your 20s, you’ll end up married before 40 with some security and stability.
When I thought I was straight, I believed that stuff; and it was real scary abandoning those hetero assumptions. Because then what? If I’m gay, I just get AIDS? It’s like I give up a safe vision of my future for no vision at all. If I’m gay, what is supposed to happen to me?
So dating in my 20s, I was also looking for some kind of meaning: what can I expect from a gay relationship? Can I still have that stability I always thought I would have – and be gay?
Anyway, now that we have progress like gay marriage, I don’t worry like I did. And I’m also about to get married to a dude, myself, in just a few weeks. So it got better, but man it didn’t have to.
For me, dating in my 20s was often like: what the hell does dating a dude even mean? What can I expect my life is going to be like? Just trying to have a relationship was maybe the only way to find out.
@kasule “I remember how scary it was to abandon key assumptions upon which society tells straight dudes they can rely: eventually, you’ll have a wife, a house, a car, and a few kids.”
This here is money…man. I remember coming to terms that I would never be married to a woman and have a traditional family. Honestly I had forgotten until I read your comment that I also made that mental transition.
I like the live podcast. Being able to ask questions on ustream is cool, but I think you might have something good going on with the Skype calls. I noticed you only took one though. In the future, I think you should screen callers before the show. I know that’s difficult because it takes time and the conversation you have during the show may span a bunch of different topics. But, if you give the audience a general idea of topics of discussion, they can prepare questions and responses beforehand. By screening callers beforehand, you can lay down ground rules for the callers, set time limits, pace yourself, better prepare for the show, and weed out all the weirdos. It’d be nice to hear the voices of some of the folks who frequent the site.
I’ve been a silent participant of CA now for several months and finally got the courage/motivation to jump into the discussions for the first time here, even though I think the guys misunderstood my question about the litmus test for comfortably dating a guy and being discreet. I think it was an unclear question. But I must say two masculine men being in a relationship is something that is very confusing to me. I haven’t been able to make it work myself and I think it’s because of the way I interpret how a masculine man wants to be treated. It’s funny to me how straight men, or at least the ones I know that are married, have no problem being super romantic with their wives and having their wives being super romantic with them but when it comes to me trying to be romantic with another masculine dude, I’m told I’m treating them like a female. LOL.
I think I must’ve listened to the old Discreet City Relationship Podcast with Ocky and Prince D literally 50 times trying to decipher different meanings and feelings about how the two of them communicate with each other i.e. language, voice inflection and so forth. It’s clear they are both very masculine guys and love each other very much and it’s nice to hear that but then there are parts where I listen and I hear situations that I’ve been through where I’ve been told that I’m treating a guy too much like a female and I just wonder how they handle such situations. For instance, when Ocky asked Prince D how he…
When Ocky asked Prince D what…what dammit LOL…you left me hanging.
sorry. Didn’t realize it cut off. As i was saying, when Ocky asked Prince D how he envisioned their future, the whole exchange made me feel a certain kinda way. It seems like Ocky was expecting a certain answer like Prince D saying he sees them being old gray haired men, married with a house and 3 kids. When Prince D said he doesn’t really think about it in that way, i could hear Ocky take a deep sigh and say uh huh. But Prince D’s initial response was typical of the responses i get when i try and be a little sentimental like that with a masculine dude. But a few minutes later, when Prince D explained the vision board and how Ocky is on there as the dude he wants to make happy everyday, it seems Ocky felt a little better about it. That was just one point that struck a nerve with me for some reason. I sorta replay it in my mind so much and wonder how two masculine guys deal with romanticism and leadership in their relationships. This was just one of a couple of moments during that podcast that had my behind up all night trying to figure stuff out. It’s still on my mind actually and that podcast has been how long ago? LOL
Just to elaborate, from beginning to end, it was like a totally new experience to hear them go from speaking to each other in a loving tone(describing how they met at the house party with Ocky practically blushing when he said he was waiting for Prince D) to them being what i would consider a little more forceful with each other(Ocky wanting to punch him in his face on the dock in Florida) back to being lovey dovey(Ocky describing how Prince D fulfilled his dreaming of having a masculine dude he could fully travel with.) I’m being honest when i say it seemed surreal to me how they do this. There seem to be no hurt feelings, and i can’t tell which one is dominant in the relationship which means they’ve found a way to strike a balance in the relationship between two alpha males. This by the way is almost unheard of even in the animal kingdom.
