No Fems, Fats, Asians, Blacks, Queers, Short People, Mexicans, Tops, Bottoms or White Dudes And Must Be HIV Neg

By OckyDub | Posted Apr 7 2014 | 19 Comments  


I read an article by a gay man on a mainstream website that stated in the very first paragraph, “I got all dressed up and feeling sexy and went to a party and didn’t get one number or one guy to hit on me”. That article was written by a man of color who went to a gay function where the attendees were primarily White. In another article on a mainstream website I read, “Must be disease free. I was online and all I saw were guys who didn’t want me because of my HIV status”. That was written by an HIV positive man discussing HIV shaming within the online gay community. He used this example because the profiles he saw online from men were seeking only HIV negative men.

I thought I didn’t have anything else to contribute to the subject of faux racism, pseudo effemiphobia, fat and HIV shaming when it comes to online dating profiles (I’ve discussed it before) but I was wrong. If a man wants to have sex with another man who displays traditional male qualities, has a certain appearance, is of a certain race, is of a certain age range and has a certain body type in the wrong for his personal preferences or desires? Well according to many mainstream gay outlets, he is.

When I was in the online dating and hooking up universe, I personally didn’t care about the characteristics that I was lacking or that didn’t apply to me based upon these random online profiles. I didn’t care about the Submissive Bottoms, Must be 10 inches plus, Whites Only, No Asians, Tops Only, Anything Goes, “I’m in shape and you be too” crowd. I simply scrolled past them and didn’t give it a second thought. They were not for me and I wasn’t for them, no worries in my book.

According to my friend and business partner, the “I don’t care” attitude that I possess as it pertains to this subject is a byproduct of my privilege. I’m privileged because I’m masculine, considered attractive and for the most part, in shape.  In the gay dating hierarchy, I’m considered more desirable amongst the gays so not only does the “No-Fat-No-Fems” mantras don’t apply they also don’t sting.  Ok, well using that same logic, why don’t the Whites Only, Must Be Well Endowed, Tops Only or Submissive Bottom requests bother me? I’m not well endowed by porn standards, I’m not a top or submissive bottom and as Black man (who has experienced overt racism and institutional racism) the Whites Only tag doesn’t offend me. What are the superhuman mystical powers I wield that allows me to fend off the evils of being offended when it comes to these online profiles? Maybe it’s because I’m not a possessor of the perpetual state of gay victim-hood or entitlement.

At least once a month on some mainstream queer leaning website or gay blog, there is a new article about hookup apps and the negative dating preferences of the users on said apps. The authors of these articles talk about racism, fem bashing and various forms of “shaming” that persists through-out numerous profiles in the online/app gay communities. Some of these articles are thought provoking; nonetheless many of these articles are mostly “I want sex or love and can’t find it online because of racism, femaphobia, fat and HIV shaming” in disguise.

Via their own admissions within their articles, many of these authors are either effeminate, fat, of the wrong ethnicity (white only) or HIV positive. They claim they are the undesirables at the bottom tier of the online/dating app sexual landscape. I’m not saying this perception may not have some truth but is it the whole truth? Are we to fully believe that gay men regardless if they’re fem, fat, men of different ethnicities and HIV positive are not hooking up and having sex? I think there is a bit of entitlement at play or adult men who can’t handle rejection? If said rejected offendees have spent countless hours online, taken the time to create a profile, write a short bio, list their hobbies and upload a pic of their shirtless torso or with them smiling with bedroom eye as they lay on white bed sheets caressing a pillow with their ass tooted up in the air, then automatically they should have an inbox full of suitors in waiting, right?

Be Honest, You’re Looking For Sex?