Yeah @rolandgarros28, please don’t hesitate to continue: just use a new post. You left us hanging!
(that is: I had my own thoughts on that Podcast and want to see if you’ll confirm them LOL!)
What’s so funny @kasule? I told you i’m so new to this site I don’t even know when my comments aren’t fully posted. LOL. I’m learning as I go. So what are your thoughts on that podcast? I’m really interested in hearing them.
Well look, I’m not going to touch specifics of the whole @ocky Prince D thing.
What I will say is: I understand how confusing gay relationships can appear. As kids, nobody sat us on their lap and talked to us about dating a dude; if our parents ever gave dating advice, it was about women. not much help there.
Because we didn’t get those messages from parents nor society, I also understand that a person might look real deep for answers about two masculine dudes in a relationship and how that works.
That said, I would encourage you to pull back from scrutinizing the subtleties of the @ocky and Prince D podcast – in that way. Given that your questions are big and the podcast was one hour between two dudes, you might not find the answers you’re looking for.
To get at your question I would say that, for all the discourse on CA about masculinity/femininity, at the end of the day, everyone is an individual: there is no anticipating exactly how a “masculine” or “feminine” man wants to be treated in a relationship. Some masculine dudes like flowers as a gift; some feminine dudes like UFC. Whatever.
That means that: when you approach dating a masculine dude, just pay attention to who he is and take him as that. If you go at it like he’s feminine/masculine, so he wants to be treated like blah-blah-blah, you might be missing out on who this dude truly is. And no podcast or external relationship can teach you that.
Regarding who is the dominant partner in a relationship: that’s unique to every individual relationship.
I’ve been with my dude as long as @ocky has been with his. Neither of us dominates. We just co-exist. We talk. We compromise. We just make that work. Nobody really dominates, forces, or coerces another to do anything.
Depending on how you view masculinity, I can say that to me, it’s pretty “manly” to be savvy in a relationship: know how to manage the different personalities, compromise, and be a good man.
Like @nick @jonah and @acennential pointed out: maybe the whole “dominating” concept is hyper-masculinity, anyway. Being dominating isn’t a necessary ingredient for manhood.
So look: I get gay dating is real confusing. It is. Like @nick says: it’s complicated; there is so much to consider. I understand looking for answers. But you might not find them in someone else’s relationship (podcast) – and if you do look there, you might end up frustrated.
Maybe ease up a bit on that and focus on yourself and your partner and you’ll find your answers, because every relationship (with masculine dudes or whatever) is different.
Thanks for the advice man. I didn’t mean to come off as someone who was stalking their relationship. LOL. I’m just trying to think to myself if I know two masculine dudes in a successful relationship, either personally or in media, and I honestly can’t name one. It wasn’t so much looking at the specifics in the podcast but more so how to masculine dudes are able to relate to each other and show affection and one not feel awkward about how he is being treated. I agree that I should focus on the specific guy and how he should be treated but the problem is most of the masculine guys I’ve dated aren’t sure how they want to be treated or they’re very uncomfortable with another guy being romantic in the hetero-traditional way. I’m trying very hard not to fall into the category of dating a man and relating to him as a man would relate to a woman or either a more feminine dude and I guess part of the problem could be me. I admit that.
Anyway, I’m glad to see that you have been in a successful relationship for almost 4 years and that you’ve found a way to make it work for you and your partner. Hey @Kasule, read Nicks old article “Relationship Oriented vs Hookups and I think you’ll get a better idea of the type of guys i’m meeting. Again it could be me but it really is confusing to date masculine guys who aren’t comfortable with romance. Without being too specific, how did you make it work? Was it a nat. fit with your guy or did you have to work on…
Yeah I hear what you’re saying: there’s been lots of discourse on DC/CA about how there’s no depiction in the media of two masculine dudes in a successful relationship; I don’t think I know any on a personal level, either. That gets a bit lonely and frustrating.