Let’s not play games here or beat around the bush, many online dating sites and apps are primarily used for (not their only use) sexual hookups and one night stands for gay men. Can we just admit it? That being said, for many men, time can be of the essence. Most guys get on when they want to engage in sexual activity and they want that experience to be worthwhile. Regardless of their reasons, most men have perimeters and preferences of what they want and how they want it. Hence the laundry lists of demands and qualifications including “No Fems, Fats, Asians, Blacks, Tops, Bottoms, etc. This is where the problems begin for the users or subscribers who don’t fit the bill.

To reiterate, these authors and the men who think like them are afraid to admit “I’m on a hookup app or online looking for sex and can’t score because the people I want don’t want to have sex with me.” This morphs into, “Oh My God, I’m tired of this happening. I’m a gay victim or a serial queer rejectee and I must write an article about it to express my rejection outrage”. Not realizing they are zeroing in and focusing on those that don’t want them and neglecting those that may be interested in them. In my opinion it’s a classic case of focusing on the negative and not the positive.

Could There Be Something Lacking Within You?

I have heard some men say that it can get demoralizing seeing “No Fat or Fems” over and over again. Why is that? What’s going on within you that anonymous, random and obscure strangers on the internet and apps impact your life to the point that you are demoralized? As a man who is introverted, a home-body, suffers from social anxiety, who’s had low self-esteem, coupled with aggression and anger issues; the sexual and dating preferences of others online NEVER bothered me. I was online looking for something just as they were. Why would I invest so much time and emotional mental energy into numerous profile on a computer screen that didn’t want me?

Even if they looked appealing to me, yes I may stop and ogle at their pic for a second or three but I wouldn’t waste me time to challenge them about their preferences, racism, or shaming. I just didn’t care and more importantly why should I? There were plenty of other men to choose from. In my opinion, online and app profiles that have preferences are a time saver. If you deem these preferences are bigoted, racist or femaphobic be grateful that these men have saved you time and made it that much easier for you to find what you may be looking for, which obviously isn’t them.

Ambiguity begets trolls, jerks, bigots and racists.

We should all know there is good and bad in everything. The internet and aspects of social media are not exempt. There are hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) of positively impactful spaces online and there are just as many of those that are hateful and negative. The internet and social media allows many individuals to operate within a level of secrecy and ambiguity. Thus it empowers them to be trolls, jerks, bigots and racists.

There have been a couple of studies recently that high light sexist, homophobic and racist language via Twitter (view examples here and here). Regardless of my personal stance as it pertains to individual’s anti-gay or racist views, I personally support them in their right to say what they want, as long as it doesn’t insight direct violence upon others. If I want to speak freely than other should also be afforded the same rights and courtesies. I may even speak out in opposition of their point of view; nonetheless I understand they exist and will always exist. That doesn’t mean I should empower them by giving them more attention than they deserve. As an adult man, if you can’t handle rejection via the internet, disconnect and grow a thicker skin. Preferably around your nutt sack!

Ignoring The Online Gay Meanies Is Easier Said Than Done…

Why? We’re not talking cyber bulling between high school kids, we’re talking about adult gay men being offended by profiles of strangers. In my mind it’s simple. If you’re offended by the phrase;

No Fems: This one is confusing to me. There are so many men out there who prefer and love fem men. I know finding the right guy may take some work but please stop acting like fem men are not hooking up, dating, desirable and in relationships when reality states differently.

No Fats: Replace the word “Fem” with the word “Fat or Chubby” within the above statement.

Whites Only / No Blacks or Asians: Why does it seem like gays who are offended by “Whites Only” in online or app profiles are Asian, Black or Latino men who are looking for “Whites Only”? It’s like you’re saying you’re upset that white men want the same thing you want. As a Black homosexual man I do recognize that I’ve primarily had sex with and dated Black men and that’s because of the environments I grew up in. Not only is Black culture what I’m accustomed to but it’s also what’s relatable for me. How is this any different from the majority of Caucasians who profess “No Blacks or Asians” for their sexual or dating partner? The majority of societies date, have sex with and couple with those of the same race so why should gay men be any different? Isn’t that part of the Gay Rights Movement; to show how “normal” we are just like the rest of society?

Masculine Only: If there are men online who’re looking to date or have sex with only other masculine men, this is a bad thing why? Masculinity is attractive and desirable for many gay men; get over it.

Must be HIV negative: Some men with HIV seem offended when online and see this type of statement. There is an abundance of gay men who are HIV negative and want to remain that way. Not wanting to date or have protected sex with an HIV positive individual is their choice. Respect that and move on.

So Now What?

  • I absolutely think gay men need to rethink and change their mind sets when it comes to this topic. We are not talking about employment discrimination or the fight for marriage equality; this is online dating and sex.
  • I understand that some gay habits die hard. Many guys have formed habits of using technology as their only means for meeting other men. Some of these GPS technological advances maybe great for a quickie but may not be so great for anything meaningful. That’s not to say it can’t happen.
  • If you’re looking for something more, the internet and apps should not be your primary way of meeting men. Don’t limit your social interactions and put so much stock into these apps and online sites. Need some suggestions? Check out the articles here, here, here and here.
  • Many of us really need to rethink rejection. This is one of life’s great time savers that also help to build graciousness and character.
  • A lot of men lie or are deceptive concerning their profiles. From their looks, body types, STD status, endowment, sexual position, masculinity, you name it and many online profiles usually have at least one deception within them. So why take them seriously or more importantly be offended by them?
  • Stop thinking rejection means that you are undesirable. There are plenty of men who desire you. Blacks, Fems, Bottoms, Chubs, Asians, Bears, Tops, Whites; you name it and horny men OR men looking for something more meaningful want you. Focusing on those who want you means focusing on the positive.
  • I’m not saying racism doesn’t exist within the confines of someone’s personal preferences, I am saying under no circumstances should you care.

When I had an online profile on one of the gay dating sites years ago; I asked a buddy of mine to read it so he could give me his feedback. After reading, he felt my profile was somewhat antagonistic, a little anti-social, a bit immature and a bit cookie cutter with my headless muscular torso. I didn’t have any hobbies listed outside of video games, movies and the gym. I also had “No Fems” listed. He suggested I change somethings, add somethings and delete the “420” reference and the “No Fems” phrase. He also suggested replacing “No Fems” with “looking for a masculine man”. At that time, I wasn’t focused on making new friends and I wasn’t ready for a relationship but I was open to dating and sex.

The good thing was I started getting more messages in my inbox. The bad thing was that the majority of the men that sent the messages was effeminate or not to my masculine standards (yes, my standards). After speaking with the men who did past the phone test, I eventually would meet up with them for a date. Most times after meeting them face to face, I thought “okay I certainly see fem characteristics and mannerisms” and after they had a couple of drinks and begin to get comfortable the “real them” would come out. Now I’m looking at this dude like, “why or how do you consider yourself masculine when it’s clearly not who you really are”? Why did these men think it was wrong to be effeminate to the point that they would be misleading about it? It’s like the guy lying about his body type. If we’re gonna get naked, you know I will see the truth right?

Getting back to my point, I dealt with what I felt were these men not being completely truthful about their masculinity. I made it a point to enjoy my date night regardless if there wasn’t a love connection. After dealing with this type of situation over 15 times, there was money spent and time invested which other men may not have the patience for. I can easily see some men not being as understanding which could lead to frustration, which could lead to “No Fems” being stubbornly displayed in online profiles in hopes of not having the experiences I had. I’m not saying I agree, I’m just saying I understand.

We can absolutely have a conversation about the causes of our attractions and preferences; however we need to stop getting offended because someone doesn’t find us desirable and learn how to properly handle rejection.



About the Author

Octavius is a founder and editor of Cypher Avenue. He's here to help speak for us and show the world that masculine gay / bisexual men of color are not a part of the stereotypical gay normal that is seen and fed to the masses. No...we are a distinct breed, filled with character and pride. Cypher Avenue is here to show the world how we are different.