I read Nick’s article on relationships vs. hookups. On my end, I readily admit that I live under a bit of a rock: I’ve been out of the dating thing for years now; I live in a country where gays live in the closet. I don’t have many gay friends at this very moment, in this country. So my input might be a bit stale sometimes. I apologize for when that’s the case.
Regarding my relationship: we were just a natural fit. It’s like we just “got” each other; and if we didn’t then we could work towards communicating and accommodating. It does take work sometimes, but that’s the nature of the beast.
Still, I can say there ARE guys out there with whom it is easier to be romantic: you don’t have to always get the pushback. It may require lots of patience and searching, but you can find a dude like that.
Cool. I’ve really been in a quandary lately as to how to shake things up for myself. I said on another post that just meeting a descent dude is hard enough. I’m from a nice medium sized city and it’s not a huge gay metropolis so I do feel that masculine men are hard to pinpoint if you know what I mean. I have a more feminine friend and he gets hit on all the time by gay men that we meet together and I have no idea the guy is even gay. He actually went out with this nice looking guy once and it didn’t work out because my friend was too feminine and my friend told him about me. He actually approached me later and said he had no idea I was gay or he would’ve gone for me. Too late though since you’ve already made the moves on my friend.
I’m not sure of how to get to that point of having a successful relationship yet. I’ve even pulled myself from the dating scene to try and work on myself a little to make sure my expectations and whole idea of dating a masculine dude are in line with each other. I even considered moving to a larger city where the options might be a little better, but from seeing the guys on here from gay meccas, they aren’t having much luck themselves. LOL. You guys that have found that someone are so lucky. It’s a struggle out here. LOL
@rolandgarros28 @kasule
Full disclosure *when Prince D and I were doing the relationship podcast we had just had an argument and were still very salty with each other…even when the podcast was over.*
LOL…I love my baby. On every single vacation we go on we fight. Many times we don’t remember why but we always remember the fun we have had.
This means there is an effort on my end to try to understand him and vice versa. I think a lot of men have disagreements and even fights and can brush it off and move on. Yes I understand this can be complicated when homosexuality is involved but does it have to be?
Nick and I have had disagreements (dude went off on me about something I wasn’t doing for the website) I had to check my ego, STFU and take it. Once Nick get what he had to say off his chest, he was good…fuck my hurt feelings I was good.
Prince D and I bump heads all the time just as most family, friends and couples but we still just dudes in the end that want to be heard and understood. Love, respect and communication. As long as these lines are open all is possible.
I think we only get mad at and argue with people if we care about them.It’s a necessity of being open and honest.I know for me if I dont ever disagree with you,it’s because you have a minimal presence in my life.
Yeah. This makes sense to me. As I said, I’m really using this site as not just entertainment, and it’s a hell of an entertaining website by the way, but it’s really opening my eyes to see how guys here handle certain situations in life. The dudes on here don’t even seem to mind when Nick and Ocky and others call them on their bullshit. Honestly, I’m thinking it was a good thing for me to sit idle, alone for a while and not date. In many ways, I think I long for a break in the constant high levels of testosterone in my relationships sometimes while maintaining that masculinity and I haven’t quite figured it out yet but I’m beginning to see some things. About how to treat a grown ass man and listen and communicate. Not ready to test It yet though. LOL
I really appreciate the website guys even though I’ve been pissed off so many times reading articles. LOL But that just means it showed me something I needed to see about myself. I think I’m even at the point where I’m ready to donate to support you guys as you’ve asked. Keep it coming.
So, random thought…
Nick, you said that you wouldn’t be interested in dating a well known gay guy or “gay celebrity” who was on a web-series for example. I’m the same way, I’m into guys who are a little more under the radar.
But here’s my question for you, and for myself for that matter. Would you date someone who played in the NFL or the NBA? Or someone who was, let’s say a “mainstream” celebrity.
That story that Nick told at the end about his friend was HILARIOUS!
*thumbs up/thumbs down*
So that made me think of something. How come heterosexual men seem to get away with being more flamboyant in their fashion choices, compared to gay men who get frowned upon or get looked at as being undesirable. Look at Chris Brown and August Alsina for example.