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19 Comments Feel Free To Join The Cypher.

  1. Rox808 | April 7th, 2014

    I talked about this in the pod cast. I had a grind and jacks for awhile and it was great for hookups. Until I was somewhat burned then it just was more of a bad crutch for me. A crutch that didn’t help at all and probably made my situation worse. I used the app as a way to deal with a break up. This process took over a year. I have actually met some cool people out of it, but like I would try my hardest to never go back to it. I don’t knock anyone who uses it still or just started using it. I would just say that the app has pretty much one designated purpose and u should not try to dilute yourself in thinking that this is the main place to meet a great guy. I would say sites like “cypheravenue” work great! 🙂 actually met some intelligent men on this site and there is more potential to find meaningful relationships when ur on a site that’s main mission isn’t about sex. How are the sites doing btw? Hahaha.

  2. Jronn
    Jronn | April 7th, 2014

    What a great revamp to this issue…I will agree that too many gay dudes are way too sensitive…the bottom line is that folks like what they like, and just because they don’t like you (or who they assume you are) shouldn’t be an issue. But the real deal is those dudes with the hurt feelings are usually going after body boyz types … Hey man, that’s life, rejection is a part of life and learning how to navigate it is one of its lessons. Rest assure that everyone had stood in someone’s rejection line…it’s nothing new. And it won’t stop. Just understand that every thing ain’t for everybody…love what you have going on and you will attract what you need…and not what U temporarily think u want

  3. hannibal
    Hannibal | April 7th, 2014

    I like what I like but I don’t summarily cutoff a certain group of people based on superficial things.

    • Ocky Williams | April 7th, 2014

      So does that mean you date men you don’t like so you will not appear as if you are “cutting them off”?

      • Steven A | May 6th, 2014

        I think what he means is that he gives them a chance to be a person, instead of cutting his nose to spite his face. You never know who you might meet, and when you eliminate people over numbers in a profile or a less than opportune pic, it can cause you to miss out on a really great guy.

  4. RolandG
    rolandgarros28 | April 7th, 2014

    Yo @Ocky, question. Would your advice on how to handle rejection be the same in real life situations instead of apps? More specifically, I think it comes down to just basic decency on how to treat another person. I get what you’re saying about not letting anonymous online profiles destroy one’s life, however, would it be socially acceptable to you and others if dudes talked to each other like this face to face? Your point about these apps being for hookups and such is spot on and for that reason I think guys shouldn’t put much stock into it when trying to find partners. I’ve been asked out before by guys in person that I didn’t find attractive and I just said no thanks I’m not dating right now or something to that effect. I didn’t say you’re too fat or you’re too effeminate or you’re not thuggish enough. Like you said, the anonymity of online gives people carte blanche to be assholes. Can anything be done about that aspect? Probably not but it doesn’t make it untrue.

    • lyriq88
      Lyriq | April 8th, 2014

      I know your question was posed to @Ocky, but I just wanted to say that I agree with Ocky. I won’t lie, I read the word “masculine” A MILLION times on this site and sometimes sit here thinking “Okay… we get it dawg” quite often, but I feel his delivery here! But yes, I think it’s perfectly fine to say these things on a dating app.

      You’re into what you’re into. As long as you’re not saying things like “Ewwww, no fats, fems & HIV people. Y’all are sick and disgusting, gtfoh” I think you’re in the clear. It’s an advertisement. A posting letting you know up front what kind of guy I am and what I require. If an ad in the paper is looking for a chef that specializes in Asian cuisine, should I be offended because my specialty is soul food or pastries? No! My particular talents doesn’t strike the fancy of the person requesting services. Now what if I KNOW I want Asian and I put a vague ad up requesting just “a cook” & you come in cooking pasta or some shit? Now I’m disappointed and have to get rid of you. I’ve wasted my time & yours. Same logic applies in my book.

      I agree with Ocky about grown men not handling rejection well. I’m a masculine light skinned man who isn’t AMAZINGLY well endowed, not a top or bottom & has a small belly. I don’t get offended when a man wants a dark skinned man, muscular, 10 inch dick or a FULL top or FULL bottom. I just move on and get in where I fit in.

      And trust me, I’m SOMEBODY’s type. We all are…!

  5. Madb86 | April 7th, 2014

    Great topic. I’ve come to realize “Dating” apps are for hooking up. In fact, I think the only dating sites or apps that are geared towards people truly connecting are the ones that you have to pay for monthly. What person that wants to just fuck would pay money to create a profile when they can just get Jack’d for free and hookup with someone in the immediate vicinity? People that are open to finding something meaningful generally can look past a few of their stipulations. I’ve been rejected because of my weight, or because I wasn’t looking to have sex at that moment and I agree with you 100% about manning up and moving on. They are doing you a favor by telling you who they are and what they do not want on their profile. Most profiles are hilarious to me actually. The only issue I think that comes with that is you have people being conditioned to lie and masquerade as someone they are not just for the sake of not being rejected.

    • RolandG
      rolandgarros28 | April 7th, 2014

      @madb86, I agree with you about the fee based dating sites. I’ve never done the dating apps because it can be a cesspool of ignorance and immaturity to be honest. I’ve always wondered why some people have so many unrealistic requirements like they’re the bomb looking for other bombs when, in reality, they’re reduced to having to meet guys on an app instead of in person. Not all guys mind you but a lot of them think more of themselves than others and revert to a high school mentality. I’d rather run into someone interesting at a starbucks instead of online. I just have to find someone to run into. LOL

      • Madb86 | April 7th, 2014

        lol I’m sorry Im cracking up from you saying “the bomb”. And I’m right there with you. I’d rather meet someone in person. It’s way more romantic, I think. Although of course, I’ve been told I have very simplistic and unrealistic ideas of romance, chemistry, passion, love, etc.

        • RolandG
          rolandgarros28 | April 8th, 2014

          LOL. Ok. I’m old fashioned. What are people using now in place of the bomb? LMAO

      • ControlledXaos | May 27th, 2014

        If you live in a Miami, Atlanta, or an LA, then your ability to meet other guys in real life is expanded exponentially. There’s a ‘gay side of town’ and many gay friendly places that can cater to a variety of different gay sub cultures. It’s one of the reasons why these big cities are the meccas they are and it’s something that if you’ve lived in a major city all of your life, you might take for granted until you visit your Grandma who lives in Mayberry.

        In a small town/state/region you may have 2-3 clubs. 1 club may be a black one. These clubs, in my experience, end up trying to please everyone or the lowest common denominator. I’m not one for drag shows, J-settes, and ‘gay frats’. I can’t relate to those crowds and while I have been out a few times, I wouldn’t say that in my area, they would be reliable places to meet guys beyond a hookup but there would definitely be at least a few guys there in the same situation but you’d never know unless you strike conversation with them.

        So, many end up going to apps because it is pretty simple: Man who is in to men is 3394 feet away with a torso pic that may or may not be his with stats that may or may not be true.

        What I don’t understand is how so many small town gays, try to act like they are major mecca gays. If you are in a small town, you can’t really screw every dude in the area because there are not that many to begin with and then plow through that group (figuratively) yet are expecting a new crop of…

  6. Cajiva | April 10th, 2014

    Ocky sorry hun, but this article is nothing but excuses for you and why you don’t want to be with fat, fem, white, HIV+, and Asians.

    You telling these people to get over it, which they do, don’t change the fact of what kind of person you are. #sorryboutit

    • alton
      NYCforEVER | April 11th, 2014

      No disrespect, Cajiva, but why does Ocky (or anyone for that matter) have to be “some kind of person” for not having a particular type of person(s) in their dating range. Everyone has their likes/dislikes. I feel like the article is just explaining this fact. It’s true, why should anyone care that someone doesn’t find them (or their stats) attractive, sexually or otherwise? There’s someone out there for everyone, just some of us (myself included) have to search a little longer and harder before we find him. Hell, Im STILL “searchin'” after damn near 7yrs. I’m particular/kinda picky and don’t put up with a lot of shit, and a lot of peepz are particular/picky and dont find me attractive and wont put up with my shit. Way of the world.

    • Ocky Williams | April 12th, 2014

      LOL sorry Cajiva but I’ve dated and prefer to date heavier men and have no problem dating outside my race and have. I even wrote posts about it. #FAIL

  7. Dre G | April 12th, 2014

    People are taking social media way too serious.

  8. john McVirgo | July 27th, 2014

    This is the most intelligent, honest article I’ve ever come across about sexual preference on dating sites.

    Sexual orientation isn’t just about gender, it also involves race, body size, personality etc.

  9. Charles | January 6th, 2016

    Am I a little hurt when someone isn’t interested in me? Yes. But I get over it pretty quickly. I don’t find fat people attractive, I don’t find super fem guys attractive, I don’t find older men attractive, and I typically don’t find asian men attractive. It’s something Ive never apologized for, if I don’t find you attractive no amount of nagging about me being “discriminatory” against certain types of people is going to change that.

    That being said I don’t do the “No Fem” or ‘No Fat” tags because it inevitably makes you sound like a jerk. Sounding like a jerk turns people off and limits the number of guys who approach me. I tend to either not respond to messages, say I don’t do hookups, or block them if I am not interested.

    On apps like Grindr or Tinder I have a very specific agenda: Have sex with guys I find attractive that have no STDs (basically NSA while preventing the possibility of health complications through the use of protection and partner screening methods), go on dates with exciting new guys that can enrich my life, and find someone I would be happy marrying.

    When it all boils down to it those goals require me to be attracted to that person and for them to meet some requirements. You either meet them or you don’t. If they don’t its not happening between us.

  10. DKM | January 9th, 2016

    I think this is one of the more thoughtful arguments in this “preference” debate that I have read from either side.

    One of the best books I have ever read is called “Blind Spot: The Hidden Biases of Good People”. It was written by the creators of the Implicit Association Test, a test which measures the subconscious biases that every person alive has regarding race, age, gender, attractiveness, sexual orientation and pretty much everything else under the sun.

    The best thing about the book is that it constantly reminds us that we are GOOD PEOPLE even though we all have biases (or preferences) of some kind or another.

    The caution is that these preferences do not exist in a vacuum.

    For example, there is an IAT that measures attractiveness. Most people that take the test (white, black, latino, asian, etc.) have a preference for white or Euro-centric faces. By an astonishgly large degree, most people that take that particular IAT get a result which indicates that they find white people to be more attractive than persons of color.

    What becomes alarming is that these subconscious biases lead to other subconscious biases, biases that are a little more harmful — such as believing that persons of color are dangerous (there’s an IAT that tests this), or that they are not as intelligent, hard-working or even deserving of medical attention as non-persons of color. It can (and sadly, has) extend to preferring or not being attracted to the idea of having people of color live in the same neighborhood as you or go to the same school as you or your children.

    It’s truly fascinating stuff when you look at it in its entirety.

    I agree with you that for the sake of these websites (Grindr, Adam4Adam, etc.), where more often than not the objective is just a quick fix to satisfy sexual hunger, we cannot become too emotionally invested in the words of someone’s profile. It’s crazy making to attach your self-worth to the caprices of others. However, in the larger scheme of things, I think it does give us pause to consider how deeply those cited preferences lay, as they do not limit themselves to the bedroom.

    Unless we shine light on these Blind Spots of ourselves (and we are all good people trying to do the best we can), we will continue to operate in the dark.

    Thank you for continuing the conversation. Happy New Year.

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